Humans created God.

I'm an atheist who doesn't believe in religions of singular Gods like Christianity or Islam, but rather I believe in the power of human consciousness to create deities.

In other words, my opinion is that God was created by HUMAN minds, not the other way around like it has been thought for so many years.

1) I believe in Higher Powers created by human consciousness. As many people on ATS have said regarding 2012 and the film that will cause many people to believe in the end of the world - a collective belief will invoke truth into the world. A collective belief that will BRING TO LIFE the end of the world.

In other words, if we all get together, connect hands and GENUINELY believe in a phenomenon or occurance, and we give it our entire devotion and consciousness, we can cause it to become truth. We can CREATE a God. In other words, Christians created a God through eons and eons of devoted belief and worship, and not vice versa.

The Amish community. Jewish. Catholic. Mormon. Non-denominational. Heck, even agnostic. The combined beliefs of a SINGULAR GOD, throughout centuries and centuries of Western civilization, will no doubt give rise to a God that fits many of the visualizations of the worshippers.

It is why when people describe angels or heaven or God, they see the same thing: "Tunnels of light", "loved ones waiting", "a fatherly man"... because these combined beliefs have created a reality that fits into the accounts of all the believers.

2) Hence, God did NOT create the world, but vice versa. (feel free to argue if you wish) At the same time, think about it. If there were no (or few) humans, i.e. 65 millions years ago, when the dinosaurs ruled, and Christianity wasn't present, or at least, wasn't as important as SURVIVAL, would there still have been a God?

No. Because the concept of a God, itself, wouldn't have been borne yet. There would not have been any churches. There would not be stained glass. There would not be crosses. There would not be the notion of "hell", or "Adam and Eve", or "sin", or the infamous "apple". These are all borne WITH the civilization of Man. And since we know genus homo sapiens to have existed BEFORE the dawn of civilized human culture, thus, God did not create Man.

3) It is unfortunate that Christians don't believe that, because humans like to "give reason" to everything - there's a psychological term for this behavior - and thus came up with the idea of Creation to establish an order, for example, The Great Chain of Being in 1600s, which established the order of existence as:

GOD
ANGEL
MAN
BEAST

It's a way of "classification", and "category" that we all experience on a day to day basis. it's a way for pompous humans to say "Hey, I'm better than an animal, but if I sin I'm no better. God created me with INTELLIGENCE higher than animals, so i gotta strive not to fall to that bestial level."

It's more sociological than it is fact. It's the phenomenon where humans like to "feel special" - like they're being WATCHED by God, and being His Child, where he can save you and help you as you pray for him.

It's all peachy and makes people feel good and inspired. Granted, yes, but ultimately, that still isn't a matter of fact.

These three points strongly reinforce my belief in the lack of a singular God or all-powerful deity. It's just how evolution works, and how luck and chance works, that humans became sentient with thought. Primates were lucky, folks. They had joints and limbs that are dextrous and useable (no OTHER animal has that. Think about it and you'll realize so.) and thus allowed them to survive and evolve longer than most other species.

And for those of you who vehemently try to reconcile the two, like "God created evolution", please go back and read your Bible. Taking the words out of contexts seems like a poor way to try to defend the new discoveries in human mental biology.

Feel free to voice your opinions.

[edit on 20-6-2009 by KarlG]

Well - there is huge universe around us, and it predates a little appearence of first Human. Some event created it. It did not exist before. So there was force capable of creating universe (that would be capable to create us) long before our minds were capable of thinking about deities and such.
This universe in not balanced (easier to destroy then create for example) and its existence is against laws of thermodynamics that actually govern its "behaviour".
So while of course there is nothing that can prove existence of God, there will be nothing that could disprove it. Logic, science are not good enough.

reply to post by KarlG


Here's a good starting-point: "Does God believe in atheists?" by John Blanchard. That's not points-scoring, it's a genuine recommendation on a powerful rebuttal of your (very well-written) OP.

It's more sociological than it is fact. It's the phenomenon where humans like to "feel special" - like they're being WATCHED by God, and being His Child, where he can save you and help you as you pray for him.

It's all peachy and makes people feel good and inspired.

Are you kidding? The most obvious sociological fact constituting a human universal is: man will do everything in his power to quench the thought his/her actions, thoughts and motives are being WATCHED by God. A being of perfect moral perfection who dreamt up the entire cosmos and placed me in it, and who requires an account if I rebel against him? Man wants to run, and run, and run. "I'll live this life how I decide - forget God".

I can tell you I wanted nothing to do with any religious mumbo-jumbo. Are you kidding? In this day and age?

Then I heard and read the accounts of a man whose birth, life and death was like no other. Foretold in exquisite detail hundreds, thousands of years beforehand. Fulfilled to the letter in every way. He claimed to be able to grant God's forgiveness. He demonstrated power over sickness from blindness from birth to deafness to atrophied limbs and foul skin-diseases. He created food in the eyes of thousands and fed them with it. He foretold the manner of his death and fulfilled the OT prophetic system of sacrifices in offering himself up to his Father so as to reconcile others to their Maker.

Some hear and walk away. I heard, studied it for three years, and believed on the basis of the evidence that the life and teaching of Christ is historical fact.

"Feel good and inspired?"

Are you kidding? I'd never felt so humbled in all my born days. My preconceptions and confident opinions had been obliterated by the life of one man. In my ignorance I had been blind. I felt like the prisoner who comes to his senses and realizes the consequences of all his actions. I was wrong.

There is a "believe and everything will be hunky-dory" message spouted by money-motivated televangelists et al. It is not the Christian message.

"If anyone would follow me he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me daily."

Deny every natural inclination that dishonors the Maker, in deed and thought? You have no idea how living this way is a battle hour-by-hour, day-by-day. People often think of prayer as some kind of yoga inner-peace device. It's more like a struggling swimmer shouting for help. Christ sweat drops of blood. Look it up in medical literature: it happens only under the most extreme stress a human can endure. He was praying at the time.

As to "where he can save you". You have no idea what you are referring to, my friend. No idea.

Google Video Link

It's more sociological than it is fact. It's the phenomenon where humans like to "feel special" - like they're being WATCHED by God, and being His Child, where he can save you and help you as you pray for him.

No no no. You're totally wrong. God is not against you, but you are against God. If you ask for forgiveness and repent for your deeds it shall be forgiven you in the name of Jesus Christ.

I tell you the truth.

The Anti-Christ is on his way, and you will surely follow him since he will show off. His name is Maitreya. You'll do well to remember that so when he arrives in a UFO and what not, you will know he is not the right guy.

Is that fantastical to you? Welcome to the End of Times.

[edit on 6/20/2009 by watchtheashes]

I hope the matter will not disolve due to my input, but I find the premise put forth to be conflicted and due to this, will not resolve or enlighten anyone wishing to follow the mindset being offered.

As an OVERT Christian with NO RELIGOUS affilations, I will clearly state here, the idea being put forth is in contradiction to every culture on this planet. There are many means to utilize to verify this, if one is only willing to seek these out. The Premise is Wrong.

If one wishes to expand on this, I will play, but that is not the reason for this reply.

It is the Premise it'self that I would like to make a point about.

HUmans created GOD!

It's funny that in a civilized and enlightened world where political correctness rules and governs the thoughts of the populations, we have those who would choose to slander or dismiss one spiritual beliefs and to make a point, argue against themselves in the Heading or Title.

HUmans created GOD, is the problem. Words mean something, and just incase one wishes to understand just how meanings are hidden, here is a prime example.

You can go out and pickup a Strong's Concordance. If you have one, you can see that one word just does not seem to appear anywhere in the KJV 1611 Bible. (The Strong's Concordance was created based on the 1611 Version alone).

HUman.

IT's never used. Man, Male and Female, and then Adam open the Genesis Account and remains steady through Revelations.

So we have a word, which is "Created" from two older primes. HU MAN

I am certain all understand MAN and his Origins both Pre-Recreation and After. Biblically, it is quite clear about both ages, with hints of what is coming in the near future, so I will leave this for now.

As for HU, (and this is the funny part) we have an anceint word being used, which has some relevance, to those who are relatives of the Khans and the Huns and involved whole regions of the Middle East, Far East and around the Black Seas.

The First Charater in this Pedigree or Family Tree is of course HU.

And here's the Ironic Part.

HU means "Son of Heaven". His Origin is from a Woman and one you seek to dismiss as a fabrication, yet you embrace none the less.

freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com...

You can follow this Family tree through the page provided.

And here, in ATS, you can review some material as well.

So we have an ancestory going back to Hu 'Son of Heaven' as this last noted link indicates.

freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com...

This shows Hu, is the beginging of this pedigree, and it predates 1800 BC and ends.

So I wonder what can be found googling Hu 'Son of Heaven'?

Not very much, is evidence in many areas to review. We can, be brought back to the Five Hu, the Nomadic Warrior like Non Chinese peoples/tribes causing problems for the Han Dynasty in and around 300 AD., where we started with the Khans in the first place.

Wiki again has a link, as follows en.wikipedia.org...

It gives accounts of the Hu, and confirms their nature and tendancies. It also defines them again, in the Regions of the Steppes and the Black Sea and Eastern Hu is refered to several times. They did live West of China, so this region is quite easy to locate.

and

Hello

I got side tracked this last while. I was bothered by how the End of a Line came to a conclusion, without much information, when we looked at what details Other's could offer about Cain.

For some silly reason, I had believed Khan = Cain, as in Tubal Cain, was just a different application of Cain and that this was implying Genghis and Kublai were decendants of Cain.

We looked and could Identify them as not being Chinese, and where extremely adept as warriors and at the weapons crafts. They inhabited a region around the Black Sea and the Steppes region. Frequently Warred, but where a mainly Nomadic Peoples, with no specific dwelling place. I found several had long Blonde hair, according to the texts previously offered.

They Warred North, South, East and West, and whenever their habitation place is refered to, it is the edge of the world, or unkown regions. When these peoples hit their most influencial periods of their rich history, they encompassed more of the Globe than many of our Western Leaders of History.

A Family rich in glorious deeds, mighty men, men of renown.

Going from the name premise, we started with Genghis and Kublai, and tried to see where we would end, and it was Sort of depressing ending with to details only. Chungvi, ruled the Huns around 1800 BC, and he was decendant of Hu, 'Son of Heaven'

Reviewing what I could locate, I came across some supporting evidence, to confirm the Chinese opinons of the Wei Hu, or Hu, but ran across a difference in the Name as an original. See the Following

www.gateserver.net...

Huns

Many historians consider the '''Huns''' (meaning "person" in Mongolian language) the first Mongolian and Turkic peoples|Turkic people mentioned in European history. They originated from lands between modern day Siberia and Korea, then migrated progressively westward. References in Chinese sources to peoples called the Xiong-Nu (Hsiung-nu) go back to 1200 BC. Their Xiong (匈) rulers, first mentioned as a family in 1766 BC in the story of Chunwei and the fall of the Xia dynasty, may be the ancestors of the later, better-known (to western scholars) Huns, though not all scholars agree. Korean legend takes the stand that an alliance of northern Altaic tribes under a "Huan" ruler from 7193 BC pre-dated the establishment of China.

Huan established rule of the Altaic tribes in 7193 BC

and

Hello Again

I am not intenting to spend much time on this, but Wikipedia have a Section for the Wu Hu, (Five Hu) that I found interesting. See the following

en.wikipedia.org...

Han definition for Xiongnu

Traditional historians interpreted Hu as barbarians; some further stretched this obsolete analogy to equate Hu with the Xiongnu. Others objected to such similarities, stating that Wu Hu were substantially civilized before the turmoil of the Western Jin Dynasty.

Xiongnu was in fact the most powerful non-Chinese ethnic group neighboring the Chinese Han Dynasty therefore the Han simply referred to them as the Hu (the non-Chinese or the barbarian). Both terms were used concurrently. Nevertheless, Hu later became the collective term for non-Chinese ethnic groups and was often preceded by Chinese numerals and characters such as Wu (five) and Zhu (numerous). A diplomatic message in Han Shu defined Hu as the proud son of heaven (天之驕子) (Chapter 94).

I just thought that was curious. Not only is Hu 'Son of Heaven', but he carries the trait of Cain's forefather, PRIDE.

This was within the following ATS Topic www.abovetopsecret.com...

SO if someone wishes to argue that HU(A son of Heaven)MAN created GOD, who created the Heaven from where HU(A son of Heaven)MAN came from, then go at it. Good luck to you. Be the proud atheist you wish to be, while embracing the ideals you stand apposed to.

Ciao

Shane

The biggest joke is that Christianity believes in the "only begotten son" of the Creator of the entire, infinite, incomprehensible universe who just so happens to have been born on a planet in the DARK (with emphasis on "dark" in the case of Earth) outer rim hinterlands of a nondescript galaxy (among infinite galaxies). What are the REAL chances of that being true? And ONLY in a genuine DARK Hell paradigm or planet would a name that means "light bringer" (Lucifer) actually, somehow have a BAD connotation among billions of primarily Christians ("Christ stains") and Muslims (not that I believe in the Lucifer crap either). Mere words can never express what a psychotic zoo this place is. It's mainly because beliefs are valued over facts. Silly, stupid humans (or most).

reply to post by KarlG



Well it seems to me that if someone doesn't believe in God, they must have a philisophical "safe zone", if you will. Like, in order for an atheist to "feel special", they may have the belief that they are God, which, in turn, would allow them to look down on other's who "haven't figured it out".
That is how they achieve their safe zone, maybe.

Seems like the same phenomenon being exhibited, just in different words.

I got a message from the Eternal Me that created all of you and all of this out if it's imagination for the simple fact that it was tired of being alone for so long, and it's this.

I'm sorry,
But you're welcome.

Did we all create each other through our Eternal Selves? Or was that a message passed through a higher plane even still?

Could it just be that my physical vessel is some form of reflection of my Eternal Self, and, that my Eternal Self is actually just a fraction of the power and possibility of that which we refer to as God?

The Story of Jesus is one of those misrepresentations that will haunt humanity until the last Man/Woman.

We don't know what happened exactly. All we have is hearsay, and therefore, those who chose to call themselves Christian put faith into that hearsay and to them, it becomes fact.

I'm not a Christian. I have nothing against those who call themselves Christian.

But why stop there? I have nothing against any specific PERSON of any "Faith", but rather the Institutions that conditioned those people.

Personally, I don't think God really cares how you go about your life.

And this is off subject, but with all the power people grant deities, they sure do limit their abilities when it comes to certain things.

Like for instance abortion. This is hypothetical; but lets say that someone is to be born. They are going to change the world one day, but OOPS, they get aborted.

Do you really think, that if the entity we give the name GOD, wants someone born, that an abortion is going to stop that birth?
It (God), could simply will the necessary engine (what we think of as a spirit) to another acceptible vessel (body) and Boom. There you have it, the saviour of humanity got to be alive after all.

As for the Mary Virgin Birth thing.... If that is not one of the biggest lies to be shoved down our throats. Yeah, VIRGIN.
Lemme tell ya something, Jesus must have come back as a Shark, cause there have been reported cases of Certain Marine life having immaculate conceptions!

But like I said, that story, like a lot of ancient history, is third-person is hearsay; misquoted, mistranslated, passed down and twisted over so long. Not saying that certain things didn't have the POSSIBILITY of happening, but rather implying that the nature of their actual occurances are lost in time.

Don't try to sway me with that "But the Bible says..." BS either. We all know what the Bible says, you people quote it all the dang time.

And speaking of the Bible. Is there anything in there you can take literally line by line, word by word, and make any ACTUAL sense out of?

"But the Word of God speaks to those who seek it!"
or
"The Bible is Inspired by God!"

Well good, then I'll just seek it some other place thank you...
And if Someone suddenly today were TRULY INSPIRED BY GOD TO ADD ANOTHER BOOK TO THE BIBLE, People would call him/her mental and have her/him institutionalized.

I like to think that "God" has shown me something that only I can truly appreciate, because only I understand what it is that It has shown me.

That this life that we live now, this existance, this world we take for granted, THIS IS THE GIFT!

We are living in heaven right now, but it's too bad there are so many more people turning it into Hell.

"I'm Sorry, but you're welcome."

Does that make sense at all to any of you?

Did it ever occur to any of you that you may live more than once, hence the reference to ETERNAL LIFE?

TO have Eternal life, is it not possible that you must Die repeatedly.

Except for the accumulation of wisdom, would you really want to life the SAME life forever? (granted some of us may not have a choice there har har)

Anyway, I forget what the OP was about... oh right.

The idea that Man created god...

How about this. The very moment conciousness first realized it's self, is the instant God realized that it Was.

ACK! NO MORE ROOM! NEXT POST

We are all God, separated and scattered, to experience, and interact, and realize.

This is all a big game that we play with ourselves to make ourselves forget, because if we all really truly remembered...

Well lets just say I get a strange feeling in my gut when I consider that possibility.

So. Everyone. I'm sorry. I'm sorry for not answering all your prayers, or helping you every time you needed it... I'm sorry for the Central Bank, and for the deception that your governments have been feeding you from birth. I'm sorry for your own selfishness and irrational at times behaviour.

But, you're welcome for every single glorious trippy bit of it.

Peace on;
"God"

We created God, but not in the way you describe. Man created God so that he could keep his fellows down and feel good about it. God is the brainchild of the superstitious and the power-hungry. He doesn't exist within us, because he doesn't exist.

Originally posted by A Anarchist
We created God, but not in the way you describe. Man created God so that he could keep his fellows down and feel good about it. God is the brainchild of the superstitious and the power-hungry. He doesn't exist within us, because he doesn't exist.

OK, firstly, I don't know why there's so much discussion about the origin of the word "HU" in Human.

Let's make this clear.

I'm not saying God doesn't exist.

I'm saying God exists, CREATED by human minds. Human minds that believe in Him throughout the ages, have given weight to an entity that is God-like and all-powerful. There is nothing as powerful as the human mind, IMO, and with the amount of belief that goes through in eons it should manifest in the form of the God everyone believes in.

Because before Man-humans-homo sapiens-whateveryouwanttocallus existed, there wasn't a God to hang around the early bacterial forms or dinosaurs or creatures. Hence, the idea of Creation is not factual. Rather, humans-Man-homosapiens "created" God in the sense they put energy into such a belief and gave such a being power and strength.

It's just like how you say "Don't believe in or fear the Devil - it will give him strength. Believe in The Lord."

It's just like how other ATS-ers say "Conscious minds that believe in the end of the world in 2012 will give that belief weight, resulting in REAL occurances of doomsday events."

To Shane:

I have NO Idea what your post is trying to get at. Why do I need to know the history of the WORD "HU"-"Man"? What I am trying to say has more to do with brainpower and will, not word genealogy.

If I read the last sentence of your post, Shane, maybe I should change the title of this post to "MAN created God"? What's the difference? I'm talking about the THING, not what general people USE to CALL that thing. How about "homo sapiens created God?"? "Civilization created God"? You are trying to ARGUE with my words, not with my theory. The Premise, for you, is that I established "HUmans" as being apart from God when the word was coined as "Sons of Heaven". But that is NOT my premise!

To heyo:

Rest assured I do not "look down" on Christians. It is NOT a safe zone for me. It would really be horrible, if I found solace and pleasure in "feeling special" in looking down on people "who have not figured it out".

Rather, i take pleasure and solace in sports, in books, in myself, in love from my family and friends, in KNOWING that I, and ONLY I, have what it takes to get through the tough times. Indeed, some Christians I have met I have frowned upon, because they turn to the notion of God for EVERYTHING, such as, "My husband's not a Christian; that's why he lost his job" and "I wish I prayed harder, so my husband wouldn't have divorced me" and "What should I do, God? Should I stay or should I go?"

I indeed do find issue with these people, but not to the point where I "feel special" or let it be a "safe zone". Why would I do that? It's too degrading for ALL Christians, because not everyone is like that. It's degrading for ME, if I were such a sociopath.

But rather, i would like seeing that people are able to rely on THEMSELVES, and not in a higher force, should it exist or not, in making decisions, salvaging relationships and remaining employed. Such a belief is VERY unhealthy, because it takes responsibility off of the REAL, EXISTING people.

Trust me, i would know, because in my direct family there is a person who blames God for everything bad in his life, and thanks God for everything good. It's very... difficult, you see, to accept such behavior. Moderate belief is fine. But THESE CHRISTIANS are finding "safe zones" in their belief. Not me. I'm not finding a safe zone in this issue.

Which leads me to my next point: It's STILL not what I'm trying to discuss!

I'm trying to say COLLECTIVE belief has led to the creation of a God entity, an entity which didn't exist before civilization, because the combined strength of these devotions have forced a singular being INTO EXISTENCE, perhaps in another plane where the will of humans is very strong.

It's like many people believing in a spirit that haunts a house - when the spirit didn't exist before - and soon investigators find that there suddenly IS a spirit in the house matching the description, actions and history of that which they had told to the general public. This public belief has birthed the spirit out of their imaginations and minds.

Such is what I think happened/is happening for "God".

Meaning, He exists now, but only as a direct consequence of the misplaced belief which could have been directed toward alien entities in the ancient days but has lasted till modern periods.

If MORE people start getting baptised, and becoming "born-again Christians", this God will grow in strength and power. It's just as if more people believing in the Antichrist, or in 2012, so will the "Antichrist" being and the phenomenon of 2012 get stronger.

To watchtheashes:

WHAT are you saying? Goodness.

I am AGAINST God?

I will NOT ask for forgiveness, because only I can forgive MYSELF. I will NOT repent for my deeds because I have done nothing that hurts no one, I am true to myself, and I am a very decent person. The idea of "repentence" as A Anarchist has said, is to keep you down, feel ASHAMED of yourself, and let the people in power in your religion have control over you.

Who might these "people in power" be?

Think about it.

The Anti-Christ, likewise, will not come into being UNTIL the general public start giving it weight, by being sad, depressed, horrible about it. We shall wait to see if the Antichrist arrives, otherwise, to, apparently, destroy the world as we know it.

As I see it, the world's already on a downhill slope. In which case the Antichrist has already come AND gone, with your belief.

reply to post by KarlG


Hey well that's good for you. Asa christian, i'm not one who says "I blame God" or whatever. I blame myself for anything wrong, and give myself credit for the right things that go on in my life.
However, the circumstances of such good and bad things, when I step back and take a look, make it hard for me to think there isn't some force out there that give one's life a little gas once in awhile.

example: (this stuff happens a lot)

over the course of the last year, I've had 7 dollars an hour taken off my wages, while prices for food and rent have risen or stayed the same. I'm an apprentice carpenter, and I work hard, but I've watched this lowered hourly wage (it's hit everyone the same) combined with 20%ish less hours available turn into me into being financially strapped. I would take advances on the 15th of the month check to pay for food and rent, then live off the middle of the month check on which i have no bills. All well and good, and i was catching up nicely, until the boss started charging 30% on all advances. I take a couple hundred bucks and gotta pay back like 280. no way, unsustainable.
I was forced to break my lease and move in with my dad in another small town (I don't take social handouts. period.never been on ui or anything like it).
The second day i looked for a job. after looking all day in town and in the surrounding towns I came home dejected. Went out for a smoke. Heard a skihl saw. Walked around a bend and there was a foundation they were starting. boom, job. There are almost no houses going up in this small city, and there's one fulltime framing crew of three people and i just so happened to luck out and be on it.

I'm not out to prove religion with that example, but to show how circumstances can shange on a dime with no control over them. I seem to have a lot more good luck than bad, if you want to put it that way. And the good luck seems to correspond when i'm, if you will, "feel spiritual".

Anyways, just some food for thought. I believe and respect everyone's decisions in their own lives, just as i'm sure you do.

There many different types of God. People have always worship the sun you know man didn't create that. The same goes for the worship of heavenly bodies.

"A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion."- Sir Francis Bacon. (Great last name.)

People bring simple concepts of God because it is impossible to perceive Him. For me God is the ultimate perceiver of our infinite consciousness, or the infinite mind. Why can't we make a table soft and a pillow hard? Who or what sets these rules of nature? God to some people can simply be nature, to others the one setting reality. To some it's a bearded man in the clouds, to others a black rock. Whatever it may be it, whatever the story of someones particular God, it always comes back to the one who sets our rules of reality.

I agree to a certain extent with one of the OP's comments here....

Man created the idea of "God"...

We created something back then to explain the goings on in the world that we couldn't explain. "What makes the sun rise?"
"Why, God does..."

Whereas, I totally believe that there was this man, this guy called Jesus, who went around, doing truely great things. Helping the sick, the poor and the old. I think you really have to look at God as more of a whole belief system that you can take parts of and use them instead of believing right down to the very last detail of what 'he' is (and don't even get me started on God being a man, I just find it a tad of a coincidence that back then it was the us, the guys with all the power and all of sudden, there's god, in OUR image... anyone find that strange? why is the great god of creation, not a female in Christianity?).

Also, just because I believe there was a guy named Jesus, doesn't mean I believe some of the miricles he done. They might've been slightly exaggerated like chinese whispers.

Good thread, I'd like to see what other people have to say and I don't mind if anyone does believe in God/s. Because that's their beliefs

I respect that

I believe that many participaters in this thread misunderstand the OP. He(?) do not say that God is not real, he is saying that God IS real, but created by Man in a "Summoned" way- kind of the way you summon an Entity with the aid of a Quijaboard, if you will.

Ah... my bad... thanks Nightchild

Originally posted by TheSecretTruth
I totally believe that there was this man, this guy called Jesus, who went around, doing truely great things. Helping the sick, the poor and the old.

the actual idea of jesus wasn't "thought up" it has acctualy been prooven that he existed. And i totally agree... alot of his miricles had to be like chinese wispers.

but according to a famous mathmatition jesus was born in 6 B.C. and he couldnt have be born around christmas time because of the sherperds, they were in there field at night watching the flock. the would have only been in there fields in lambing season, in otherwords mid april.

reply to post by chris3340


Yeah, that should've occured to me, my mates a farmer

Originally posted by KarlG
......maybe I should change the title of this post to "MAN created God"? What's the difference?

That would be a good start.

And the difference is, MEANINGS.

Your intent is clear. It's the Bee Cult mindset, as your collective/hive responses are noting.

I'm trying to say COLLECTIVE belief has led to the creation of a God entity, an entity which didn't exist before civilization, because the combined strength of these devotions have forced a singular being INTO EXISTENCE, perhaps in another plane where the will of humans is very strong.

I do understand what you have implied, but would argue this is not the case. I can offer you, and any who would wish to review, pages of links to Ancient Lore and Traditions which are testify to one thing. An Ultimate Supreme Being/Entity Chrsitans refer to as God. Jews call him Yahweh, and Muslims call him Allah. The Dogan, Aborigines, as well as most Pagan Cults (no offense to the Pagans) realize and understand of an Ultimate "Father Figure" type. Satan and the Fallen as well, will verify GOD (for lack of a better term) created all and this is long before UPRIGHT MAN, as we are today, was introduced in the Genesis Recreation account outline in the Bible for example. What you are not considering is this same story is a Global Story coming from seperate sources with little to no mutual communication between eachother.

Christians did not "Makeup God". The Israel did not "Makeup God". Ishmael did not "Makeup God". GOD was here long before Adam was created, and man was here, created in the image of God and the Angels long before Adam was created.

Now, I will also note, not everything that claims to be a god is GOD. This is also a problem which you have not considered.

The Fallen, led by Satan rebelled and chose to live here on earth, and acted as if they where gods. Many accounts of this are clearly expressed in both written and verbal lore around the globe. Were they different from Man? Of course they were. They are supernatual in essence, so godlike performances were not out of the question. They taught Man how to work metals into Plows, swords, spears and such. They taught the Stars and the workings of astrology. They taught Man how heal with medicines (herbs and Plants). They taught many things which where amazing and indoingso also became the centeral figures of worship around the globe.

But they (the gods and dieties / Satan and the Fallen) also accept and believe in the "Father/GOD" figure.

No, from my prespective and observations, it is quite easy to see, GOD and the Angels, (if we choose to dwell specifically using these terms) predate MAN and the thoughts he has aspired to have.

You seem to be expressing this yourself in the following...

This public belief has birthed the spirit out of their imaginations and minds.

Such is what I think happened/is happening for "God".

Meaning, He exists now, but only as a direct consequence of the misplaced belief which could have been directed toward alien entities in the ancient days but has lasted till modern periods.

Here you have chosen an alternative term I am quite comfortable with. Aliens are what? Supernatural Entities which where here long before Man in either carnation (The Sixth Day or the day of Adam's Creation).

What do they do today? The samething which is expressed Biblically. The First Book of Moses has yet another "Tale" which again is in nearly each and every culture around this planet. Aliens today, are doing nothing more than what they did in the Days of Noah! It is the same motive. It is the same goal! The consequences will not be the same, but the end result will be. Here someone could call them The Fallen, and someone could call them Aliens. They are still the same.

I did find this a little funny, in a sad manner.

If MORE people start getting baptised, and becoming "born-again Christians", this God will grow in strength and power. It's just as if more people believing in the Antichrist, or in 2012, so will the "Antichrist" being and the phenomenon of 2012 get stronger.

You seem to suggest GOD is limited only to the amount of followers he has.

Let's See.

Lot comes to mind. He was the ONLY MAN (with his wife and two daughters) in the entire population of both Sodom and Gommorah that was Just. With you premise, Satan and the Abominations commited in these population centers would still be bending like Beckman today. 4 souls alone where found there, and there is still little evidence these places ever polluted the globe with their fornications to this day.

Let's See

Noah comes to mind. The ONLY PURE PEDIGREE back to Adam in the region he inhabited. Every other family bloodline was infected with Spawn of Satan and the Fallen, (which you refer to as aliens). Again, with your premise, Satan and his offspring should have still been here today, but with only 8 (eight) Souls, the filth commited by the Fallen was wiped clean from the earth, or at least the region Noah inhabited. Now, some say this is a story, but this story is Global and you can find the same basic tale in most Ancient cultures today. Again, Cultures that had little to do with each other in means of commincating and such.

But I will acknowledge, the problem seen in Noah's day IS OCCURING AGAIN TODAY, which makes these days exciting days to live in.

You might say why, but your response to watchtheashes touches on it.

The idea of "repentence" as A Anarchist has said, is to keep you down, feel ASHAMED of yourself, and let the people in power in your religion have control over you.

Who might these "people in power" be?

Think about it.

Yes, and I ask you the Same. THINK ABOUT IT.

I am a Christian my friend, but religion has nothing to do with my life. The Anarchist is correct in his "Manipulation Motives" expressed. This is the problem with RELIGION.

RELIGION is a set of doctrines and theologies created and constructed solely by MAN.

And this is where my difficulty truthfully lies with your premise.

MAN creates RELIGION. This is a 100% correctly stated remark.

Now, I do study the KJV 1611 Bible. I do utilize a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance as a Study Tool, since it was created for one, such as me who does not have a complete knowledge of both Chaldean/Hebrew and Greek. I read other works outside of the "1611" Bible as well.

But I take, with a grain of salt, anything a Cult leader has to say, when twisting a scripture taken out of context is used to validate some point or thought process of the particular sect he wishes to represent. (Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Pentecostal, and the list goes on and on).

There is a Devinely Inspired Text, which has been polluted to some extent with desired intent, and the tool to see these manipulations. I have noted them both above and offer links to them here.

Strong's Online Concordance
www.eliyah.com...

KJV 1611 Bible with ALL Letters of Introduction no longer offered in ANY NEW AGE Bible
www.jesus-is-lord.com...

Throw the religion away, and study.

I did not get this, so I am asking for some clarification.

The Anti-Christ, likewise, will not come into being UNTIL the general public start giving it weight, by being sad, depressed, horrible about it. We shall wait to see if the Antichrist arrives, otherwise, to, apparently, destroy the world as we know it.

If I am not mistaken, the Antichrist, (which again MEANS SOMETHING) has no intent to Destroy the World as we know it. This is his creation. Why would he wish it to fall?

The Antichrist is two words again. Anti in the Greek is from "Instead of" so he'll be "acting" like Christ.

But let me know what you meant here.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Nightchild
I believe that many participaters in this thread misunderstand the OP. He(?) do not say that God is not real, he is saying that God IS real, but created by Man in a "Summoned" way- kind of the way you summon an Entity with the aid of a Quijaboard, if you will.

YAY! JOY!

Nightchild, YOU GOT IT!

Thank goodness!

Yes, I AM saying God does exist, to a certain extent, but only because human devotion and worship has conjured him out into existence. Although at the same time, I'm saying ideas like Creation aren't rooted in fact (politically-correct here) because back in the very old days, Man did not exist and so the notion of God did not either.

P.S. Yeah, I'm a 'he'.

[edit on 21-6-2009 by KarlG]