Are the soldiers who protect America bad?

"If you are a Christian one of the commandments said, "thou shalt not kill".
Period, no if ands or buts and it's the shortest and most direct of all the "commandments".

You need to do a little research. The Hebrews had many words for "kill" and the one used in the famous commandment is a very specific type of murder. Look it up. I'd also like to know why, if what you say is true and killing is never right, that Yahweh, the war god of the Israelites, commanded them to waltz around killing everything that breathed as well as destroying anything resembling any other than Abrahamic culture. Yes, Yahweh was a war god and El Elohim was the high god of a pantheon. Northern and Southern Israel had two separate gods that were later combined into the same dude as a political move to unite the two sides. They were originally polytheistic, hence Genesis 1 that actually states "In beginning gods (generic plural form) created the heavens and earth." I'm not a Christian either, partially due to the fact that I used to be and wanted to know what I believed and why so I studied (which most people refuse to do.) I think it's generally wrong to deal in black and white as in, it's always or never right to do something. The world is as gray as it gets.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
If you are a Christian one of the commandments said, "thou shalt not kill".

Period, no if ands or buts and it's the shortest and most direct of all the "commandments".

Frig, I'm not even "Christian" and I can see the logic.

There is no logic, only hypocrisy.

Yes, God said "Thou shall not kill." But God violated his own commandment when he ordered the destruction of entire cities, just to allow the Jews to have a homeland in the Middle East. Also the with the Bible, I can confirm that this same God ordered the killing of thousands of people. Isn't this hypocrisy?

You should know that Christianity is the cause of more problems and wars than anything else and IMO the Bible is always a poor tool to use to justify one’s position, especially on the issue of killing.

Killing in the name of a god, a country, a law or for any reason is wrong.No one has the right to take the life of another nor make another's life unbearable.

So explain the Salem Witch Hunts and the Crusades.

The act of war is the mass murdering of fellow human beings and I don't care or want to hear "Well their doing it" two wrongs don't make a right and if you condon war or murder of any kind you have gone over to the dark side and have sunk to the level of those who practice and condon the taking of another's life.

This is the first thing that comes to anyone’s mind when war is the issue. You mention war and visions of death, horror, destruction, pain and suffering is the only thing you see.And rightly so because these things are the reality of war.




[edit on 20-6-2009 by Eight]

[edit on 20-6-2009 by Eight]

reply to post by brackforce


Wrong. If Jesus fulfills the laws, and he does not kill people then obviously the law is to not kill people.

In fact, rather than take up evil and fight for his own defense, he refuses to become evil in himself and do such things. Even going so far as to heal the man who's ear was cut off.

Killing people = a path of death and destruction.

What is the status quo of this world? To get people to kill to save themselves. What does Jesus say? If you do things to save yourself, you actually condemn yourself because you will be walking a path of death and destruction rather than following the example.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Why are you justifying such actions? As a means of saving your own life and body. And this is the status quo for getting people to walk a path of death and destruction. Make them feel as if their lives are in danger, and in response they will take up that path. It's a deception.

You'll never live in a society that doesn't include evil things if you yourself do evil things. Your very presence would negate the society.

Originally posted by Eight
There is no logic, only hypocrisy.

Yes, God said "Thou shall not kill." But God violated his own commandment when he ordered the destruction of entire cities, just to allow the Jews to have a homeland in the Middle East. Also the with the Bible, I can confirm that this same God ordered the killing of thousands of people. Isn't this hypocrisy?

You should know that Christianity is the cause of more problems and wars than anything else and IMO the Bible is always a poor tool to use to justify one’s position, especially on the issue of killing.

Try reading 1 Samuel. God was the one who judged the people. The people of Israel wanted a king to judge them instead, and so they rejected god in favor of governments and kings. To which god replies - this is the manner in which you will be ruled, and it talks of the kings and such which basically take and take from the people.

Furthermore, the reason Jesus had to do what he did in the first place was due to the misunderstandings of the people on the laws. Thus, he fulfills them in order to bring proper understanding of things.

The reason it is said to be ok for god to do such a thing, but not for people is that god being "all knowing" would be the only one who could properly judge such a thing.

I am not a Christian, but I am a big fan of Jesus and do understand what he is saying and such. It doesn't even matter to me if he is real or not, either way he was right and spoke the truth. If not real, whoever wrote the story had the wisdom.

So explain the Salem Witch Hunts and the Crusades.

Matthew 7

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Iniquity means sin. What he is saying is look at their fruits to know if they are good or bad, not what they say. So, you would be looking at their actions.

Just because many people will do things in his name does not mean they are correct. And that is what he is saying. He says many will point out the wonderful things they have done in his name, but he will say he knows them not because the things they did were sins. Their actions were not good, and no amount of lip service changes that.

The start of that chapter starts out - judge not, yest you be judged. And that pretty much rules out your example as being a reflection of Jesus. He would tell those people - I know you not.

This is the first thing that comes to anyone’s mind when war is the issue. You mention war and visions of death, horror, destruction, pain and suffering is the only thing you see.And rightly so because these things are the reality of war.

The causes of war are as various as the causes of disputes between married couples, some of the causes for war are nationalism, imperialism, militarism and of course, lets not forget human nature. So in a way it is useless to hope that reasons for going to war, one day will be totally eliminated.

People do it out of ignorance. They believe themselves to be flesh, and so they do things which save the flesh. As they do not know the truth, they fear. And because of their fears, such as 9/11, they will support wars and the path of death and destruction in order to save that flesh. Get someone to fear for their life, make them think that is the end, and they will stop at almost nothing to save themselves.

John 3

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Know thyself. If you think you are flesh, then you do not know yourself. You think of your posessions as being "you". your indicated possession. Your body? Your flesh? Such is not you.

Don't have to be a Christian to know and understand such things, just need to seek.

reply to post by network dude


Give me one specific instance of how I am better off because of something the US military did in the past 50 years. I can give you several reasons why we are worse off because of the US military's thirst for blood and tax dollars.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
Give me one specific instance of how I am better off because of something the US military did in the past 50 years. I can give you several reasons why we are worse off because of the US military's thirst for blood and tax dollars.

Research. How much military research later became an advancement for the civilian population? A lot of medical breakthroughs come from the battlefield.

And if the military has a thrist for "blood and tax dollars", how come I'm not paid more?

Originally posted by LexTalionis

It reminds me of the general outcry against cops. When ever a video surfaces of a cop beating someone, justified or not, the softened ones cry out "Cops are evil, cops have power issues"

The next day, as that same person is pinned beneath a burning car within seconds of exploding, who will be there risking their lives to save them?

This kind of reminds me of the time my 65 year old mother was held up an gun point and my 66 year old father was beaten by some hoodlums. The cops said there was nothing they could do because they were "too busy." Later that week I got a ticket for doing a rolling stop at a stop sign. A cop was hiding behind the bushes waiting for people to come up to this stop sign and do a rolling stop. I guess the guys that mugged my parents could have been somewhere in those bushes.

Which brings us to the US army. The US war on terrorism has been an abject failure. Osama Bin Laden is still at large, the Taliban are menacingly close to taking over Afghanistan and Pakistan, and Al Qaida has more credibility in the Muslim word than it did in 2001. Why?

Because the US military was too busy playing cowboy in Iraq rather tan foccusing on the task at hand in Afghaistan. Maybe if the US military was not "too busy" in Iraq, it could have wrapped up the war on terror years ago.

reply to post by jerico65


So we need to spend $10 billion a month in Iraq for cross-over research? Could we not just directly fund this research by giving more money to agencies like the NIH?

Even though enlisted soldiers' salaries are not that high, there are people other than enlisted soldiers that profit off the military. Haliburton made a killing as a result of the Iraq war. So did many defense contractors. I live in a military town and know tons of ex-soldiers with minimal skill sets that get paid fairly well to work for defense contractors.

Originally posted by network dude
to those that think the military has done nothing to protect you since Pearl Harbor, I will tell you that every day you live in the USA without a foreign force invading your homeland, it's because of the military. It's because they feel deep down in their souls that they are protecting you. They believe that if they do their job well, then you will get to go on with your life as if nothing happened. And they don't care that you hate them.

Make no mistake. There are superheroes in this world. And they are here to protect you

Could you please point to one instance of a foreign attack on US soil that the US successfully repelled?

I am not one to say that there is zero need for a military, but the military as it exists in the US today is too big and costly. A downsized military would be more than adequate to repel any conceiveable attack on US soil.

The reason the government has fangs with an addictive taste for for blood is the same as reason the fed loves the red ink, they are entities which operate with kindred spirits. Sovereinty has always been a propagated joke only held by very few individuals. In war they find men who are easily convinced to fight for them, whereas the honest fighting men lay in waiting for a leader who will most likely not arrive in their lifetime. The god of war craves blood, but the Storm God, who commands all matter throughout the span of the universe wants order. Wise men will stand their ground at the mount and wait for their God. On that same note, the fighting men who fight for the god of war see their god as the same Storm God mentioned. The alignment of the kingdoms of earth has always mantained this same value. So the fighting men of earth maintain their honor in poverty with me, my only difference with them is I wait for the Storm God, who commands all matter and flesh, without the desire for gain, as he already has it all, having everything without nothing.

Do you remember that day? You know September 11, 2001. Wow, what an aweful day for the America. What were you doing on that day and how did you feel when you got your briefing or saw the news when you woke up that morning?

Well, I remember just fine. Can you imagine how I felt? I had been in war before and then here and there and every time I was absolutly terrified before every vacation. But that day, that day was different. That day the there was no fear, only who and where. Every man and every woman that wears that uniform, no matter if you are a Marine, Army, Air Force or Swabby, ( sorry doc, you know you deserve it) know what that feeling is and they know why they are wearing that uniform. They just know. And until you know what this feeling is you have no reason, ( you have the right ) but you have no reason to spit on they who wear the uniform. A war criminal yes, after he or she is proven guilty in a court of law but not a second before. In their mind they are wearing that uniform for you and the person next to you and the person next to them.

JUST REMEMBER PEOPLE, DON'T EVER TRY AND TELL SOMEONE HOW TO DRIVE A 911 TURBO IF YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN BEHIND THE WHEEL OF ONE. IT IS ONE OF THINGS THAT WORDS JUST CAN NOT DESCRIBE.

And if you are one of the punks that do decide to try and spit on a serviceman or woman, DO NOT LET ME SEE YOU DO IT. Let's just say I have alot invested in them!


Semper Fi,

Eye of Eagle


I

double posted sorry.

[edit on 20-6-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

Originally posted by EYEOFEAGLE
Do you remember that day? You know September 11, 2001. Wow, what an aweful day for the America. What were you doing on that day and how did you feel when you got your briefing or saw the news when you woke up that morning?

Well, I remember just fine. Can you imagine how I felt? I had been in war before and then here and there and every time I was absolutly terrified before every vacation. But that day, that day was different. That day the there was no fear, only who and where. Every man and every woman that wears that uniform, no matter if you are a Marine, Army, Air Force or Swabby, ( sorry doc, you know you deserve it) know what that feeling is and they know why they are wearing that uniform. They just know. And until you know what this feeling is you have no reason, ( you have the right ) but you have no reason to spit on they who wear the uniform. A war criminal yes, after he or she is proven guilty in a court of law but not a second before. In their mind they are wearing that uniform for you and the person next to you and the person next to them.

JUST REMEMBER PEOPLE, DON'T EVER TRY AND TELL SOMEONE HOW TO DRIVE A 911 TURBO IF YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN BEHIND THE WHEEL OF ONE. IT IS ONE OF THINGS THAT WORDS JUST CAN NOT DESCRIBE.

And if you are one of the punks that do decide to try and spit on a serviceman or woman, DO NOT LET ME SEE YOU DO IT. Let's just say I have alot invested in them!


Semper Fi,

Eye of Eagle


I

good post i completely agree. i'm willing to bet that a good portion of the the people that say all that stuff don't even know one single person in the military let alone serve in it and they form all their opionons from reading ats and other sites and watching the news.

[edit on 21-6-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

You raise an extremely valid point. Soldiers don't start wars. Leaders do.
Whether the war is started by our leaders or some other nations does not mean the Soldiers should be hated. They are just the middle guys between both sides who fight to protect their country.

The only thing I would change about the military would be that if you disagree with the war you have the chance to opt out of fighting it.

It is my personal belief that if you believe in a cause so much worth fighting a war over, you pick up a gun, mow down and slaughter as many people as you can, and show no mercy. Heck, even eat the bodies and drink the blood of the enemy if you feel so strongly about it. However, If you don't believe in the cause, opt out of fighting it.

I also believe that even unable bodies should be able to serve the military. If your a cripple, that does not mean you cannot drive a tank. Although there are certain risks involved with that, it would only give us more man power.

[edit on 21-6-2009 by atomicrockerdude]

[edit on 21-6-2009 by atomicrockerdude]

reply to post by JaxonRoberts Re: "representatives and ambassadors of the US" Are you suggesting that I can't tell the difference between fear & good manners? Re: "Never get in front of the Yanks" As I understand it from serving British soldiers, that expression has nothing to do with ferocity or tenacity, but rather indiscriminate shooting of anything that moves. Thus if one is deployed ahead of US forces, one must worry about being shot in the back by them. The point I was trying to make is that trigger pulling is not evidence of courage, whereas in many instances not taking precipitate action is much more difficult & thus may well indicate courage. More broadly, who is braver, the person who sees a threat & goes to fight, or the person who can live with the threat & seeks a negotiated solution? Imho it is simply not true that only those in uniform are brave, & thus anyone who attempts to characterise a person as cowardly for criticising military personnel is @best disingenuous.

They defend (some) of your interests, not those of you poor types thou . They are like racketeers , murderers, pimps, drug pushers, arsonists, rapists , thieves , extortionists , rogues and pickpockets serving the interests of a crimelord ' family' . Evil serving Evil .

Except for these Americans , who aren't protecting anyone .




[edit on 21-6-2009 by Drexl]

reply to post by Bunken Drum


I wasn't going to grace your rubbish with a response at first.

But believe me when I say I in no way need any kind of weapon to prove my courage or who I am and I can "slap people around" just as well as any man from wherever it is you hail from.

To address the little "don't get in front of the yanks" comment - I hit what I was aiming at over there - and it didn't include friendly forces. So take your veiled little attempts at insults elsewhere. They remind me of nothing more than sad rhetoric we are all tired of hearing over and over again.

reply to post by badmedia



To avoid derailing this thread, you or I can start a thread in the theology forum and debate this topic which is clearly about religion.

reply to post by Drexl


and I suppose you would valiantly run out into the middle of an artillery barrage?



[edit on 21-6-2009 by mf_luder]

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint


Give me one specific instance of how I am better off because of something the US military did in the past 50 years. I can give you several reasons why we are worse off because of the US military's thirst for blood and tax dollars.

Your ability to drive the car you want,eat the food you want,have a cell phone,etc. And the list can go on.

The main purpose of the Navy is to keep the sea lane open. If the Navy didn't perform this function a country could control what comes into your country and what doesn't. Think about it,there are no trains or roads that lead to China,Japan, or any other oversees country that we trade with.