Jesus' Christianity - Not Seen Today

reply to post by Jim Scott


I meant Satan. I am sure humans would be much better off minus God's flesh eating little pet.

[edit on 22-6-2009 by wylekat]

reply to post by Jim Scott


Thank you for answering my question. I don't mean to be totally offensive, but I dislike to see people trading in their individuality for a promises made by a book. It's good that you help others, and I encourage you to do more. As noticed, I have little respect for preachers whether they be christian, pagan or islamic. I want to see people who can do more than talk about how great their religion. Too me it's just like a territory contests, and most cases, it probably is.


You see, the reason I turned away from religion is many reasons. One time two years ago, shortly after my brother had come home from boot camp. My mother got me to go to church for Christmas.

The people were kind. But it seemed to be a social event for.. about half of them. The pastor, he was also a good person, but all he preached about was about how god controls everything, and that we have no worry to be "green" (enviormental wise) because things are going to go according to how god wants them to. It seemed careless to me.

The people, they were of good intent. Every body gave money for the church, but when it came to the homeless, the poor, the rest of the world? All they got were some prayers. I know they believe prayer helps, and thats their belief.. However in the words of a favorite character of mine "It's better to act as a man, than pray for a miracle of god."

So thats my little story. I can't say I give to charity, or go and volunteer at a homeless shelter. Does that make me a hypocrit? Maybe. But I believe if you're going to preach that you should do such things, you should do them yourself.

OP
My advice is that you try to re-perceive your notions of christ as an individual.. and more of a philosophy, an allegorical representation of the mental and physiological changes any human can go through to achieve spiritual adulthood.

that is.. to cease depending on external sources for your own salvation ie: yeshua etc..
and begin to look within.. literally into your own body.. and the mysteries that lie within.
unlocked through knowledge.

-

reply to post by Miraj


You got off easy. I stuck it out- and it got chewed off by Christians. I've seen 'men of God' do things that'd turn anyone white- and then they'd preach their little hearts out about how wonderful, and good, and blah blah blah about God.

If you can remember- At that church- how many nice cars were there? How many well dressed people? Jewelry? Rolex's? I can bet you $50 I can guess how many. Upper 90%. Of the remaining 10%, 5 were living well beyond their means so they'd look good in front of the others, and the other 5%, well, I've found there's ways to sweep those people 'under the rug' as it were.

Give money to the poor? How would Pastor afford his 'spensive Lexus, Caddy or other luxury car? His luxurious home? His fancy suits, wife's credit card line, his kids' nice things? How can you POSSIBLY try to deny the pastor all that- all for some grubby, dirty poor and homeless people? Ok. I'm thru being sarcastic, now.

reply to post by wylekat

I pretty much stated that christianity is based on a lie, there was under the time of krst at least 2 other who had the same name as jesus, and these men was allso krusifixed as jesus did on the same day, and further more, there was a Roman emperor , who did gahter all the masses under one book and religion to gather more power, this is the first pope, and further more in the 10 commanments it says you shall not make an image of me ?? epical fail and then too you shall not worship any one else than em?? epicalfail, 1 the humans has made jesus and the krusifixion as the image , 2. catholioc church has Idols, the saint statues are that not worshiping??? im ashamed to be a christian, but i dont beleive in a human made god too.

Originally posted by wylekat

See- I read all the pretty words in the dusty old book. I put them to the most severe test ever- When the woman I loved dearly left me for someone else. I prayed for YEARS to get her back- and watched my very life go down the abyss like a 2500lb lead cannonball thrown out of an airplane. I have had a front row seat to a woman, the FIRST woman in 20 years to actually show actual interest and feelings towards me get gravely ill and Then find out her home is being foreclosed on, due to the person responsible for payments (ex husband) just not doing it. This was DAYS after she told me how she felt. Now, we barely talk once a week.

This reminds me of a story, like a parable, that sorta fits...if you will allow me:

A certain woman lived in a house. The sheriff came up in his car and told her to get out of her house, the dam was breaking and the area was going to flood and she would die. She said "I'll be ok, the Lord will take care of me."

A couple of hours later, as water was rising to her porch, she saw the Sheriff coming in a boat. When he arrived, he asked her to please get in the boat, the water was going to rise and she was going to die. She again said, "Don't worry about me. The Lord will take care of me. You go on now."

Hours later, she was on the roof, and the Sheriff came with a helicopter to save the last few residents that wouldn't leave. She waved away the helicopter with the same words.

Later, she died. She went up to heaven and was confronting Jesus when she said: "I thought you were going to save me. I drowned!" Jesus said: "Well, you know I love you. I sent you a car, sent you a boat, and I sent you a helicopter to help you."

It's good to trust God. The answers you expect to see may not be the answers you get. God says He doesn't think like us, and His ways are not the ways of man. We try to put God in a box, as if we knew how He works, how He thinks, and how He should do things. When you think about it, really, we are nothing. It's amazing to me that God even cares about us at all....when He could snap His fingers and annihilate everything. When I consider He sent His Only Son to die for me, it blows my mind...

Here's a photo of the Earth in space, taken from the Voyager spacecraft. Next time you feel like you can judge God, or figure out His ways, etc., do like I do and look at this picture....michaeltobias.files.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by wylekat
Thing is- I KNOW abuse. What I have been put thru, or 'allowed' to be put thru by God is just that. Abuse. What you're being put thru is abuse.

All the pretty words on earth in any language mean complete and utter squat when the actions are the absolute opposite. You cannot call anything 'love' when you are beating, or trying to kill your child, and all the time saying "I'm doing this because I love you". You cant hire a bully to beat up your child and say it, either, and call it love. BECAUSE IT JUST AINT. No promise, no 'reward when I am dead' is going to make me just sit up and smile all broad- because I actually and honestly DO KNOW BETTER. I see nothing appealing about spending all eternity without a single relative, kid, or anyone else to say 'these are my (insert relation here)'. I am not going to be convinced how wonderful God is- because of what has been done to me. In fact, I'll keep lunging for the Almighty's jugular for the rest of my (un)natural life if need be for what has been done to me.

And BTW- that's about the ONLY decision I have been able to make!

I agree with you. You will not be convinced here. You will be convinced there.

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

Thank you for answering my question. I don't mean to be totally offensive, but I dislike to see people trading in their individuality for a promises made by a book. It's good that you help others, and I encourage you to do more. As noticed, I have little respect for preachers whether they be christian, pagan or islamic. I want to see people who can do more than talk about how great their religion. Too me it's just like a territory contests, and most cases, it probably is.


You see, the reason I turned away from religion is many reasons. One time two years ago, shortly after my brother had come home from boot camp. My mother got me to go to church for Christmas.

The people were kind. But it seemed to be a social event for.. about half of them. The pastor, he was also a good person, but all he preached about was about how god controls everything, and that we have no worry to be "green" (enviormental wise) because things are going to go according to how god wants them to. It seemed careless to me.

The people, they were of good intent. Every body gave money for the church, but when it came to the homeless, the poor, the rest of the world? All they got were some prayers. I know they believe prayer helps, and thats their belief.. However in the words of a favorite character of mine "It's better to act as a man, than pray for a miracle of god."

So thats my little story. I can't say I give to charity, or go and volunteer at a homeless shelter. Does that make me a hypocrit? Maybe. But I believe if you're going to preach that you should do such things, you should do them yourself.

I agree with you, and that is the very point of this thread. Christianity is not the same as what Jesus taught. You are correct. You and others like you sense that something is terribly wrong, and you are correct. It is wrong.

Originally posted by prevenge
OP
My advice is that you try to re-perceive your notions of christ as an individual.. and more of a philosophy, an allegorical representation of the mental and physiological changes any human can go through to achieve spiritual adulthood.

that is.. to cease depending on external sources for your own salvation ie: yeshua etc..
and begin to look within.. literally into your own body.. and the mysteries that lie within.
unlocked through knowledge.

-

I understand your point, but it is too late for me. I have already seen Him as a person, not a philosophy. www.carm.org...

Originally posted by wylekat
reply to post by Miraj

 

You got off easy. I stuck it out- and it got chewed off by Christians. I've seen 'men of God' do things that'd turn anyone white- and then they'd preach their little hearts out about how wonderful, and good, and blah blah blah about God.

If you can remember- At that church- how many nice cars were there? How many well dressed people? Jewelry? Rolex's? I can bet you $50 I can guess how many. Upper 90%. Of the remaining 10%, 5 were living well beyond their means so they'd look good in front of the others, and the other 5%, well, I've found there's ways to sweep those people 'under the rug' as it were.

Give money to the poor? How would Pastor afford his 'spensive Lexus, Caddy or other luxury car? His luxurious home? His fancy suits, wife's credit card line, his kids' nice things? How can you POSSIBLY try to deny the pastor all that- all for some grubby, dirty poor and homeless people? Ok. I'm thru being sarcastic, now.

Jesus had the same sort of problem in His day with the Pharisees. They had their belief in God all wrong, too. He said to watch out for their doctrine.

5 And when his disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread. 6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. 7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread. 8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread? 9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? 11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

I've heard that 5% of the congregation pay 95% of the costs of running the church, so when you are obligated to maintain services and premises, you must make sure that the 5% are satisfied. That can create a conflict of interest, causing a pastor to compromise his beliefs. Jesus did not create a religion that required premises, and costs were literally nothing, so it was originally set up to avoid the problems created by money. That fits with the theme of this thread, also. What you are observing is the change of Christianity to accommodate the contributors to the church. It was never about money. Referring to his situation, Jesus said "The Son of Man hath nowhere to lay His head." He basically worked with just the clothes on His back, and He gave those up at his death to the soldiers, as was predicted in Psalm 22. How different is Christianity today!

Originally posted by Watchdog-Finland
reply to post by wylekat

 

I pretty much stated that christianity is based on a lie, there was under the time of krst at least 2 other who had the same name as jesus, and these men was allso krusifixed as jesus did on the same day, and further more, there was a Roman emperor , who did gahter all the masses under one book and religion to gather more power, this is the first pope, and further more in the 10 commanments it says you shall not make an image of me ?? epical fail and then too you shall not worship any one else than em?? epicalfail, 1 the humans has made jesus and the krusifixion as the image , 2. catholioc church has Idols, the saint statues are that not worshiping??? im ashamed to be a christian, but i dont beleive in a human made god too.

It is no big thing for Satan to set up decoys to turn you away from Jesus.

I agree about the statues and icons, there should not be any images. However, we do have the image on the Shroud of Turin, which has been proven true.

reply to post by Jim Scott

bahahahahah I dont beleive you, nothing you can say i dont beleive, ive bnusted jesys as a myth and a hoax, your brainwashed mindless droen, think for your self, the turin shrine, is maybe real they didnt say it is

reply to post by Jim Scott


No kidding. Now... What happens to people like who have been disgusted to this point? Let's say you're right- and what I've seen is nothing like the true God. a) How come I'm being used for target practice by whatever forces? b) If God wants to convince me otherwise- why not a couple things I really need- like getting my car completely fixed up, so it can last for a few more years? A wife? Living alone has lost it's appeal the last decade or so. I don't celebrate ANY holidays. I've got no reason to. I don't even celebrate my own Bday.

Something needs to give- and I've given all I got. If God wants to convince me... I need to see positive, real things and changes in my life- made the same way the negative, insane ones were.

reply to post by wylekat


You're probably right. I can't remember all their cars, but I could tell a lot of them do pretty well. Ther were some neighbors there, they took a church van there.. Though thats because their SUV had been totaled.

I'm glad I haven't seen the worst of it, but believe me.. I know the worst exists.

It's very hard for a religious person to win my respect. and most that do I noticed are Islamic.

But like I said, I could tell at least half of them were there for the social event, especially since it was christmas time.

I could tell some of them that were in there were really into it though.. Which is good for them. I don't have a problem with their beliefs, my problem usually comes from people who exploit their beliefs and force them on others.

reply to post by Jim Scott


Its hardly prove true.

I will de bunk the shroud of turin


What happens when you cover a mans bleading forhead with a cloth? It smears.. yet the shroud of turn shows trickling blood patterns.

Originally posted by wylekat
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

No kidding. Now... What happens to people like who have been disgusted to this point? Let's say you're right- and what I've seen is nothing like the true God. a) How come I'm being used for target practice by whatever forces? b) If God wants to convince me otherwise- why not a couple things I really need- like getting my car completely fixed up, so it can last for a few more years? A wife? Living alone has lost it's appeal the last decade or so. I don't celebrate ANY holidays. I've got no reason to. I don't even celebrate my own Bday.

Something needs to give- and I've given all I got. If God wants to convince me... I need to see positive, real things and changes in my life- made the same way the negative, insane ones were.

Well, the first thing would be humility. Begin there. By gaining the humility, and putting God way up there in respect and yourself way down there at the bottom, your perspective will start off right.

Next, now that you know who you are and who He is, you will begin to have a certain element of fear of God and His power and knowledge. The fear is the beginning of your wisdom.

Next, your deeds. Look at how you live daily. Begin simply. Whenever you eat, think of the last supper. The liquid you drink, whatever it is, think "This is His blood that was shed for me." It's not His blood, it is just how to remember the incredible sacrifice. When you eat solid food, likewise, think "This is His body that was shed for me." Keep Him in mind, realizing what He has done for you. Do something for someone, like a random act of kindness. This is the prime characteristic of his disciples: they have love for one another. Try giving to someone who can't give back. Begin to feel good about this opportunity to help others, as you won't have the opportunity after this life---they won't be sick or needy there. Realize that every hair on your head is tracked by Him, or essentially there is nothing too small to talk to Him about. When you pray, wherever you are, address Him with praise and respect, feeling love, before asking for your needs and protection. As a concept, realize that God has an infinite capacity and supply to give, but He will not give in a way that will steer you wrong or hurt you beyond your ability to bear. Search for your answers in the scriptures. Ask questions, and He will answer them. Let Him guide you through the scriptures to find the answers. Think like "Why did you say that, Lord?" when reading. Avoid other literature and commentaries about the scriptures, but let Him lead you through His living word. Grow in Christ. At the appropriate time, when moved upon by the Holy Spirit, ask Jesus into your life and give it over to Him. He can be trusted with it, and He will not leave you or forsake you. Be kind to others, as you would like to be treated. Protect the environment, dress it and keep it. Protect the weak, protect women and children, seniors, the infirm. Provide a way for the weary, and rest for the workers. Keep yourself clean from the world to avoid complications, such as diseases and moral anxieties. Be sincere when you speak, and listen carefully to others when they tell you something of importance. Make the world a better place each day in some small way. Live your one life with meaning and purpose, so that you may lay your head down at the last and feel you have been true and faithful to your fellow man, to yourself, and to God.

Various tests have been performed on the shroud, yet the debates about its origin continue. Radiocarbon dating in 1988 by three independent teams of scientists yielded results published in Nature indicating that the shroud was made during the Middle Ages, approximately 1300 years after Jesus lived

Originally posted by Watchdog-Finland
Various tests have been performed on the shroud, yet the debates about its origin continue. Radiocarbon dating in 1988 by three independent teams of scientists yielded results published in Nature indicating that the shroud was made during the Middle Ages, approximately 1300 years after Jesus lived

"The radiocarbon sample was thus not part of the original cloth and is invalid for determining the age of the shroud" www.shroud.com...

Shroud of Turin dates to as old as 3000 years. www.abc.net.au...

The Sudarium, a napkin covering the face of Jesus after death, matches the Shroud of Turin, and known provenance dates to about 644 AD. www.shroudstory.com...

Acts of Thomas poem describes Shroud of Turin? First century AD. www.shroudofturin4journalists.com...

[edit on 23-6-2009 by Jim Scott]

reply to post by Jim Scott

bahahahahhaha dopes so cald scintists what made that new test are workin for the church, i dont belive it

Originally posted by Watchdog-Finland
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

bahahahahhaha dopes so cald scintists what made that new test are workin for the church, i dont belive it

Please show evidence they are scientists working for the church.