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Jesus' Christianity - Not Seen Today
page: 4share:
Originally posted by Jim Scott
1. Under Christianity, there would be no wars. You would love your enemy, bless those who use you, etc. Therefore, all wars in the name of Jesus are false.
2. There would be no condemnation or judgment to hell. Jesus Christ said He died for the sins of all mankind. He paid for your sins, full price, and you have eternal life, guaranteed. No man can take that away from you. No church doctrine can take it away.
1. I have yet to hear or read of such actually happening. No one has quoted 'In Jesus....' for matters like war. It's either 'God's' or 'Lord's'
2. You are still required 'to change' 'to repent' though. Jesus still warned about hell and evil doers going to hell. Jesus delivered the message for us to be saved not that all humans are automatically saved.
Hi/
If God was the one who instituted Kings,then would it not be that the Kings should do as God commands them to?
Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
[snip]
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. It is a way to test if you have the truth in you.
Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
His flesh is the bread, the manna from heaven, the word.
His blood is His sacrifice of His life for your sin.
You must believe His word, and you must accept His sacrifice.
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?
Christianity knows no emperor, no nation, no power other than that of God as its master.
If God was the one who instituted Kings,then would it not be that the Kings should do as God commands them to?
Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
[snip]
While we are compelled to obey the law of the land we live in, by law, we are more than free of the laws of God in that His Son has obeyed those laws on our behalf.
True, we are to obey the Law we live in.
Wrong!
He DIED on our behalf...for no human being could take DEATH away...the first people Adam and Eve....You shall surely DIE if you do eat?
For DEATH was the punishment God gave...falling away from the commandment of God...To not eat of the fruit..
We too must OBEY the Teachings of the Apostles....handed down by Christ Himself.Why else would Jesus Christ do all these things?
It does not make sense!
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
***He might as well have come and told His Apostles...'' 'listen,just want you to know, Im God,I have done all that is necessary for your salvation..just go and do whatever,All is done by me..dont worry all is good''....
why did He choose to take Flesh and become one of Us?
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Why did He choose to be scorned and beaten?
Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
[snip]
Why did He allow confession to be instituted by His Apostles?
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. It is a way to test if you have the truth in you.
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye eat the flesh of the Son of God, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you.” “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”...John 6,53,54...
Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
His flesh is the bread, the manna from heaven, the word.
His blood is His sacrifice of His life for your sin.
You must believe His word, and you must accept His sacrifice.
You mean to tell me that He said all that for the fun of it,doesn't make sense!
Also refer to John:6:27,69...Mathew:26:20_29...Mark 14,17-25.....Luke 22,14-38....and S.Paul 1 Corin 11,23-26...
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Since our disobedience requires a just and fair God to punish us for our sins, Jesus steps into our place and is punished for us because He loves us. We are not under the law, but under the free gift of forgiveness, which reconciles us to God. We can boldly go into the presence of God, as sinless as Jesus Christ, because our sin has been removed 100% by the justice of God punishing Jesus for us.
[snip]
Not that we are all SAVED by just believing in Him..
Thats not scripture.
[snip]
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?
ICXN
helen
Originally posted by Watchdog-Finland
And besides christian faith comes from Mithra and other religions what are more or less older than 2.500BC, so i don't catch up with this thread, and tell me this If there would be a God , such what the humans has created , would this planet look like this now?, NO it would not, so that is simple there is no such God as the bible says there is and the bible is human made there is nothing holy about it , the book is full of , Murder Incest and war, whats so holy about all that? nothing at all, why dont you understand this you have been lied to for the last 2000 years
Satan is an imitator. He will come as an angel of light. He will be a wolf in sheep's clothing. He is a deceiver. He will quote scripture to mix it with a lie. He will copy events, so the real event that eventually happens will mean nothing or distract from the true event. Satan was the first to plagiarize, steal ideas, and use them to mislead.
Incest and murder were not defined in the Bible until the time of Moses. It was permitted before there was a law forbidding it.
Wars are defensive and offensive. In the case of the offensive wars in Canaan following the crossing of Jordan in Exodus, annihilation of evil was necessary for the provision of good. We do the same thing today in hospitals. We kill bad bacteria so the patient will live.
reply to post by Jim Scott
Jim I'm going to let you in on a secret. I've seen many like you. You come. You claim to have knowledge. You mindlessly quote your bible verses.
Quote them all you want. But if you want to be a good person (And I suppose, a good christian too) Stop playing the role of a Pharisee. Preaching religion gets you no where.
Do you know why people ignore the preachers in the street? Because their words mean nothing. If you want your believes to mean something, for God's sakes ACT ON THEM.
I know it makes you feel good and justified on the inside, but if all you do is talk then you haven't changed a thing.
Your proof of this is in your bible. Did Jesus simply say many things and do nothing? NO, he didn't. When the Romans came for him, he went willingly. When the people wished to stone him, he stood by. When his friends tried to raise their swords to others, he stopped them.
At least in the stories, he practiced what he preached.
So I ask you, what do YOU do, to be more like Jesus?
Jim I'm going to let you in on a secret. I've seen many like you. You come. You claim to have knowledge. You mindlessly quote your bible verses.
Quote them all you want. But if you want to be a good person (And I suppose, a good christian too) Stop playing the role of a Pharisee. Preaching religion gets you no where.
Do you know why people ignore the preachers in the street? Because their words mean nothing. If you want your believes to mean something, for God's sakes ACT ON THEM.
I know it makes you feel good and justified on the inside, but if all you do is talk then you haven't changed a thing.
Your proof of this is in your bible. Did Jesus simply say many things and do nothing? NO, he didn't. When the Romans came for him, he went willingly. When the people wished to stone him, he stood by. When his friends tried to raise their swords to others, he stopped them.
At least in the stories, he practiced what he preached.
So I ask you, what do YOU do, to be more like Jesus?
Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Watchdog-Finland
I will say that the God of the old testament surely condoned war, rape, slavery. If anyone denies then.. Well they haven't read the bible. Plain and simple.
God in the Old Testament was clearing the way for his people to survive, and He did so by eliminating pagan perverted societies, as in the entry of Canaan around the time of the death of Moses. He did the same in Sodom, and in the Great Flood. He did so with Pharaoh when the Hebrews left Egypt with Moses. While death means a lot to you, it is not a big thing to God. It allows these pagan sinful perverts to see God, his love, and the purpose of salvation clearly, where they can accept Jesus and live in heaven forever. He did this for the people who died in the Great Flood, for example. I Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
By moving these evil people out of the way and saving them later, He has allowed His people to live and preserve His word. It's a win-win situation. Everyone gets eternal life.
Slavery has always been a part of the world scheme. People are indebted to others. You are a slave today. You must pay your mortgage, pay for heat, lights, etc. To do that, you are free to choose where you may get the money. The Bible created a society wherein people who are enslaved are treated more fairly.
There is no place in the Bible where rape is condoned. All incidences of condoned rape were choices of men, not God. Judges 19:24, 2 Sam 13:12, Gen 34:7. There is a payment to be made for premarital sex, also.
Deut 22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
[edit on 22-6-2009 by Jim Scott]
Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Jim Scott
Jim I'm going to let you in on a secret. I've seen many like you. You come. You claim to have knowledge. You mindlessly quote your bible verses.
Quote them all you want. But if you want to be a good person (And I suppose, a good christian too) Stop playing the role of a Pharisee. Preaching religion gets you no where.
Do you know why people ignore the preachers in the street? Because their words mean nothing. If you want your believes to mean something, for God's sakes ACT ON THEM.
I know it makes you feel good and justified on the inside, but if all you do is talk then you haven't changed a thing.
Your proof of this is in your bible. Did Jesus simply say many things and do nothing? NO, he didn't. When the Romans came for him, he went willingly. When the people wished to stone him, he stood by. When his friends tried to raise their swords to others, he stopped them.
At least in the stories, he practiced what he preached.
So I ask you, what do YOU do, to be more like Jesus?
I will let the Bible answer your questions and concerns.
If preaching gets you nowhere, please tell me what is the meaning of these verses:
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
You assume I do not act on them. You do not know what I do. My words mean nothing, and I am not important to you. I refer you to the words of God. If you wish, you will recognize me by this:
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Originally posted by ahnggk
Originally posted by Jim Scott
1. Under Christianity, there would be no wars. You would love your enemy, bless those who use you, etc. Therefore, all wars in the name of Jesus are false.
2. There would be no condemnation or judgment to hell. Jesus Christ said He died for the sins of all mankind. He paid for your sins, full price, and you have eternal life, guaranteed. No man can take that away from you. No church doctrine can take it away.
1. I have yet to hear or read of such actually happening. No one has quoted 'In Jesus....' for matters like war. It's either 'God's' or 'Lord's'
2. You are still required 'to change' 'to repent' though. Jesus still warned about hell and evil doers going to hell. Jesus delivered the message for us to be saved not that all humans are automatically saved.
Wars are not initiated by Christians, but Christians are men and women who want to defend their homes. While this is not the way of Jesus, it is impossible for man to stand idly by to witness the slaughter of his family or friends. Man is not expected to be perfect, only Jesus. Many of the guidelines given by Jesus were given to show the impossibility of being good. For example, never looking upon a woman to lust after her. Never hating someone in your heart. Jesus was saying you and I can't do it, only He could do it.
Mark 10:23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? 27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
All humans will be saved. Acts of righteousness are not needed. Believing on Jesus is needed. For example, here's a man whose hands and feet were unable to move to do any acts of righteousness:
Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
reply to post by Jim Scott
It's pointless. You're just like the rest. You're brain washed. I will be willing to bet, that you can be easily provoked into hatred because of that fact.
You've failed. I asked you a simple question.
What do you do to be more like Jesus? I meant this personally, and I expected an answer. If you can't honestly answer then I suppose the smart thing to do is ignore it.
If you want to preach, prepare to be questioned. Prepare to either ignore or deflect the hard hitting questions. Are you just a pharisee, or do you try to do what you preach?
You may feel less important.. But to me it is important. If you are such an upstanding Christian, then I WANT THE PROOF. If you cannot offer proof you're just a mindless drone. You may as well deserve hell like the unsaved masses, because then you're just preaching to feel better about yourself.
It's pointless. You're just like the rest. You're brain washed. I will be willing to bet, that you can be easily provoked into hatred because of that fact.
You've failed. I asked you a simple question.
What do you do to be more like Jesus? I meant this personally, and I expected an answer. If you can't honestly answer then I suppose the smart thing to do is ignore it.
If you want to preach, prepare to be questioned. Prepare to either ignore or deflect the hard hitting questions. Are you just a pharisee, or do you try to do what you preach?
You may feel less important.. But to me it is important. If you are such an upstanding Christian, then I WANT THE PROOF. If you cannot offer proof you're just a mindless drone. You may as well deserve hell like the unsaved masses, because then you're just preaching to feel better about yourself.
You've failed. I asked you a simple question.
I suppose the smart thing to do is ignore it.
If you want to preach, prepare to be questioned.
I WANT THE PROOF. just a mindless drone.
good things here i like these and does questes i made are perfect.....
I liek the girl and her questes
Originally posted by ghaleon12
The thing I thought was strange was "choosing to go to heaven", it makes absolutely no sense at all. There is no "heaven", only pleasure, and no one willingly chooses to be in pain. So given an option of Heaven (pleasure) everyone would take it, it would literally be impossible to refuse it. That's part of the reason the creator does things the way he does, to give us free will so we aren't controlled since all we are are pleasure seekers.
Your assumptions are based on your freedom to choose what you want to believe. The Bible is a guide for your belief, and can be trusted to give you a good pathway to heaven. Reliability of the Bible is famous. It is the most authenticated, archaeologically-supported, consistent historical collection on earth. One of the ways you can see it is true is in predictive prophecy. For example, there are 333 prophecies that predicted the coming of Jesus -- how and where He was born, elements of His ministry, His purpose, and His death and resurrection. These prophecies were hundreds of years in advance. One that comes to mind is in Daniel, where the actual year of the coming of Jesus is predicted exactly, hundreds of years ahead. Only God knows the future with precision. Rely on His word to guide your life, and you have a solid rock for a foundation for your beliefs.
Some may refuse the idea of going to heaven here, but after they die and their mental and physical sicknesses are healed, and they see clearly the path of love provided for them by their loving and compassionate savior, Jesus, they will all accept this path except Satan.
Rom 10:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
And, in heaven, with your free will, you will choose heaven.
[edit on 22-6-2009 by Jim Scott]
Originally posted by Watchdog-Finland
You've failed. I asked you a simple question.
I suppose the smart thing to do is ignore it.
If you want to preach, prepare to be questioned.
I WANT THE PROOF. just a mindless drone.
good things here i like these and does questes i made are perfect.....
I liek the girl and her questes
One of the errors made in Christianity is looking to man for example. Look to Jesus. He is the perfect example of compassion, honesty, love, longsuffering, humility, kindness, mercy, thoughtfulness, patience, etc.
You will never find that in any man. The Bible is quite clear on this. For example, look at the failures of the best of men:
Sampson, the physically strongest, failed.
Solomon, the wisest, failed.
Job, the most righteous, failed.
Adam, the most innocent, failed.
David, the bravest, failed.
Moses, the most humble, failed.
The Apostles failed, denying Him and running to hide until the Holy Spirit led them.
Ironically, some of the best testimonies and faith examples were not the Christians. Jesus said the centurion had the greatest faith He had seen in Israel. The Roman soldier at the cross said "Surely this man was the Son of God."
However, that being said, for those who want to meet Jesus face to face in this life, I will give you the recipe for finding Him.
First, you must show Him that you love Him.
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Next, humble yourself.
James 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? 2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. 3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. 4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. 5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? 6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Numbers 12:3 (Now the man Moses was very meek [trans: humble], above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.) Deut 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no. 2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Third, do not tempt God by asking for a sign to prove it. Wait upon the Lord. He has promised you He will manifest Himself unto you.
Luke 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:["show me a sign"]
10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:
11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Matt 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it,...
If you want the sign, be humble, keep the commandments, follow Jesus and hope He will come to manifest Himself to you. He has done this to many people today, including me. www.carm.org...
He Lives. Good news. He did it all for you. You show Him how much you appreciate it by how you live. He tests you. See Deut 13:1-3
[edit on 22-6-2009 by Jim Scott]
reply to post by Jim Scott
I'm done with this thread. Jim I hope you'll be happy to know, that it is exactly people like you that I don't follow christianity any longer
To people like you, it is only a tool to make you feel better about yourself.
Preach all you want, but until you can answer for yourself, you deserve no time of day. Enjoy being a mindless drone, repeating phrases pre-programmed into you by your pastors for the rest of your days.
I'm done with this thread. Jim I hope you'll be happy to know, that it is exactly people like you that I don't follow christianity any longer
To people like you, it is only a tool to make you feel better about yourself.
Preach all you want, but until you can answer for yourself, you deserve no time of day. Enjoy being a mindless drone, repeating phrases pre-programmed into you by your pastors for the rest of your days.
Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Jim Scott
I'm done with this thread. Jim I hope you'll be happy to know, that it is exactly people like you that I don't follow christianity any longer
To people like you, it is only a tool to make you feel better about yourself.
Preach all you want, but until you can answer for yourself, you deserve no time of day. Enjoy being a mindless drone, repeating phrases pre-programmed into you by your pastors for the rest of your days.
Other than the personal attack, I am confused about what you are saying. Should I boast about what I do for Jesus personally? Like Jesus, I give my credit to the Father, or to Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. I will not be tempted to take this honor unto myself. It would be the opposite of humility. How do you suggest I report my Christian accomplishments? How can I answer for myself without the word of God? Do you believe these ideas are mine alone? I hope you understand. Similar to this:
John 5 "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 31"If I alone bear witness of Myself, My testimony is not true."
and
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
[edit on 22-6-2009 by Jim Scott]
Originally posted by Jim Scott
Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Jim Scott
I'm done with this thread. Jim I hope you'll be happy to know, that it is exactly people like you that I don't follow christianity any longer
To people like you, it is only a tool to make you feel better about yourself.
Preach all you want, but until you can answer for yourself, you deserve no time of day. Enjoy being a mindless drone, repeating phrases pre-programmed into you by your pastors for the rest of your days.
Other than the personal attack, what is it you are trying to say? I should boast about what I do for Jesus personally? Like Jesus, I give my credit to the Father, or to Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. I will not be tempted to take this honor unto myself. I hope you understand.
John 5 "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 31"If I alone bear witness of Myself, My testimony is not true."
What I am trying to say is that, you are a book. And you are nothing more. I don't mean this as a personal attack. However all you seem to do is post quotes from the bible.
I asked you what you do be more like Jesus. Who you give the credit to is no matter, just that you actually can say that you've done something to better peoples lives that doesn't include just throwing bible quotes at them.
Originally posted by Miraj
Originally posted by Jim Scott
Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Jim Scott
I'm done with this thread. Jim I hope you'll be happy to know, that it is exactly people like you that I don't follow christianity any longer
To people like you, it is only a tool to make you feel better about yourself.
Preach all you want, but until you can answer for yourself, you deserve no time of day. Enjoy being a mindless drone, repeating phrases pre-programmed into you by your pastors for the rest of your days.
Other than the personal attack, what is it you are trying to say? I should boast about what I do for Jesus personally? Like Jesus, I give my credit to the Father, or to Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. I will not be tempted to take this honor unto myself. I hope you understand.
John 5 "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 31"If I alone bear witness of Myself, My testimony is not true."
What I am trying to say is that, you are a book. And you are nothing more. I don't mean this as a personal attack. However all you seem to do is post quotes from the bible.
I asked you what you do be more like Jesus. Who you give the credit to is no matter, just that you actually can say that you've done something to better peoples lives that doesn't include just throwing bible quotes at them.
I see. Well, the Bible quotes are the suggested method by Jesus. I'm sure you have read how he replies to, for example, Satan in the wilderness with quotes from scripture. He relied on them, and I'm sure you wouldn't care about my opinion, per se, when you would be basing your life on the concepts I presented. You would be basing your life on my opinions, not on solid footing with the teachings of God. That would be where Jesus' parable comes in about building your house on sand or on a rock.
From a youth, I was an usher, sunday school teacher, choir member, head of youth groups, teacher of youth groups, scoutmaster, in charge of Sunday school, in charge of youth sports, assistant pastor, etc. I have extensive work in the community bettering people's lives through fund-raising activities, personal counseling, financial assistance, providing housing to the homeless, opening my doors to the homeless, feeding the homeless, assisting the cripples and widows, assisting the orphans, supporting overseas children, writing encouraging letters to locals, giving public talks to help in understanding the confusion in the scriptures, supported ministries that clarify scriptural misunderstandings, etc. I have saved the life of the US Undersecretary of the Treasury, numerous others of no significant office, provided emergency and otherwise assistance to several Presidents of the US, and so on. I hope this helps you in understanding me, and I hope this message is taken to your heart. However, it's not about me. It's only about Jesus, and what He did for us. It always was.
And now... the voice of pure experience. I posted this in the "Is God good or BAD" Thread- and I think it bears repeating.
Is God good or bad. Easy to see how BAD God is.
I prayed for 20 years for some basic human needs ( a sig other, a family, a normal, stable life). I got....
*My heart broken severely.
*Talents that make my friends stare in disbelief (arts, music, ect ect ect)- and Any and ALL attempts at use to enrich and further my life- screwed over in ways I cant even begin to explain.
* I am left on basic 'life support'- I have food, shelter, power, and yes- internet (who doesn't in some form or another unless you live in a mud hut- and even then....)- I am allowed only certain things in my life. Anything other than 'certain things' becomes an all out disaster.
* God's 'happy little piss ant followers' love to tell me constantly how "Blessed!" I am that I am LIVING. And then split hairs about how I can see, hear, ect ect. If this is living- let me DIE.
*These same SOBs like to then proceed to stab me in the back, as screwed as I am, and on top of insult and injury, get whatever their dark little hearts pray for- and then have every excuse ever heard- and invent a few extra on the spot- as to why THEY get good things, and I get left with a toilet full of week old *ahem* crap.
*Ask any person who has had their child die, or massive misfortune befall them how 'good' God is. Not convinced? Read Job- or as I like to call it " God hangs out in Vegas". Screws someone over- inflicts disease all over him, and when Job asks why... " BECAUSE I CAN, MORTAL!" Of course Job gets double back. You always do when you gamble..... Even when you're a pawn, evidently.
And this just isn't me. Think of how many millions go thru this, HAVE gone thru this- and only the real insane ones praise this capricious, uncaring deity for his 'love'.
Also- keep in mind- if God is 'good', WHY did God create a being he KNEW would turn evil- and then let this being have at it anywhere he wanted? It's like raising a kid to be a crook- but you're a 'good' parent. Or so you'd say...
See- I read all the pretty words in the dusty old book. I put them to the most severe test ever- When the woman I loved dearly left me for someone else. I prayed for YEARS to get her back- and watched my very life go down the abyss like a 2500lb lead cannonball thrown out of an airplane. I have had a front row seat to a woman, the FIRST woman in 20 years to actually show actual interest and feelings towards me get gravely ill and Then find out her home is being foreclosed on, due to the person responsible for payments (ex husband) just not doing it. This was DAYS after she told me how she felt. Now, we barely talk once a week.
I keep hearing about Jesus' love, and how he wants us all saved- but I SEE people who, like me- get the raw end of the deal, the messy end of the stick- and being told by those oh- so -wacky Christians they should be HAPPY they are being screwed like a $2 hooker. I have seen the Bible, and this stupid religion exactly for what it is- a way for the better to put their foot directly into the face of the lower, the downtrodden, the poor, the ill, and those 'not worthy'. There is no 'heaven' for people like me. The afterlife will belong to the rich and powerful, just like this world does. People like me STAY hurt, alone, and messed up, because GOD has decreed it! He 'lets' 'Satan' go have fun and do this because "He can, MORTAL!" It's nothing more than to give the masses false hope- so even when we're dead, we'll be serving the rich- It might just be a little more fun. Supposedly.
I can sum up Christianity in one word. Just one. Wanna know what it is?
ABUSE. I have proof coming out of my ears. Others experience it, but cant put a name to it- and no 'feel good, we're all going to heaven' bullpucky is going to whitewash the manure fence.
Is God good or bad. Easy to see how BAD God is.
I prayed for 20 years for some basic human needs ( a sig other, a family, a normal, stable life). I got....
*My heart broken severely.
*Talents that make my friends stare in disbelief (arts, music, ect ect ect)- and Any and ALL attempts at use to enrich and further my life- screwed over in ways I cant even begin to explain.
* I am left on basic 'life support'- I have food, shelter, power, and yes- internet (who doesn't in some form or another unless you live in a mud hut- and even then....)- I am allowed only certain things in my life. Anything other than 'certain things' becomes an all out disaster.
* God's 'happy little piss ant followers' love to tell me constantly how "Blessed!" I am that I am LIVING. And then split hairs about how I can see, hear, ect ect. If this is living- let me DIE.
*These same SOBs like to then proceed to stab me in the back, as screwed as I am, and on top of insult and injury, get whatever their dark little hearts pray for- and then have every excuse ever heard- and invent a few extra on the spot- as to why THEY get good things, and I get left with a toilet full of week old *ahem* crap.
*Ask any person who has had their child die, or massive misfortune befall them how 'good' God is. Not convinced? Read Job- or as I like to call it " God hangs out in Vegas". Screws someone over- inflicts disease all over him, and when Job asks why... " BECAUSE I CAN, MORTAL!" Of course Job gets double back. You always do when you gamble..... Even when you're a pawn, evidently.
And this just isn't me. Think of how many millions go thru this, HAVE gone thru this- and only the real insane ones praise this capricious, uncaring deity for his 'love'.
Also- keep in mind- if God is 'good', WHY did God create a being he KNEW would turn evil- and then let this being have at it anywhere he wanted? It's like raising a kid to be a crook- but you're a 'good' parent. Or so you'd say...
See- I read all the pretty words in the dusty old book. I put them to the most severe test ever- When the woman I loved dearly left me for someone else. I prayed for YEARS to get her back- and watched my very life go down the abyss like a 2500lb lead cannonball thrown out of an airplane. I have had a front row seat to a woman, the FIRST woman in 20 years to actually show actual interest and feelings towards me get gravely ill and Then find out her home is being foreclosed on, due to the person responsible for payments (ex husband) just not doing it. This was DAYS after she told me how she felt. Now, we barely talk once a week.
I keep hearing about Jesus' love, and how he wants us all saved- but I SEE people who, like me- get the raw end of the deal, the messy end of the stick- and being told by those oh- so -wacky Christians they should be HAPPY they are being screwed like a $2 hooker. I have seen the Bible, and this stupid religion exactly for what it is- a way for the better to put their foot directly into the face of the lower, the downtrodden, the poor, the ill, and those 'not worthy'. There is no 'heaven' for people like me. The afterlife will belong to the rich and powerful, just like this world does. People like me STAY hurt, alone, and messed up, because GOD has decreed it! He 'lets' 'Satan' go have fun and do this because "He can, MORTAL!" It's nothing more than to give the masses false hope- so even when we're dead, we'll be serving the rich- It might just be a little more fun. Supposedly.
I can sum up Christianity in one word. Just one. Wanna know what it is?
ABUSE. I have proof coming out of my ears. Others experience it, but cant put a name to it- and no 'feel good, we're all going to heaven' bullpucky is going to whitewash the manure fence.
reply to post by wylekat
Your story is interesting and powerful. I respect the difficulties you have lived. You are bitter against God for allowing these things to happen.
One of my children was hit by a car at 14. He is permanently handicapped, and presents a constant problem for us. He had six children, they have been taken by Child Protective Services because he is mildly retarded, as is his wife. I had a career collapse, even with all the right qualifications and being nearly the best at what I do. Then I started a business, and it also eventually failed, at great expense and after lawsuit losses, even though Google allowed it to be called the best in America. Two of my other children did not finish either high school or college, and are having financial problems. My wife is just finishing up breast cancer therapy. Her mom and dad died. My dad died. My car was in an accident a month ago. My finances are low, and my home is four months behind in payments. Life is a struggle. We are all in it.
However, it is a temporary struggle.
When you are tossing in a boat in the ocean, you may get seasick. However, if you focus your gaze on the horizon, where there is a stable view, your sickness may diminish. I set my sights on the horizon, and life doesn't make me sick.
When you made your choices, like I did, you did not know what would occur as a result. If we could, no one would have a struggle in life. The point is that you and I made the choices, not God. The nature of Jesus in the scriptures is a comfort to me. When I see the ship if life tossing in the ocean of the world, and I step out in faith to walk on the water of that world toward Jesus, if I set my gaze on the ocean and take it off Jesus, I sink like Peter did. It is at that point that I, like Peter, ask Him to save me. As in the story of Job, as you cited, Job's wife said "Do you still retain your integrity? Curse God, and die!" I submit to you that it may be better to not curse God, but rather to accept the life that you and I have received and work, in faith, with Him. Consider Sampson. He had everything going for him. Strong, a leader and judge among his people. He made a choice to reveal his secret. Things got bad. However, at the last, he remembered God and stayed faithful. You and I may have it hard, but we aren't turning a millstone to grind corn day and night because of our choices. Each of us has our challenge. God has promised us that He will not allow us to be tempted above what we are able to bear. He must think you are strong, if you are a believer. If you do not believe, perhaps He is passing you through a "refiners fire" until your sorrow repairs your soul.
God promises the believer that He will have what he needs, He does not promise to give the believer what he wants.
Let us help one another through this life and into the next. It sounds like the so-called Christians that are in your lifespace are not Christians at all. Some of the biggest problems I had in business were Christians. One Chaplain's wife stiffed me for $3000+. The faith of some is not real.
God bless you in your struggle, brother. Wish I were there to help.
[edit on 22-6-2009 by Jim Scott]
Your story is interesting and powerful. I respect the difficulties you have lived. You are bitter against God for allowing these things to happen.
One of my children was hit by a car at 14. He is permanently handicapped, and presents a constant problem for us. He had six children, they have been taken by Child Protective Services because he is mildly retarded, as is his wife. I had a career collapse, even with all the right qualifications and being nearly the best at what I do. Then I started a business, and it also eventually failed, at great expense and after lawsuit losses, even though Google allowed it to be called the best in America. Two of my other children did not finish either high school or college, and are having financial problems. My wife is just finishing up breast cancer therapy. Her mom and dad died. My dad died. My car was in an accident a month ago. My finances are low, and my home is four months behind in payments. Life is a struggle. We are all in it.
However, it is a temporary struggle.
When you are tossing in a boat in the ocean, you may get seasick. However, if you focus your gaze on the horizon, where there is a stable view, your sickness may diminish. I set my sights on the horizon, and life doesn't make me sick.
When you made your choices, like I did, you did not know what would occur as a result. If we could, no one would have a struggle in life. The point is that you and I made the choices, not God. The nature of Jesus in the scriptures is a comfort to me. When I see the ship if life tossing in the ocean of the world, and I step out in faith to walk on the water of that world toward Jesus, if I set my gaze on the ocean and take it off Jesus, I sink like Peter did. It is at that point that I, like Peter, ask Him to save me. As in the story of Job, as you cited, Job's wife said "Do you still retain your integrity? Curse God, and die!" I submit to you that it may be better to not curse God, but rather to accept the life that you and I have received and work, in faith, with Him. Consider Sampson. He had everything going for him. Strong, a leader and judge among his people. He made a choice to reveal his secret. Things got bad. However, at the last, he remembered God and stayed faithful. You and I may have it hard, but we aren't turning a millstone to grind corn day and night because of our choices. Each of us has our challenge. God has promised us that He will not allow us to be tempted above what we are able to bear. He must think you are strong, if you are a believer. If you do not believe, perhaps He is passing you through a "refiners fire" until your sorrow repairs your soul.
God promises the believer that He will have what he needs, He does not promise to give the believer what he wants.
Let us help one another through this life and into the next. It sounds like the so-called Christians that are in your lifespace are not Christians at all. Some of the biggest problems I had in business were Christians. One Chaplain's wife stiffed me for $3000+. The faith of some is not real.
God bless you in your struggle, brother. Wish I were there to help.
[edit on 22-6-2009 by Jim Scott]
Originally posted by wylekat
[snip] Also- keep in mind- if God is 'good', WHY did God create a being he KNEW would turn evil
If God created a being that could not possibly turn evil, that being would not have free will. It is the free will that allows choices based on love. God chose to make a creation with love in it. For example:
Deut 13:1-4
for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
I'm glad He didn't make me a robot.
Thing is- I KNOW abuse. What I have been put thru, or 'allowed' to be put thru by God is just that. Abuse. What you're being put thru is abuse.
All the pretty words on earth in any language mean complete and utter squat when the actions are the absolute opposite. You cannot call anything 'love' when you are beating, or trying to kill your child, and all the time saying "I'm doing this because I love you". You cant hire a bully to beat up your child and say it, either, and call it love. BECAUSE IT JUST AINT. No promise, no 'reward when I am dead' is going to make me just sit up and smile all broad- because I actually and honestly DO KNOW BETTER. I see nothing appealing about spending all eternity without a single relative, kid, or anyone else to say 'these are my (insert relation here)'. I am not going to be convinced how wonderful God is- because of what has been done to me. In fact, I'll keep lunging for the Almighty's jugular for the rest of my (un)natural life if need be for what has been done to me.
And BTW- that's about the ONLY decision I have been able to make!
All the pretty words on earth in any language mean complete and utter squat when the actions are the absolute opposite. You cannot call anything 'love' when you are beating, or trying to kill your child, and all the time saying "I'm doing this because I love you". You cant hire a bully to beat up your child and say it, either, and call it love. BECAUSE IT JUST AINT. No promise, no 'reward when I am dead' is going to make me just sit up and smile all broad- because I actually and honestly DO KNOW BETTER. I see nothing appealing about spending all eternity without a single relative, kid, or anyone else to say 'these are my (insert relation here)'. I am not going to be convinced how wonderful God is- because of what has been done to me. In fact, I'll keep lunging for the Almighty's jugular for the rest of my (un)natural life if need be for what has been done to me.
And BTW- that's about the ONLY decision I have been able to make!
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