I am a Military Recruiter and would like to clear up some misconceptions.

Originally posted by truttseeker
reply to post by BeyondBelow

 

Funny thing is for training "murderers" the navy has very few actual on the ground combat troops. I joined the navy when most of the world looked at me and said that I would amount to nothing. Now I'm a nuke machinists mate and to my knowledge will never see a battlefield. Maybe move a ship to one, but yeah, im not going around popping heads off.

To the author: good job shipmate on clearing some stuff up. My recruiter told me flat out what life would be like and everything about nuke school.

Cool, so if you don't see the people you kill it's all good?

Again it just goes to show the morally bankrupt justification needed to endorse such actions.

The only thing I can say is that among all the branches, I would imagine the Navy and Air Force would be the most honest and a bit unlike the other 2.

And to be honest, the actual "army" stuff was fun. I loved being on tanks and doing tank things. Just didn't care for the stuff we did the other 95% of the time. The army was mostly like getting a new set of parents who don't really give a crap about you and use you for their own amusements.

But the real deal is the actions and what they are used for today.

In all fairness, Army and Marine Corps recruiters lie through their teeth and have been documented doing so. Even so far as calling prospective recruits and telling them they are already enlisted since they signed a piece of paper requesting information. One of my cousins just went through this himself with the Marines.

The Navy and the Air Force always tend to have a surplus of potential recruits since they attract the better students and the Air Force ROTC has an excellent high school program but the Army is incontrovertibly hurting for recruits. They wouldn't be extending service for those whose terms have ended if they had backups.

All I can speak of is my own personal experience in The Navy. I enlisted in 1983 and served 8 years. I came out with the rank of AMH1. Now I believe all three of the AM ratings have been combined into one (AMH, AMS, AME), which is as it should be because we did all of the jobs once in airframes anyhow.

I was lied to by my recruiter, I joined with my best friend and we were promised to go to boot camp and A school together, neither of which happened. My friend went to sunny Orlando while I spent the coldest winter on record in the Great Lakes NRTC. As a matter of fact, I never even saw my friend again until after we had both gotten out of the military (he only did 4 years).

While I was in the Navy I commented on more than one occasion about the intellectual level of the people I worked with. In my opinion, it was the largest gathering of stupid people in the history of mankind. A person with above average intelligence looked like a God. I had more medals and ribbons on my cracker jacks than did my commanding officer in two of the squadrons I was attached to and one of those the C.O. was a veteran Vietnam fighter pilot. I was no-where near as intelligent as I was made to look; however, a person of average intelligence swimming in a pool of idiots looks much smarter than he actually is (the cream always floats to the top so to speak). Because of this I made E-6 in just under 6 years as an early candidate.

There were numerous sailors that I worked with when I was in the Navy that said they only joined because a judge offered them the opportunity to enlist as compared to going to jail, so I am guessing that at least some of those would have been convicted felons had it not been for "the bargain".

Also during my 8 years of service, I never once saw or heard of a recruiter being court marshaled or even going to captain's mast over lying and nearly every sailor I ever spoke with had a story to tell about how he was lied to or deceived into enlisting. In fact the only recruiter I ever heard of that got into trouble was a guy accused of raping a female air force recruiter that worked out of the same branch office.

I do not know what the military is like today; however, 26 years ago, it was everything you stated it is not now.

I would like to believe what you are saying is true, because that is how it should be; however, my own personal experience dictates that I believe otherwise.

Now for the bright part of my post.

I thoroughly enjoyed my 8 years in the Navy and got to see a substantial part of the world in the process when I was attached to VF squadrons. I was lucky enough to go on two IO cruises (Indian Ocean) and spent my last 2 1/2 years in NATC Patuxent River Md. working in VQ-4 which is a top secret squadron and out of respect for my fellow VQ'ers, I will not go into what we did other than stating that we were a communication hub between the pentagon and the boomers (nuclear weapons subs) and used some extremely sophisticated TACAMO radio equipment (we even had a red phone just like the bat phone (lol) that went directly to the pentagon, no buttons, no dial, just a handset and a base).

I learned to be organized and to keep myself prepared in the military, skills that have served me well in the afterlife of military service, not to mention the importance of teamwork.

Good luck in convincing people that you all are great now. I sincerely hope you are correct.

[edit on 6/19/2009 by DarrylGalasso]

I might of missed if this question was asked...

With all that's going on today with TPTB, would the military defend the constitution against foreign & DOMESTIC enemy's?

Would they fire on their own country men if "they" ordered it?

Normaly I don't get mad over the things people post in these threads. I usually take it all with a grain of salt and interject my opinion or post a fact that is relevant.

@Juston
Thank you for trying to show people that not everyone is the same and that by stereotyping people you end up with unreal statistics. You were simply trying to straighten out a misconception and I applaud you for that.

@everyone who's posting about war and how it's people like Juston's fault you should remember one thing.

There are only 2 forces who have have offered to die for you!!!!!!!!
Jesus Christ and the American soldier.

One died for your soul, the other for your freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So STFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and back off Juston!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for sacrifice Juston!!! (salutes)

reply to post by INJUNJAY


How are they fighting for my freedom when I've lost more freedoms since this war than I have at any other time in my life?

I remember hearing - they hate us for our freedom, and they hope to bankrupt us like Russia. But yet, it turns out the people who said that were the ones who ended up taking our freedoms and bankrupting us, not the people we are fighting.

It's easy to claim they are fighting for our freedoms. But shouldn't we be making sure that is what they are actually fighting for? Is it not a bit wrong if someone offers to die for your freedom, and then you end up having them die so you can gain a bit of profit and control in a region instead?

So before you say we should shut up because they are dieing for our freedom, how about we first establish if they are actually fighting for our freedom.

I don't know about you, but where I come from giving away the things you are supposedly fighting for is contradictory to reason.



[edit on 19-6-2009 by badmedia]

First off ( and I am sure many here will not like this) How many here have stopped to think if it was not for the military we would not have any of the freedoms we think we still have left. We would all be speaking German and doing a Nazi salute instead of worshiping the up and coming dictator. Anyone who posted on a site like this would have been in prison or shot.
I am ex Air Force and am not ashamed to have served. I do recall a couple friends of mine who enlisted as a team in 1972. The recruiter promised them that they would go tru basic and be posted on the same base after training. This did happen as he promised. But there was the little fact that 24 hours after being posted both received orders to different bases, far apart. So did the recruiter lie? Nope. But when you sign up ( at least back then) you agreed to follow orders like it or not.

Now my question for the OP. How do you answer questions to the people who ask if obama is a legal president given no one has proven he has the legal right to hold office. See many web sites questioning his birth certificate since all he has shown is a modified short form proven to be fake. I also seem to recall I had to show a long form to enlist, is that still the way it is? I know some officers have filed suit questioning this because they take the oath they took seriously and want to be sure. Which I feel the same way. It is not to much to ask from the leader the same asked from the followers.

reply to post by ::.mika.::


Do you know what I was issued daily on my job in the USAF? A tool box. I worked on C-130s. A cargo plane. It's job was to move things. People, troops, cargo, you know, stuff. I had to qualify with an M-16 once a year. In all my time in the military, I never killed anyone. I did drop a wrench on a dude by accident, he got over it. Not everyone sits in the machine gun nest, or behind a Barrett 50 cal waiting for the chance to kill. Please educate yourself a bit, then come back. It will be more fun for everyone then.

Originally posted by TwiTcHomatic
reply to post by munkey66

 

Strongest and brightest eh? I personally know someone who failed their asvab test (less than 30% correct 3 times) and was accepted after an "oral asvab" ..... brightest does not equate into the conversation... Only the ability to sign your name matters.

Now here's the thing, the sole purpose of the military is to subdue other people by killing them when someone else tells you to.

Now you have to be one dumb assed SOB not to know this and choose it as career.

You must be even dumber if you let someone persuade you the military doesn't do what it says on the tin.

But what does it actually say on the tin ?

Perhaps recruiting offices should have posters with casualties on them to really make the prospect think before they sign the dotted line.
After all they wouldn't want to give the wrong image of the military would they ?

Then they're more likely to sign up only people who "want" to kill other people when someone tells them to.

Personally I think it would be a good idea to load big airplanes with drug dealers and drop them on the enemy.

We do not lie to get people to enlist. When I say we, I say it as a whole. Is there one or two out of 100 that do? Of course!

this has not always been true back during the Vietnam war recruiters lied though there teeth
this is why the recruiters are running into people with bad information.
not true now maybe but 100% true back during the Vietnam war.

Some info that people are given is still false.

i am a navy Vietnam blue water vet.

the services have always told enlistees that if you are injured of disable because of your military service the government will take care of you.

as i said i am a navy Vietnam blue water vet. this is misleading because i was so close to shore that the water was BROWN from the outflow of the rivers. yes those rivers that were loaded with runoff of agent orange.

yet many of us blue water vets have disorders that are on the agent orange list but because we did not set foot on shore we can not claim our disorders were caused by agent orange.

there is other vets that were exposed to trichloroethylene we use this for cleaning parts and used 100% strength.

trichloroethylene was found to be so dangerous that its banned on all military bases. military personal can not even buy it off base and bring it on base of use on there own cars.

Yet the VA claims that did not cause any health problems and we can not get service connected for it even the EPA has a list of health problems it causes and the VA still will not give service connected for it
en.wikipedia.org...

The level for drinking water has been set at 5 parts per billion (ppb)
www.epa.gov...

Yet many vets were exposed to PURE 100% trichloroethylene.

Then you have the wars in Iraq and afghanistan and the wounded vets that are being screwed.
www.tonysrants.com...
atlantis.cbsnews.com...
seattletimes.nwsource.com...
www.commongroundcommonsense.org...


Its not what the recruiters tell you now its what they don't tell.

Oh by the way when i enlisted I was signed up to become a photographer.
as i had worked for the navy for 8 months as a high speed and ultra high speed research photographer for the Navy at NOTS China Lake. plus had done a on the work experience program in high school as a photographer at NOTS china lake.

but because my draft number was comming up i had to enlist or be drafted.

Then because i tested high on my testing at boot camp they tried to get me to go to OCS and become a officer.(ASVAB 120 and already had a navy top secret clearance)
When i told them i was not interested they changed my paper work and made me a electrician's mate to punish me.

I got even though,
After i left the navy i worked as a security officer at China Lake.
I got to have a lot of fun with these anal retentive navy officers that gave me problems.
I also had fun writing up a few marines that gave me problems as i was inactive reserve when i work as security. This allowed me to put any lower rank military personal on report if the gave me a problem.
there old gunneys sargents just loved me for that.

And i understand the recruiter did not lie to me. it was someone higher in the chain of command that screwed with me when i was in boot camp.

You wimpy recruiters need to get a life and quit complaining when us veterans tell people that want to enlist how the system really works.



[edit on 19-6-2009 by ANNED]

reply to post by Hx3_1963

They would fire on you because they'd be court martialed for not doing so. No different than a foreign occupying army firing on you. Or a robber shooting a victim of the same nationality. That's what they are trained to do, life is not like the movies where a soldier rides up on his tank and voila, there's Grandma, his ex girlfriend and his third grade teacher to shake loose his induction oath. When TSHTF all they are going to be looking at is people who may shoot first.

Hate to break some cinematic bubbles but the entire military will not suddenly up and revolt the way they did in Russia or Shah-era Iran. Things ARE NOT THAT BAD here guys, it will take years of severe deprivation and brutal rule to bring things to that level. No gulags, no tent cities like the Gaza strip, no tribes of people dying of starvation in the desert. If the military revolted every time they did not like the Commander in Chief this would take place approximately every four years.....The military may not like the downsizing that takes place in Democratic administrations but they all like being able to earn a paycheck without getting shot.

Geez, Juston, what have you done?

I read thru the majority of the posts. Some were really good statements or questions from posters that were ignorant of how recruiting worked and wanted to know more. That's always great to see.

Some of the posters are definately speaking from their fourth point of contact (and you know who you are). These are the ones that have no clue about the military and probably ought to spend some time in the beaten zone before they run their suck.

I enlisted in the AF when I was 17. I'm 44 now and still in. There are some things I wish I could have done differently, but all in all, it was a good decision.

Question, Juston: Can I join the Navy even if my mom and dad were legally married prior to my birth? I was told I couldn't.

Ok, enough Navy bashing.

It would seem many of you want the military eliminated. If that were to occur, who defends us, you? Yeah, right

reply to post by Juston


While a great deal of what you have said is correct, I think a few very real problems were downplayed in your initial post

I graduated from the Marine Corps Recruit Depot, San Diego in December of 2003, and because the school of infantry was not picking up classes at Christmas time I was assigned to assist my recruiter for a couple weeks after my boot leave.

During that time we lost a couple of poolees (individuals who had signed enlistment papers but not yet begun their term of active service) who said they were needed at home for financial reasons.

In fairness to the staff sergeant, he didn't try to bully, shame, or scare the poolees out of their decision.
(Some will. I've heard recruits threatened with a dishonorable discharge, which counts as a felony, but in reality only a general court martial can dishonorably discharge you, and only for certain offenses. Virtually everyone who is punatively discharged before basic training receives either a general discharge under honorable conditions or an OTH (General Discharge Under Other Than Honorable Conditions, which has very little weight outside of the military, as long as its not for drugs- drug pops get a different reenlistment code and some employers apparently will turn you away for that, although I've never seen or even heard of it actually happening). Some will even tell you that you'll end up serving the rest of your contract in the brig and get fined 10,000 dollars. These threats are particularly common before your last "moment of truth" in basic, and in the rare event that a recruit refuses to train.

But my recruiter tried to reassure them that the insultingly low pay that congress offers our warriors for doing some of the most difficult jobs in the world (roughly the equivalent of working 40 hour weeks for the federal minimum wage) would meet all of their family's needs, and he let us tell them how being away from their family wouldn't be so bad, but when that didn't work, he cut them loose.

But then he turned to me and my buddy who had just come back from boot (after the poolees he was talking to left) and said "you know I've got to lie to these MFers to get them to enlist, and I don't even want them here."

My point is not that recruiters or anyone else in the military is evil. My point is that they have a mission to accomplish, and that mission has nothing to do with keeping you out or letting you out of the military. That goes for your recruiter, your drill instructor, your doctor, and even your chaplain. Within the bounds of reason, their mission will trump your well being every time. In some regrettable cases, their mission will trump your well being well beyond the bounds of reason as well.

For instance, your goofy half-educated navy doctor may refuse to do an MRI that might put you out of the Marine Corps, even though you experience strong and persistent lower back pain just from carrying a pair of canteens on your belt. So you'll have to choose between refusing to train or attempting a 20 kilometer hump with a bad back. Word to the wise though-when you come hobbling back into Naval Hospital Camp Pendleton, don't cuss or say I told you so, because you still won't get your MRI and you'll come dang close to being NJPed (NJP=Non Judicial Punishment) for disrespect. (yeah I'm a little bitter about that one, sorry to carry a grudge).


There is also a serious deficiency in standards, both in terms of physical performance and intelligence.

Servicemen are far above average physically by American standards, but that's not saying much, since the average American eats 3700 calories a day, over a third of it in the form of fat, andmore than half of us don't perform the CDC's recomended level of leisure time physical activity, and almost 1 in 4 of us report ZERO liesure time physical activity when questioned. I won't even get into the 4+ hours a day we spend watching TV.

To join the Marine Corps, you are supposed to be able to do 2 pullups without getting off the bar, 35 situps in 2 minutes, and run 1.5 miles in 13:30. That would earn you a low B from my 9th grade phys ed teacher (who would hold your ankle to stop you from kipping on your pullups and would not allow a reverse grip on the bar- the DIs let both of those things slide).
And the fact is, a lot of guys can't actually do that when they arrive at basic. I don't know if their recruiters lied about their Initial Strength Test results or if they just got sloppy between MEPS and Basic, but after my platoon took the IST in boot we sent 8 guys to porkchop platoon- that was almost 10% of the platoon.
That's part of why you work so hard in boot of course, but we never dropped anyone from our platoon for falling out of a march (unless they had to be sent to medical recovery platoon. When we went up the Grim Reaper (one of the last serious physical challenges in boot) a couple of us actually had to go back down to drag the stragglers up. So when I got to the school of infantry I saw 03s (infantrymen) falling out of 10k humps- and we weren't even running.

I always wondered exactly when the Marine Corps gets around to either changing or getting rid of those guys, because I never saw it happen. They all went out into the fleet to do their thing, still not able walk up a god dang hill under training conditions, and I have a pretty good idea of what would happen if they actually had to take a hill from the enemy.

We also had a chronic bed wetter in our platoon. Instead of dropping him for his medical condition they ordered us to wake him up every hour on the hour and walk him to the head. I hope they did the same for him in the fleet or that kid's gonna have a case of trench foot somewhere other than his foot, if ya know what I mean.

Then there's the intellect thing.
I kid you not, while I was billeted as prac recruit (responsible for tutoring other recruits on basic military knowledge) I had to spend 15 minutes teaching one recruit how to pronounce the word Colonel. Thank god we didn't have any asian recruits because I had to make him speak in "engrish" for a few minutes to help him get it- the idea that not all words could be sounded out went right over his head.

One of the guys seemed like he might have some kind of palsy. His speech was slurred and his arms just kind of hung limp and jangled around when he marched. I tried to teach him the general orders for sentries by having him repeat after me, but he wasn't able to hear and then repeat more than 3 or 4 words at a time. Finally the DIs got to the point where everywhere we went they just made him stand in the corner and face the wall, but he couldn't even do that right- he'd start to wander around in small circles, and when the DIs yelled at him he'd look at the corner and then at them like a confused dog until somebody physically turned his body back towards the wall for him. Our DIs tried very hard to get him dropped, but it took several weeks. They finally got him on the road to a psych discharge right before weapons issue.


I see where you're coming from, because there are a lot of people who think that the US military has shortcomings it can't correct, and that it orders you and other recruiters to work around this problem by lowering standards and lying, and that viewpoint isn't entirely accurate or fair.

It is however true that the US military faces some challenges, many of which originate outside of the military, in our society itself. In order to overcome such challenges, the military needs more support and cooperation from our society (and vice versa perhaps). If we can agree on this, then it seems that it is in the best interest of the military not to allieviate concerns, but rather to draw attention to them.

You can correctly say that the military still maintains physical standards which are well above average for Americans. But then it sounds like nothing needs to change.

Or you can correctly say that the average high school graduate is physically unfit for military service, and that while this may not be compromising our security in any immediate way, it does reduce the pool from which recruiters can draw, which mathematically necessitates a higher success rate for recruiters and therefore more spending on recruitment and retention.

So I would encourage you to consider not just saying, "things are a lot better than people think" but saying that along with something like, "things could be a lot better though too, and if we make them better we'll be safer and save money".

[edit on Fri 19 Jun 2009 by The Vagabond]

I wanna wear a rubber alien costume and join the secret astronaut corp!

In the space navy
Yes, you can pretend to be aliens
In the space navy
Yes, you can conquer other worlds
In the space navy
Come on now, Terrans , make a final stand
In the space navy, in the space navy
Can't you see we need a hand
In the space navy
Come on, protect the mother earth
In the space navy
Come on and enslave your fellow man
In the space navy
Come on earthlings, and make your final stand
In the space navy, in the space navy, in the space navy

[edit on 19-6-2009 by MOTT the HOOPLE]

reply to post by iraqvet85

I feel very bad for Army recruiters right now, two of my uncles are Army war vets and one retired in 1994 as a recruiter. It was difficult even then to get recruits, the local recruiter I see a lot is ex-10th Mountain and looks older every time I run into him. He can't be a day over 30, if that. I'm sure its not just PTSD though the whole group they had at the state fair a few months ago twitched a little too much for comfort.

The kids in our area are not generally OCS material, even a lot of the ROTC kids, so he's already got a loaded deck unless the Army really drops its standards and starts taking recruits with drug or other felony convictions en masse. Parents aren't helping, I went to a high school graduation a few weeks back and the principal asked all of the kids who were going into the military to stand up (about 20 out of a class of around 500) and everyone clapped. Then one of the teachers I was sitting with muttered "There goes a bunch of dead kids" and a lot of parents agreed with that too. Sure killed their moment of recognition.

The best recruiter story I heard was from a friend that recruited for the Army.

He said that as soon as a guy came in with his girlfriend, it was a lock the kid would enlist.

He'd put on all the gung-ho videos of jump school, air assault, etc. After they were over, he'd ask the kid if he was going to enlist.

If he said no, or that he wasn't sure, my friend would say, "What are you, some kind of p*ssy?"

The kid would practically rip the enlistment forms from his hands so that he could sign them in front of his girlfriend, proving he wasn't a wimp.

Good times.

reply to post by jerico65

Man, that is hard core! Wonder how they got women to enlist, then again, there are some pretty tough women soldiers out there. One of the local track coaches is ex-Army and it's all I can do sometimes not to drop and give her 50 when she is rousing her troops, I mean, students...

First off, I want to offer my sincerest apologies to you, the OP. Having to deal with the Navy is obviously what some (Pelosi) would consider torture.

Now if you're interested in the Army, then I could probably help you out. I understand our standards are getting so low that we might accept one to two Navy personnel every year.

But don't bank on it!

There are those of us that do understand and appreciate the work you do.
Even squids. . . .

reply to post by The Vagabond

Ten years ago a fellow I was dating signed up for the Marine reserves to do the family honor thing. He was about 60 pounds over weight so they deferred him for six months. One week before he was supposed to start basic, they again told him to lose weight. Two months later when he finally reported him and a group of plump boys from South Carolina and Georgia were all lumped into the "Fat Boy Platoon" and dubbed Fat Boy 1, 2, 3....
He was so skinny by the time he finished boot camp his own mother didn't recognize him when he got off the plane!