N. Korea slams U.S. nuclear umbrella as declaration of war+

reply to post by secretagent woooman


Indeed, these are traditional armies long before many nations had even been established. There is much more to the Asian culture and code of ethics than what the Western World realizes.

reply to post by tristar


Ah but North Korea is of strategic importance to China, as a buffer state. And I don't think this incident is meant to touch off a war, I think this incident is to lull the rest of the world into trusting the sleeping tiger just a little bit more.

reply to post by Karlhungis


i think your on to something. China has said in the past they were ok with some sanctions but when they went to far China pulled support. Now i think everyone is waiting to see if China really is going to back stronger sanctions or not before they make a move.

From the tone of Chinese officials that will talk about NK in the press. it sounds like China is really getting tired of NK and might actually stand aside and let SK, US and Japan take out lil Kimmie. I think were china will take a stand and draw the line is if us, Sk, and Japanese troops get to close to China's border.

reply to post by Mercenary2007


To allow U.N. forces to re define Korea border is out of the question. South Korea is already way too close for comfort for the Chinese and add the value that the U.S. and U.N are trying to get closer to Russia from all sides is just as plain as day light.

This issue addresses the complex problems of border and mineral ownership. China is way to heavily dependent on foreign mining to rock the boat and would not like to return to an independatant soviet import of there first raw minerals resources. So allowing N.Korea to be as previously mentioned the buffer zone is more than probable and very efficient way in creating what ever you would need to create to secure your long term plan what ever they have in mind. Russia seems to be in idle moves but is focused on if and what agreement China and N.Korea have going.

Lets not forget, that when Russia was being invaded by Germany, China did attack Russia twice and was pounded back to its original borders. When the French were occupying Vietnam China did supply the army along with Russian military hardware. After the withdrawl of the French from Vietnam then the came the U.S. which had the same outcome as what the French had. Both wars against the then communist ideology were backed by both China in tactictitions and army and Russia with military hardware.

So this not only about North Korea vs the U.S. or U.N. as many people seem to believe, it has the whole region involved as a potential of re shuffling the world map is being considered.

The headline is misleading as the last paragraph says it all. The time frame seems to fit the exact time slot that the U.N is to announce its sanctions and to what extent can neighboring country's conduct inspections on N. Korean vessels.

Russia holds major army reform to resist threats from USA and NATO

10.06.2009

Russia will hold a number of large-scale military drills within the scope of the army reform. All brigades of the Northern Caucasus, the Black Sea Navy and the Caspian Fleet will participate in the maneuvers from June 29 to July 10. The units of the Leningrad and Siberian military districts, the Northern and the Baltic navies will participate in Ladoga military exercise from August 10 to September 28.

english.pravda.ru...


This does indicate that all its naval arsenal is and will be mobile in an exercise under the quoted large-scale military drills which indicates that they will be battle ready for any outcome. All that remains is that China announces similar military drills which will show us that everyone is taking their positions for what ever the outcome might be.

[edit on 11-6-2009 by tristar]

reply to post by tristar

China only intervened during the Korean war because US and UN troops advance to far north, to fast for China's Comfort. they really didn't care that NK was getting pounded by the US and the UN. and they were afraind the US and UN wouldn't stop south of the Chinese border. NK is a burden on China, NK really doesn't have anything that China needs.

while yes i do agree with you that it would benefit China to keep a divided Korea as a buffer zone, Each time that NK steps out of line, China distances themselves from NK. Eventually NK is going to run out of rope and hit the noose.

China and NK really aren't that close of allies as most people think. and neither is Russia and NK. Eventually they will either deal with NK themselves or will step aside and let the US and Sk do it.




[edit on 6/11/2009 by Mercenary2007]

This just another example of North Korean "brinksmanship" diplomacy. It's been going on for the last 3 administrations and they are just testing Obama's resolve.

It hasn't even been confirmed if they have the Bomb or not. There have been two underground tests in North Korea to date. Both have been of a yield less than the Bomb dropped on Hiroshima. That is in the kiloton range and could easily have been faked with convention explosives.

Edit: I would just like to add that China is all about the Money nowadays. During the 50's is was the People's Revolution and the communist ideal. Now it's - the Money.

South Korea is the fourth largest importer of Chinese goods, and the second largest exporter to China. North Korea's economy barely supports it's self.

[edit on 6/11/09 by War Otter]

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
reply to post by tristar

 

China only intervened during the Korean war because US and UN troops advance to far north, to fast for China's Comfort. they really didn't care that NK was getting pounded by the US and the UN. and they were afraind the US and UN wouldn't stop south of the Chinese border. NK is a burden on China, NK really doesn't have anything that China needs.

while yes i do agree with you that it would benefit China to keep a divided Korea as a buffer zone, Each time that NK steps out of line, China distances themselves from NK. Eventually NK is going to run out of rope and hit the noose.

China and NK really aren't that close of allies as most people think. and neither is Russia and NK. Eventually they will either deal with NK themselves or will step aside and let the US and Sk do it.

reply to post by Mercenary2007


It is true that China and Russia do not have the best relanshioship with N.Korea, whoever they would not allow the U.N. backed by the U.S. to enter a region which has always defied western ideology.

This is the problem which if and when a conventional war on a limited scale was to occur at what point would the other two traditionally backed allies enter the scene. This is what is creating a headache for the U.N. sanctions against N.Korea. As you might have noticed, Japan has offered to patrol and inspect all sea vessels from N.Korea, this is with the blessing of the U.N. and U.S.. What Japan which is now more americanized than what it was 50 years ago fail's to realize is that its allies are way too far to help in an event that it all goes the wrong way and real fast.

As history has shown us, wars have started with far less issues than what we are being presented with at the moment.

Originally posted by War Otter
This just another example of North Korean "brinksmanship" diplomacy. It's been going on for the last 3 administrations and they are just testing Obama's resolve.

If i was to consistently whisper in your ear "you must take a stand" at which point would you take a stand and how much of stand would you be willing to go.

It hasn't even been confirmed if they have the Bomb or not. There have been two underground tests in North Korea to date. Both have been of a yield less than the Bomb dropped on Hiroshima. That is in the kiloton range and could easily have been faked with convention explosives.

That mere mention of a nuclear ability is just another card they are using to establish that they have a reason for trying to defend themselves against another nation which has nearly double its population in size and is in a technical cease fire status.

Edit: I would just like to add that China is all about the Money nowadays. During the 50's is was the People's Revolution and the communist ideal. Now it's - the Money.

South Korea is the fourth largest importer of Chinese goods, and the second largest exporter to China. North Korea's economy barely supports it's self.

Judging by their moves, they are placing themselves in far more strategic position than what they were twenty years ago. They do have nuclear strike ability they are currently into space programs and there military hardware is 5th or 6th generation. Eventually they will claim what they believe is their right of ownership.

South Korea with a population of nearly 49 million compared to 23 million from N. Korea have the obvious advantage in numbers. What is concerning the world is from that 23 million about 4 million are ready,willing and able soldiers at a moments notice to strike. Keep in mind in any war, there are billions to be made and who do you think will be the first nation to supply the goods ?

I know I am very much in the minority on what I feel is the solution to this issue, but desperate times call for desperate measures. And this is very much a desperate time, because I desperately want nothing more than for everyone to just shut the hell up.

I am sick of the political posturing and the muscle flexing on both sides. I am sick of the indoctrinated national pride driven trash-talk flowing from the mouths of politicians on both sides. I am sick of the tired and reckless statements that quite simply amount to nothing more than a proclamation that "I have a bigger...gun...than you do!"

Just enough. Neither side has "balls", OK? All both sides do are make baseless threats, and all both sides do are torture and slaughter innocent civilians. There is nothing honorable nor brave about that.

Look, if you're going to go to war and mercilessly and remorselessly slaughter millions of people on both sides who had no dog in this fight and who are not in any way responsible for the childish blabbering of their leadership, then just do it and let these people rest in peace; that fate would certainly be a lot more enjoyable than living day after day with the constant fear that at any minute the boogeyman could crawl out from underneath your bed.

Otherwise, everyone...JUST - SHUT - UP!

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


Good Post, however, your way of things would be far to easy and less acceptable to the world. So its much easier to constantly create fear to pre occupy the citizens rather than allowing them to excel in other endeavor's.

But i must say, i almost split my coffee reading your post.

I know this is a stupid question, but why, besides he is a crazy little nut case, is defending countries from a madman's nukes a declaration of war...

Seriously!

Here's an idea. Next time KrazyKim wants to flex his arm in NK and display all their military men and equipment in the town square parade (certain to happen soon as a way to get even more of the NK public behind them) we drop a nuetron bomb (no fallout) dead center and watch the fireworks.

I still say that we hold true to a line in the sand... that is... Publicize the %$#@ out of the fact that now that they have demonstrated nuclear explosive capabilities, if ANY rocket leaves NK airspace - "weather" related or not - the US, Japan and SK will consider it an immediate act of war and we will retaliate to the fullest extent of our capabilities. It should go for Iran too. Start dropping the leaflets... get the NK non-military civilians out of harm's way as much as possible.

We need to inform China and Russia beforehand.

Got Iodine?

reply to post by Andre33


I bet both China and Russia would throw hissy fits over it.

We all assume that Russia and CHina are not directing little kimmies actions.

We all assume that China and Russia support putting little kimmy in his place, they don't

We can safely assume that if the US/Japan/NATO shoots down one of little kimmy's toys, it may leads to him doing something very stupid, and China /Russia don't want to see that, I think.
(this assumes that Russia and China are not using little kimmy to trap the US/NATO into another war.)

reply to post by mrmonsoon


I used to agree with that mrmonsoon, but I have to wonder if lil Kim isnt a pawn here. China backs NK last I checked. What would China and Russia stand to gain if we went to war? A few years ago I would have had the same mind set that I understand you to have.

A lot has changed, and right now I am very uncomfortable with what China and Russia could gain.

A pawn on the chess board is usually a small threat, but used correctly it can insure a checkmate.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
reply to post by mrmonsoon

 

I used to agree with that mrmonsoon, but I have to wonder if lil Kim isnt a pawn here. China backs NK last I checked. What would China and Russia stand to gain if we went to war?

A pawn on the chess board is usually a small threat, but used correctly it can insure a checkmate.

Think in global economic terms.

With the reunification of Korea there would be no reason or excuse for the US and the west to maintain forces in Korea. They were there to prevent the North from invading. Now that China is a business player and basically in bed with big business. They are no real threat. So in the long term view it would benefit everybody for North Korea to go the way of the dodo.

Good business is where you find it! Right now North Korea is a drag on China's drive for economic growth and NK threatens that with destabilizing the Asian business sector. That is not good for long term growth.

If China has been paying attention they will soon realize if they haven't already, the fact that the North simply has to go.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
If China is really on board with sanctions now, I would imagine that the rest of the world can simply starve them out. They can't feed themselves and they are desperate for a handout. Historically, China was able to keep them afloat but now they claim to be backing US led sanctions.

If we really try to starve them out, they could strike out as an act of desperation with the idea that it would be better / more honorable to die fighting. Or, it may buy us enough time for Kim Jong Il to die and perhaps his son will be more open to negotiations.

Time will tell. Right now though, I think we are waiting for Kim to play his hand. I think everything hinges on whether or not China is being sincere.

Based upon the shift of rhetoric, I'd say that Kim is no longer in power. The drums being taunted now are war drums of his generals. I think there was more damage from the stroke than they are leading to believe and the general are in full control of all apsects of the country. This is not a good thing, btw. The generals have been wanting a war for a long time to take back SK.

THe next few weeks shall be very, VERY interesting!!!!

North Korea doesn't want a part in this NWO Globalized bullsh*# they are being pushed into...I hope people realize as soon as NK is "taken" a World Bank will be set up there.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
I know this is a stupid question, but why, besides he is a crazy little nut case, is defending countries from a madman's nukes a declaration of war...

The NK pattern is create a crisis and push the West, when things heat up, go to the table and make demands.

Crazy thing is it works. They get all kinds of things from these negotiations such as heavy fuel oil and food. Then they let cool things down for a while and comply with the agreements, until they want something else and it starts all over again.

It nothing but extortion and banditry.


[edit on 6/11/09 by War Otter]

U.S. says North Korea unlikely to take military action

North Korea is unlikely to respond militarily to planned U.N. sanctions for its nuclear test, although the possibility should not be completely dismissed, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said on Thursday.

But he said Pyongyang was so unpredictable that it was probably "not wise" to dismiss out of hand North Korean threats of military action.

A Russian foreign ministry source, quoted by Itar-Tass news agency, took a similar line, saying Moscow did not expect the resolution to "whip up" the situation.

www.reuters.com...

It worth noticing that Chna has not even been mentioned in a single word. Does this non mention of China show such a gag order across the world as not to infuriate the Chinese Republic. It is also worth noticing that since China has accepted to take on most of the U.S. debt they have been protected from many news sources as to their human rights and previous actions. An obvious example was the anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre which received close to no media hype considering the then outrage which was fueled by all news medias sources across the world.

I guess its just another case that what benefits the few will always benefit the masses...( eventually )