Are 9/11 Official Story Proponents Really the Unpatriotic?

Originally posted by sayiamu
Then we can get operatives to infiltrate the "Ignorance" movement and make posts on blogs that make sense and lead in the right direction so that they get confused...start to question ... and finally see thru the media smokescreen.

The "ignorance" movement. Most definitely has a ring to it!

Thanks for the props. You got the exact nature of where I am coming from on this OP probably better than I did. Thanks.

reply to post by dodadoom


Funny that you would say that given your comments in the past.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
reply to post by esdad71

 

alright esdad, I took you off ignore. And mostly because you are a long time member here. Hate to do that to one of our own. But you better damn well take that stupid avatar you created off the ATS media portal NOW. That's total BS. If you don't you are going back on my list for good.

I don't understand you man. You are saying that you are defending yourself, and yet in the same breath say you don't believe the official story? And are still insisting that I am unpatriotic? Make up your mind, will ya?

Ok, let me break it down.

I am defending the fact that I am patriotic because that is what the OP is about. However, that does not mean i have to believe my government or what anyone else has to say. I have to process all sides of the argument and find the truth. There are 3 sides to each story, yours, hers and the truth.

I am not insisting you are unpatriotic, I am trying to inspire thought as to how you are expressing yourself ion your post. You called me unpatriotic for having a view opposite of yours in the title of your post. This was your battle that you started so you should be prepared to have someone try to provoke thought not anger.

I do not believe the official story of 93 and 587. I know people who were there that day who saw planes hit, saw the towers collapse and are still affected. One of them also is part of the NY movement for truth and he is difficult to be around not because if his belief but because it is all he talks about. I would never call him unpatriotic because he does love his country he just hates the government.

and once again, but your own afflication, you called me ignorant in a post...you are unbelieveable and for that the avatar should stay

[edit on 30-5-2009 by esdad71]

Despite what WE all say on a forum with alot of open minded people...in the real world you are unpatriotic/terrorist.Im reminded of a thread made by an American user just a week ago or so ago talking about being at a bar and talking about 9/11(inside job) then being asked if they were part of a terrorist organization! and very threatening body language.So no it is not unpatriotic,but you sure as hell are for the most part in the REAL world where media and propaganda rules over the majority of people.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by sayiamu
Then we can get operatives to infiltrate the "Ignorance" movement and make posts on blogs that make sense and lead in the right direction so that they get confused...start to question ... and finally see thru the media smokescreen.

The "ignorance" movement. Most definitely has a ring to it!

Thanks for the props. You got the exact nature of where I am coming from on this OP probably better than I did. Thanks.

Again, for the uneducated. Ignorance means to not be aware.. Maybe you should use a should use a word like apprenticed, benighted, birdbrained, blind to, cretinous, dense, green, illiterate, imbecilic, in the dark, inexperienced, innocent, insensible, mindless, misinformed, moronic, naive, nescient, oblivious, obtuse, shallow, thick, unconscious, unconversant, uncultivated, uncultured, uneducated, unenlightened, uninformed, uninitiated, unintellectual, unknowledgeable, unlearned, unlettered, unmindful, unread, unschooled, unsuspecting, untaught, untrained, unwitting, witless.

Choose the one that is the closest to what you mean. I would choose misinformed or maybe naive but I am NOT ignorant....

reply to post by TrueAmerican

Thank YOU. I originally read your post last night ... and looked forward to responding today ..when my fingers werent as fumbly....




I sense that you feel what I feel ... that its time to push this thing... I have noticed that if someone in the IGNORANCE MOVEMENT takes even a few moments to look at the physics of the event ...that the seed gets planted ..and even though they have that inherent "pie in the sky" hopefulness that the truth isnt true... they begin to come around...

so anyone who vehemently opposes this truth ... is a loony crackpot or a paid shill.

cmon folks we have to find a way to fight the power.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by esdad71

 

Um, might as well have been speaking Swahili friend. Can't expect rational arguments from people that write and partcipipate in self congraltory BS attack threads like this. "Their tribe smart and good! Your tribe stupid and bad!" pretty much sums up the mentality.

[edit on 30-5-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Here is some Swahili then....

Subira huvuta heri. "Patience pulls (i.e. attracts) success." Me not part of any tribe...can me join????

reply to post by esdad71


Inappropriate and insulting comments directed toward a member or their Vlog my result in immediate ATS account termination without warning or recourse.

Alright man, I tried. You are clearly against the T&C. Permanent ignore and alert will be sent.

reply to post by sayiamu


This is why the Truth movement has ZERO credibility. Post like this. It is sad really. Yes, we are now the Ignorance Movement because we are unaware of what...YOUR Truth? True ignorance is the one who is not aware of the enemy and does not think they are smarter but know they are smarter and stronger. Take the Soviets in Afghanistan as a modern example or the Romans if you are historically inclined. Your trust in your own conviction will come to light in a conversation one day and you will be embarrassed.

I am not an official story proponent either, i just want those who may not have seen both sides to see it. Has anyone who is posting here READ the 9/11 commission report or are the majority using the Cliff Notes version supplied by Alex Jones? I would really like to know....

Originally posted by esdad71
As far as those who give us the official story and those who torch paint chips as evidence of nano thermite

Looks as if you're trying to peddle disinfo there. Have you obtained a sample of the WTC dust and had it analyzed and proved it's just paint chips? Has anyone else done a complete lab work-up and shown that these chips are only paint chips? We would all like to see this study, otherwise you had better recant your statement or edit it to show that it's your opinion only.

Originally posted by esdad71
Steven Jones - out of work professor

Not "out of work", he's a retired professor and 20-year physicist.

Your physicist, Ted Hänsch, dealt with lasers only and is known for "Laser-based precision spectroscopy".

Dr. Stephen Jones is known for Muon-catalyzed fusion, metal-catalyzed fusion, archaeometry, solar energy and his backgrounds include atomic, molecular, and optical. Looking at the two together on Wiki, Dr. Jones far outweighs Hänsch in background, education and experience. Just because Hänsch has a quarter stake in a Nobel prize, doesn't make him smarter or more qualified than a very qualified and retired Dr. Steven Jones.

Originally posted by esdad71
James Fetzer - philosopher

Dr. Fetzer is not accepted by the greater 9/11 truth movement. His "theories' of no planes at the WTC and exotic weaponry, etc. are not supported by any 9/11 truth movement organization. Had you done any research into the 9/11 truth movement, you would know this.

Originally posted by esdad71
Hmmm....this looks like the Yankees vs the Devil Rays circa 2003

Nah, looks like you twisting facts around to support your denial instead of you telling the real and full truth.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I think a lot of these people are unpatriotic. But I think most of these people are simply delusional. They value the status quo. If the US government really did 9/11, that would so severely damage their world view they don't want to know about it. Of course while that is not unpatriotic, it is highly selfish of them.

When I first heard about the truth movement I was offended and thought these people were unamerican self-loathing liberals who were terrorist-sympathizers.

Then it somehow got to the point after getting tired of hearing the "nonsense" where I researched the issue from an unbiased viewpoint, being one who will hold the truth above all values at any cost. I have to be right. After a couple weeks of research I was very devastated because it was so obvious 9/11 was really not a Bin Ladin job as they were telling me and that was the Bin Ladin story was the real trash conspiracy theory without evidence.

But I was not unpatriotic I was just delusional, and possibly being selfish in some way.

Thanks Bone-z, at least you are thought provoking. My point was the not discredit all of the Truth movement but to show that those who worked towards the official story were more than qualified. I wanted to make a comparison. 2 Nobel prize winners is nothing to sneeze at.

Lets get this back on track though, shall we?

Bone_z, Asking straight up, do you feel I am ignorant for not following the Truth movement?am I unpatriotic? I won't report you no matter what is your reply.

Originally posted by esdad71
do you feel I am ignorant for not following the Truth movement?am I unpatriotic? I won't report you no matter what is your reply.

Unpatriotic, no. Ignorant, not sure. Close-minded, biased, yes.

In your mind, architects, engineers and physicists that support 9/11 truth are all wrong no matter how qualified they are. And architects, engineers and physicists that support the official story are all correct no matter how wrong they are. That is close-minded and/or bias based on your denial of not wanting to believe that 9/11 was an inside job no matter what the facts may be.

It's not necessarily a fault or flaw with you, it's just what you believe or want to believe.

However, when you say things such as "just paint chips" without a single source of proof or take the light away from a highly qualified man of physics, you are then making yourself out to be disingenuous and dishonest.

reply to post by truthquest


Understood.

But I did say official story proponents. Not everyone. It's important that distinction be made. I can't just accuse little old granny sitting in her rocking chair removed from all of this. It is not her I am after with this. I think it has become clear in this thread the types of people I am talking about. The kind that just can't accept all the research that has been done means we need a new, impartial investigation with real teeth, letting the chips fall where they may.

I have to go to work...Be on later tonight...

reply to post by _BoneZ_


I do not think they are all wrong or bad but it seems that ones that are the craziest are the ones that will get the most press. I am all for freedom of speech and open mindedness.

The paint chip, Ok, so maybe I should not refer to it as that but I read that report. Downloaded the pdf and read it. There was nothing conclusive. When I first saw the thread I thought, well, here it comes. OK, pieces people provided and do some tests and .... a spark jumped from the chip. That was the conclusion. If anything, I was let down.

It is not that I do not believe, it is that I do not see anything concrete. I have watched all the videos,and the Loose Change this and NWO that and there is nothing solid. Sorry, that is what I see. If someone showed me concrete proof, you know, took me into the room and showed me all the government secrets and this was in there, I would believe. Until now, it is not proven to me and trust me on this, I will always keep an open mind.

There will absolutely be no more discussion of other members in a derogatory fashion.

It is understood that this thread is implicitly result in the discussion of the patriotism of others but there is absolutely no need to deviate from civil discussion.

Future Staff action may include the closure of this thread.

Civility And Decorum Are Required on AboveTopSecret.com

reply to post by esdad71


LoL!
Tribes are best avoided on general principle. Thinking for one's self is key, if you ask me. Especially when they start spewing propanganda that has very little to do with facts and more than a little to do with downing those that disagree while making themselves feel better than the aforementioned. Doing that is also indicative of person at least knowing subconsciously that their stance lacks ability to stand on it's own. So they turn it into a polarized bickering match with camps.

I particularly love it when they lump anyone who argues with their stance no matter the argument into "believers of *whatever*" catagory then apply crap like this thread. Labels are simple yet the world for those who do not wish to realise life isn't that easy.

[edit on 30-5-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Edit: Off topic post removed.

[edit on 30-5-2009 by intrepid]

Edit: Off topic post removed.

[edit on 30-5-2009 by intrepid]