How To Add The Number Of The Beast, A Mystery Revealed

You are very confused. Firstly I could say that Bill Gates III is the Beast. If you add up Bills name in the ASCII Code, it too adds up to 666 and I don't believe Bill is the Beast. Second, I have stated several times and you have avoided answering the question of "How Can A Man Come Out Of The Bottomless Pit"
Could you please answer that ?

Can You just give me "ONE" verse of scripture "ANYWHERE" in the Bible that states or implies that men are confined to or ascend out of the Bottomles Pit ?

It is this " Beast Spirit " (A SPIRIT NOT A MAN) that will occupy a mans body and he is who we refer to when we say Anti-Christ.

Another point to mention is that the" Beast Spirit " is responsible for the destrution of the "First World" that existed before Adam and Eve.

2Pet 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the [standing: Gr. consisting]
heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 the world that then was, Whereby being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 � But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Jer 4:20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.
21 How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?
22 For my people is foolish , they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and lo,there was no man , and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate;yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

These verses clearly show that there was a civilization on the Earth before Adam and Eve

The Beast that was, and is, and shall come out of the bottomless pit is the "SPIRIT" that possessed the Ruler of the First World, which was thousands of years before Nero.
It is this SPIRIT that caused the destruction of the First World which is why it was sent to the bottomless pit. Men go to Hell, Sheol and the grave. Never once mentioned in the Bible does men go to the pit.
"The Bottomless Pit" is the abode of Wicked Spirits of the worst type

[edit on 12-11-2004 by Lastday Prophet]

It is you who is very confused. I'll try this once more, for some reason you just don't get it. Please open you spiritual eyes and let the word of God show you the truth. We will go back to Revelation 13:18

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Read the whole 13th chapter where it talks about the beast and then at the end of the chapter (verse 18) the Angel says that it is a man. So we know the beast is a man and his number adds up to 666.

Now lets go to chapter 17:8

8 The beast (man)that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast (man)that was, and is not, and yet is.

The Angel then says that the beast (man)was( before AD 96 when the Angel was telling him this) , is not ( is dead in AD 96 when the Angel is telling him this), and he SHALL ( future tense) ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT.
In the same verse it says they that dwell on the earth shall wonder( be astonished or startled) when they behold the beast (man) who was alive, was dead , and yet is alive.


Now we move on to the same chapter 17 to verses 10 and 11

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

He says five kings have already fallen ( are dead), one is ( he is king in when the Angel is telling him this) , and one is not yet come ( not here yet)


11 And the beast (man)that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition

And the beast (man) that was alive, is not alive, even he is the eighth king, and is one of the former seven kings.

this is the simple word of God showing us that the beast is a man who comes out of the bottomless pit to become the eighth king, yet is one of the former seven kings. He was alive before AD 96 ,was dead in AD 96 , and shall ascend OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT to become the eighth king.

The word of God does not lie so if you don't believe this, then take it up with God. He is the one who said the beast is a man that had lived ,died and is coming out of the bottomless pit as a king. Yet he was a former king.
I cannot make it any simpler than this. If you don't get it now then you never will. And my experience has been that those that don't get it just don't want to get it.

One more thing. Since John spoke aramaic , then 666 would have to be added up to that in aramaic language.

Read about the false prophet bringing fire down from heaven and the image of the beast(man) coming to life and blaspheming God. This is Satan in all his power.

I pray God will let you see the truth,
Durwood

[edit on 12-11-2004 by Durwood]

[edit on 12-11-2004 by Durwood]

[edit on 12-11-2004 by Durwood]

this is the simple word of God showing us that the beast is a man who comes out of the bottomless pit to become the eighth king, yet is one of the former seven kings. He was alive before AD 96 ,was dead in AD 96 , and shall ascend OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT to become the eighth king.

WRONG, nowhere does it imply that this beast is a man,nor does it imply that he was alive before AD 96, that is YOUR interpretation.

The bible says that the beast "Was"(existed on the earth in the distant past)

And "is" (that means that he is still alive)

which clearly proves that it is not Nero for you yourself have said that Nero "Died") so how could he still be alive.

And shall ascend out of the Bottomless Pit
Again, for the fifth time. Men Do Not Return To The Earth Once They Die, Only "SPIRITS". For Spirits were eternal from the beginning and this is why "SPIRITS" are confined to Pits and are Chained as seen throughout the Bible
What Part Don't You Understand ?

You prove that you truly lack wisdom and understanding, you could not even answer the question that I posed to you several times, You avoided answering it because you have not "ONE" scripture to back up your statement..
All you have is your misguided interpretation to which you have no scriptual support.

Provide some scriptures that show or infer a man coming out of the bottomless pit.
Actually I will give you some that prove your error
Nero was a Man, here is what happens to "MEN"

1Pet 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Ps 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Lu 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Ac 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Ac 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.


Jesus "Preached" (the gospel is for Men) to the Spirits (Of Men) that were in a "PRISON" (not the bottomless pit) The souls of Men go to HELL, which is what the beggar described in Lu 16:23

If "Hell" is the abode of wicked "MEN" which the above scriptures clearly show, how could Nero A MAN, come out of the bottomless pit ?

Please do not answer with those same verses that you have been misinterpreting.
Provide scripture as I have, that confirm your statements.

WRONG, nowhere does it imply that this beast is a man,nor does it imply that he was alive before AD 96, that is YOUR interpretation.

The bible says that the beast "Was"(existed on the earth in the distant past)

And "is" (that means that he is still alive)

which clearly proves that it is not Nero for you yourself have said that Nero "Died") so how could he still be alive.

And shall ascend out of the Bottomless Pit


PLEASE, USE YOUR HEAD HERE. WHEN DID THE ANGEL TALK TO JOHN ? IT WASN'T THIS WEEK. SO "IS" CAN'T POSSIBLY BE REFERRED TO AS TODAY. "WAS" MEANS SOMETIME BEFORE THE ANGEL TALKED TO JOHN, NOT THIS WEEK. THE ANGEL TALKED TO JOHN IN AD 96. WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT? I HAVE GIVEN YOU ALL THE PROOF THERE IS AND THE PROBLEM IS YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT IT. REREAD WHAT I HAVE ALREADY POSTED AND LET IT SINK IN. IT IS ALL THE TRUTH.

I see you will not address the issue of a MAN coming out of the bottomless pit, this alone shoots a big hole in your theory. By you not answering this proves that you have "NO" scripture to support your rediculous assumption. It is all in your mind only, and you have NO scripture to back up your claim. I have posted scripture that clearly state that MEN go to hell. If Men go to Hell, How can they ascend out of the bottomless pit. I am sure you will again avoid answering this and go off into some dates that have nothing to do with a man coming out of the bottomless pit, which means Nero could not come out of the bottomlesss pit for he was a MAN.

If you can not produce any scripture to prove your assumption, you are in error!
Provide your proof as I have

If not I am done with this, don't want to hear any more of your assumptions that have no facts in the Bible to back them up.

[edit on 13-11-2004 by Lastday Prophet]

Well I agree with Durwood here, for the most part, but not that the beast is Nero himself. To understand what Durwood is getting at, it is necessary to understand what the situation at the time was, and more specifically the Roman Caesars and their successor planning. However I start with Julius as the first and not Augustus. That actually leaves Nero as the sixth. Whether the number is actually, 666, 616 or 656 is irrelevant as it is obvious that the author(s) of Revelations engaged in heavy editing until they were satisfied with the document they wanted.

Beginning with Julius, succession to the praetorship was based on familial ties, so much so that where sons were not available, sons were adopted by marrying within the Julio-Claudio families. Even nephews and stepsons were adopted for this purpose. The line did manage to continue through these methods, but was briefly interrupted by a commoner. Galba #7.

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is (Nero) and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

"And the beast that was and is not, even he is the eighth- Nymphidius AD68-69, and is of the seven (Caesars), and goeth into perdition.

The Beast therefore is not Nero, or any particular Caesar, It was the Caesarian line from Julius' heritage. Galba was not related in any way, which explains the return of Caesar's bloodline, Nymphidius, as being of the seven.

Perdition-They all were deeply involved in assassinations in order to further the bloodline control, and with the exception of Augustus and Tiberius, all of them were murdered.

The ten horns relate to the Pro-Consuls and Praetors of the Roman empire. "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

Of note, Caligula reign is one of the most disturbing of that era, and lasted between 42 and 46 months.

You or durwood have yet to answer how a MAN can come out of the bottomless pit. If a man cannot come forth out of the bottomless pit your whole assumption is a error.

I challenge you and durwood to provide "ONE" scripture "ANYWHERE" in the bible that states that "MEN" are in the bottomless pit.

I have posted scripture that state that men are confined to "HELL"
Where are your Scriptures ?

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
You or durwood have yet to answer how a MAN can come out of the bottomless pit. If a man cannot come forth out of the bottomless pit your whole assumption is a error.

I challenge you and durwood to provide "ONE" scripture "ANYWHERE" in the bible that states that "MEN" are in the bottomless pit.

I have posted scripture that state that men are confined to "HELL"
Where are your Scriptures ?

Metaphor. The Bible is filled with them. The Book of Revelation while to some suggests a time to come, is believed by others, me included, that it was written during a time when Jews were being severely oppressed by the Roman empire, and was written in such a manner so as not to be understood by the enemy. It was a telling of a tale describing the corruption in Rome without placing the Jews at risk for speaking of their sedition.

The bottomless pit, is in fact the Caesaerian line, for it didn't matter whether or not there was an immediate heir, the Julio-Claudio Caesars as I have stated went to great lengths to find one, adopt them and continue the legacy. Hence, it is a bottomless pit, to be able to pluck an heir from any and everywhere.

Again, Your personal interpretation. You can use the bible when it states your assumptions, but when you are challenged you have no answers, it is a "Metaphor"
So that means your interpetation of Nero being the Beast could be a Metaphor also .

What a bunch of garbage, all you have is your misguided interpretation, no scriptual proof whatsoever.

I have not seen "ONE" verse anywhere that confirms your assumptions, what a joke. you guy's have "NO" " NONE" " ZERO " "ZEELCH" proof.



[edit on 13-11-2004 by Lastday Prophet]

That is funny when you say i offered no scriptural proof when i have shown you BY THE SCRIPTURES that he WILL be the eighth king and was one of the former seven. I showed you BY THE SCRIPTURES that it says he WILL COME OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT IN THE FUTURE. And i do NOT believe that to be a metaphor. You are gonna be in for a shock one day when he comes to power as the antichrist.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Well I agree with Durwood here, for the most part, but not that the beast is Nero himself. To understand what Durwood is getting at, it is necessary to understand what the situation at the time was, and more specifically the Roman Caesars and their successor planning. However I start with Julius as the first and not Augustus. That actually leaves Nero as the sixth. Whether the number is actually, 666, 616 or 656 is irrelevant as it is obvious that the author(s) of Revelations engaged in heavy editing until they were satisfied with the document they wanted.

Beginning with Julius, succession to the praetorship was based on familial ties, so much so that where sons were not available, sons were adopted by marrying within the Julio-Claudio families. Even nephews and stepsons were adopted for this purpose. The line did manage to continue through these methods, but was briefly interrupted by a commoner. Galba #7.

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is (Nero) and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

"And the beast that was and is not, even he is the eighth- Nymphidius AD68-69, and is of the seven (Caesars), and goeth into perdition.

The Beast therefore is not Nero, or any particular Caesar, It was the Caesarian line from Julius' heritage. Galba was not related in any way, which explains the return of Caesar's bloodline, Nymphidius, as being of the seven.

Perdition-They all were deeply involved in assassinations in order to further the bloodline control, and with the exception of Augustus and Tiberius, all of them were murdered.

The ten horns relate to the Pro-Consuls and Praetors of the Roman empire. "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

Of note, Caligula reign is one of the most disturbing of that era, and lasted between 42 and 46 months.

You seem to be wrong on the five kings as almost every place i have seen puts them in order i have them. Also where it talks about the ten horns being ten kings it is talking about 10 nations under nero is the tribulation. they give their authority to him. And do a thorough seach of nero and you will see that the early church taught he would come back as the antichrist. He is as far as i know the only king who was considered to be the antichrist.

Evidently Julious ceasar is not recognized because he was not of royal blood.
Website about the kings
www.friesian.com...

Another website about the kings
www.britannia.com...

[edit on 13-11-2004 by Durwood]


[edit on 13-11-2004 by Durwood]

[edit on 13-11-2004 by Durwood]

You still have yet to post any proof that MEN, can come out of the bottomless pit, the rest of your arguement is useless until you have proven such.
Mere Speculation and Assumptions

I quess you can't read this part
Post scriptures that show a MAN ascending out of the bottomless pit, can you read ? answer this and quit avoiding this critical issue.

[edit on 13-11-2004 by Lastday Prophet]

I have shown it and shown it. You can't show something to a blind person i guess. This is the last time. I could show this to a five year old and they would get it.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Read the whole 13th chapter where it talks about the beast and then at the end of the chapter (verse 18) the Angel says that it is a man. So we know the beast is a man and his number adds up to 666.

Now lets go to chapter 17:8

8 The beast (man)that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast (man)that was, and is not, and yet is.

The Angel then says that the beast (man)was( before AD 96 when the Angel was telling him this) , is not ( is dead in AD 96 when the Angel is telling him this), and he SHALL ( future tense) ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT.
In the same verse it says they that dwell on the earth shall wonder( be astonished or startled) when they behold the beast (man) who was alive, was dead , and yet is alive.


Now we move on to the same chapter 17 to verses 10 and 11

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

He says five kings have already fallen ( are dead), one is ( he is king in when the Angel is telling him this) , and one is not yet come ( not here yet)


11 And the beast (man)that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition

And the beast (man) that was alive, is not alive, even he is the eighth king, and is one of the former seven kings.

this is the simple word of God showing us that the beast is a man who comes out of the bottomless pit to become the eighth king, yet is one of the former seven kings. He was alive before AD 96 ,was dead in AD 96 , and shall ascend OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT to become the eighth king.


WHAT ARE THE FACTS?

FACT 1 - THE ANGEL SAID THE BEAST IS THE NUMBER OF A MAN REV 13:18


FACT 2 - HE WAS ALIVE BEFORE THE ANGEL WAS TALKING TO JOHN , BUT NOT ALIVE WHILE THE ANGEL WAS TALKING TO JOHN, AND IS GONNA ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT ( FUTURE TENSE ). AND THEIR CONVERSATION TOOK PLACE IN A.D.96


FACT 3 - HE WILL BE THE EIGHTH KING AND WILL BE ONE OF THE FORMER SEVEN KINGS. WHICH THE ONLY WAY THAT CAN HAPPEN IS IF YOU COME BACK FROM THE DEAD OR THE BOTTOMLESS PIT WHICH IS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS IS GONNA HAPPEN.

I AM TIRED OF HAVING MY INTELLIGENCE INSULTED BY SAYING I HAVEN'T PROVIDED PROOF THAT THE BIBLE SAYS THAT YOU CAN'T COME BACK FROM THE DEAD. I HAVE SHOWN YOU WHAT THE WORD OF GOD SAYS. THESE AREN'T MY WORDS. YOU SERIOUSLY NEED A NAME CHANGE WHEN YOU CAN'T DISCERN SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS THIS. I WILL RESPOND NO MORE TO YOU SAYING I NEED TO PROVE IT. I HAVE PROVED IT TIME AND TIME AGAIN AND THIS IS THE LAST TIME.

FACT 1 - THE ANGEL SAID THE BEAST IS THE NUMBER OF A MAN REV 13:18

This is exactly what I am talking about, you twist the scripture to suit your means. this is what that verse says:

Re 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

It does not say "the Beast is the Number of a Man" It says The "NUMBER OF THE BEAST IS THE NUMBER OF A MAN" And the "MANS" Number is 666

Get your facts correct.

You still avoid answering the question of how a Man ascend from the bottomless pit.

As the scripture clearly shows, HELL is the abode of MEN, where does it asy anywhere in the bible that men are in the bottomless pit.

This is the end of this detour, either post your scriptures or quit. Rev 17 does not state that a man will come out of the bottomless pit, it says the Beast will.
It is you that is trying to make it say what it does not say. It says "The Beast" not "The Man" or "Nero" will ascend out of the bottomless pit

[edit on 13-11-2004 by Lastday Prophet]

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet

FACT 1 - THE ANGEL SAID THE BEAST IS THE NUMBER OF A MAN REV 13:18

This is exactly what I am talking about, you twist the scripture to suit your means. this is what that verse says:

Re 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

It does not say "the Beast is the Number of a Man" It says The "NUMBER OF THE BEAST IS THE NUMBER OF A MAN" And the "MANS" Number is 666

Get your facts correct.

You still avoid answering the question of how a Man ascend from the bottomless pit.

As the scripture clearly shows, HELL is the abode of MEN, where does it asy anywhere in the bible that men are in the bottomless pit.

This is the end of this detour, either post your scriptures or quit. Rev 17 does not state that a man will come out of the bottomless pit, it says the Beast will.
It is you that is trying to make it say what it does not say. It says "The Beast" not "The Man" or "Nero" will ascend out of the bottomless pit

[edit on 13-11-2004 by Lastday Prophet]

I'm sorry that you are so dense that you can't see the truth. I'm done here. I'm gonna go play with my 2 year old granddaughter. She has more wisdom than you do. Time will prove me right.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
Again, Your personal interpretation.

And your personal interpretation is better than mine is it? Why is that exactly? Such disdain in your posts suggests you have been confronted with a truth you do not wish to know. That is exactly why the truth behind the Bible, the secrets contained within, the libraries of the Hebrew and Christian elite are hidden. The vast majority would not know how to handle this. The moral compass would be broken. Man would revert to being barbaric. Order would become chaos.

You can use the bible when it states your assumptions, but when you are challenged you have no answers, it is a "Metaphor"

Unless you expect to find a red dragon in the end times, or a beast, or either of them wearing crowns or horns, then they are metaphors. But my interest is piqued. is that exactly what you expect to see? Do tell. I really wish to know.

So that means your interpetation of Nero being the Beast could be a Metaphor also .

That is what metaphors are about. Per the OED; An application of a word or a phrase to something that it does not apply to literally. Now I have given you a reasoned analysis of this beast and "666" not just because I pulled something out of the air, but because I have not relied on the Bible as my sole historical context for those times. I know you have though. Despite that, your only rebuttal is to call into question my deciphering of the metaphors by invoking rudimentary dismissal without providing your own reasoned hypothesis as to why you think I am incorrect. And that is supposed to convince me that your shallow interpretation is correct? Provide some substance please.

What a bunch of garbage, all you have is your misguided interpretation, no scriptual proof whatsoever.

Well that dismissal convinces me. And your interpretation is backed by whom? The unknowns who are presumed to have written Revelation? Do you have affidavits? A video? Anything? Even a reasonable assessment of the book itself, save for; and some guy by the name of John, who is published in the Bible says so?

I have not seen "ONE" verse anywhere that confirms your assumptions, what a joke. you guy's have "NO" " NONE" " ZERO " "ZEELCH" proof.

Seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you. How is that?

If you truly Seek truth, then do yourself a favour. First acquire an open mind. Then prepare to engage in reading some writings as though they were a history lesson. Next, in this order, read:

Matthew
Luke
Acts
Both Corinthians

Pay very close attention to the names, occupations and backgrounds of those referenced.

Then read

Maccabees I and II.

Immediately cross-reference the names in the first four I mention with those of Maccabees. You will likely not notice one very important figure in Maccabees, so then read it again, then again, I Corinthians 3:5. Stop there and immediately go to: Revelation 9:11. See what name smacks you between the eyes, then read all of Paul's works again. When you are through, get your fingers working and engage in ancient Greek history. Be sure to remember all the names and backgrounds of those you have come across.

Next, empty your house of any distractions, get out your rosary, your candles, and your sage. Then slowly read the writings of Josephus Flavius; The Infancy Gospel of Thomas, then the Infancy Gospel of Matthew.

Sit back and open your mind, you will be exalted if you do. For it is then you will realise when you place all of the names and their history in perspective, how you have been deceived. But fear not my friend, for as much as I would have rathered lead you gently to this place with all the posts I have made, and not directly as in the above, I remind you that within the scriptures there is truth still, and within them is caution to exercise your God-given inate abilities of reason over succumbing to blind direction.

When all is said and done, you might wish to study the Roman Caesars from Julius to Vitellius, and if you still feel that mine is "a bunch of garbage" then you can feel free to refute me based on knowledge now in command, not vacuous dismissal... or not.

One of us is correct. I have invoked the dormant imprint of knowledge granted man so that I may tap into the truth supplanted within us by the creator himself, and not the aberrant liturgies of zealous popes, archbishops, deacons or their atypical scribes whose only interest is mind control through fear, lies and deception, and a want for power.

The gig is up! This is not the year 2004, at the very least it is the year 2010, and the planets that we know of outnumber 7. The Book of Revelation has come and gone, and all we have to hold onto is the premise that there is a power mightier than us. It is after all, probably the only doctrine of faith manknd actually embraces.


[edit on 11/13/04 by SomewhereinBetween]

Originally posted by DurwoodYou seem to be wrong on the five kings as almost every place I have seen puts them in order i have them.

I take no issue with your order, I merely place Julius at the top, above Augustus. The issue here boils down to whether Julius did in fact exist. To determine that, one needs to look at how history represents Octavius( Augustus). Plus, we already know that Cleopatra and Antony have a historical basis. To dismiss Julius, is to dismiss Augustus and Caligula.

Also where it talks about the ten horns being ten kings it is talking about 10 nations under nero is the tribulation. they give their authority to him. And do a thorough seach of nero and you will see that the early church taught he would come back as the antichrist. He is as far as i know the only king who was considered to be the antichrist.

That may be so, however, I prefer to draw my own conclusions based upon what I know and not what other interpretations are. For example, I have no use of the early chuch, or any church, as that removes me from being an independent thinker, and especially since I have come to determine the early church did set out to rewrite history. In addition, the unearthed manuscripts, when balanced against the knowledge of the various religious councils and their heavy leaning by any one set of theological doctrines to suppress or promote information to their favour, solidifies my scepticism. were I to lean in favour of one side, I would view the information with biased eyes.

Evidently Julious ceasar is not recognized because he was not of royal blood.
Website about the kings
www.friesian.com...

As opposed to what previous royal blood? The historical references for the Caesars are documeted a spertains to their obsession with bloodline.

Another website about the kings
www.britannia.com...

Once more I have no issue with your rule, only with who was the first ruler.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

Originally posted by DurwoodYou seem to be wrong on the five kings as almost every place I have seen puts them in order i have them.

I take no issue with your order, I merely place Julius at the top, above Augustus. The issue here boils down to whether Julius did in fact exist. To determine that, one needs to look at how history represents Octavius( Augustus). Plus, we already know that Cleopatra and Antony have a historical basis. To dismiss Julius, is to dismiss Augustus and Caligula.

Almost all that i have read lists nero as fifth just like i showed you. I knew julius was before them. But, evidently when you talk about roman emperors then this is the time frame they give you. I have seen where Julius was not recongnized because of his bloodline. You can take it for what it's worth. There were four kings in the year after nero , but the bible doesn't recognize them and only says one will last a short time. Since the bible doesn't list it's qualifications of who it recognizes then i will have to only speculate. I will leave it at that.

Also where it talks about the ten horns being ten kings it is talking about 10 nations under nero is the tribulation. they give their authority to him. And do a thorough seach of nero and you will see that the early church taught he would come back as the antichrist. He is as far as i know the only king who was considered to be the antichrist.

That may be so, however, I prefer to draw my own conclusions based upon what I know and not what other interpretations are. For example, I have no use of the early chuch, or any church, as that removes me from being an independent thinker, and especially since I have come to determine the early church did set out to rewrite history. In addition, the unearthed manuscripts, when balanced against the knowledge of the various religious councils and their heavy leaning by any one set of theological doctrines to suppress or promote information to their favour, solidifies my scepticism. were I to lean in favour of one side, I would view the information with biased eyes.


The ten horns isn't my interpetation, it is what the Angel told John
Rev. 17:12

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.


Daniel 7:24

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Evidently Julious ceasar is not recognized because he was not of royal blood.
Website about the kings
www.friesian.com...

As opposed to what previous royal blood? The historical references for the Caesars are documeted a spertains to their obsession with bloodline.

Another website about the kings
www.britannia.com...

Once more I have no issue with your rule, only with who was the first ruler.

ALL of that and I have yet to see "ONE" scripture that proves that a "MAN" can occupy or ascend out of the bottomless pit, but I am the one in error.
I posted several scriptures that prove that MEN go to Hell, but I am the one in error.
You have not posted anything to confirm that the Beast is a Man, as you, PURE SPECULATION, yes maybe you should go play with your granddaughter, you might learn something. You have not proven anything other than that The Beast will ascend out of the pit. You have only posted the same verses over and over, no conformation verses whatsoever because you have "NONE" If I am the one that is wrong Post The Verses that back up your claim. All you have done is twist the verses in Rev 17 to suit your case.
You are doing the right thing, leave now to avoid further embarassment, anyone who reads this post can clearly see that you have not posted any verses to back up your claim.

[edit on 14-11-2004 by Lastday Prophet]

You can't figure this verse out that he is talking about a man?


King james

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.



NIV bible

18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

It does say it calls for wisdom though .

I honestly doubt your ability to interpret scriptures if you can't figure out something as simple as this. Not an attack on you , ...just an observation

Take and show this verse to your Pastor or a bible scholar or anybody else and see how they interpret it.

Rev 17:10-11

0 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

In case you don't know it , Kings are people.

Without a doubt the beast is a person

Quit letting your beliefs keep you from the truth.



[edit on 14-11-2004 by Durwood]