How To Add The Number Of The Beast, A Mystery Revealed

Yes. But we must remember that since they didn't have much calculators, they used geometry in art based on really advanced systems of shapes, angles, proportions etc. They didn't have separate numerals, every letter of the alfabet were given numerical values, and the languages were designed so they also did math while writing. Something which must have been quite a sport, atleast when reading stuff like Homer etc. some of those passages are pure number calculations.

And also remember that they didn't always use the ten number system we do. This results in some rather bizarre stuff. Immagine a base seven system everything is counted by multiplums of seven and some. See?

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Camelop�rdalis]

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
Camel, Jez, give us some examples using your system of numbering.

Well, basically, ascii is a system of nines. Any sentance with 74 characters, spaces, dots, commas etc. included, adds up to 666 bits in ascii. Im just saying that you twink your head if you start thinking about what adds up to 666. Try rather to find whatever adds up to 2846. Could be fun. Did you know that 216,216216216216...X666=144,000? The first level of God's name (the original 72 constellations in the first Heaven Elohim created before he turned on the lights for the first time down here), is a name of 72 characters. The Trinity, has three gods: Father, Son and Holy Ghost: That's three Heavens: Creator, Created King, Future God. 72X3=216. 216X666.666666666....=144,000. The Trinity is Satanic. It promises salvation through the 666 system and limited astrology, since there are way many more Heavens than three.

The Messiah alone is represented in the Highest heaven by four Seraphim, a Sitting King, a Lamb and the Spirit, represented by a Prophetic Scroll (the Word, the Name of God). That's seven, plus the two witnesses and their two forms, that's 11, sorry 13, then there comes 72 arch angels, the Berit Cherubims. Then the 24 scribes and their servants. And don't get me started on the choir, I just go on and on. God can only be minimised one way. God is One. God is Love. He is not the Father, not the Son, not even the Holy Spirit. They all depend on one thing: LOVE. Punktum finale. Simple. Even the Father, he's a servant of God. Jesjuah, when visible for us to see him, is merely a servant. When he's away, up in Heaven, he is the God of the King, for Jesjuah opens the pathway for the King, so Love can exist between them. Guess you could say that the Holy Spirit is Love, but I would hate to limit the Spirit of God in any way, therefore I won't call it names and stuff.

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Camelop�rdalis]

Well put, previous poster...Been trying to get my "pseudo padawans" to understand that very aspect for a minute...God is unconditional love, no need to confuse yourself with the details of such unless you're intending to do work with it...

Besides, in my study of the bible and her mysteries, I think that the Great Beast, and the 666 bit is a mistranslation/misunderstanding for the most part...Heh...The mark of the beast isn't what it used to be....

Shine,
AYHJA

Regarding 666 and 616

NEWSFLASH: There are TWO NUMBERING SYSTEMS according to the Greek manuscript copies of the "Apocalypse of Yohanon the Elder" (aka The "Book of Revelation")

Just a couple points of fact....for those curious among you about Hebraic Gematrial sigla....and to point out the dangers of "guessing randomly in the dark" about Manuscripts and their Meanings.

Don't forget "the book of Revelation" was written during the Jewish Revolt (AD 66-72) and was RE-WRITTEN several times before it barely got voted in at the Western Church Councils: it was regarded as heretical for nearly 300 years, and no one even knows who wrote the rotten Greek in the book.

The 666 (or 616) gemmatrial section in chapter 13:18 is a MARGINALIUM(i.e. words scribbled into the margin, later copied into the body of the text, = someone wrote it into the text AFTER the text was already circulating in other versions).

This accounts for the fact that there are TWO NUMEROLOGICAL SYSTEMS (666/616).

which reflect TWO distinct MSS families were circulating in the ancient world each with a different gematria).

So it depends on what MSS copy you are looking at to determine whether the number of the "Beast" ("which is the Number of a Man") is either 616 or 666.

See Codex Alexandrinus (A) and Codex Ephraemi (C) and the newly discovered Papyrus "P115/POxy4499" all of which prefer the gemmatrial 616 to the more familiar 666 of Sinaiticus or Bezae or Vaticanus etc.

Significantly, P115 aligns with A and C in its textual witness, which are generally regarded as providing the best testimony to the original text of Revelation.

Thus, the very early Papyrus 115 has superior testimony to that of P47 which aligns with the text of C and together form the second-best witness to the socalled Book of Revelation.

Deciphering the grammatical "howlers" in the confused and childish Greek of the Apocalypse of Yohanon ("Book of Revelation") has been problematic for serious researchers since the book seems to be a very crude translation an originally Jewish document written in Hebrew and Aramaic (mixed like the Book of Daniel) quoting excerpts from the Plagues of Exodus, midrashic snippets from Joel, Malachi, Jeremiah, Hezekiel chapter 39, the "Liturgical Psalms" (Specifically the exact specific Psalms sung in the 2nd Temple each day of the week is fully represented in the book as we have it), Deutero-Zechariah and Proto and Trito Isaiah (ch 56-66).

Also:

PLEASE DO TAKE NOTE that the specific word "Anti-Christ" does NOT appear in ANY KNOWN TEXT of the so-called Book of Revelationl, despite what most "Christians" believe.

It derives from the school who wrote I, 2 and 3 John (i.e. attributed to the Nazorean circle of "John the Elder", whoever he was...)

Nor does the word "Anti-Christ" have anything literally (i.e. in the text) to do with either the number 666 or 616, which is listed as the "Number of the Beast" in the marginalia (i.e. added to the book in the margin, not orginally part of the text).

If any of you want to play "gematria" with this marginalium, and need a little help with your Hebrew numerology... "here is Wisdom: "

LETTERS v NUMBERS

aleph = 1 beth = 2 gimmel = 3 daled = 4 heh = 5 vav =6 zayin = 7 chet = 8 tet = 9 yud =10 kaph =20 lamed =30 mem =40
nun = 50 samech = 60 q'ayin = 70 phe = 80 tsadeh = 90 quph = 100 resh = 200 sin/shin = 300 tav = 400

Any "solution" to the Number of the Beast would have to satisfy BOTH 616 and 666.

The Hebrew for "Nero Caesar" (NRO/N QSR) fits the bill nicely (he was the reigning Roman Emperor during AD 67-68 i.e. during the failed 1st Jewish Revolt) and his name in Hebrew was written variously as: NRON QSR (666) and NRO QSR (616).

Apparently the writers of the Book were trying to get believers to think they had some chance of defeating "Babylon" i.e. the Roman Empire.

As it happens....they were wrong.

Moreover the "book" has no relevance to modern times, but is merely a witness to messianic and eschatalogical expectations (foolhardy though they were) during no less than TWO failed attempts to break the yoke of the Roman Empire in Palestine.

Thought to self, "Don't tell anyone but there is something slightly wrong with the topic in this room"
"If I just slowly quietly back out of the room perhaps no one will notice"
"I had so hoped this would be a relevant thread like 'how many angels can dance on the head of a pin'"

smiling benignly, I back my way to the exit.

OK, I'm gonna prove to you by the word of God that the antichrist (beast) is Nero Caesar. Please pay close attention. It is really simple going by the descriptions the bible gives. Two things are very important to remember and they are that John has the revelation in AD 96 and that Johns native language is Aramiac and the book of Revelation was originally written in Aramaic. With all that in mind we proceed to Revelations Chapter 17:8. John has seen the beast but doesn't know what he saw. So the Angel tells him.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Remember it is AD 96.

What the Angel just told him is that the beast was ( before AD 96) and is not,
( not alive in AD 96) , and will ascend out of the bottomless pit.(in the future)

So we know the beast was before AD 96, was dead in AD 96 and in the future will come out of the bottomless pit.

Here is the same verse in the new international bible

8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction.

Crystal clear so far.

More hints of who he is in the same chapter , verses 10 and 11

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Here he tells John that the beast is the eighth king, but is one of the former seven kings. That is crystal clear too.

But the biggest hint is where it says " five are fallen" which means they were dead BEFORE AD 96 and since we know that the beast was BEFORE AD 96 ,then we know that he HAS to be one of these kings.

I'm probably over my 500 word limit , so i'll add more later.

Durwood

Nero is not the Beast, we have already discussed this in a different post. Nero was never raised from the dead, never worshipped by the world as God, never commanded a mark to be given in the right hand or forehead, never had an associate the second Beast, The False Prophet. Never called down fire from heaven, never did any wonders, never stood in God's temple claiming to be God, never caused the locust with the faces of men and tails like scorpions to torture men during his reign, did not appear on the earth at a time that "Knowledge Would Be Increased And Many Would Run To And Fro" No Nero is not the Beast.

Nero shows himself in the future as the beast like the bible says, he comes out of the bottomless pit. You have him in the past and the bible clearly states he comes out of the bottomless pit in the future. The bible says he is the eighth king and is one of the seven. Which means this king rules twice. You don't know your bible.

[edit on 9-11-2004 by Durwood]

The Beast has not come on the earth yet and Nero is DEAD, so how can he be the Beast ?

Read what the bible says. That is what i posted. It says that the beast was alive BEFORE AD96 , then was dead in AD 96, and in the future would come out of the bottomless pit. Of course he is dead now. Please read my post on it.
It is a fact that the early church taught that nero would come back from the dead as the antichrist.

Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Men once in the bottomless pit, do not return. Further only spirits are cast into the bottomless pit, men are sent to hell and they do not return from there.

So explain to me how Nero a Man can come out of the bottomless pit ?

Also this verse does not say or infer that Nero was that Beast, I could just as easily say that it was Judas Iscariot. There are no scriptures anywhere that confirm or suggest that Nero is or was the Beast.

If you have scriptures that state this , post them. Don't send me on a wild goose chase trying to find facts that don't exist. post your facts.

Wow, please read what the bible says. It is very plain in saying that the beast will ascend out of the bottomless pit.

Rev, 17:8

8 The BEAST that thou sawest was, and is not; and SHALL ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

new international version

8 The BEAST, which you saw, once was, now is not, and WILL COME UP OUT OF THE ABYSS and go to his destruction.


The world will wonder ( be startled) when they see the BEAST that was alive, then dead, and yet lives.

It doesn't get any plainer then that. Let the word of God be true and every man a liar!

And i'm not done yet, so i'll show you it is nero.
[edit on 9-11-2004 by Durwood]

[edit on 9-11-2004 by Durwood]

Rev 13:18

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

It says here the beast is the number of a man. So we know the beast is a man who comes out of the bottomless pit.

Here is part 2

OK, we have established that the antichrist had to live before 96 A.D and that he was dead in 96 A.D. Now we look for more information that the bible would have on him. More information is given on him in REV:17 8-11. We saw in verse 8 already that he was,is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit. Verses 10 and 11 give us more clues.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Verses 10 and 11 give us the biggest clues so far. Once again verses 10 and 11.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

What these verses are saying is that he is a king. Not only that, but he will be the eighth king, but was one of the former seven kings. That is crystal clear and i hope everybody sees that. Please read it again so you understand it.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

The kings that interest us are the ones where it says " five are fallen", which means they were dead BEFORE 96 A.D.

The reason that interest us is because the Beast had lived before 96 A.D, so he has to be one of those five that were before 96 A.D.

So far what we know about the antichrist is this.

1-He is a man

2- He had to live before 96A.D. and will come out of the bottomless pit in the future.

3- He was a king who lived before 96 A.D. and he is also gonna be king again. ( The eighth king the bible says).

This narrows it down to where it HAS TO BE one of the five kings who lived BEFORE A.D. 96. So of all the billions and billions of people who have ever or will ever live, there are only 5 candidates who can be the antichrist. AND his number must add up to 666.

Here is the New international version of chapter 17,verse 8.

8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

part 3 is where i show it is nero for sure.

[edit on 9-11-2004 by Durwood]

What part don't you understand ? Men once in Hell don't come back.
The bottomless pit is the abode of "SPIRITS" not men.

The bible does not say what year the Beast once was on the earth, so who are you to set a date like 96 AD, where is your proof that this was the time of the Beast's first reign ?

Further, the same verses you posted state that the Beast/Anti-Christ would be the eighth, there is no mention of him being a earlier King, so it could not possibly be Nero for he already lived as a King.



[edit on 9-11-2004 by Lastday Prophet]

Please , you need some reading skills. What part don't you understand? The word of God says he will come out of the bottomless pit. The new international version says the abyss. The bible says the beast is the number of a man. Whether you want to believe it or not it is a fact that he comes out of the bottomless pit. Call the word of God a liar if you want, but i believe it. It says the world will wonder( be astonished, startled, according to some translations) about the beast that was alive and then dead and then lives again. That is how he will deceive the world. . Please read everything. Pull out your bible and read it yourself. Don't take my word for it.

Rev 13:18 says the beast is the number of a man , so we know the beast is gonna be a man.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. (666)


We get a description of the beast in rev 17
Rev 17:8-13

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Ok, lets look at verse 8 again and we are keeping in mind that it is A.D 96. that the Angel is talking to John.

8 The beast that thou sawest was,( BEFORE AD 96) and is not; (NOT IN AD 96)and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,( SOMETIME AFTER AD96) and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The new international bible on chapter 17:8

8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

So the beast was before AD 96, dead in AD 96, and shall (future reference) ascend from the bottomless pit. And it says the world will wonder ( be startled) about the beast that was (lived) ,was not (had died) yet will come( lives again).

So we know without a doubt that the beast is a man who lived before AD 96, was dead in AD 96 , and is gonna come out of the bottomless pit.
The bible clearly teaches this.

So we move on to find what else the bible says about him.

Still in rev. chapter 17 verses 10-11 we find more information about him.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

This is crystal clear that the bible says he is the eighth king, but is one of the seven former kings. But , what interests us is where it says "five are fallen" because that means they were dead in AD 96 when the Angel is telling this to John. And since we know that the antichrist was dead before AD 96, then we know he is one of the five fallen kings. So of all the billions and billions of people who have lived or will ever live. The antichrist has to be one of these five.

Who are the five kings before AD 96

The five Roman kings before A.D. 96 are

(1) Augustus 31 B.C.-A.D.14
(2) Tiberius A.D.14-A.D.37
(3) Caligula A.D.37-A.D.41
(4) Claudius A.D.41-A.D.54
(5) Nero A.D.54-A.D.68

So it has to be one of these five and his name must add up to 666 in Aramaic which was Johns native tongue and the language that revelation was originally written in.

Nero Caesar in aramaic is spelled NRON KSR. Aramaic letters have numeral values like roman numerals.
N= 50
R=200
O= 6
N= 50
K=100
S= 60
R=200
666
The early church taught that nero would come out of the bottomless pit and be the antichrist.

What do we know about the antichrist?

He had to be alive BEFORE AD 96 and nero was

He had to be dead in AD 96 and nero was

He had to be one of the fallen kings BEFORE AD 96 and nero was

His name has to add up to 666 in Aramaic which was Johns native language and neros does

The bible says that the antichrist is healed of a fatal head wound and nero had committed suicide with a sword to the neck.

The bible says he will come out of the bottomless pit

nero is considered to be the most cruel dictator who has ever lived.

I have more proof ,but that is enough for now.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
What part don't you understand ? Men once in Hell don't come back.
The bottomless pit is the abode of "SPIRITS" not men.

The bible does not say what year the Beast once was on the earth, so who are you to set a date like 96 AD, where is your proof that this was the time of the Beast's first reign ?

Further, the same verses you posted state that the Beast/Anti-Christ would be the eighth, there is no mention of him being a earlier King, so it could not possibly be Nero for he already lived as a King.

[edit on 9-11-2004 by Lastday Prophet]

It says he is the eighth king and is ONE OF THE SEVEN. Read it. Every bible scholar believes Johns revelation takes place in AD 96, so everything the Angel tells him works around that date. I don't know what is so hard to understand what i have said so far.

Originally posted by Sum1
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,

Hey is there and egypt sphinks connection here or is this just me



[edit on 10/11/2004 by drbryankkruta]

DUR, you should do some reading, explain to me how a MAN can come out of the bottomless pit.

Second, you still did not provide any scriptures that state that the Beast went into the bottomless pit at 96 AD.

This is the end of this convo, this post is about the "NUMBERS OF THE BEAST"
If you want to discuss nero being the Beast, do a post on it. I will not discuss it any further here in this post. thank-you

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
DUR, you should do some reading, explain to me how a MAN can come out of the bottomless pit.

Second, you still did not provide any scriptures that state that the Beast went into the bottomless pit at 96 AD.

This is the end of this convo, this post is about the "NUMBERS OF THE BEAST"
If you want to discuss nero being the Beast, do a post on it. I will not discuss it any further here in this post. thank-you

You say this post is about the numbers of the beast? Than surely you would want to know whose number it is. Nero Ceaser is the beast. His number IS 666 in Aramaic which is what revelation was originally written in.

OK, you don't have to post on it anymore but i will answer your question about AD 96. I never said the the beast went into the bottomless pit in AD 96. He was already in the pit before then. Pay close attention please.
Johns revelation was in AD 96. You got that so far. That is where the AD 96 comes from. Now The Angel talks about the beast and says that it is the number of a man. SO, we know that the beast they are talking about here is a man. So you are with me , right. Two things we have just established. Point 1-that the revelation of John was in AD 96, THUS when the Angel is talking to him it is AD 96. Point 2- the beast they are talking about is a man. Now lets go where the Angel is talking about the beast in chapter 17:8

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

He just told john in AD 96 that the beast he saw was , is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit. In other words the beast was before AD 96, wasn't in AD 96 ,and will ascend out of the bottomless pit.

Here is the same scripture verse in the new international bible
Remember, it is AD 96 when the Angel is telling John this,

8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction.

That is plain as day that he is coming out of the bottomless pit in the future.
I didn't say it. The Angel told John that.

It also says the world will wonder ( astonished or startled) about the beast that was (alive), was not (had died) and yet is (is alive again)

Ok, lets move on to the same chapter 17, only verses 10 and 11 this time.
Remember, it is still AD 96 when the Angels shows him this.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Let's break down verses 10 and 11 now. He just told John in AD 96 that there are seven kings, five are dead in AD 96 and one is alive in AD 96 and the other has not come yet in AD 96.

Then he tells John in AD 96 that the beast that was alive before AD 96, and was dead in AD 96 , that he will be the eighth king, and yet is one of the former seven kings.

In order for him to be the eighth king and be one of the former seven kings, then he would have to come back from the dead.

The Angel has already told John that the beast was BEFORE AD 96, so when he talks about the kings and says five are fallen ( dead BEFORE AD 96) , then we know the beast has to be one of these fallen kings BEFORE AD 96 .

The five Roman kings before A.D. 96 are

(1) Augustus 31 B.C.-A.D.14
(2) Tiberius A.D.14-A.D.37
(3) Caligula A.D.37-A.D.41
(4) Claudius A.D.41-A.D.54
(5) Nero A.D.54-A.D.68

So, it has to be one of these AND his name Has to add up to 666 in Johns native language of Aramaic.

Nero Caesar in aramaic is spelled NRON KSR. Aramaic letters have numeral values like roman numerals.
N= 50
R=200
O= 6
N= 50
K=100
S= 60
R=200
666

It is also a fact that the early church taught that nero ceasar would rise from the dead and come back as the antichrist.

If you don't understand it now then you never will. That is as simple as i can make it. Remember, I didn't say the antichrist would come out of the bottomless pit. The Angel told John that.