Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before saying its torture

reply to post by jerico65


Okay...

here.

and

Here

Actually, its illegal to commit torture if you are a US national period under US law.

But there you go.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
I am really surprised any civilized modern American would condone torture for any reason.

You are correct. Most people including myself is against torture.
This is not a contradiction on my part since waterboarding is NOT torture.

I think that the issue of WHY we are there or even HOW we got there in the first place is another discussion.

The fact is, we are there. Whether or not it is a just war (?) we are fighting it anyway. We need to figure out now, how to win this damn thing. Will waterboarding/torture/carpet bombing (ad nauseum) help us in finishing what we started? Will it (in the long run) end this war sooner? Will it end up in saving military AND civillian lives?

Those are the questions (I think) that need to be addressed.

Originally posted by its bologna
here.

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 113C of what?? What document is this?

reply to post by WhatTheory


That is US Code. Its on the title page of the document...

Also many references were made to it the torture memos, that's how I learned to search for them...and how I know that the lawyer who put together the argument should be disbarred, because I'm no lawyer, but his argument was weak and inept.

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic

Line up all the conservatives talk show hosts one by one. Hannity first, then Limbaugh, then O'Reily. This is hilarious, I wonder if there's a YouTube of this anywhere. Who hears the graphic descriptions of waterboarding, all the uproar about it, and is stupid enough to say "That's not torture, do it to me?" I don't know what's funnier the fact that these people deny it or the fact that this guy crumbled so fast.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]

It must be nice to view this as nothing but a battle between parties and not because that an american has realized how wrong it is.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by Dark Jester]

Originally posted by Dark Jester

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic

Line up all the conservatives talk show hosts one by one. Hannity first, then Limbaugh, then O'Reily. This is hilarious, I wonder if there's a YouTube of this anywhere. Who hears the graphic descriptions of waterboarding, all the uproar about it, and is stupid enough to say "That's not torture, do it to me?" I don't know what's funnier the fact that these people deny it or the fact that this guy crumbled so fast.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]

It must be nice to view this as nothing but a battle between parties and not because that an american has realized how wrong it is.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by Dark Jester]

I agree with your sentiment..I think every American should see this as wrong.

Originally posted by yellowcard


So, I guess Sean Hannity is next? I wonder if Sean would denounce it as torture if it was done to him. I know that he said he was going to do it for charity, but he has yet to do so. If Hannity says it's torture it could send a shockwave through the right wing, I think. I'm sure that despite it being torture he may still say it's needed for national security. Many right-wing hosts have different perspectives on this, some even say that the terrorists have no right under the Geneva Convention because they weren't in uniform.

rawstory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Who defines what uniform is. Us because it is easy for us to make our own rules?

I wish more people would try this out so they know.

They best way to know something is to experience it.


If our politicians want waterboarding to be allowed , anyone who is for it should be forced to endure it.............Without a safety device because after all.....Those that our gov is doing it too don't get a safety toy cow.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
I am really surprised any civilized modern American would condone torture for any reason.

You are correct. Most people including myself is against torture.
This is not a contradiction on my part since waterboarding is NOT torture.

Hey! you!

What are you talking about? do you believe your own words:

"waterboarding is NOT torture!" - are you nuts or!!

How old are you? I'm really curious!

[edit on 23-5-2009 by Chevalerous]

Originally posted by WhatTheory
I have been waterboarded and while it is very unpleasant, it sure in the hell is NOT torture. You have no idea what real torture is.

Since you make such a claim, could you share under what pretense? ( Demonstration?, Training?, Voluntary?, Captive?)

(Plus I just wanted to grab your quote so you don't retract / deny it later)

Thanks....KK

[edit on 22-5-2009 by kinda kurious]

Torturous Discussion

Originally posted by WhatTheory
You are correct. Most people including myself is against torture.
This is not a contradiction on my part since waterboarding is NOT torture.

Of course, the question of whether waterboarding is, in fact, torture or not is at the hub of the hubbub.

There are obviously differing opinions regarding waterboarding. The matter does not appear to have been conclusively resolved from a legal standpoint in the United States, and the issue is surprisingly complex.

It's been posted before, but the Wikipedia article on the subject really is quite well-researched and informative:

Wikipedia: Waterboarding

As many other members have pointed out, waterboarding has been historically considered torture and a war crime by the U.S. government, and it very much does contravene the United Nations Convention Against Torture to which the U.S. is a signatory (and it is therefore legally binding per Article VI of the U.S. Constitution).

Although my own arguments against waterboarding are based on moral and ethical grounds, it also appears unlikely that the practice will be unable to withstand public scrutiny or judicial review under international law.

Thus it's ultimately a dead horse from a political point of view (definitely not a winning platform stake for the Republicans), and a chapter of U.S. political/military history that I'm hopeful will soon find itself referred to in the past tense forever more.

I will try to add my 2 cents without offending either side. (nearly impossible)

I think that extreme measures are sometimes needed to gain information. If the person has vital information and is not talking.

Mancow did not show me that water boarding is torture, he showed me that it is effective. If he were a enemy soldier and had vital information, he would be spilling his guts within 5 seconds.

On the flip side, if the person did not actually have any information and was water boarded that would be kind of wrong.

As for the Geneva Convention, do you honestly think The United States is the only country using these sorts of tactics?. Water boarding is probably child's play compared to other means of gaining information.

Kind of a gray area, but I guess it comes down to if you want to gain vital information from the enemy or not.

As an observer.
It looked like nothing. Literally nothing at all.
But I wasn't blindfolded, and lying on my back.
the Inversion of the body had a lot to do with his reaction, I'll bet.
So this is mental, more than physical.

However, I've seen worse reactions from people who have been tasered, and/or pepper sprayed. and they were upright and warned ahead of time.

So, if we deem this procedure as torture. I think Tasers, and pepper spray need to be classed under the same category. Or are those ok, because we perform them on our own citizens?

no waterboarding?
no Tasers!

I had to dig up my password and log in again just to voice my opinion on this. Lately i've just been lurking and not posting any material. New computer so the password wasn't saved.

But anyways. Some of you people posting in this thread make me want to vomit. A few problems I have:

People in the US military are/were subjected to torture. Well they signed up for the military. Maybe they didn't sign up saying they want to be waterboarded, but I believe once they sign into the military, its open game. Im sure they can still say no. But if you agree to it, it doesn't fit the definition of torture. Detainees don't have the choice to say no. They haven't been proven guilty. And nor did they sign a piece of paper saying they are willing to be waterboarded. Combine this with the fact that waterboarding simulates drowning and can make you go unconscious. Also, doesn't it prevent you from being able to breathe? I mean, call me a pussy if you want to, but I like to breathe 24/7. If someone detained me and subjected me to waterboarding to get answers out of me, then it is by all definitions, torture.

Again, some of you people make me want to vomit.

And also, I've nearly drowned many times. In fact, it was part of our training to become lifeguards. (not sure they still do anything like that though). And yes, its a completely unbareable feeling. Maybe some of you were waterboarded (again, post vids if you are so tough), but I'd bet my life that some of the prison guards didn't treat detainees with any degree of respect. Breathing in straight water can kill you. Water into the lungs can kill you. Your body's reaction is that of a body that is about to die. How any of you think that is not torture is beyond me.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by Alternative]

[edit on 22-5-2009 by Alternative]

Originally posted by sos37

Originally posted by grover
Yeah all those who are cavalier about torture obviously haven't had it happen to them... think about it though... waterboarding simulates drowning... having come close to drowning a couple of times in my life and I can say without equivocation that it is a terrifying experience and even if you know that you aren't drowning... your body doesn't and will react like it does... with panic.

So you're obviously cavalier about terrorism then since you don't give a damn whether or not we get information out of captured men that could possibly prevent an attack on one of our cities.

Let's see - torture a terrorist who will live from the experience or watch a building full of innocent people go down just to satisfy your moral compass.

Nice. I can honestly say from the standpoint of an American born IN America who honestly loves his country that all of you who would rather treat these men like they are on some kind of vacation that all of you are truly disgusting individuasl - you would rather these reprehensible men be treated with flowers and daisies while your own countrymen die.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by sos37]

can we say populate words with your mouth

drama

flowers and daisies

drama much???

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85
Who defines what uniform is. Us because it is easy for us to make our own rules?

Nope, that was defined under the Geneva Conventions. No uniform, you can be captured as a war criminal.

Originally posted by spacedoubt
As an observer.
It looked like nothing. Literally nothing at all.
But I wasn't blindfolded, and lying on my back.
the Inversion of the body had a lot to do with his reaction, I'll bet.
So this is mental, more than physical.

However, I've seen worse reactions from people who have been tasered, and/or pepper sprayed. and they were upright and warned ahead of time.

So, if we deem this procedure as torture. I think Tasers, and pepper spray need to be classed under the same category. Or are those ok, because we perform them on our own citizens?

no waterboarding?
no Tasers!

It is physical too...your body goes into a physical reaction...and there is the risk of brain damage and death.

Here is an account of what happens..

www.npr.org...

and Here is the physical adversities it causes

www.scientificamerican.com...


[edit on 22-5-2009 by its bologna]

Originally posted by spacedoubt
As an observer.
It looked like nothing. Literally nothing at all.
But I wasn't blindfolded, and lying on my back.
the Inversion of the body had a lot to do with his reaction, I'll bet.
So this is mental, more than physical.

However, I've seen worse reactions from people who have been tasered, and/or pepper sprayed. and they were upright and warned ahead of time.

So, if we deem this procedure as torture. I think Tasers, and pepper spray need to be classed under the same category. Or are those ok, because we perform them on our own citizens?

no waterboarding?
no Tasers!

Man! you are a moderator here!

How can you say this is similar like being taserd?

Do you prefer one of these acts before another creepy torture act I can provide you with!

Whatta hell is wrong with all of you people? please explain this for me!

what am I missing here?

Did anyone who watched the video (especially those claiming to be familiar with the technique) just happen to notice HE WAS NOT HELD DOWN?

He sprung up very quickly. Other depictions I have seen included the torturee (new word) being held down by assistants, handcuffed or strapped to the table. They would endure the abuse at the control of interrogators. And repeated over and over again. The whole dominant vs. submissive technique.

BIG DIFFERENCE NO?

Seems like a minor yet obvious observation.

This was a shock-jock parlor trick peeps, not even close to the real thing.

Regards...KK

[edit on 22-5-2009 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
I am really surprised any civilized modern American would condone torture for any reason.

You are correct. Most people including myself is against torture.
This is not a contradiction on my part since waterboarding is NOT torture.

What is torture tough guy???

Maybe ATS can sponsor a water the pro torture conservative ATSer short film.

How bout you???

I'll put a crisp 5er on you