Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before saying its torture

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by jfj123

 

Hey man, im not saying its bad.
Dont get me wrong, i agree its a form of torture.

But the radio host in this particular demonstration , had his mind made up, and didnt even take 10 seconds to actually experience it.

It just makes the '' waterboarding is torture '' camp a bit, quick to jump on board.

That's why I posted those other videos.
And notice the one with the Navy Seal in it? And what he said about water boarding?
He isn't some woos radio show host and he felt like he was going to die.

Originally posted by bsbray11

The planes were the initiator. If the planes never hit the towers would still be standing. The planes initiated the chain reaction that felled the towers.

That's a theory. Theories are usually based on certain facts, or at least scientific ones are.

First let's define what a theory is.

In science, a theory is not a guess, not a hunch. It's a well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented explanation for our observations.2 It ties together all the facts about something, providing an explanation that fits all the observations and can be used to make predictions. In science, theory is the ultimate goal, the explanation. It's as close to proven as anything in science can be.

We know that planes hit the buildings, ok. But they still stood, so we know that more was needed.

Technically you are correct. We would add the component of TIME. I'm a builder and have seen a number of buildings burn. I've seen building collapse DAYS after the fire was out. Why would that happen? For the same reason the towers didn't collapse right away- Global structural failure.

So they were on fire for a while, alright. Lots of steel framed buildings have suffered much more intense fires and so we know what fires can do to steel frames, and it's absolutely no mystery. Then something totally unseen before happens, at least in engineering terms. It would be easy to say the planes and fires "did it," but you know some people actually have the unfortunate job of having to figure out how exactly it happened. And that's where a bunch of problems come up, both for myself and many thousands of other people who have actually looked at the data, compared to the actual theories presented by the same agencies. Not many people even know that a 3rd skyscraper, WTC7, fell that day. That is the definition of ignorance. But I digress.

I can bet almost everyone on ATS knows that WTC7 also fell.

The point is, 9/11 can't be used to justify expensive and bloody military conquests in the Middle East because it was orchestrated by people with inside access, not Muslims.

Of course this is only your opinion.

Originally posted by Boomer1941
Originally posted by jfj123
As you can see, there is no evidence to suggest torturing anyone is going to get us reliable intelligence. Torture DOES NOT WORK. It's that simple.

My Oh My...look at the sources, it the Liberal Election Comittee...lol I'm gonna start up a Kool-Aid Factory as soon as I get me soma that Bail Out Money

Did you also notice that the people actually involved in water boarding the detainee's, said it doesn't work?? Or did you just miss that part?

I'll be honest, I don't care all that much about those who are actually guilty. I do think they should receive due process but I'm not arguing against torture for them. My point is, how long will it be before it's ok to do it to everyone??? The bush administration have in the past, kidnapped at least 1 Canadian citizen and had him tortured. So why not an American? Where does it end?

And if it really does work so well to get information, why don't all police do this with suspects? Some people posting on this thread claim it works so why shouldn't we use it on all suspects ????????

[edit on 25-5-2009 by jfj123]

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Just because Mancow is a wussy does not mean waterboarding is torture.

Waterboarding is NOT torture.
IF it was torture, then I guess the military tortures it's own troops since it is part of their training.
IF it was torture, that Shiek fellow would be dead since he got the treatment something like 83 times.

You seem to not understand the difference between SERE training and water boarding.

When our troops are put through training, they know that if things go bad all they need to do is stop. Our troops might experience discomfort but they KNOW they are safe and have people around them that will protect them. They also know they'll be free to go when the exercise it done.

People who are forcibly tortured, don't know that.

See the difference???

Oh yes and lets not forget some of those people who were tortured....DIED !

watched the video. didnt resemble torture that i have seen. Mancow is just a big baby.

Originally posted by jfj123

Oh yes and lets not forget some of those people who were tortured....DIED !

show me the link that says people that were waterboarded later died due to it

Originally posted by Conservatron
Originally posted by jfj123

Oh yes and lets not forget some of those people who were tortured....DIED !

show me the link that says people that were waterboarded later died due to it

I said people that were tortured had died. Not specifically water boarded. I've already posted the info a ways back.

Something along the lines of broken ribs, crucified, died.....

And here's a bit of irony for everyone

And let us not forget: after WWII, Japanese soldiers who'd waterboarded their American prisoners were put to death by the US military for committing unconscionable acts of torture

www.boingboing.net...

Originally posted by jfj123
And here's a bit of irony for everyone

And let us not forget: after WWII, Japanese soldiers who'd waterboarded their American prisoners were put to death by the US military for committing unconscionable acts of torture

www.boingboing.net...

Yep this is what really shows how two faced some Republicans are... They believe that America is NEVER wrong... if the President does it, it's NOT illegal. And if it was illegal for our enemies to do it, it's just FINE for us to do it...

The irrationality astounds me.

I wish there was another planet for all the hateful destructive and perverse beings

The torture of innocents is practiced and always has been by sadistic perpetrators.

The "terrorists" may forget that we are all God's children but that does not mean that we have to as well in response.

To do so is merely to lower ourselves down to their level.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Conservatron
Originally posted by jfj123

Oh yes and lets not forget some of those people who were tortured....DIED !

show me the link that says people that were waterboarded later died due to it

I said people that were tortured had died. Not specifically water boarded. I've already posted the info a ways back.

Something along the lines of broken ribs, crucified, died.....

And as i pointed out to his beatingshad nothing to do with torture and as much as you would like to prove it was because of it doesn't make it so. That was strictly revenge he was killed for his involvement in the Jessica Lynch capture. So post some real facts show how interrogators were breaking ribs and stop posting mis leading facts because you believe something to be true.

reply to post by jfj123


You do realize even a terrorist has the same option fully cooperate water boarding stops your argument is silly at best. I dont think water boarding should be used.However i don't think us discussing how far we can go and what we would be willing to do is beneficial for future interrogations. The only message where sending the terrorist is the United States is weak and if captured they have no need to cooperate because the US cant do anything to them.You cannot negotiate with anyone from a stand of weakness they tend to ignore you. I personally think thanks to people like you i would have no fear of being captured because sadly i see the united States no longer has the back bone it once had and is destined to pass into history well at least it was a good run i guess.

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Conservatron
Originally posted by jfj123

Oh yes and lets not forget some of those people who were tortured....DIED !

show me the link that says people that were waterboarded later died due to it

I said people that were tortured had died. Not specifically water boarded. I've already posted the info a ways back.

Something along the lines of broken ribs, crucified, died.....

And as i pointed out to his beatingshad nothing to do with torture and as much as you would like to prove it was because of it doesn't make it so. That was strictly revenge he was killed for his involvement in the Jessica Lynch capture. So post some real facts show how interrogators were breaking ribs and stop posting mis leading facts because you believe something to be true.

I have no idea why you're talking about jessica lynch but
LIKE I ALREADY SAID
I've posted info about death while being tortured.
Read some of my posts.

[edit on 25-5-2009 by jfj123]

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by jfj123

 

You do realize even a terrorist has the same option fully cooperate water boarding stops your argument is silly at best. I dont think water boarding should be used.However i don't think us discussing how far we can go and what we would be willing to do is beneficial for future interrogations.

Why not?
It's a reasonable step.
If you can make an argument once, it'll come up again and again.
And like I said, if it works (it doesn't) but lets say it does, then why shouldn't our police employ the same tactics to get information from suspects???

The only message where sending the terrorist is the United States is weak and if captured they have no need to cooperate because the US cant do anything to them.

And if you read my previous posts, you'd know that interrogators have stated that they've gotten plenty of info with simple interviews that didn't use torture in any way.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Conservatron
Originally posted by jfj123

Oh yes and lets not forget some of those people who were tortured....DIED !

show me the link that says people that were waterboarded later died due to it

I said people that were tortured had died. Not specifically water boarded. I've already posted the info a ways back.

Something along the lines of broken ribs, crucified, died.....

And as i pointed out to his beatingshad nothing to do with torture and as much as you would like to prove it was because of it doesn't make it so. That was strictly revenge he was killed for his involvement in the Jessica Lynch capture. So post some real facts show how interrogators were breaking ribs and stop posting mis leading facts because you believe something to be true.

I have no idea why you're talking about jessica lynch but
LIKE I ALREADY SAID
I've posted info about death while being tortured.
Read some of my posts.

[edit on 25-5-2009 by jfj123]

I would suggest you take the time to read someone elses posts besides your own and then you would know why that man had his ribs busted and was murdered. Had nothing to do with interrogations only you made that connection.

Originally posted by dragonridr

I would suggest you take the time to read someone elses posts besides your own and then you would know why that man had his ribs busted and was murdered. Had nothing to do with interrogations only you made that connection.

Here is the information I posted and you didn't read

Exhibit B is the case of Manadel al-Jamadi, an Iraqi deemed a "high-value" target by the CIA. After being beaten to an extent that he had several broken ribs, he was subjected to a form of crucifixion known as "Palestinian hanging." Forty-five minutes later, he was dead, never having revealed whatever vital, ticking-bomb information his American interrogator was seeking.

He was being interrogated and died, never revealing any vital info.

Now stop being lazy and actually read what I'm referring to.

reply to post by jfj123


On May 28, 2005, Navy SEAL Lieutenant Andrew Ledford, the commanding officer of the platoon of SEALs that were accused of inflicting the fatal beating, was acquitted of all responsibility for al-Jamadi's death. Ledford had been charged with assault, dereliction of duty, conduct unbecoming an officer and making false statements.

Eight members of Ledford's platoon received administrative punishment for abuse of al-Jamadi and other prisoners.

According to an article on the Court TV website: "Another lieutenant received a career-killing punitive letter of reprimand following a hearing before the Navy's top SEAL."

He was beaten before he was restrained the act of restraining him killed him do to a broken rib he was unable to breath the mistake the interrogator made was assuming the man was not hurt and was faking injuries. He broke military protocols by not having a medic check him out thus he died 30 minutes after arriving at the prison hardly any cruel interrogation proceeding. It was a violation of handling prisoner of war who was beaten when captured in a bomb attack that killed 12 people in a Baghdad Red Cross facility.Again where talking emotions took over.It happens here in the united states best example Rodney King they beat him he wasnt being interrogated he was being punished for punching a cop.Same here he was being punnished for bombing the red cross he died during interrogation because they suspended him with his arms behind his back which doesnt kill you it is uncomfortable it hurts but wouldn't kill you unless you were already beaten and the interrogator was to stupid to realize it. So wow there goes interrogation death number two your not doing so well are you any more? Just learn your facts of the case and usually youll notice theres always more to the story.

[edit on 5/25/09 by dragonridr]

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by jfj123

 

On May 28, 2005, Navy SEAL Lieutenant Andrew Ledford, the commanding officer of the platoon of SEALs that were accused of inflicting the fatal beating, was acquitted of all responsibility for al-Jamadi's death. Ledford had been charged with assault, dereliction of duty, conduct unbecoming an officer and making false statements.

Eight members of Ledford's platoon received administrative punishment for abuse of al-Jamadi and other prisoners.

According to an article on the Court TV website: "Another lieutenant received a career-killing punitive letter of reprimand following a hearing before the Navy's top SEAL."

He was beaten before he was restrained the act of restraining him killed him do to a broken rib he was unable to breath the mistake the interrogator made was assuming the man was not hurt and was faking injuries. He broke military protocols by not having a medic check him out thus he died 30 minutes after arriving at the prison hardly any cruel interrogation proceeding. It was a violation of handling prisoner of war who was beaten when captured in a bomb attack that killed 12 people in a Baghdad Red Cross facility.Again where talking emotions took over.It happens here in the united states best example Rodney King they beat him he wasnt being interrogated he was being punished for punching a cop.Same here he was being punnished for bombing the red cross he died during interrogation because they suspended him with his arms behind his back which doesnt kill you it is uncomfortable it hurts but wouldn't kill you unless you were already beaten and the interrogator was to stupid to realize it. So wow there goes interrogation death number two your not doing so well are you any more? Just learn your facts of the case and usually youll notice theres always more to the story.

[edit on 5/25/09 by dragonridr]

Wait so he died during interrogation/torture?
Then I'm right.

An Iraqi whose corpse was photographed with grinning US soldiers at the Abu Ghraib prison died under CIA interrogation while in a position condemned by human rights groups as torture.

It was revealed today he was suspended by his wrists, with his hands cuffed behind his back.

The death of the prisoner, Manadel al-Jamadi, became known last year when the Abu Ghraib prison scandal broke. The US military said then that the death had been ruled a homicide. But the exact circumstances under which the man died were not disclosed.

The prisoner died in a position known as "Palestinian hanging," documents reviewed by The AP showed.

One Army guard, Sergeant Jeffery Frost, said the prisoner's arms were stretched behind him in a way he had never before seen. Frost told investigators he was surprised al-Jamadi's arms "didn't pop out of their sockets," according to a summary of his interview.

Frost and other guards had been summoned to reposition al-Jamadi, who an interrogator said was not cooperating. As the guards released the shackles and lowered al-Jamadi, blood gushed from his mouth "as if a faucet had been turned on," according to the interview summary.
Being in this position alone for a period of time can lead to suffocation.

The military pathologist who ruled the case a homicide found several broken ribs and concluded al-Jamadi died from pressure to the chest and difficulty breathing.

Dr Vincent Iacopino, director of research for Physicians for Human Rights, called the hyper-extension of the arms behind the back "clear and simple torture".

www.smh.com.au...

Paint it any way you want but he was tortured until he died.

[edit on 25-5-2009 by jfj123]

Originally posted by jfj123
Technically you are correct. We would add the component of TIME.

No fires? You say planes and time, all the federal agencies say planes and fire. Hmm. I'm guessing your investigation turned up something different about the impacts themselves.

Do you know how many columns were knocked out when the planes hit, and how many were left intact?

I can bet almost everyone on ATS knows that WTC7 also fell.

And a very disproportionate number of ATS members also believe 9/11 was an inside job. You know, I think there's a correlation here; you may be onto something. The more people know about 9/11, the more likely they are to think it was an inside job, because it was an inside job, and only ignorant people who don't know much about 9/11 except what they saw on TV, haven't caught on.

The point is, 9/11 can't be used to justify expensive and bloody military conquests in the Middle East because it was orchestrated by people with inside access, not Muslims.

Of course this is only your opinion.

Whatever makes you feel more comfortable, but you're still wrong about this whole thing. You don't think they made accommodations for all the simpler minds and "simpler" uses of logic when they did this, fully knowing that well over 300 million people would be watching? Give me some critical thinking for a change.