There is only truth here; skeptics of reason need not click.

Originally posted by blupblup
Now you could say that they are comparisons or observations.... but you still think these things and used them in your post.... so therefore you ARE judging.

Originally posted by Ant4AU
Who is to say that your awake isn’t really asleep? Your claiming to know the truth, those who are asleep say the same. Who is right who is wrong?...

persons that attempt to communicate concepts which transcend language, must necessarily still use language. this complicates things considerably, particularly for those whom choose to remain in the realm of dialectics and oppositions. reality is inherently paradoxical, which is difficult for the ego to apprehend and equally difficult to capture in language.

i think the OP has not yet mastered his communications. however, the message he is trying to convey is still true. it is this: intelligences are only cognizant of each other in a top->down way. in other words, those of a lower intelligence are incapable of understanding the perspective of those at higher levels. but higher levels know the lower levels, because they contain the lower levels as a part of their own internal structure. this rule is well documented in the philosophy of Ken Wilber and Spiral Dynamics.

this rule is true at every level of evolution. it is quite easy for a human to understand the thoughts of a cat...but inconceivable that a cat could understand the intelligence of a human. another: you are aware of your cellular functioning, but are your cells aware of you?

of course, for any ONE to say that they have achieved an ultimate perspective is false, and is a return to the dialectics, which ultimately destroys the ineffible paradox. but you CAN NOT SAY that a heirarchical structure DOES NOT EXIST. it does: and they average ego seems to have trouble with that.

here is a quote from "A Course In Miracles" which seems to sum up the OP's position quite well. mull it over and over and see if it doesnt release you to a higher level...

...because the things you think you think appear as images before your eyes, you refuse to accept them as nothing

Is this another Heaven's Gate cult?

Why do you need to be here, if our boogeyman is an imaginary one?

reply to post by logician magician


You see what I gather from what you said in this post. If you are ignorant than you can not learn from me when I am really not teaching or saying anything. So if we do not think the exact way that the society thinks than we are ignorant. Until you actually and come out and say something you are not contributing anything here other than a better than thou attitude toward all of us ignorant people. Please enlighten us with some of the truths of the society so that you can prove the usefulness of this Society that seems to me to be no more than clique that agrees on some ideas.

I accept all gifts given to me. Then I evaluate the gift for it’s usefulness. This gift your giving is well useless from what I have seen so far so you can keep your gift.

Man, this thread would have been awesome if you didn't think you were better than anybody else.

I don't know whats wrong with people nowadays. You call people sheep and animals for not being "awoken". However, you say you do not judge, you simply accept them and understand them.

Do you see the problem with this logic? From the moment you put yourself in another category than the rest of "us", you immediatly destroyed any credibility you had here.

People are people, there is not such thing as somebody who is "awake" or somebody that is "sleeping". That's a fabrication in the minds of people who have a complex in which they believe because they have certain information on subjects, that naturally they are more inclined to be better than than person.

It's complete rubbish. I consider myself to be an enlightened person, but I don't go around telling Christians they live in eternal darkness because I don't follow the same rhetoric and scriptures.

What you have done here is prove exactly how NOT to act when it comes to leading this kind of discussion or movement. You demonize those who aren't on your side of the fence. Instead of educating them or attempting to help them you bellittle, and alienate them away from your cause.

Thanks for lesson in crappy leadership friend. Our ultimate goal as people who are privileged enough to understand the way things really are and see above the veil that has been cast over our heads is to EDUCATE and bring people on board with this movement.

Calling them names and putting yourself on a pedastel will not work for that purpose.

Edit To Add: Also your thread title makes a very big statement about your demeanor in regards to these matters. Not inviting skeptics into this conversation? Who do you think you are? This is community of skeptics, there is nobody here who believes in EVERYTHING, we are all skeptics.

Reason apparently is not your forte.

~Keeper

[edit on 5/13/2009 by tothetenthpower]

[edit on 13-5-2009 by Ant4AU]

There is some merit to what the OP is saying, but people can't accept a single "part" of the message if they don't agree with the way the "whole" was presented. People don't like to be called out, they don't like to be told the truth. So obviously, your thread was doomed from the beginning because you said things people don't want to hear, and because you made some assumptions... But I get what you're saying for the most part.

However, you can't say "don't get mad, but..." then tell someone something and expect them not to react with anger. Even if you didn't mean to pass judgement, other people's perspectives say you are, which means that the effect was the same regardless of your intentions. And we all know you can't judge without being judged yourself. You may very well be "awakened" but that doesn't give you a license to say what you want and pass it off as an objective observation.

Remember, Occam's razor cuts BOTH ways.

[edit on 13-5-2009 by mostlyspoons]

Originally posted by TheMythLives

I actually find this laughable,
you actually believe you hurt my feelings..lol..
I just made that post because
you insulted, belittled and basically made fun of peoples beliefs.

I also find it funny that you said I judge others,
I didn't judge
you did.
I just stated the facts, but if
you consider that judging your not even close to enlightened.

Your not even willing to consider people's thoughts, beliefs, and worst of all
your are not even being rational.

You think I have an ego?

I assume your ego is too big for your mind,
You cannot accept what others believe
you are LOST not enlightened or awake.

When you are questioned with the truth from your own mouth and it is presented you run and call others ignorant.
You retreat in your body where your ego thrives and where it is built up into a strong hold.

I attempted to aid you.
I showed you how you rubbed people the wrong way, yet
you take criticism as an act of war.

You are not enlightened and
you are not awake.
You are lost in your ego....

Stare into the mirror of your mind, my unaware being.

There is clear resistance in you... to expand.

... full of aversion and absolute judgment. A cloudy mind.

How far can you go... to illustrate your walls?

Perhaps one day you will instead draw people into your wisdom instead of repel them with your foolishness of heart and mind.

"We are part of the whole we call a universe, limited in time and space. The ignorant experience their ego, thoughts, and feelings as separated from the rest. The Society's greatest member has referred to this as an optical delusion of consciousness. It is a prison that binds us to personal desires and attachment to a few people. The task of the Society is to widen the circle of compassion and wisdom... to embrace the whole without divide." - Book of Sol C.XVI

The Society takes great measures to hide it's messages from those who are not yet capable of understanding the message...

"A diamond of wisdom belonging to a fool is merely a pebble in an ignorant hand."

Do not judge a book by it's cover, lost one.

reply to post by logician magician


So basically until we ignorant egotistical and asleep people. Bump our heads or have enlightenment chanced upon us then we will not be ready to receive the divine truth from the society. Until then we are just prisoners of our own way of thinking. Wow I just had a moment of clarity your theories are no different than a thousand others that float around.

Your holier than thou attitude you are putting out is only proving how unenlightened you are. I believe most of us will stick to our ignorant ways.



[edit on 13-5-2009 by Ant4AU]

reply to post by logician magician


If you've got to wear a sign 'round your neck saying you is... you ain't. -- Pearl Bailey

To accept what the op is saying is to show the qualities he is accusing us of. Somebody get me a small violin.

Originally posted by Ant4AU
reply to post by logician magician

 

So basically until we ignorant egotistical and asleep people. Bump our heads or have enlighten chanced upon us then we will be ready to receive the divine truth from the society. Until then we are just prisoners of our own way of thinking. Wow I just had a moment of clarity your theories are no different than a thousand others that float around.

Your holier than thou attitude you are putting out is only proving how unenlightened you are. I believe most of us will stick to our ignorant ways.

My friend, the only person making me holier than thou is.... you.

A current drug addict, when told by someone who has already quit that they are messing up their life, hurting their friends and families, etc... by embracing their current habits.... by denying...

There is resistance, denial, insults, shattered existence.

Every member of the Society was once addicted to ignorance, and, like the drug addict that we once were, you still wantonly adhere to your addition in the face of our compassionate message... and we understand completely.

"The only source of knowledge is living through the experience, and nothing excites the ignorant into resistance more than what they do not yet understand." 5th Councilor, House of Banes, Ph.D

Such harsh words towards Logician...This is a prime of example of how offensive the truth can be.

Like a psychologist, reading you off a long prepared interpretation of your psychological evaluation results. At first, you resist, you feel offended... Then later, you realize how right your psychologist was. As you see the psycholgists explanation of your psyche unfold slowly right in front of your eyes.... With each passing day of your life, the evidence mounts. Until you can no longer deny, the truth. Beautiful. Simply beautiful Logician S & F

reply to post by logician magician


Trying to help a drug addict could be considered noble. Telling everyone they are ignorant and will be unless they fold and agree with your society is no different the indoctrination that we all here fight against.

reply to post by logician magician

Stare into the mirror of your mind, my unaware being

Um, sir or ma'am step off your pedestal, your in no way shape or form higher than me or anyone else on this thread... that I assure you.

There is clear resistance in you... to expand

Your lack of understanding and compassion appauls me, but hey we can't all get along.

Perhaps one day you will instead draw people into your wisdom instead of repel them with your foolishness of heart and mind.

First of all I have recieved u2u's from at least twnety people telling me, how good of a job I am doing in this thread alone. I repel no one.... even you, but you need to seriously read what you write and have at least some clear thought. Get off your pedestal or highchair and actually talk to us instead of talking down to us.

"We are part of the whole we call a universe, limited in time and space. The ignorant experience their ego, thoughts, and feelings as separated from the rest. The Society's greatest member has referred to this as an optical delusion of consciousness. It is a prison that binds us to personal desires and attachment to a few people. The task of the Society is to widen the circle of compassion and wisdom... to embrace the whole without divide." - Book of Sol C.XVI

Did you even read what you posted???

The Society takes great measures to hide it's messages from those who are not yet capable of understanding the message...

This society promotes truth and freedom, but we cannot help the masses because you do not understand. Perhaps EXPLAINING it would help, thats the bloody problem with secret societies. Secrets, tell and people might listen and understand. Stop beating around the bush and say it. O wait, thats the problem with many secret societies they do not have a secret...

"A diamond of wisdom belonging to a fool is merely a pebble in an ignorant hand."

wow you sure love the word ignorant a little too much, is that healthy? Yes, but did you know that a childs book in the hand of a wise man is just nonsense, but to a poor man its knowledge? Try figuring that one out, and I am not being funny that is a really complicted one. In all seriousness...

Do not judge a book by it's cover, lost one

The book cover judged itself, the content is the same. But you know what they say about books? They are useless if no one understands, reads or holds them.....

Nice try, but I think the people here know the truth. We are trying to help you. Stop fighting us...

or you could just talk to us and apologize for you rude remarks and start over as adults.

The choice is yours, which do you pick "Enlightened one?"

reply to post by maya27

what eventually happens is the world suffers from complacent know it alls, until someone accidentally discovers something that breaks the extant theory balls in existance.

I hope this isn't your position, because it is a gross misunderstanding of the scientific method.

reply to post by TheMythLives

Firstly, my friends at the boards are not fans of being called ignorant. Perhaps you could of used a better terminology, like sheep

No offense, but this is a horrendously stupid comment - and I hope you realize that upon reflection. Think about it for a moment. As I already explained, ignorance can be used as an insult - but the term itself is not derogatory. Ignorance is merely a state of not knowing. It must be recognized and reconciled. We do not have one one "Field of Science", because the data is so vast that you have to specialize. Those who specialize in one field are often ignorant of information in other fields. Though most people don't consider scientists ignorant, and those who do often call them so by asking an expert in a particular field questions in a field he does not specialize in. An evolutionary biologist is generally ignorant of advances in quantum physics. However, ignorance can be rectified so long as you recognize it.

"Sheep", on the other hand, are merely sheep and nothing more. They are what they are, and nothing can change that. To compare one to a sheep makes a base assumption as to a person's character - an integral component of their personality and individuality.

It's a means of de-humanization, and it by NO MEANS should be considered better or more gentle terminology.

[edit on 13-5-2009 by Lasheic]

Is the op subliminal messaging?(just had to ask) and did you think of this secret society(or join) before or after you stuck an Ethernet cable in a whole you supposedly drilled in your head?(Highly unlikely you did this but if you make a thread like that how can we believe this one)

Peace

Why does it seem like all of those who are "enlightened" always seem to have an obscure message that you have to also be "enlightened" to understand?
Why do these same people seem to talk down to others?
Me, I am not offended, I think it is a bit ridiculous but am not offended, his comments would actually have to have some merit to them to be offending.

TheMythLives raises a great debate, well debate would be an incorrect term, since he seems to be doing all of the debating wile the OP just keeps spouting forth the same things over and over again.

[edit on 5/14/2009 by AlienCarnage]

reply to post by Lasheic


Ok, I'll attempt to explain this. Their are words and vocabulary that when used togethers create hostile sentences and hostile wording. While it is true that ignorance does mean that, the way logicmagician was using it was in a way attack and nothing else. Re-read his statments and you will see it I promise.

Theirs a nice way to say ignorant and a bullying way.

And yes their are gentle terminologies even for ignorant or ignorance.

[edit on May 14th 2009 by TheMythLives]

Originally posted by TheMythLives


Um, sir or ma'am step off your pedestal, your in no way shape or form higher than me or anyone else on this thread... that I assure you.

Yet, you are battling that very idea which you claim is not true.

First of all I have recieved u2u's from at least twnety people telling me, how good of a job I am doing in this thread alone.

The declarations of the ego...

Is this the fuel that your ego uses to battle your imaginary demons?

I repel no one.... even you, but you need to seriously read what you write and have at least some clear thought. Get off your pedestal or highchair and actually talk to us instead of talking down to us.

Quit looking up at me and realize that I am in front of you.

Perhaps EXPLAINING it would help, thats the bloody problem with secret societies. ... tell and people might listen and understand.

A wandering man was traveling through a forest and came upon a temple with many practitioners outside of it. He stopped to listen to the message being taught to the disciples by one of the teachers. The teacher was explaining to the disciples all of the sensory input that an orange gives - a fruit that the students had never even seen.

The man, in a temper walked in front of the teacher, pulled an orange out of his sack, and held it over his head. He then asked, "Ignorant disciples, what is an orange?" to the students. One said, "It is sweet!" another said, "It is round!" a third said, "It is the color of the sunset!"

A final student asked, "... but what do you have in your hand? What is it that you are showing us?"

The man peeled the orange, and took a bite out of it, trying to keep back his laughter. After swallowing, the wanderer replied: "That was an orange!" and walked off.

reply to post by TheMythLives

Ok, I'll attempt to explain this.

Save it. The last thing I need are lessons on literary and social tact from a man who thinks calling people "sheep" is a "gentle terminology".

Secondly, I understood the OP's use of the term ignorant as a means of being derogatorily condescending. That's why whatever stars above his post there may be, do not constitute any of my contribution. However I didn't speak out against this little charade initially because I wanted to see how far it would go. This is because I, to the best of my approximation, see this whole thread is nothing but a rolling troll. The OP is using the same condescending use of language and obfuscating terms and style that -OH SO MANY- people (especially among the spiritualists) here do without an utterance of contention. It's apparently acceptable behavior from them because it's directed at those perceived as "outside" of the conspiracy theory community.

It's a "Lets turn the mirror around and see how they like their own reflection" type of situation.

Sorry if I'm spoiling the fun LM, but it had to be said sooner or later.