OT God not the same as NT God.....

reply to post by miriam0566

In John 3:36 that is John talking, not Jesus.

I think the OT and NT refer to two different Gods. The OT God is angry and always wanting the Israelites to smite entire nations for him.

The God of the NT says "Turn the other cheek."

The OT God was in fact none other than the demiurge....sad but true. The demiurge was responsible for creating the material world and he falsely believes that he is the one true God when there are others higher than him. He was created by an error from Sophia.

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by miriam0566

 

In John 3:36 that is John talking, not Jesus.

I think the OT and NT refer to two different Gods. The OT God is angry and always wanting the Israelites to smite entire nations for him.

The God of the NT says "Turn the other cheek."

I just like to expand, the reason why the OT God was angry was because God was to have his son born in years to come and to do this he had to keep the Adamite Bloodline safe otherwise it would not work. They had to keep as a race who they were. Jesus for example was born a Jew and of the same Bloodline and just the rumour of a new King to be born was a threat to the Romans who wanted baby Jesus dead when they killed all the infants and likewise the fallen Angels would do the same to save them selves in the form of Nephelim. It all makes sense if you can connect it all up.

There has been a hidden war going on, the main one was to stop the Messiah from comming by exterminating all the Jews throughout history.

Once Jesus was in the flesh in the world and all the past wrongs and bondages were over come and a new set of covenant were open, but in the end they killed Jesus off the sacrificed lamb of the world. This is why Christians don't sacrifice animals or have to be circumsticed, the rules changed but the commandments were the same.

[edit on 20-5-2009 by The time lord]

reply to post by The time lord

Yeah but supposedly in OT God gave Moses 10 commandments, one being do not kill, but then orders Moses and his army to kill all the caananites and all other similar tribes around the promise land. Including ordering them to kill the women and children.

Does that sound like something God would do, or like something man would do, to use God's name as an authority for giving them creedance to what they were doing?

Rage against the machine, "Killin in the name of"

Also sacrificing animals for sins??? That's soooo Pagan. Why weren't buddhists dong this, or American Indians, or Muslims, or any other major religions. Animal sacrifice for sins is mostly only Jewish and pagan based. We don't see this much anywhere else.

DO not kill. For me that goes for animals as well, God's creation. How can the blodd from any animal which had nothing to do with my sins, cover my sins if I sacrifice that animal????

Just saying man ......Jesus came into the scene and said, the kingdom of heaven is within you, and the Holy Spirit will teach you further things that man cannot teach you, and direct experiences of God.

What Jesus was saying were eternal truths. The kingdom of heaven being within isn't something that is true wants Jesus said it. It was a truth that has always been true. So some asian guy going within himself in OT days after repenting/changing from the old ways would have eventually come across that kingdom with, (which be the way will only be found in meditation)

So instead of killin precious little innocent animals in savagery, all one had to do is repent and go within.

Thats why I'm all for Jesus, but the OT and the Jewish way for me is dead. Experiencing directly what Jesus experienced and being like Jesus is where its at. Everything else is a bunch of empty words with relative meaning.

Also to remember the OT was a Jewish thing it is not gentile and never was, we do not have to follow that path, its done with and it never was ours to emulate anyway. The cross and sacrifice of Christ was then passed to the world he saved all in the end through his faith.

Text

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by The time lord

 

Yeah but supposedly in OT God gave Moses 10 commandments, one being do not kill, but then orders Moses and his army to kill all the caananites and all other similar tribes around the promise land. Including ordering them to kill the women and children.

Does that sound like something God would do, or like something man would do, to use God's name as an authority for giving them creedance to what they were doing?

Rage against the machine, "Killin in the name of"

Also sacrificing animals for sins??? That's soooo Pagan. Why weren't buddhists dong this, or American Indians, or Muslims, or any other major religions. Animal sacrifice for sins is mostly only Jewish and pagan based. We don't see this much anywhere else.

DO not kill. For me that goes for animals as well, God's creation. How can the blodd from any animal which had nothing to do with my sins, cover my sins if I sacrifice that animal????

Just saying man ......Jesus came into the scene and said, the kingdom of heaven is within you, and the Holy Spirit will teach you further things that man cannot teach you, and direct experiences of God.

What Jesus was saying were eternal truths. The kingdom of heaven being within isn't something that is true wants Jesus said it. It was a truth that has always been true. So some asian guy going within himself in OT days after repenting/changing from the old ways would have eventually come across that kingdom with, (which be the way will only be found in meditation)

So instead of killin precious little innocent animals in savagery, all one had to do is repent and go within.

Thats why I'm all for Jesus, but the OT and the Jewish way for me is dead. Experiencing directly what Jesus experienced and being like Jesus is where its at. Everything else is a bunch of empty words with relative meaning.

Yes but did you read the part where the Caananites made the spies look like grasshoppers beside them? They were not human and their bloodline was spoil. Genesis 6 says there were Nephelim in those days and the days after. Meaning what I said in my previous post, if killing off the Jews was too hard since God protected them then the Evil Angels bread with man and other Jewish tribes to infiltrate bloodlines so every child had to be killed otherwise they would come back as a race ready to destroy them all over again. This was not just man verses man war but monsters in the making like David and Goliath story, the Caanite region of the inhumans with inhuman personalities.

"And the Amalekites dwell in the land of the south: and the Hittites, and the Jebusites, and the Amorites, dwell in the mountains: and the Canaanites dwell by the sea, and by the coast of Jordan.

"And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it.

"But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we.

"And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.

"And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight."

Text

Yes giants, inhumans were there and they have to preserve the land and their bloodlines before man it self would be destroyed, a greater battle than what the Prophet Muhammad had over the Jews. This at least fact or fiction does not say they killed other humans. But of course other wars did happen.

[edit on 20-5-2009 by The time lord]

[edit on 20-5-2009 by The time lord]

reply to post by The time lord

Yes but did you read the part where the Caananites made the spies look like grasshoppers beside them? They were not human and their bloodline was spoil. Genesis 6 says there were Nephelim in those days and the days after. Meaning what I said in my previous post, if killing off the Jews was too hard since God protected them then the Evil Angels bread with man and other Jewish tribes to infiltrate bloodlines so every child had to be killed otherwise they would come back as a race ready to destroy them all over again. This was not just man verses man war but monsters in the making like David and Goliath story, the Caanite region of the inhumans with inhuman personalities.

My friend, I hear where you are coming from, but at the same time stand back in retrospect and read what your saying here. Think about all of this from the eyes of someone who has no clue about Christianity, like many people and newbies I teach in the streets and elsewhere.

God had to defend the Jewish bloodline so Jesus can be born? Come on now!!!!! Jesus could have come through anyone, anywhere, at any time, through any race. It didn't have to be Jews. Perhaps it was the Jews because they were killing God's creation, the animals for sacrifices, in droves and it was time to put this absurdity to rest.

God could have set aside a small bloodline refuge camp stashed away somewhere in the outskirts of a jungle, desert, cave, etc all with specific implications that in X amount of years Jesus would be born from them.

Not only the caananites, but the midianites, amorites, and many others all being killed. This all sounds very "human perspective" on things. Let's all go kill everyone because we are chosen and God is on our side, and once we win, then we will write in this book that this was God's plan and God's fate and God was with is because we were victorious.

When in fact God loves everyone equally and there is no "chosen" set of people. Everyone is equally a soul having a human experience.

But if the Jews lost any wars or battles (which they did) then, "well, we must have smited God somehow and now he's pissed and we have to deal with his wrath" So ridiculous.

Plus the women of these killed off tribes that were virgins, "OT God" ordered them to be taken as wives be the Jews. So now we have inbreeding, mixing of tribes, and now its hard to say these tribes were nephilim or anything elee if the Jews were taking the virigins for themselves.

I mean its no wonder all the B.S. in the world is all centered around the Jews and the middle east. Talk about a group of big ego'ed, self centric, chosen group of people if I ever heard of one and being justified by the OT to be so.

In My eyes a Jew is no different than a Muslim and they should both get equal shares of land and everything else on this planet.

I am sorry to say but the Bible is very bloodline orientated up until Jesus was born at least.
The Bible is very specific of the Christ bloodlines and many have tried to stop it.

No doubt this where James Cameron's Terminator comes into place with the same principle John Conners story.

Bible account of Bloodlines.

GOD
1 Adam
2 Seth
3 Enos
4 Cainan
5 Maleleel
6 Jared
7 Enoch
8 Mathusala
9 Lamech
10 Noe (Noah)
11 Sem (Shem)
12 Arphaxad
13 Sala
14 Heber
15 Phalec
16 Ragau
17 Saruch
18 Nachor
19 Thara
20 ABRAHAM
21 Isaac
22 Jacob
23 Judas
24 Phares
25 Esrom
26 Aram
27 Aminadab
28 Naasson
29 Salmon
30 Booz
31 Obed
32 Jesse
33 DAVID
34 Nathan second (surviving) son of Bathsheba
35 Mattatha
36 Menan
37 Melea
38 Eliakim
39 Jonan
40 Joseph
41 Juda
42 Simeon
43 Levi
44 Matthat
45 Jorim
46 Eliezer
47 Jose
48 Er
49 Elmodam
50 Cosam
51 Addi
52 Melchi
53 Neri
54 Salathiel
56 Rhesa
57 Joanna
58 Juda
59 Joseph
60 Semei
61 Mattathias
62 Maath
63 Nagge
64 Esli
65 Naum
66 Amos
67 Mattathias
68 Joseph
69 Janna
70 Melchi
71 Levi
72 Matthat
73 HELI
74 (MARY) of who was born

75 JESUS
WHO IS CALLED "MESSIAH"
"THE SON OF ADAM
WHO WAS THE SON OF
GOD"

So all this was preserved like a a marathon run, it had to be a Male born a Jew from the orginal line of Adam for Sin to be defeated. Hope this helps not trying to sound geeky just incase people want to know.

Yahweh represents the father,the source, which is basically the CREATOR who created for 6 days and rested on the 7th, he is the one who created man and woman and our savior here on this earth which you are confusing him with.


Elohim is basically his title instead of what every religion throughout this world seems to have and refers to as some sort of "god or goddess"

Yeshua was the son which most know as Jesus, these are two separate beings so don't be confused by the trinity.

This source can help clear it up for you..

The Hebrew Names

Most who learn the Hebrew names usually use them instead of the ones that's causing confusion today mainly because there simply is and never was a "J" in the Hebrew alphabet, and we all know with translations words lose half of what was the original intended meaning.

Also the OT represents the law that the Messiah came to uphold, it never was abolished like how so many falsely teach.

John 14:15
"If you love me, you will obey what I command.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever—
17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[a] in you.
18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.
20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

I believe we have to read in between the lines more my friends because there is a reason why I bolded and underlined those words and left out the explaining the Holy Spirit, the Holy Bible is the guidance for our SPIRITUAL JOURNEY, not an organized one. True understanding comes from each and everyone of us who seeks to learn and find out the real truth.

reply to post by anarcissus

still its interesting how the terms Yahweh or Elohim are not once used in NT

Your source for Hebrew names matters not in the grand scheme. Like all apologists, everything is quote unquote accounted for.

Also the OT represents the law that the Messiah came to uphold, it never was abolished like how so many falsely teach.

If thats true, then you my friend have about 980 something commandments to live up to. Including kosher eating, being completely immobile on the sabbath where you can not basically anything on that day, make sure you're circumcised, etc

When Jesus said he came to fulfil the law, that to me is saying that he came to fulfil the prophecies of his coming and how he will change everything. Plain and simple.

What if its the Holy Spirit that has shown me and others that the OT god is not the same as the NT God???? Then we have quite a predicament

reply to post by dominicus

What if its the Holy Spirit that has shown me and others that the OT god is not the same as the NT God???? Then we have quite a predicament

So does that mean whatever thoughts pop into your head supersedes the Bible? Jesus said, "I did not come to abolish the Law but to establish the Law." Maybe I missed your original point. Who is it you think is the current God? Or do you think there is no God? It has been a while since I read this thread. If you think that the apparent contradictions between the Gods cancel each other out, that is rather small minded. If you are a Christian and think you have a new God, that is a mistake.

reply to post by The time lord


You know for being the creator of reallity, he sure did have a very complicated plan. Doesn't the fact that god goes through all this trouble, but can do anything raise any questions at all?

Why don't I put it in perspective..


Since I'm a mortal, I won't use a messiah example, but the idea will be the same.

Lets say.. I want pizza.

Now I could do this; wait a couple years, get a degree in agriculture, start a wheat farm, make enough money, start a tomato crop, make enough money to buy a dairy farm, then make enough money to get an egg farm. Then I can go to culinary school to learn to make a really great pizza, then I can save up and lease a space.. Go through licensing, and start a pizza parlor. Then I can either train people to make pizza, or make it myself. But since I'm being complicated, I'm going to train people to make it. So I train them.. and they make it using all those ingredients from my farms. And then I finally get my pizza after 25-30 years.

Or I can just go to Pizza Hut and spend 20 dollars and get a pizza.

Now if I could just go get a pizza, then wouldn't it seem pretty silly to spend my whole life trying to make my own pizza?

But god supposedly wants to make things hard, and do things as most complicated as he can, even though hes supposed to be omnipotent, and could just completely materialize a sin-less Jesus into reality.

Well, that was my rant about messiahs and pizza. Enjoy.

Also I want to note that there is no evidence that King Herod ever slaughtered innocents.

[edit on 26-5-2009 by Miraj]

reply to post by jmdewey60

So does that mean whatever thoughts pop into your head supersedes the Bible?

Well, I am a Christian and have enlightenment, the Holy Spirit, transcendence, and many other direct experiences including being blinded by the light within like Saul on his way to Damascus. I would say that gives me some credence since most Christians I ask about these direct experiences don't have a clue about them.

No its easy to discern a thought that pops into my head from my mind vs. a thought sent from the Spirit. Very easy to discern, because I have mastery over my thought life and my thoughts. So finding out that thousands upon thousands of other Christian groups in the first 4-5 centuries also believed this way is rather justifying to this thought of OT vs NT.

Also, you don't think everything that's in the Bible is final??? You don't think there is more to the story and additional revelations? You must be hard headed if you believe that's it, when all you have to do is look to the desert fathers, the philokalia, and the mystics to see that divine revelation still occurs to individuals still to this very day an age.

Jesus said, "I did not come to abolish the Law but to establish the Law."

Of course he said that. The prophets in the OT said that Jesus would change everything!!! He sure did. Again, if the OT law still stands, you should be only eating kosher, circumcised, and you have about 1,000 other commandments that are virtually impossible to fulfill(not even the pharisees and saducee's could do it)

I'll stick to the most important commandment, nice and simple. Love God with all your heart, mind soul, and strength.

Maybe I missed your original point. Who is it you think is the current God?

See, you show the problem that's relevant right off the bat. If you think of "God" that thought is not God. The God I speak of, that Jesus spoke of, is beyond thoughts and thinking about. IS within all people, infinite, omnipresent, and pure Love. Knows all things before they happen. Loves everyone including sinnes, muslims, buddhists, atheists, and does not judge (remember judgement was given to Jesus. And since they are one, well you get the picture)

The God of the OT would never order Moses to Kill all the surrounding people's of the promise land, killing all the women, children, and taking the virgins for themselves. All in the name of God. That's something people do, not God.

God wouldn't flood the whole earth to kill off the whole population and then later regret what he did. Since God knows all things God would have known that to do that would lead to regret. This sounds more like people blaming or accrediting God with something God didn't do. For example a person gets injured severely and I always hear people say, "I wonder what he did to make God so pissed at him that he got in this accident." That's the majority attitude about God around the world.

Also God is not a He sitting up on a cloud with a white beard and angels playing harps all around "him."

Or do you think there is no God?

Oh there definitely is a God, all around us, within all things and all things within God. There is no escaping such profound reality, the only true reality is God.

It has been a while since I read this thread. If you think that the apparent contradictions between the Gods cancel each other out, that is rather small minded.

My friend, I wish to be as far from the mind and its small mindedness as is possible. This is the cause of all our troubles, ego, and separation. Its the bastard mind which clouds the omnipresence of God.

There are definite contradictions between OT and NT, but its simple to ascribe them to the authors perspectives. Just like in real life we have Christians with deep and profound spiritual enlightenment, and one's who are not there yet. To me the NT is written by ones with a deeper enlightenment then the authors of the OT had.

Also Bible is; symbolic, allegorical, poetry, history, perspectives, opinions, nationalist, military tactics, accounts, stories, etc. If you take it all literally, shame on you.

If you are a Christian and think you have a new God, that is a mistake.

My friend, the God that I have, isn't only my God. It's the same God who has always been and is one with all people, places, things. OT authors put their human attributes and ideas about God. Then Jesus comes and squares it all away by professing the transcendence and mysticism and that revolves around a God that is here and now and isn't filled with anger ready to kill off whole nations because he's pissed.

Nothing new here. Just a new way of looking at things. The same way when Jesus came here 2,000 years ago and all the churches/temples were ready to kill him for his profound messages. Same thing is happening today. Christians are so attached to words and the "law" that they themselves have become like the Pharisees and Saducees unable to see the omnipresence of God right in front of their faces.

Besides that, who are you to judge/decide who is a Christian and what is a mistake??? Do not judge!!!!! AN important commandment for you to keep. With hundreds of denominations world wide, I consider them all Christians regardless of the differences in theology.

[edit on 26-5-2009 by dominicus]

reply to post by Miraj

But god supposedly wants to make things hard, and do things as most complicated as he can, even though hes supposed to be omnipotent, and could just completely materialize a sin-less Jesus into reality.

God does things with the purpose of being compassionate.
Things are allowed to work out in a way that allows the most people to eventually get the benefits of the plan.




[edit on 26-5-2009 by jmdewey60]

Well, Marcion put it fairly sufficiently. If you don't know about Marcion, google him. He said that the God of Jesus was the true loving God; the Old Testament god is only just.

reply to post by dominicus

So finding out that thousands upon thousands of other Christian groups in the first 4-5 centuries also believed this way is rather justifying to this thought of OT vs NT.

There were a lot of heresies back in those early days like Manecheism that existed before Christianity and adapted some of the beliefs into it but were really not strictly speaking Christian, but can be assumed to be, by people looking back at them.

Also, you don't think everything that's in the Bible is final???

No.

You don't think there is more to the story and additional revelations?

Yes.

You must be hard headed if you believe that's it, when all you have to do is look to the desert fathers, the philokalia, and the mystics to see that divine revelation still occurs to individuals still to this very day an age.

Do not know that person. I do know about some other, at least one, anyway. Did they make predictions that came true? That is one way told in the Bible of how to test if a prophet is reliable.

The prophets in the OT said that Jesus would change everything!!!

What verse is that in?

1,000 other commandments that are virtually impossible to fulfill

Not the ones that you can keep, just as an individual.

I'll stick to the most important commandment, nice and simple. Love God with all your heart, mind soul, and strength.

How do you carry it out, on a practical level? Do you keep the Sabbath? That would show you love God.

See, you show the problem that's relevant right off the bat. If you think of "God" that thought is not God. The God I speak of, that Jesus spoke of, is beyond thoughts and thinking about.

This part is true.

IS within all people, infinite, omnipresent, and pure Love. Knows all things before they happen.

Prescience is the word for seeing the future. God can be omniscient and not prescient, in my opinion.

Loves everyone including sinnes, muslims, buddhists, atheists, and does not judge (remember judgement was given to Jesus. And since they are one, well you get the picture)

Not so sure about that. The way I see it is that God loves Jesus and now that he is in the likeness of man, we can share in that love. Jesus himself is given the authority to choose who will be able to stand under his umbrella.

The God of the OT would never order Moses to Kill all the surrounding people's of the promise land, killing all the women, children, and taking the virgins for themselves. All in the name of God. That's something people do, not God.

So you feel justified in not following any part of the Bible that disturbs you sensibilities?

God knows all things God would have known that to do that would lead to regret.

So according to how you define God, this story can not be true?

This sounds more like people blaming or accrediting God with something God didn't do. For example a person gets injured severely and I always hear people say, "I wonder what he did to make God so pissed at him that he got in this accident." That's the majority attitude about God around the world.

It would be amazingly foolish to not allow yourself to consider that. You just might need a wakeup, if the events do not actually leave you completely crippled.

Then Jesus comes and squares it all away by professing the transcendence and mysticism and that revolves around a God that is here and now and isn't filled with anger ready to kill off whole nations because he's pissed.

Jesus reveals himself. He is not "professing" things about himself to teach us how to be God. He professes that he is God, so we can understand God, but do not make the mistake of thinking we can be Jesus ourselves. We should be like Jesus by being loving. Jesus humbled himself from a glorious being to a servant, that is what we need to follow, not how to go from being a servant to being a god.

Besides that, who are you to judge/decide who is a Christian and what is a mistake???

I am not going to tell you if you are a Christian or not. I meant that as a statement to show two possibilities and asking which way are you approaching the question.


[edit on 26-5-2009 by jmdewey60]

I'd say alot of this enlightenment and light with all this intellectual masterbation is bull#. Some of these peoples justifications are just plain ridiculous lol
Some of you light beings seem a tad annoyed, your easily threatened by anyone or anything that may rattle your little cage view.

You know my little american friends inerlight dont count when statistically speaking it probably came from a tub of antidepressants.

And why do middle class americans think it looks smart to try and sound like a seventeenth century law professor addressing his bank manager on a reply to a post. Your all trying to play the part to much lads its funny to me, keep up the good work

reply to post by jmdewey60

There were a lot of heresies back in those early days like Manecheism that existed before Christianity and adapted some of the beliefs into it but were really not strictly speaking Christian, but can be assumed to be, by people looking back at them.

Mancheans: "Hey Catholics. You guys got it all wrong. The OT god and NT God are not the same amongst other things. God is love and peace"

Catholics: "Oh is that so!!!!" Proceed to kill, excommunicate, jail, and send to trials all those who oppose."

That sure proves who was right to me. The groups killing in the name of God were the writers of history. That doesn't make them right now that the dead sea scrolls and other information is slowly coming out.

How do you carry it out, on a practical level? Do you keep the Sabbath? That would show you love God.

Your just reapting the Pharisees. "Do you keep the sabbath?" Thats the same vein as "let's see who is holier"

Sabbath has nothing to do with anything. Everyday is like the sabbath to me. Days of the weak are illusions when in God's perspective there is no time, days, weeks, months, years. It's all one moment, endless, all the same. When you experience this then you live in timelessness.

Not so sure about that. The way I see it is that God loves Jesus and now that he is in the likeness of man, we can share in that love. Jesus himself is given the authority to choose who will be able to stand under his umbrella.

Yeah but somebody told you this. How do you know this is true???? Have you investigated this yourself directly in meditation. Look at how all other major societal groups have their spiritual ways, native americans, aboriginese, hiduism, sikhism, taoism, etc etc. They all have similar stories to the Bible in common. And the mystic branches of all of these groups including Xtianity are all reporting the same kind of direct spiritual experiences.

So it would be blatant to say the spiritual experiences of Xtians are of God, but the same exact ones that other spiritual groups have are of the devil.

Jesus should have just showed up in the very beginning of time so as to not have all this confusion in the religions of the world, plus he should have showed up to all the groups, hindu's, buddhists, natives, etc.

Instead, he only and strictly appeared to the animal sacrificing jews. Isn't that interesting. It's as if everybody else will figure it out, but the jews specifically were lost.

So you feel justified in not following any part of the Bible that disturbs you sensibilities?

I'm merely playing the dev's advocate in all these discussions. Though I will say I lean heavily towards the opinion's of Universalism and the OT God being a Demiurge or just a bunch of mislead perspectives.

Do I feel justified to think this way? Yes. Why? Because of years of research and founding out that less than 1% of Christians in the U.S. have had any major mystical divine and direct spiritual experiences. Instead what we have is literalism sticking to a book of words.

God is not the Bible. Words are words and have to be transcended. Jesus came so we can be like him and showed us how to do so and how to also have direct experiences the same as he had.

Also I find the same kind of Love, Oneness, and messages in people like Maharshi, Taoists, Nisgardatta, the Gnostics, Essene's, etc.

So according to how you define God, this story can not be true?

I know if I kill others, do tons of drugs, sleep around, rob banks, etc ....these things will lead to regrets so I minimize any actions that lead to regrets. I still mess up and regret stuff, but I learn as I go.

However, we're talking about God here. Already knows itself, everything, future, present, past, etc. To put a human characteristic on God, limits the unlimited. God is too unlimited to have regrets, let alone flood the world and kill almost everybody.

It would be amazingly foolish to not allow yourself to consider that. You just might need a wakeup, if the events do not actually leave you completely crippled.

That's the attitude of the OT hugging Christians who are ready and waiting for God to come down and blaze fire and brimstone destructing everyone but Christians. That makes me sick. I wouldn't wish that on anyone and would never look forward to something like that. Granted revelations says it will be that way, but again something tells me we again have the notion that God is doing all these things when really these will just be occurances that happen regardless, but people have to blame God for it.

If someone is clumsy and stubs their toe, that's reaping an injury of the sowing of clumsiness. Has nothing to do with God punishing them for something. We punish ourselves, Reap what you sow is a law of human existence.

I had my wakeup seeing that the authors of the OT and the OT itself is a racist, nationalistic, poetic, biased, inspired book with sprinkles of Divine wisdom. I also woke up to see the gospel of Thomas is indeed the words of Jesus teaching an advanced from of Xtianity that I myself, and many others, have experienced before even reading Thomas.

I don't fear God, I love God. Fear is OT based. Love is NT based.

Jesus reveals himself. He is not "professing" things about himself to teach us how to be God. He professes that he is God, so we can understand God, but do not make the mistake of thinking we can be Jesus ourselves. We should be like Jesus by being loving. Jesus humbled himself from a glorious being to a servant, that is what we need to follow, not how to go from being a servant to being a god.

John 17:10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.

Bam!!!!!!! There it is in black and white. He came so that the oneness he has/had with God, he can show us how we can have that too. I tasted it for 3 seconds. I have friends who have experienced this. Taoists experience this. And experiencing this unlocks the gospel of thomas.

The Oneness and omnipresence of God has always been that, It's been there before, during, and after Jesus being on earth in the physical. That Oneness is accessable to anyone anywhere. Some accidentaly come across it while using drugs, others during mediation, some while praying. But the underlying reality before all things is this oneness of God that is there before you wake up, before you are born, etc.

You just have to dig through the scriptures to find the Gems. Even Paul says, "Not I, but Christ in me." and "I die to myself daily." Well guess who takes over when the ego and the you dies??? That's right!!! You become Christ like.

I am not going to tell you if you are a Christian or not. I meant that as a statement to show two possibilities and asking which way are you approaching the question.

Fair enough. I jumped the gun on that one because its what I'm usually used to when discussing these thing with Christians. They usually want to roast me in an oven for being different than they are.

reply to post by candy coated clown

I'd say alot of this enlightenment and light with all this intellectual masterbation is bull#. Some of these peoples justifications are just plain ridiculous lol

Yes I agree many/most justifications are plain ridiculous.

Some of you light beings seem a tad annoyed, your easily threatened by anyone or anything that may rattle your little cage view.

I gotta say, my little caged view got destroyed about 3 months ago. There no longer is a cage or box to fit reality into.

You know my little american friends inerlight dont count when statistically speaking it probably came from a tub of antidepressants.

Speak for yourself. I'll bet you a million bucks you too have a innerlight. It takes some pretty heavy doses of meditation to see this.

You either have Spiritual enlightenment, or you don't. Its soooo simple and in black and white. That's it.

reply to post by candy coated clown

And why do middle class americans think it looks smart to try and sound like a seventeenth century law professor addressing his bank manager on a reply to a post.

I do not post for someone's entertainment, but if you are amused, that' ok with me. "Trying to look smart" should be a requirement. I mean it helps to make your posts readable and comprehensible because the topics are hard enough without throwing bad form into it.

Originally posted by candy coated clown
I'd say alot of this enlightenment and light with all this intellectual masterbation is bull#. Some of these peoples justifications are just plain ridiculous lol
Some of you light beings seem a tad annoyed, your easily threatened by anyone or anything that may rattle your little cage view.

You know my little american friends inerlight dont count when statistically speaking it probably came from a tub of antidepressants.

And why do middle class americans think it looks smart to try and sound like a seventeenth century law professor addressing his bank manager on a reply to a post. Your all trying to play the part to much lads its funny to me, keep up the good work

What does middle-class America have to do with anything? This forum has contributors from all over the world, and from various socio-economic backgrounds.

If your only contribution to this thread is to attempt to deride Americans by suggesting that they're all on anti-depressants, maybe you should take a break, stay in school, and come back in a few years.

Or maybe instead you could post something loosely related to the thread topic?