democrats vote to protect pedophiles but not military veterans in hate crimes bill

There were Amendments that were proposed one was to add vets into the bill it was voted down. There was on propose to exclude pedophilia it also was voted down . Now if that isn't anti vet and pro pedophile i don't know what is . A news cast played the yeas and nays to the amendments im sure it will be on ytube soon

It does not specially state pedophile but that does fall under a sexual orientation.

Originally posted by Lostinthedarkness

Personally I don't think any group of people should have added protection under the law . If I am beat half to death the max they will get is 15 years . But the gay guy down the street they beat him half to death the perpetrator get the same 15 years plus an additional 10 more .

By adding more years to a sentence for the beating of a protected group under the hate crimes it is saying the act against him is worse than if it happened to a regular person That is giving them a special status over and above a regular citizen . We are suppose to be equal under the law

Okay, back to reality.

A general assault will land you AT MOST a few weeks in jail, probably not even that. You will end up on probation for 1 to 2 years and will pay a fine.

So in a country with a rising wave of crimes that target 'minority groups' (see those listed in hr 1913) there is a need to increase the punishments for assaulting these groups to teach those whom i like to refer to as the 'thumbless' that just because these people are different and you don't agree with how they live, you do NOT get to punch them in the face or anything of the like.

reply to post by Lostinthedarkness


seriously?

could you please link me to information on these amendments?

if they do exist i would really like to hear the justification for voting one way or another on them by our elected officials.

thanks lost

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Okay reread the article and now i see how vets and pedophiles got dragged into this, it was an act of 'framing' done by those who oppose the bill for obvious reasons. so in reality is has nothing to do with them other than the rights attempt to sensationalize the bill itself.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by Animal]

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


Yes it is but if convicted on those charges . They could still face an additional 10 years for violence against any of the mentioned groups if they could prove it was hate orientated .

reply to post by Animal


Well how do they know a person punched them in the face because of the way they live. Couldnt they just have easily punched them because they were angry about something they did or said. People have been fighting since the beginning of time.

AND

How is it any different if I get punched in the face because I wore an offensive t-shirt than if someone gets punched for their lifestyle choices. Maybe that t-shirt was my lifestyle choice.

We have had "Hate Crimes" enhancements, for some time now. Can the government show it has reduced crime, at all? No. It has got to be one of the most useless wastes of time and energy.

Vandalism is a crime. Assault is a crime. Murder is a crime. If a criminal is not deterred by these, adding the phrase "Hate Crime" is not going to matter. Particularly to an angry parent of a victim of a pedophile.

Aren't all crimes against persons "Hate Crimes"?

reply to post by Animal


I am going to have to dig on it I was at a customers house this afternoon and he had a channel like cspan on that played a tape of the role call for amendments to the bill like i reference before .

reply to post by Animal




They condemned House members who refused to provide the same protections for seniors, pregnant women and members of the military. Also rejected was an amendment that would have specified that pedophiles cannot claim any protection under the bill.

This is the part that is making this bill a very bad idea.

It protects a bunch of people, but it doesn't protect everyone.

This is a very bad thing if passed.

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
reply to post by Animal

 

Well how do they know a person punched them in the face because of the way they live. Couldnt they just have easily punched them because they were angry about something they did or said. People have been fighting since the beginning of time.

AND

How is it any different if I get punched in the face because I wore an offensive t-shirt than if someone gets punched for their lifestyle choices. Maybe that t-shirt was my lifestyle choice.

because very very often when someone attacks someone else for a bias they let them know. i mean come on mate, don't you get out much?

so you can create as many vague hypothetical situations as you like, it will not diminish the reality of everyday life.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by Animal]

reply to post by Animal it's simple, this bill doesn't protect the veterans from hate crimes. it's not a crime to hate our military? it's ok to spit on them or beat them up for serving our country? but if you hurt a sex offender you do extra time
this is rediculous, ask someone else

reply to post by Animal


Well my point was more how are you going to prove underlying motives in a court of law. Like if someone goes up and punches someone who is gay but never says why they did it, is it a hate crime? Or did he just happen to punch someone who is gay?

It is a hate crime to commit any kind of act of violence if they are-

Black
Latino
Asian
Mexican
Middle Eastern
Homosexual

Why not add White and have everyone covered? Then we wouldn't need to pass all these hate crime bills. We could just increase how much jail time one would get for any offense.

Its that simple. Just add whites.

I did a quick Ytube search and came up with 2 links I havent listened to them yet I think they might be what was televised one the pro vet and the other to exclude pedophiles the bill passed the house with out any amendments so neither was included in the bill . My ISP is dial up take for ever to down load ytubes

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Animal



My east indian buddies told me that white people are pussies, and they get accused of racism because they allow it. That's basicallya direct quote. We were all pretty young (16-17ish), but i've never forgotten that conversation. It made me realize how similiar we all are, in a way, because I'd long suspected they just used the racism word to annoy/ insult. And that's what they were doing. they never really thought anyone was racist. Just thought i'd share.

reply to post by jd140


they cant add white people.. if they did that who would they be able to punish. you know us white devils need to get some extra time isnt this some form of reverse discrimintaion.

So if someone punches me and just because i am white but not a minority than they dont get extra time.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


I'm actually thinking that it kind of is.

Everyone is covered unless you are straight and white. How else am I suppose to look at it?

reply to post by jd140


I just dont get it. If you are the type of person going around hurting people just because of race or orientation or whatever you have some problems and you are going to be spending a fair amount of time in jail during your life. Seriously how many people go around and hurt people jsut because of that. It has to be a super minority of the American public.

AND

Is it now going to be a crime to say jokes about peoples race or orientation. Because that is BS if that is a hate crime. Pretty soon we wont even be able to talk. I am white and I love when Chris Rock cracks on white people., black people, mexicans, gays, etc. That is funny as hell.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

Not surprised here...

Really, there are only crimes. What constitutes "hate crime" is mere opinion

White straight you are not one of the chosen ones sorry . Try again next time .

Now if you also own a small business then your are really out on a limb .

I have never cared about race treat me right and i treat you right this protected chosen few is semi solid bio - waste from a male bovine

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


It doesn't happen alot.

But the Hate Crime bill we currently have gets used alot.

This one made me laugh when I read it.

www.foxnews.com...

A gay black man beaten and chased into traffic by a few white men was put on trial for assault, murder and added on hate crime to the list.

Turns out during the trial one of the men was gay. How can that be a hate crime?

Check this quote out.

Prosecutors argue that Fortunato's sexual orientation is irrelevant.

"Under New York law, they said, defendants can be convicted of a hate crime even if they bear no actual hatred for their victim."

You can be convicted of a hate crime in NY even if you don't bear any hatred for that person.

How the hell is it a hate crime if you don't hate that person?