We must end the rising "culture of negativity" (SOLUTION POSTED)

Originally posted by quesioningall
But why police and delete that - because it was too far out there? But everyone's perception is different in what they think is "out there".

Obvious.

The nature of the thread was a potential set-up for the no-recruitment aspect of the Terms & Conditions. Broadly soliciting off-site real-life contact information, without permission, is not tolerated.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
We've often seen that conspiracists tend to anticipate preferential treatment, when they see "skeptics" not being driven away, or even tolerated, the assumption is that we favor skeptics.

Yes, but where does the line get drawn?

Aren't we all skeptical by nature?... Do we not doubt (by ourselves) many of the ideas and theories presented here and elsewhere?

It should be considered prudent -- how many people get to roam around here under the mask of "skepticism".

I disagree, skeptics are abundant here and on most/many other conspiracy forums, their voice is considered stronger, and even though they have nothing to offer, they are treated amicably, whilst the "believers" get treated like mental patients. Granted, there are indeed some really "out-there" people, but nobody should be allowed to act as a judge, or as a God. And skeptics are always allowed to get away with this behavior. Infact, that is the entire nature of the skeptics on forums like this one, and that is all they have to offer.

Tell me how many believers who have scared-off skeptics? ... Zilch!

Why is that?...Because believers never/rarely engage in the negative and rather-authoritarian behavior that skeptics are proud to define themselves by.

The premise of this website is supposed to be to explore areas of secrecy and possible conspiracy, even if it is all just speculation, this is the place where things should be different than regular life. Not the same old crap.

Skeptic and believer is a false duality. Most people on this site are skeptical of some issues, knowledgeable on a few and mostly undecided about the vast complexity of life that transcends those two categories. Very few fall into religious faith type belief mindsets. Reality is not that relative, it's probabilistic, and a logical mind can achieve certain degrees of certainty. Belief is irrational.

It is disrespective of one side of a debate to label them believers. A lot of these people know what they are talking about, and many back it up with various degrees of proof and fairly comprehensive evidence. As do the skeptics, although proving the negative is more problematic.

If anything, ad hoc skepticism is the most negative thing I can imagine on these boards, as it implies an a priori rejection of any evidence for the subjected being denied. And we do have our fair share of ad hoc skeptics.

I don't believe in UFO's, I've seen them (whatever they may be). I don't believe in chemtrails, I've witnessed them (whatever they may be), I don't believe in bigfoot, I actually do have large feet (whatever size the custom made shoe may be). "Belief" is a word that is thrown around with a certain degree of negativity around here, as those that do know that it's loaded with a preconditioned notion of religious fervour, which more often than not does not apply to the thread and poster in question.

Although sometimes it's accurate...

reply to post by Blogstalker

If you are looking to hang on to what you consider the most intellectual members your size will shrink not grow.

Yes, I was thinking about this, speaking of hurt feelings, it is not especially enjoyable to be one of the non-prolific enough to be thought of as a valuable member of a forum.

People are given many gifts, some are writers, some researchers, with a nose for truth, some are discerning, some are gifted with common sense, some come through the school of hard knocks.

Wisdom is gained through many avenues.

One can be a valuable contributor to a forum in order to maintain its high standards even with lack of certain skills.

I love to read humorous one liners, there are many layers to a forum, and it many members.



[edit on 063131p://bTuesday2009 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Yes, some of the smaller posts are indeed precious. Some people are gifted with the ability to say a lot with only a few words, something which I find my own posts lacking...

I remember one example when global warming was being discussed and one member was saying that the proliferation of solar powered appliances through a growing population would heat up the globe and another member replied "Why, they can't make solar powered air conditioning?" This simple yet devastating rebuttal made me smile all day.

Originally posted by Maxmars
This issue of fractiousness and friction is not really about negativity after all, is it? In the end, as Shrodinger's Dog opined, it's a more fundamental issue, one that casts it's shadow over all disagreements here.

Thank you sir.

I dare say that what I stated earlieralso applies to the believer/sceptic construct. Again both are relativistic terms that have no real meaning. After all we all possess these elements within ourselves, indeed no one is internally consistent to the degree that they either believe everything or nothing. In fact, other than choosing to perceive them as such, belief and scepticism are not contradictory in any way either internally or externally. Only when choosing to conceptualize them as such do they undertake a positive or negative form in the eyes of the interpreter.

Again, without wishing to be too abstract in my interpretations, the simple fact remains that terms like positive/negative mean absolutely nothing until one decides to acknowledge them as such. We read words on the screen, our interpretation of that reality is our responsibility.

reply to post by GateCrasher

I think most of what you are referring to is down to how committed you are to what you believe in.

Please this is no way directed at anyone in particular, but you can see in the way people post skeptic or believer, even non opinionated, some want to take part in the serious discussion, but only know how to do it their way, sadly a lot of that is dealing with it with negativity, I don't think I have seen a thread where it wasn't redirected in some way or another, we have all done it with related video's or a snippet of news we think will help, but they are mostly ignored and bypassed.

As for rewarding, I think they are rewarded for the good work they do, and I am an unmovable believer, I have no doubt in my mind about UFO's and ET, I think some of the 911 theories are way out there in lala land, still its an opinion.

If you look through the recent threads, there are many that have been posted with video's or pictures which look genuine and bring excitement that this could be the one, without the skeptics, my own judgement would come into question because I have fallen for some of them also.

When something is posted here, it is mostly because we question what we have seen, it is brought here to discover the truth, some however go way overboard with the its an obvious fake or its cgi, some without even reading the entire thread, it is that which becomes annoying, people forget that a lot of work goes into creating those threads, and some of the negativity comes from people who have never posted a thread ever, they just like to make it clear how clever they are they can show you its a fake, and sometimes that can be upsetting for everyone, especially when its clear they are wrong.

Away from the UFO's and 911, its the day to day events, almost everyone has a side, and wants the world to know which side it is, as we see with Obama threads, and Israel threads, it isnt hard to get your point across without ripping the crap out of someone, but saying that, retaliation against those comments is also negative.

Its a hard one to address IMO, leaving it alone will look like the green light to continue, but addressing it looks like taking sides, we are being asked what do we want to do to reduce it, that's better than just banning and restrictions, so how do we want it dealt with? do we even want to? I wouldn't mind if some where told to STFU, but I want skeptics and believers to keep it business as usual, I also want to see others opinions on almost everything, that is very important to me and many others.

Originally posted by WarmthofSunlight
It is disrespective of one side of a debate to label them believers. A lot of these people know what they are talking about, and many back it up with various degrees of proof and fairly comprehensive evidence. As do the skeptics, although proving the negative is more problematic.

Yes, it is always the believers who present the case. It is always the believers who offer something. They are always offering something in-favor of a possible conspiracy.

Whilst the skeptics (even if they do --on occasion-- offer opposing evidence), it's always Anti. It's nothing but an attempt to dis-prove. Is this a pro-conspiracy website or an anti-conspiracy website?

When all you try to do is disprove, you are left with nothing to label as genuine, every possible measure is taken to disprove everything here. The motto "deny ignorance" apparently means -- to try your best to disprove, and you'll be part of the big community here.

Tip #3

Remove the ignore button and replace it with the alert button, or have an alert sent to staff when a member is ignored.

If you see a number of members placing the same member on ignore perhaps you staff should at least look into it.

Would that make it easier for the staff to manage the situation?

Originally posted by GateCrasher
Why is that?...Because believers never/rarely engage in the negative and rather-authoritarian behavior that skeptics are proud to define themselves by.

Clearly, you've not spent much time in...
A "Billy Meier" thread,
A chemtrail thread,
A 9/11 "no-plane" thread,
A masonic conspiracy thread...
All of which are "off the top of my head" examples of where we often see the "true believers" being aggressively negative more often than not.

The issue here, is not who "believes" and who "does not," but how one habitually presents themselves within the discussions.

After reading through all 13 pages (sheesh that took forever!!), I tend to agree with those who have said to just enforce the current T&C's a bit more strictly. The rules work, but only as much as they are enforced.

I just can't get behind any type of karma or points system that allows others to judge what is worthy of being read and what isn't. What one person believes is utter crap, another might see as something to think about at the very least. Our current system of flagging threads we find important works well enough for that purpose while still leaving threads we don't feel are important in place for others who may think they are. As for the individual post, it would invariably result in cliques rampaging through the boards giving negative karma to every post ever made by someone they don't like.

A large chunk of the negativity that I have seen is in response to attacks against someone's character or intelligence, or in response to being labeled. Stop the attacks, and the negativity will lighten considerably.

reply to post by GateCrasher

Originally posted by GateCrasher
I disagree, skeptics are abundant here and on most/many other conspiracy forums, their voice is considered stronger, and even though they have nothing to offer, they are treated amicably, whilst the "believers" get treated like mental patients.

I don't think any particular "side" (not that i see it as sides) has their voice heard more than any other.
I thinks Skeptics are far more valuable than you would like to admit..

The skeptic researches facts and explanations and looks at things objectively and thinks about them critically.
If it wasn't for skeptics.... how would we know things were fake?
How would certain hoaxes and BS stories/theories get debunked?

Granted, there are indeed some really "out-there" people, but nobody should be allowed to act as a judge, or as a God. And skeptics are always allowed to get away with this behavior. Infact, that is the entire nature of the skeptics on forums like this one, and that is all they have to offer.

I don't think anybody does act as judge or god.... everybody has their own opinion and their own reasoning.
It's just usually the case that on a thread titled " i have a friend who is an alien and he told me...." you're going to get a fairly high number of people who wish to question this and probably be pretty harsh to the OP.

And again....as my post above shows....skeptics offer far more than you give credit for.

Tell me how many believers who have scared-off skeptics? ... Zilch!
Why is that?...Because believers never/rarely engage in the negative and rather-authoritarian behavior that skeptics are proud to define themselves by.

Some of the most negative replies I've seen have come from what you are calling "believers"
Things like "you're a closed minded, ignorant fool" and " you probably would have kept people believing the earth was flat" and other such nonsense.

I don't know of any skeptic who doesn't believe in some theory or another....who doesn't wish for the elusive proof or truth to be presented.

It's better to be skeptical, than to believe every bit of garbage that comes out and every hoax....just on the off chance that it may be true.
Question....research.....debate.... simple.

The premise of this website is supposed to be to explore areas of secrecy and possible conspiracy, even if it is all just speculation, this is the place where things should be different than regular life. Not the same old crap.

Yeah it may be to explore areas of secrecy and conspiracy....but not while just blindly believing and following every loon and bit of rubbish.

Wouldn't you rather know the truth....than just blindly believe some absolute BS??


I really don't get your reasoning.





[edit on 5/5/09 by blupblup]

reply to post by Stormdancer777


I feel your "pain" I am not a very prolific poster but I do spend a fair amount of time reading all parts of the forum.

Although posting looks good and makes others think that "you" are a great member. All the readers add to the stats...as hits, page loads etc. If people stopped reading, the stats, I imagine, would drop quite a bit.

(sorry if my terms are incorrect "hits and page loads") but I think you get my point..so I would like to think all are important to the how the site appears on paper.

After giving my opinion once in this thread, and after having read all (so far) 14 pages of responses within this thread, it has become blatently clear to me why it is I shy away from these Board Business and Question threads in the first place.

SO : Question Du jour.

Poster : Yea but you.....

SO : No I don't

Poster : But your mods do...

SO : No, they try really hard not to

Poster : But in such and such a thread...

SO : And this is why we have (anti-such and such button) to deal with it...

Poster : And the other day, in thread Proof of Nibiru bouncing off the moon someone made me feel like...


Am I the only one that sees this as particularly childish?
Maybe the Question should REALLY have been SOOO binary that it was multiple choice, to prevent 14 pages of this nonsense, these Gentlemen who have GRACED us with a site that the majority of us find invaluable, meanwhile they ask a simple question and it seems that they almost have to justify their very existence.....

I dunno, this is what I, thus far, have taken away as a wrap-up from this thread.

[/rant]


AB1

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
behavior that skeptics are proud to define themselves by.
Clearly, you've not spent much time in...
A "Billy Meier" thread,
A chemtrail thread,
A 9/11 "no-plane" thread,
A masonic conspiracy thread...
All of which are "off the top of my head" examples of where we often see the "true believers" being aggressively negative more often than not.

On the contrary, these topics have not escaped me. For the record, I don't believe in any of those conspiracies you listed. However...

I've witnessed a Billy Meier thread get deleted. Then, it was reopened, but slapped with a big fat [HOAX] label. And it is still closed, no one is allowed to post in it.

Whether the Meier case really is a hoax or not, it certainly has not been adequately disproven, and when I see something get buried, then I start to wonder if there is any merit to it, putting "beamships" aside.

The only negativity I saw in that thread was on-part of the skeptics, and of course one of the owners. Who clearly took sides.

The believers (about 2 of them) we're speaking in the utmost of respect, and delivered some pretty compelling posts that makes one reconsider, that is - if one actually has an open mind.

The believers did nothing wrong, but their thread got deleted... why?

Skeptics go into every single thread here mocking the OP, deflecting, etc . But they get all the stars in a matter of seconds sometimes. Far outweighing the believers.

It is not I who came up with these crude labels: "skeptic"/"believer". I learned this from ATS. The only place where such Borg-like labels exist.

reply to post by GateCrasher


Really then my friend, you seem like you very much dislike your experience here on ATS. Perhaps then if you have such a problem with the way things are run, you should find another outlet for this information.

Obviously we are not up to par with your standards, with the biased staff and constant suppression of speech or ideas.

~Keeper

I don't know, I was just starting to become more active here...

But now?

I enjoy reading as wide a variety of posts as possible, from the funny, short, yet on-target responses, to the longer, articulate, and more descriptive posts (although I have to admit that reading longer posts can become tedious...I'm pressed for time lately)...and some posts can be more negative and fearful and some can be more positive and uplifting...as are people in general! Variety is the spice of life...each person is unique and contributes in their own special way...

But at least ATS prevents violent threats, swear words, and other negative behavior, to a far greater degree than some forums on the Internet (have you been to some of those? swear words all over the place, filthy language, name calling and mean, hateful behavior...)

I think things are fine as they are now on ATS.

And actually, to be completely honest, I haven't really noticed a higher amount of negative posts...maybe someone could provide an example thread?

If there is a rise in negative posts this is probably due to the underlying current of dismay and disgust at present conditions around the world.

But if more is done to prevent people from expressing their feelings and opinions above what is already being done, I'm not sure I'll want to come here anymore...there's always yahoo "buzz up"...and that's just my 2 cents...

A very simple and democratic solution to policing this problem would be to add a voting system for each person's postings. You might make it a 1000 point system.

Start everyone off with the standard font and a rating of 1000, for evey 100 negativity votes, they loose one font size in their postings on all threads. for every 100 positivity votes, they get one point back in their font size. Diminished content equals diminished font size.

Realizing that there will be a rare few bad people who abuse this, anyone with a rating below 800 does not get to vote at all.

Each voter has a pool of 2 votes, they start out with the ability to cast 1 positive or 1 negative.

If you cast a positive vote, you toggle the positive vote in your 2 vote pool to a negative, giving you two negatives available.

If you cast a negative vote you can now cast a positive or negative vote again. Cast both as negative, and you have to positive votes in your pool.

The pool never runs out, but you are forced to maintain balance in your voting.

With such a system balance is maintained and flooding negativity or positivity becomes impractical.

The beauty is that it is completely community driven. It does require some coding but once in place it is self sustaining.



[edit on 5-5-2009 by Cyberbian]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Really then my friend, you seem like you very much dislike your experience here on ATS.

I never said that I disliked my experience here. However I'm speaking candidly, isn't that allowed-- as opposed to all the members here trying to attain higher positions?...At least my goal is pure and honest. I won't suck-up to the owners any day of the year if I am to be honest and forthcoming with my opinion.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
That's what makes ATS so great... I love these outlandish topics.

It's part of what makes conspiracy theories. It's all about what is possible... if the world wasn't so negative or such a bad place people would be less negative.

There is nothing we can do about it... lying about it won't make things better.

Perhaps it´s the other way around, perhaps the world would be "better" and more positive if people were not so negative?

Is this world really a bad place?