The Growing Discontent

reply to post by dooper


Well, I just got in here tonight and started reading through all of this. Sorry if I missed something!

Edit to ad: Well, I'm going to bed now. Ya'll have fun storming the castle and all. I'll be looking for the news of it in the morning! Get busy!

[edit on 4-5-2009 by drumist69]

reply to post by drumist69


You think we can accomplish more by voting? By sitting around and waiting four more years until we get to choose another hand picked "representative" that is supposed to collectively harbor to our views; that is the views of true freedom?

I'm not sure exactly where you have been, but that method doesn't exactly work anymore. Nor did it work for very long in the first place. The entire system is so corrupt now that the only people who are able to get involved in any kind of game changing position, are those who are first approved by the PTB. Don't you see? Unless we do something about it, the trend will only continue, and each period of time we wait it will continue to get worse until they get what they want. And once we give in to that, well then... then it is simply too late. Hope will be gone.


Do you know why there are so many "blood and guts revolution" stories around? Because people are oppressed. People are treated in a way that people aren't meant to be treated. America was formed to move away from the classed based society of monarchaic rule that swept over every other land. It was meant to be a land where everyone could be free, everyone could have and equal chance, and everyone had unrivaled rights that each, no matter of origin, skin color, religion, or background - should be omitted.

Do you see that today? Can you honestly look around you, even in your local societies and see even a FRAME of that supposed work today? No - because it is gone. It has been gone a long time. We have become the England that our ancestors left behind, no, we have become worse. And the worst part is that people feel that they can do nothing about it.





The reason a revolution can and will work is because the government relies on the military to get their dirty work done. What they always seem to overlook, is the fact that the military is made up of the people of this country, just like you and I. They aren't idiots. Of course there will be some that follow their governments into anything, but I assure you, those that see the light that is to come will choose the side that is more deserving - that stands for the greater good.



Some ask who would stand up to lead, I'm sure many would. But if there is no one to volunteer than I volunteer my life. For right now I am willing to sacrifice that life for the betterment of humanity. Not just for some kind of better treatment or new government structure, but for the hope of all mankind so that they might live a life that we have only dreamed of.

Why would I be worthy? I'm not. No one is worthy to lead the masses because as people we are all one. I would not lead to throw orders, to gain power, but to unite under a single banner, with ideals that would make people shiver with anticipation, so much that the cost would be meaningless, but the rewards for the future generations - our sons, daughters, grandchildren, great grandchildren - all that follow us will be able to live free as we were supposed to have done. And maybe... with the hope that some of us might live to see that day ourselves.

I think of all the blood that has been spilt over pointless and needless struggles in this country, in this entire world, and I see that giving a life for something as great as the visions I see, would be the least I can do for this planet, and God who has given me this life. In order to honor the legacy of those who fought in the past for the same things we fight for today - that is our duty... our tribute to THEIR sacrifice.

I was an atheist for six years, but something converted me back. Something greater then myself told me to fight. I plan to fight until my dying breath and lead those who wish to fight alongside me... brothers in humanity until the very end.

That... is my vision. My dream.

reply to post by grover


The energy at the Tea Parties was no arm chair warriors. It was real, organized,national, and ...absolutely peaceful. The discontent is not a threat of force but of political will. There were as many lefties as righties there where I was, and all felt the government was stepping on us. As unemployment, taxes, and regulation expands people are going to be more and more dissatisfied with the Overbearing government and stand up to it through there votes and support. 2010,2012 will be wake up calls to both parties as people show they will take it no more.

reply to post by grover


Just make sure you don't get in our way when the time comes to reclaim the country you coward. The last thing this country needs is more know-nothing pretentious whiners to telling the VICTIM to put down their weapons when the CRIMINAL is still inside the house, invading your property and harming your loved ones. Some have stupid little agenda driven crusades, such as the liberals, and yes, even the so called "republicans" but then there are some of us who have real causes to fight and believe me, it's not a decision that is easily made, nor wanted, but sometimes we HAVE to. Of course the so called "peace loving" hippies will never understand it.

As I pointed out, when the time comes, if you're not going to help, just get out of the way. There won't be time to deal with cowards who don't have a country or a worthy cause to fight for.

reply to post by gwydionblack


We don't need your communist garbage, our republic was fine until the bankers and the elite came in and started pulling strings. Now they want to do exactly what communist countries do and take ALL the power for the state alone, and give the people the bread crumbs after. We can't have that trash here and we shouldn't have it.

Trash capitalism all you want, but it has helped incentivize people into becoming better, inventive, competitive and productive members of society. It promoted the pursuit of your dreams while at the same time remaining, if you so wish, to become an engaged member of your community. Communism only promotes that you do only the jobs you are told to do, same wages regardless of skill or production, and hey, if you don't work? that's ok, you get paid to be a bum too. Sorry but that is pretty pathetic. It centralizes EVERYTHING on the state, which only makes it easier for corrupt politicians to take us back into the dark ages. Keep your communist manifesto and shove it! I'd rather do as the founding fathers said and follow the "pursuit of happiness" If you think that is a selfish sentiment, then you are simply NOT a human being.

A growing discontent indeed!

I have read just about every post. To those who think this is strictly a Right vs. Left you could not be further from the truth. However, if you believe socialism or fascism will continue once the smoke clears, you might not be seeing things so clearly even now.

I hope like hell a civil war never comes to this country. I hope that our citizens wake up and stop wanting everything for nothing. Stop thinking the government is their answer. All government is, is a small group of people, paper, and a promise. That's it! Some how there are those in America who believe government is some entity that came from the ethos. And these people are now giving power to a government who is all to willing to take advantage of their ignorance. While those who know the truth are just about ready to say, "By god that is enough!"

My greatest fear is there will be a civil war in this country. I pray that does not happen, but if it does, so help me god I will stand with the citizens. If a state secedes I will move to and protect that states right to secede from a federal government who is abusing its privileges. That's right I said privileges. The federal government has stolen our rights, but more importantly, States have allowed the federal government to turn them, the states, into the weaker of the two powers, when our founding fathers never ever meant that to be the truth. And to those who think the civil war decided that truth, well that is just a lie. The Constitution allows for one way, and one way only, for our Bill of Rights to be removed. Read the 10Th Amendment. Understand why state reps are pushing so hard. What I fear is if the federal government keeps taking and giving itself more power, like forced socialized health-care... and no state secedes, I fear people throughout the country are going to go nucking futs because they will feel the last layer of betrayal has finally come to terms... And from there a French Revolutionary style uprising will happen. I pray I am wrong. But somehow I see that happening as clear as if I am watching a history movie of our future.

SgtChas and Dooper I so agree with what both of you have stated throughout this thread. Along with a lot of what others have said, its just your two names stuck in my brain. I look forward to reading what everyone else has to say about this very serious issue/possible future.

--Charles Marcello

[edit on 5-5-2009 by littlebunny]

When one is faced with bleak alternative choices, it is the nature of the domesticated within civilization to ignore the obvious signs of trouble and choose to create ones own reality, perhaps even projecting a veneer of normality to squeeze out any last moment possible of the status quo; we humans are contemptuous of any change, let alone the uncertainty of the animating contest of freedom. We ridicule the messengers of the obviously approaching storm while attempting to maintain normalcy within our sphere of influence, attacking with gusto any who would discomfort our struggle to maintain the alternate reality that all is well.

Now however what is at stake is not just the discomfort of temporary change, nor some switch to a European socialist model in a not too painful remaking of American society; no this is a struggle for the very soul of all that means to be American, a down sizing of the American dream into an equal outcome one state of many states of the world; the breaking and force fitting of American exceptionalism into the mould of equal world states.

There will be no second place prizes in this coming struggle and no place to totally hide from its effects. There will be only three players: the wolves, sheep and sheep dogs. No quarter asked and none given. The only question then is which one of the three players will you be?

reply to post by SGTChas

There will be no second place prizes in this coming struggle and no place to totally hide from its effects. There will be only three players: the wolves, sheep and sheep dogs. No quarter asked and none given. The only question then is which one of the three players will you be?

I'm going to be the guy that is standing in front of his house and family, challenging you and anybody else that walks up. I believe in the rule of law; without it, we have absolutely no chance at all.

Promoting violence against some nebulous enemy, relying on the military to support you, and marching ahead with no plan for the aftermath is both silly and immature.

Let me tell you, if my child needed surgery that he couldn't get because somebody decided to blow up the grid, look out. I'll come looking for whomever did it, and it won't be to play canasta.

I'm sure you can think of a thousand other scenarios where you will be called upon to answer for.

And I don't care if I'm not on some u2u list of pretty people. I'm as patriotic and pissed off as anyone here. But I'm not going to follow some Pied Piper into destroying our nation.

America is not "the government". It is, always was, and always will be, the people.

Once you start tearing apart this nation from within, other countries will be watching and smiling like a cat playing with a wounded mouse. They will be glad to encourage you to destroy the nation - then they will walk in and pick up the pieces for their own purposes.

Think about it.

reply to post by Question


Communist garbage? In the states you have the left wing, the right wing- the Democrats the Republicans, and the moment you leave people seem to drift back to the old fear model - Capitalism vs Socialism.

Because I say capitalism doesn't work, does that mean I am all for socialism? It must, right? Because after all that is the only alternative. I couldn't possibley call for humans to do something for themselves for once and maybe, JUST MAYBE, come up with a system that will work - that will give all the liberties as promised while at the same time, holding those leading us astray accountable.

Oh, sure, capitalism, unchecked, has lead many people to dreams of fruition that they could only hope to attain, while at the same time creating a large diversity between the people than the upper and lower classes of times of old.

Some of you people who claim to be "awake" are still feeding on the unchecked propaganda that has filled the airwaves. Socialism is bad. Subsidized health will keep you safe. War is necessary. THESE are all century old ideals thathumans REFUSE to learn from because we have the ideals shoved down our throats over and over again.

I am not for socialism or capitalism. And if you say those are the only two choices - you are dead wrong. I AM for fundamentalism. Taking caring of the people first and foremost and making sure whatever rights were promised to them are upheld to the maximum degree.



To those that think a rival country will just swoop in and pick up the pieces? We would have just taken out the most powerful armed force on the planet... I know I would certainly have better thoughts than to attempt something so unintelligent.



So many people wanting to fight but for all the wrong reasons - only to repeat history as always. Human beings are hopeless. This is why the PTB have gained control in the first place.

Originally posted by reluctantpawn

O.K. now that we agree to disagree.

Honestly, I don't think we need to go that far my friend.

I can say with confidence that I do not disagree with you. Some would mistake my reluctance to charge into a situation without proper design as a sign for inaction.

I clearly can't speak for anyone else but for myself, everything happens for me by design, clear cut calculation, and a virtual "spotter" if you will.
I need the spotter for the RtT, the wind, the humidity, the lateral motion, all the coefficients long before I take the first shot. Part and parcel to that is also knowing when not to take it as well. Often that ensures that another day, you can.

Among a long list of oooops's one should never make is "invading Russia in the winter". Obviously this is merely symbolic, but I'm sure you see the relevance.

What do *I* prefer? It's very simple...I prefer they never see me coming, I don't need a battle that proclaims "see what we've done now? We've taken back our country!! Oooh Rah!" and that, at what cost unnecessarily?

I'm sorry, I think that when the time comes and neccesity prevails, we certainly need far more than a group of radical militant yahoo's with some decent armament and a death wish at the forefront of a battle that would change the course of our history and our way of life forever.


AB1

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by SGTChas

 

There will be no second place prizes in this coming struggle and no place to totally hide from its effects. There will be only three players: the wolves, sheep and sheep dogs. No quarter asked and none given. The only question then is which one of the three players will you be?

Promoting violence against some nebulous enemy, relying on the military to support you, and marching ahead with no plan for the aftermath is both silly and immature.
Once you start tearing apart this nation from within, other countries will be watching and smiling like a cat playing with a wounded mouse. They will be glad to encourage you to destroy the nation - then they will walk in and pick up the pieces for their own purposes.

Think about it.

We have had our disagreements jsobecky but not in this case. Your voice of reason is refreshing.

Originally posted by whaaa
We have had our disagreements jsobecky but not in this case. Your voice of reason is refreshing.

I would like to echo this sentiment, JSobecky and I have rarely seen eye to eye, but sincerely, it IS a very refreshing voice of reason.


AB1

reply to post by alphabetaone


I apologize for misreading you then. I do not think anyone here is ready to go attack Washington, but they are ready to defend themselves and their country. These guys probably know all about sneak and peaks, I know I do. Without a doubt there is more thought going into this than what appears.

What would happen if in a Ruby Ridge type incident an armed populace showed up to oversee the feds? What would happen if a large enough group decided not to disperse? There are many things that first must happen, but by and large the people are getting fed up. It will overflow into the streets soon.

However even with the discontentment that is brewing no one wants to see our form of government fail. It was and is a great idea, but the founding fathers also knew what was going to happen. We need torte reform. We need judicial reform, we need to get rid of the Federal Reserve, and we need social reform. We need to get back to states rights, and relimit the power of the fed.

We can make it work. What it will take is a willingness of the people to sacrifice for the betterment of all. We need to stop ultranational business and bring it back home. We must stop the buying up of U.S. properties by non U.S entities. I am not for isolationism but for fairness. When we learn to stand on our own feet again we can once again spread out.

Unfortunately greed and selfishness have come home to roost. The American people must get over this as well. We are our brothers keeper but only to a point. We must teach and relearn self sufficiency to get back what was lost.

Whatever happens it is going to be a long uphill struggle. Our government will fail if something is not done and soon. It will not necessarily take an armed uprising to do this, however one might speed it along. It just seems that revolution may be the only way to get everyones attention.

No one has all the answers. But some of us have some of the answers. They are not from any party or even ideology. However all through history our form of government has been the best to arise. It still may be the best there is, it just needs a lot of TLC. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak.

As you can see the anger is rising, the time is close at hand. However don't think that all will be chaos for long. But it may have to happen to start over again. The founding fathers had the right idea, we just need to cautiously bring it into the twentyfirst century.

I am sure some will take exception to this post and come back with certain fallacies. This was not intended for an end all be all, just as I think this post was not intended for a call to arms and a massive attack on the PTB.

No war is fought without planning and this will not be either. There is always a method to the madness. Revolution can come in many forms. One of them just happens to be armed.

Many people on both the right and left are starting to come together on this. Let's not let some idiots say it is a partisan effort or sour grapes because someone lost an election. It started many years ago and has fallen from the neglect of partisanship, selfishness, and greed. Instead of working to advance the welfare of the people, our elected officials have worked to line their pockets and get re-elected.

I hadn't meant for this post to jump around so much, but there is way too much to be brought forth in so little space and time. Do not think those of us ready to stand up are ill prepared for what may come.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by SGTChas


SGTChas, I agree with every word you said. We the People are the protectors of our Constitution and Bill of Rights, we are the defenders of it, and we are the Owners of it. The ones who pretend to lead us, and keep money in our accounts and pockets are there because we allow them to be. They, and I use that word loosely, are We the People's employees, not our Masters. We are allowing them them track us everywhere we go, and we are allowing them to take away our ability to purchase or even make ammunition for our weapons. Shall we just lay down, and let them walk all over us? I was in the military, and I took an Oath to support and defend the Constitution for all comers, be they foreign or domestic. That is the only oath I ever took, and I take it seriously. And THEY FEAR US. They fear what we can become, when all of our lost abilities and faculties come back to us. This will happen, and they cannot stop it. This is the reasoning for all the distractions that are beamed at us every day on our many electronic devices that we cannot live without. There is an Agenda, people, and denying it will not make it go away.

Here is what I, one person, wants to happen. I want a peaceful separation of the individual States from the CORPORATION UNITED STATES, and an end to the Federal Reserve Bank and the Internal Revenue Service, and a seizure of all their assets, both on shore and off shore. I want to see the United States Treasury take back the right that only they are supposed to have, and again coin American money based of gold and silver, interest free money. A flat consumer tax that everyone pays. An off-set plan for the poor and disabled so they will not have to pay all the tax. An end to income tax. An end to the American police force known as the US Army and National Guard trying to police the world, and let them guard our Borders and Ports instead. A return to the American Common Law, and an end to Federal law altogether in the individual States. A new Confederation between all States that gives each a say in leadership, and the installation of a new Congress of and by the people, no lawyers allowed ever. A return to the small farm, and the growing of hemp by same, and the building of plants to process hemp into paper, clothing, and the many other products it can be made into. And end to the monopoly of the Pharmaceutical companies in America, and a strong Food and Drug Administration with teeth, so that all food and drugs are safe for us.
And end to the Rich Elite Banking Industry, and a return to small banks. The ability for the States to deal on the International Market, or with each other. A return to American manufacturing, we use to make the best stuff in the world, we can do this again. No more imported cheap, slave labor produced products. And end to the introduction of Fluoride and other nasties into the drinking water, and strict standards for the water. And end to government borrowing from entitlements such as social security, and a plan to let social security stand alone and make money on the market.

This is a part of my America, the way I would like to see it.

Here's a couple of things I think worth mentioning on this particular topic as well.

If you haven't already, read through this entire thread. During that, take note of all the countering opinions and, more specifically, those who are radically for one mindset or have a solid stance, versus the others.

Now, imagine that on a National scale. THAT is exactly what would be the aftermath of such a poorly designed prepubescent tantrum takeover of the Government.

Everyone would think (whether or not they truly believe it notwithstanding) that they have the absolute "idea" as to the direction that we should NOW be heading in. Obviously those "ideas" would be pulled apart from the inside as, not everyone would have the same vision. Sure, they would have been the band of brothers DURING any conflict, however afterwards? Afterwards they would be in the same turmoil but now with 300 million people that, their decisions from that point forwards, whose lives hang in the balance. Lives that are no longer collecting their social security, or their unemployment, or their pensions, or their healthcare. But, certainly I'm sure the militant factions have that all worked out right? Perhaps truckloads of cash and food, and Healthcare camps (some might call them FEMA concentration camps so be careful) and mobile transports that deliver these staples of life to those who actually can't make it out on their own to "home deliver" these things to them. Of course, mobile education units right? To keep the kids in school?

By this time the Economy has COMPLETELY collapsed as all of the foreign investors have completely lost faith in the US to make good on the bonds that are being held by them. Have no fear though, I know for certain that these same militant new leaders of the free world have an economic plan that not only repairs but completely invigorates AND surpasses the expectations of our (now defunct) economic system that will benefit all of our citizens.


Seriously need I go on? I think not, I think the point is pretty vivid.

SHOW ME the plan...
SHOW ME the aftermath....
SHOW ME the grand design for reparation...
SHOW ME the end benefit (or lets call it ROI)...

After which, count me in when it's approved by ALL, has roots in common sense, and shows that it WILL allow for three things.... Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of HAPPINESS



AB1

reply to post by gwydionblack

To those that think a rival country will just swoop in and pick up the pieces? We would have just taken out the most powerful armed force on the planet... I know I would certainly have better thoughts than to attempt something so unintelligent.

This assumption will be your failure. Do not equate this battle of forces with the American Revolution when we broke away from England. It's not even close; I shouldn't have to elaborate on how uneven it would be.

You are relying on the assumption that our military would not open fire on their countrymen. Did you ever consider whether you would be willing to fire upon your own son or daughter that happened to be in the military? How about your neighbor's daughter or son? How long do you think your coalition would stick together when your neighbor found out that you shot and killed their son?

reply to post by alphabetaone


While I definitely agree with what you are saying, that with out a clear vision any revolution aftermath would be a toss up.

First of all what is our alternative? As the saying goes, you usually end up where you are headed and currently we are on the both to totalitarianism with a loss of all civil liberties, financial freedoms, and privacy in general. We are headed down a path that will widen the gap between the poor and rich even more allowing for the destruction of the middle class among many other issues.
Endless wars, constant stealing of the people's wealth, etc., etc., etc.

This is not an acceptable alternative to me.

In reality there does not have to be much of a plan except to restore what was originally put in place that would be our Constitution. This was one of the most brilliant documents ever devised and applies 100 percent in all applications today.

That being said, obviously in any revolution there will be some pain to be endured in damage to infrastructure and quality of life being disturbed. Again what is better? A temporary interruption to normal life or a life time of outright servitude and slavery?

reply to post by jsobecky


This is definitely a good point. However I believe that if the Military were to side with the people, the people would realize this VERY quickly and embrace it. That is however, quite a big assumption to gamble on....

I've thought to myself for several years now, that the only way the tide can ultimately turn, is for our very own military to turn on itself from within..

a civil war today would look nothing like the first one -- urban areas could be wiped out in an instant, so-called 'flanks' decimated in seconds, etc. we would be fighting a much different enemy in terms of military might..

..which is why I believe we must implore the current ranking members of our armed forces, both at home and abroad, to actively and verbally join our cause.. or, perhaps, quietly organize within their own ranks to turn on their leaders who give the 'orders'..

..not saying this would be easy, but how can we fight against weapons of mass destruction with a bunch of pistols and shotguns?

..moreover, if we were to adopt the 'revolution of consciousness' idea, could we really wake up enough people to tip the scales? I can't even get my family to listen to me, let alone my community...

..the system must implode on itself, and when it does, we must be ready to step in, without fear..

reply to post by TXTriker


My son is in the army and has told me the same thing. The people that think the armed forces have been brainwashed into following every order will have a real eye-opener if things ever reach the SHTF stage. They are people with consciences and the majority of them will refuse an illegal order, and I'm sure, relieve the one giving the order of his leadership.

I have the utmost faith that when push comes to shove, the biggest portion of our military will stand with it's citizens.