The Growing Discontent

Originally posted by consciencious observer
reply to post by nenothtu

 

hey chu guy why not use your abilities to help prevent the worst from happening instead of just preparing for it. dont you think this will be far more productive for all



NOTE: i say this not only to this guy but to all that give a d@mn

Perhaps because I have no faith in their willingness to listen to mere words. Hasn't worked out so well so far, has it?

Maybe I'm just tired of living? (hint: nope, that ain't it, but I'm sure some think so)

Maybe I realize that bubblegum and bailing wire are no substitute for a brand new part.

Take your pick. When I think they're listening, I'll be willing to talk to 'em.

nenothtu out

reply to post by alphabetaone


People keep saying this... however the only organization in the USA more well armed than the citizens is the military.

I know many many people who are probably better armed than an entire swat unit in any major police department. Military aside the armed citizens of the United States FAR outnumbers and far out guns all government entities combined even assuming NONE of them follow their oath.

The military personnel are our sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, wives, husbands, etc. The same can be said for our Police.

Who's side do you think they will be on? Some bureaucrat in Washington D.C. or their family?

As far as I am concerned the ones who can out gun the citizens of the United States of America, have 3 options, point their guns at the citizens, point their guns at TPTB in defense of and along side the citizens, or to not pick them up at all. 2 of those options allows 'us' the citizens to still out gun the Government by any standards or means of measurement.

If the United States Army and Marines have the M1A1's pointed at "them", then it might even become unnecessary to fire a single shot.


[edit on 4-5-2009 by Anonymous Avatar]

Great post! I've been very wary these last few months as I also see the growing discomfort among even those Americans who have buried their heads in the sands all these years. I honestly believe that this is because, while Bush was paving the road for the next administration in terms of enacting certain laws, legislation, and executive orders, Obama is the one traveling on that road with a smug look on his face.

Most people didn't know what Bush was doing behind closed doors (of course those of us on ATS sure did!). Now they see Obama exercising them and understand what the rest of us have been going on and on about for the last 8 years.

I also agree that we need to drop this partisan BS. It really is dragging the country down to a despicable level.

We've all been watching with amazement as the politicians have been blatantly circumventing the constitution, enacting laws and acts that the VAST majority of Americans been fervently against with nary a flinch while voting "yay".

Currently in my state, our governor just vetoed over 30 bills in two days because the legislature will not pass the gas tax that he wants to raise funding to fix our roads. The constituency has let their voices be heard over and over again loud and clear and, thankfully, some of the representatives are listening to us and refusing to vote for the bill. In an act of revenge the governor vetoed several bills that were passed that gave appropriations to other projects. The amount of money it has taken to keep the representatives here is mind boggling but the governor REFUSES to let them leave until they say yes. They have voted SIX TIMES and the result is always the same.

This is just a microcosm of what is going on in Washington. We saw this with the bailout and the FISA act. We told them no! but they still said yes. Except here in my state our representatives are actually listening to us but the governor doesn't give a hoot.

Just for the record. Those times I had a gun in my hand, my words were carefully considered by those I was addressing.

Some folks don't think you're serious until they see you're serious.

reply to post by nenothtu



so instead of speaking to the people themselves speak to your friends and urge your friends to speak to their friends and tell them to act diligently just as well as intelligently and help them understand that there are better ways you just have to go out and look for them instead of staying couped up in your home with a rifle, or a semi-auto, or a pea-shooter even

instead of doing this why not go out and search for the solutions to their problems using wat has been given to them throughout their life in a peaceful and understanding way....and also spread the knowledge that their are those that are working ever so readily to come in before we have to turn our guns and return the planet back to its own righteous balance but just know that these people need time, resources, and faith just as any venture needs so please everyone just help by waiting as long as possible before turning to the guns this is all i ask and when the time comes to look for the light in the darkness they will be there to stand for the true and tride way of life and will abolish the darkness and bring forth the light to all


i know this sounds a bit prophetic but is not the next three years been the talk of prophecy for centuries

JC


[edit on 4-5-2009 by consciencious observer]

To those that keep saying "this isn't the 1700's the army is better armed" yadda yadda. Firstly, you forget your history, Britain was indeed better armed and better supplied than the colonists. They did NOT play on an "even" field and if you think so, you've deluded yourself. Many colonists had to scrap and scrounge as much as they could for weapons were as the british already had powerful fleets of ships, more cannons, ammo etc. Not to mention that they also had to fight against other colonists as well (the green jackets, a.k.a the loyalists to the british crown) The colonists didn't have this privilege of better well supplied armament, yet they still sent the king's men packing out of sheer will and desire for a better life.

Secondly, if you're too afraid to fight because the army is "better armed" then FINE, go hide in a ditch somewhere like Hussein did so you can be caught and killed, die like a coward if that's what you preffer. But me, I will die standing with my boots on. All my life I've been presented with conflicts against other men who were always taller, stronger, "meaner" and yet I still put up a fight and in many cases, I won. NEVER underestimate the strength and will of a man that has heart, you'd be surprised. So yes, we may not have the weaponry the army has, but you'd be surprised what even ordinary men can do when faced with the destruction of their home and loved ones, and have to find a means to survive.

Originally posted by whaaa
What I fear about this "discontent" is that it will eventually be directed at people of color and become racially motivated: Especially with the current feeling against "illegals". Paranoia strikes deep, into your lives it will creep.
The cities will burn and the infrastructure will crumble in the ensuing "race riots"

Is this what you want? Because this will not be a return to freedom unless you consider anarchy and chaos freedom.

The tea parties were just a test run for the media and TPTB.

They needed to see just how many people they could get riled up and then bring to the streets.

Like the Pied Piper they are playing the tune that many of the discontents want to hear. They are looking for someone to blame and a way to burn off their anger and frustrations

This is how lynch mobs get starter, how gang rapes occur, as well as arson.

They think that they are taking back control but they are only being more controlled and manipulated then they have ever been and it is not only going to cost them their freedoms it is going to cost them their lives.

reply to post by reluctantpawn


Ok....you guys go about you business then.

Please do let me know how that works out for ya ?


AB1

Originally posted by malcr
Let's play the numbers game here. If it is true that there is a substantial proportion of the population who is disillusioned with the current system then surely you can vote to change it. I'll refer to this group as the Tea Party (why not?). So if the Tea Party is a minority what gives them the right to dictate to the majority. The answer is none. No minority has the right to overrule a majority. Irrespective of which side you are on ...tough. However if the Tea Party is a majority then it must have at least 51% of the voters in support. So a rough guess (not knowing the demographics of the US population) would be around 100 million voters. If each voter donated $10 to the tea Party they would have a 1Billion dollar chest to fight elections. That is more than enough to run a campaign. However, you don't really need anywhere near that amount since 51% would vote for the tea Party candidiate even there was no publicity whatsoever.

So the numbers don't add up. A majority wanting change can implement change democratically with a minimal amount of money. I'm not sure what it costs to post a candidate but whatever it is add it up for just over half of the state votes (remember you only need to post candidates in the most likely areas to return a presidential majority!!). Can a US person do the math and work out how much it would actually cost per Tea Party supporter?

Once that is done then stop moaning and organise a democratic change. You have 4 years which should be plenty of time.

This reminds me of many new populaist parties in UK politics. They have all withered and died since there is a huge difference between a vocal noisy minority and voting majority.

What most people fail to see is,it doesn't matter which party is elected anymore. Believe it or not we do have a shadow government.People who have been in place inside the government for years and continue to run the show today.
This crisis has gone way past any political solution.Anyone we would place in a position of authority,would soon enough have the power wrenched from his grasp. Soon enough we will see the real villians in this crisis,and take action accordingly!

reply to post by consciencious observer


I reckon you'll just have to trust me when I say I HAVE been vocal. I'll give my opinion to anyone that wants to hear it. I'm flawed like that.

I've talked to lots of folks, high and low. Talking to the populace does no good, however, when the 'leadership' isn't listening, and in fact acting counter to public opinion and interests.

We voted out a whole brood of gangsters, and what did we get? A fresh new bunch of gangsters, pursuing the same agenda. And they STILL won't listen. And STILL they ignore the constitution, the law of the land. I'm of the opinion that we'll have to get their attention in a meaningful way. The problem is, that when all that gets rolling, there's gonna be chaos.

I wish, and hope, that there can be a peaceful solution, but I'm not betting the farm on it. Nobody wants war less than the folks that realize that they'll be the ones dodging bullets. The key is realizing what that entails, and lots of folks on both sides simply don't.

It's nice to be nice, but there are people in this world that just won't leave you alone and let you be nice. They take reluctance for weakness. At those times the only thing you can do is step up to the plate, get their attention, and CONVINCE them. The alternative is to continually be stepped on, and while I'll allow a certain amount of that, in the interests of peace, there comes a time when it's no longer an option.

I wish you luck in your pursuit of a political, and peaceful solution. I really do. But I haven't noticed a whole lot of success on that road yet. Know that should it come to that, and I believe it will, that your political arm DOES have a military arm to back it up. The more time they can buy you, the greater your chance of success. Of course the converse is also true.

nenothtu out

Originally posted by Question
To those that keep saying "this isn't the 1700's the army is better armed" yadda yadda. Firstly, you forget your history, Britain was indeed better armed and better supplied than the colonists. They did NOT play on an "even" field and if you think so, you've deluded yourself. Many colonists had to scrap and scrounge as much as they could for weapons were as the british already had powerful fleets of ships, more cannons, ammo etc. Not to mention that they also had to fight against other colonists as well (the green jackets, a.k.a the loyalists to the british crown) The colonists didn't have this privilege of better well supplied armament, yet they still sent the king's men packing out of sheer will and desire for a better life.

Right on the money... Excuses, excuses, excuses. If memory serves, from time to time, those "sneaky" patriots took the crown's weapons to use against it's own troops.

Anybody ever hear of Fort Ticonderoga? Caught the redcoats sleeping... Literally.

There's a lot of National Guard armories scattered about the country, as well as the "citizen soldiers" trained to use the equipment therin.

Come and take it.

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
reply to post by alphabetaone

 

Couple that with guerrilla tactics, home field advantage, supply chain disruption, chain of command, support of the people, inability to use weapons of mass destruction[due to collateral damage], troop failure due to desertion, and a myriad other tactical advantages that the people would have, and you have bad odds for the government. They know this, and it is why they must remove firearms for the populace from the equation.

Why can't they find Bin Laden? Why can't the stop the Iraqi insurgents? Why aren't we doing anything in Afghanistan? These people are poorly educated, poorly funded, and poorly fed, not to mention few in number. Until TPTB can defeat them they cannot defeat the citizens of the USA. [no disrespect intended to our boys and girls over there now, they are doing what they can with what they've got.]

respectfully

reluctantpawn

I feel the general tone of this thread, and I certainly am not here to be a wet blanket. But, please don't be foolish in your endeavors people, and please don't underestimate your 'enemies'. "They" have things that seem almost off of a science fiction program, but these weapons are very real I assure you. I am not telling anyone they need to be afraid or anything like that. But please do the math. 'They' aren't going to storm into your residence or compound with a boy scout squad armed with pea shooters and fire sfatey merit badges.

We all know about the standard battle rattle the average to specialized soldier or marine packs (ie: NVG's, infrared specs, AT-4, demo kits, anti-personnel mines, crew serve weapons, personal weapon, bayonet, grenade (hand), M280 grenade launcher) and the armored vehicles, assault choppers and etc...But naturally, knowing our secretive and shady gov't, there are weapons that exist that make all of these look like child's play. Count on them being employed and expect the unexpected.

Furthermore, any civilian can outfit a square of land into a fighting position and can obtain most, if not all, of the toys I mentioned above in parenthesis...and then some if specially motivated. Don't you think they know that? Don't you think they know that you have? They likely have reconned and mapped every inch of your fortress by the time they decide to arrive, down to knowledge of what color undies you have on that day. Brute force is good, spirit of rebellion against injustice is very good...but foolishness and overconfidence is not good.

reply to post by Seasick


A voice of reason Seasick but let's let the old VFW and Legion guys live their past glory days. No sense of bringing reality into the mix just yet.

reply to post by Seasick


Seasick, don't worry too much about it. No one in their right mind will pick a plot of land to defend. Or not for long, as they'd be committing suicide.

Freedom of movement, mobility, unanticipated lines of approach, ambush, speed, and easy concealment will defeat most larger weapons systems.

As for those "secret" technologies? Did you ever think that they may not be the only ones with advanced technologies?

Most scientific advancements were made by individuals. Not National Laboratories.

Those creepy little geeks that work alone in their shops? They are the scariest of all.

An EMP device is easily constructed, and will instantly wipe out the capabilities of hundreds of millions of dollars of high-tech equipment.

Everything stops.

And then?

It's called equal footing.

It's people like this that give me faith that we have any hope of remaining a free nation. Thank You. Btw is it just me or is SouthernGuardian the most annoying, self rightous tool that ever existed in the history of humanity? Probably pretty close.

Anyway here is a quote from Ghandi which reminds me of the state that people like us are in and how we are treated by people like future CNN reporter SouthernGuardian.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win"

[edit on 4-5-2009 by Sheeper]

Originally posted by Sheeper
It's people like this that give me faith that we have any hope of remaining a free nation. Thank You.

It's people like you who are now standing up and being counted that gives us all hope of restoring our Republic!

Thank YOU.

Btw is it just me or is SouthernGuardian the most annoying, self rightous tool that ever existed in the history of humanity? Probably pretty close.

[edit on 4-5-2009 by Sheeper]

SouthernGuardian? Who's that?

Utilize the "Ignore" button, and have an "SG" free thread!

EDIT: Sorry for the gratuitous irony.



[edit on 4/5/09 by cbianchi513]

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
reply to post by expat2368

 

Yep, and they may find a few nasty surprises waiting for them. Most here are aware that they are on the "list"

respectfully

reluctantpawn

I'm not worried about no stupid list. The minute they tried to round people up is the minute the American people are put in the corner. I have no illusions about what could happen but I can imagine what our responces will be. I am a peaceful person and I just want to be left alone. Now on the other hand if I am messed with I have no problems defending what I own or my family with my friends. So I guess the old saying Don't Tread on Me applies.........

You see, as much as I foresee the coming of a revolution, and have for some many years, a single poignant problem arises each and every time that I find hard to stomach.

Each time I hear about those who would want to stand up and fight, those that would oppose whatever force is sent to us in order to maintain our freedoms, what exactly are your trying to preserve? How long is it that our freedoms have been missing to the most of you? Since the war in Iraq? 9/11? Desert Storm? Vietnam?

Where did it start? Where did it fail? It failed in the beginning. It failed because the system doesn't work. People sit and downplay Communism because of its failure rate in society, yet this so called Democracy and freetarian way of living does not quite pan out that well either does it?

All that this current system accomplishes is human dismantlement. It promotes competition and separatism to such a degree that it is completely unavoidable by today's standards.



So what are you going to fight for? To restore what we used to have? When were we truly free? Back in 1776? Are we going to fight to re-create a system that is so openly flawed only to allow future generations to repeat our mistakes, just as we would be doing for the past?

For the life of me I can not figure out why humans refuse to accept and learn from past mistakes. Regardless of the situation, the adage of "history repeats itself" will always hold true in the human complex.




Do you want to fight for the mistakes of our ancestors or do you want to create something new, something worthwhile? Even those who are awakened, are still brainwashed that this society, this governing body is the idealistic way to run things and it is not. It is far from it.



Come the time of the revolution I will fight. I made no oath to the Constitution because while it is a document that it sacred and holds true to the firm beliefs of equality and freedom, myself and many others feel that that is simply not enough.

I will fight. I will lead. I will do so not to repeat the past and funnel society down the same never ending storm drain - no. I will fight for true peace, true equality, and true freedom for everyone.




The days of the forefathers are over. There is no going back to that time. We can no longer look to the past to solve our mistakes and problems. Too much has changed. It is out time to look to the future and pave our own destines.

Who is with me?

reply to post by alphabetaone


O.K. now that we agree to disagree. I do not think that there is anyone of us here that is looking for a confrontation. I think many here have seen the atrocities of war up close and personal. These same people will also tell you that they do not ever want to see it on American soil. No truer words were ever spoken than "War is Hell".

With that aside we also will not stand idly by and wait for knock on the door. Freedom is what this country is founded on and many here hope to preserve. A movement is afoot and it includes conservatives, liberals, libertarians, black, white, gay and straight. Many will stand to fight the common enemy.

It also is not a matter of winning or losing. I have seen time and time again someone say "I won't vote for him he can't win.". It is attitudes like this that have helped us to get where we are now. However there are many in this great land that are willing to stand up for what is right no matter the cost. It was once said that "You can't stop a man that is right and just keeps on coming." There is a lot of truth to that. Many here know what is right and are willing to draw that line in the sand. Not because they want to, for that is the last thing on their mind, but because they feel that they need to. Not for themselves or for glory , but to preserve freedom for their families and future generations yet to come.

It is people like these that I salute and will gladly stand beside, for there is no greater honor among men to stand up toe to toe for what is right. With that being said, these same people also know and understand the carnage that will ensue and are willing to destroy this country and bring it back from the ashes like a phoenix, stronger and more glorious than before.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by Mr.Hyde


You are right on target. I do understand the need to write coherently, but the massive put you down movement because you can't make proper grammar or spell correctly is pretty lame if you ask me. (I am definately guilty of some big run on sentences )

This is what the society breeds, people that think they are better then other people.

On topic, I am ready for my journey to sanctuary. I have even began to tell my closest family members that I will soon be exiting society. I tell them that I'm joining a cult, just so they understand what I'm saying.