UFO Video London

Originally posted by UKWO1Phot
Mmmmm Stella, my only mistress...

Right you have to remember the window is not a full 90 degrees to the object, and refraction from 2 panes of glass can catch it at that angle.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fee02a957639.png[/atsimg]

obviously a bit rough, but gives you a decent idea.

Where are my stars...

Its the one on the bottom left. Look at the roof on the reflection and now look at the object in the sky. The shapes match.

Plus when you add your findings with mine.

Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by kinda kurious

 

That cannot be the case. Here is why

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cf89ef0194d7.jpg[/atsimg]

As you can see the roof is included in the reflection in the window. The light reflected is placed above to roof. The streetlight is not in the FOV because it is below the roof. The only thing that could be reflected in the window is something above to roof. (thats how fov works)

Add the fact it is a casement window




There you have it. (It is a reflection of the ship and not the street light. It's basic physics.... you know FOV.. angle of reflection all that? Plus it shows that since the object in the sky is reflected there cannot be a pane of glass creating the ufo. It also shows that the object is actually physically there.)

Now Lets add some of this

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f97e0823b7cb.jpg[/atsimg]

and celebrate


[edit on 28-4-2009 by DaMod]

Originally posted by DaMod There you have it.

Sorry Sherlock. Did we miss something? There you have what?

KK

[edit on 28-4-2009 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by kinda kurious

Originally posted by DaMod There you have it.

Sorry Sherlock. Did we miss something? There you have what?

KK

[edit on 28-4-2009 by kinda kurious]

Lol look it over again lol....

reply to post by kinda kurious


I think the guy is saying, but I'm not sure, that the presence of the reflection of the opposite roof in the window, plus the reflection of the object tends to suggest the object was *real and actually in the sky where it is purported to be*... I might be wrong though...

Originally posted by DaMod
Lol look it over again lol....

Honestly, I am not following.

Are you making the case the footage is real and not hoaxed or vice-versa?

Or are you simply accounting for the reflection / refraction theory?

I'm not so sure we are all declaring case closed, but drink up just in case.

Sorry, I'm not following your logic.

KK

[edit on 28-4-2009 by kinda kurious]

There is one other possibility,
the open window could actually be beside
and to the left of of a non-opening window,
and through which the camera could be viewing.
The frame seen of the open window could really
the outside part,anyway the open frame,
given the angles shown,
looks much too small to close
into the seen field of view.

Wonder if this guy ever even thought that hundreds of people on a website would be analyzing this so greatly.

Just a thought.

reply to post by kinda kurious


I'm not accounting for any theory. The proper word is hypothesis and I don't even need one of those. It is obvious there is a reflection in that window. All I did was deduce where it was coming from 1. Why it was coming from that direction 2. And that the object was a real object in the sky. Even if this was just a reflection on the glass (which it couldn't be because 1. he is at the window and not standing back at all so he would loose the appearance of depth. 2. Even if that was the case you would not have a dimming effect on the outside window........ Did you fail science? 3. Hanging a pane of glass outside to produce that effect would be ludicrous. That pane of glass alone would cost about 800 American and would weight at least 50 lbs....) the lights would not be opaque there would be a prismatic dissipation effect.

P.S. I'm not trying to prove anything other than this video is legit. What is flying up there is up to you to decide.

[edit on 28-4-2009 by DaMod]

I think we need to focus on another thing. The window glass could be reflecting some other part of the street. It's really hard to tell the angle anyway. What's got my attention is the moment the lights leave the field of view. If you freeze it at the right moment and look closely at exposure trace left by the lights while they speeding away, one can clearly see the non-linear acceleration curve of their movement. The trace starts very dense at first and as the speed of the objects increase the 'dots' become separated further apart. This is not a simple motion blur effect nor the camera movement as the rest of the background elements stay stationary. Very hard to fabricate light trace. I'm in the CGI by the way. The video looks genuine, there's something to it..

reply to post by Republican08


Probably not. He probably saw it posted it and figured that would be that. (other than some questions)

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Erm you're assuming he used thick glass, you seem to assume a lot in fact. I have used blue tack to hold glass in a greenhouse for a couple of hours whilst i searched for the metal clips i needed, this was quite a large piece. As for the edges, take a look at the video, the edges could be on the outside of the frame not the inside, that is how i would to it if i were trying to hoax something. It really wouldn't be difficult supporting the glass if i was going for a hoax. Your experience experience of working with windows for a living means nothing frankly. That's like saying the inventor of the deck of cards wouldn't be fooled by a magician.

First, I know it would have to be on the outside of the frame, which was my original point of getting him to videotape the outside. If he lives in an apartment, do you think a landlord would be alright with construction of an outside frame, of a piece of glass, that would possibly weigh in around 50-80lbs, for a 1 1/2 min youtube clip? Also, it seems that he lives on the second floor of his building, and with the roofing on these British buildings, it would also make it hard to get a frame on the outside for a small video.

I don't think you understand why I want to see his window, and the outside. I'm not hoping he was foolish enough to keep his frame and glass that he used to fool us laying around, but to see if its even possible. Do you understand now? You say I assume a lot, but thats all we can do at this moment, and is the basis of coming to a solid theory. Without assumption, we don't come to any conclusion.

I could fake something right now and some person somewhere could never e convinced it was fake.

Then by all means, DO IT. I was asking earlier if anybody could duplicate this effect on computer and show us. If you can easily hang these 3-4 foot wide by 5-6 feet high pieces of glass out of a two story apartment with ease, then by all means, do it.

Look i can see how this would be faked, there are a number of ways which have been mentioned and as such i cannot accept this was something in the sky.

What were the other ways to duplicate this besides some computer software or the reflection technique? I can see how anything could be faked, but thats why we're trying to come up with an explanation.

I'm just astounded how you keep saying I "assume to much", when NOBODY has come to a definitive conclusion, which means you're in the same boat as all of us with our assumptions.



[edit on 28-4-2009 by TravisT]

reply to post by TravisT


I agree with Trav here. If you think you can do it. I want to see it. Please by all means add to the conversation!!!

Originally posted by Republican08
Wonder if this guy ever even thought that hundreds of people on a website would be analyzing this so greatly.

Just a thought.

No, in fact, he feels a little strange about it all. Its all over the internet now on a bunch of UFO sites, and none of them have come to a conclusion, other then a reflection, which I don't know about yet. He told me his message box on youtube is FLOODED, and he never expected this kind of reaction.

reply to post by DaMod
Hi Damod,
I too think that something reflective outside of the house is daft,
but I do think this camera is looking through glass,
like I've already said,I think it has been taken
through a non-opening window and the open window frame
belongs to another opening to the left.

Originally posted by TravisT
First, I know it would have to be on the outside of the frame, which was my original point of getting him to videotape the outside. If he lives in an apartment, do you think a landlord would be alright with construction of an outside frame, of a piece of glass, that would possibly weigh in around 50-80lbs, for a 1 1/2 min youtube clip? Also, it seems that he lives on the second floor of his building, and with the roofing on these British buildings, it would also make it hard to get a frame on the outside for a small video.

50-80lbs? Where do you get this ridiciluous figure? You could accomplish this hoax with a piece of glass used in greenhouses weighing less than 10 lbs. This could easily be held with duct tape! I'm sorry but you are living in cloud cucoo land with your figures. You mentioned edges but with a thin piece of glass and duct tape attached to the outside frame of the window you wound't have edges.

I may not know a great deal about glass but i know about magic, i have set up several tricks for friends. They aren't mainstream magicians but one of my friends owns a magic shop where i live and i have helped him set things up sometimes as he does demonstrations for kids to get them involved in it all.

Again i state that you are like the person who invented the deck of cards, you would proclaim all magic tricks sorcery as you invented the deck and it cannot happen.

Originally posted by TravisT
I don't think you understand why I want to see his window, and the outside. I'm not hoping he was foolish enough to keep his frame and glass that he used to fool us laying around, but to see if its even possible. Do you understand now? You say I assume a lot, but thats all we can do at this moment, and is the basis of coming to a solid theory. Without assumption, we don't come to any conclusion.

Looking at that window on the left hand side of the video, i can tell you exactly what frame the window has as i have the same one. It's standard here in the UK, the plastics frames are all the same! There may be slight differences but they are cosmetic only. I can tell you right now that if i had the money and health i could easily pin a glass sheet from my greenhouse over the frame to my window, with the window open, clean it thoroughly and you would never know it was there. It's like when you see people run into glass doors on those home movies.

Originally posted by TravisT
Then by all means, DO IT. I was asking earlier if anybody good duplicate this effect on computer and show us. If you can easily hang these 3-4 foot wide by 5-6 feet high pieces of glass out of a two story apartment with ease, then by all means, do it.

I do not have the money or health to do so. All i can tell you is that i have experience in this area and have done such things, not for hoaxing but helping out friends with magic tricks and once keeping a frame in place in a greenhouse with blutak.

Originally posted by TravisT
What were the other ways to duplicate this besides some computer software or the reflection technique? I can see how anything could be faked, but thats why we're trying to come up with an explanation.

Shining strong lights off of clouds would also be possible but personally i doubt that one.

Originally posted by TravisT
I'm just astounded how you keep saying I "assume to much", when NOBODY has come to a definitive conclusion, which means you're in the same boat as all of us with our assumptions.

[edit on 28-4-2009 by TravisT]

I said you assume to much because you assume you cannot hang a thin sheet of glass forma window, i said assume because like you did here you assume the glass would weigh 50lbs! What world do yo ucome from! What absolute nonsense. Fifty POUNDS!?!?! Well i don't get how i put my greenhouse together and lifted all the panes myself, because i have trouble lifting 50 lbs.

You are assuming something about this glass, maybe assuming the thickness that would be required for a hoax.

reply to post by smurfy


That crossed my mind, however, if you look hard you can see that the handle on the window, is consistant with it not being the case.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Please stop talking crap to people and recreate it already!!! You said you could do it, so now do it! That actually would add something to this thread. Also you couldn't use a piece of glass that was too thin. There would be prismatic dissipation therefore the light on the window would not be opaque. It's got to be a thick collective surface. And even if this is the case how is there a reflection behind this on a window on the outside of the house in the exact dimensions to where it should be for an object in the sky. This guy would have to be a master of light.

Do you want me to start posting videos of where this method was used?? I guarantee the effect is different.

[edit on 28-4-2009 by DaMod]

[edit on 28-4-2009 by DaMod]

Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Please stop talking crap to people and recreate it already!!! You said you could do it, so now do it! That actually would add something to this thread. Also you couldn't use a piece of glass that was too thin. There would be prismatic dissipation therefore the light on the window would not be opaque. It's got to be a thick collective surface. And even if this is the case how is there a reflection behind this on a window on the outside of the house in the exact dimensions to where it should be for an object in the sky.

Crazy how I'm using debunking methods to debunk a debunk.

[edit on 28-4-2009 by DaMod]

I cannot recreate it due to my ill health and lack of funds to purchase the glass. If you want to doubt my experience of such things then go for it, but don't discredit me for being unable to reproduce it for an internet forum due to ill health and not having the money to buy the necessary materials.

I would state i have never hoaxed ATS, my reputation, minimal as it is, is of an honest person. Take it from my experience that i have seen magicians do such things. The problem one person has is that the glass couldn't be hung as it would weigh 50lbs, this is utterly ridiculous as i stated i have seen my magician friend hang glass of less weight and get all sorts of effects. He has never tried a UFO but the glass can be hung with simple duct tape! From there all it requires is shining lights at it and getting the angle right.

Look man if you're desperate to believe anything shown yo go for it. I think there are weird things in the sky flying around but i won't accept any and all videos shown to me.

EDIT

The sad part is that if i had the health to climb a ladder and do all of this and provide the exact same footage you still wouldn't believe it was faked.

[edit on 28-4-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

I'm with Da Mod on this one... quit bellyaching and talking down to people and do it.. I have damn good eyesight, a pro monitor set up and i am about 95% certain there is no pane of glass reflecting anything to achieve a hoax..

That's not to say it isn't one. However, the whole way the guy has gone about it does not suggest a hoax. He has openly sent the original raw footage to several people, which is very very unusual for a hoaxer to do...

All I want to know then is how did the reflection end up on the outside window as well in the exact position the reflection would be? A pane of glass could provide the UFO but not the other reflection. Plus the outer reflection does have a dissipation effect which would be a symptom of being reflected at an angle. Listen dude if you go around these forums you will find I debunk more often than not, and I rarely actually state a video is legit for one reason or another (most of the time I side with phage). Most of the time I try to prove they are hoaxes. (take a look to what i did to the Billy Meier thread. That's some of my best work there lol) I am supporting this because there is enough evidence for me to think this legit. I am no blind believer! If you could recreate this (so i can actually see it) and show me that the effect can be done to every aspect that you see in this video then I will back you 100%.

I have seen many a vid with people doing things on glass. This doesn't even resemble those.

Also I'm sure you have a son, friend, relative, coworker that could hang a piece of glass for you.

[edit on 28-4-2009 by DaMod]