US Torture (warning, graphic)

It's pretty obvious that the general feel in this thread is 'the people against torture vs. the people who are indifferent/for torture. And sniping at eachother doesn't reach any sort of consensus.
There are way too many angles: The soldiers in the photos are smiling sadistically. This is in the photos. But are they doing it because they enjoy what they're doing? Or are they smiling because they're enjoying getting a bit of revenge against those they were fighting with and losing comrades by?
Either way, an eye for an eye is a sorry state of affairs, and as the OP's signature points out, courtesy of the great Mohandas Ghandi 'an eye for an eye makes us both blind'.
Physical or psychological torture only gives the torturer what he wants, to make the tortured say what the torturer wants, whilst meteing out a bit of revenge. This attitude can only destroy us all.

Originally posted by smallpeeps

Originally posted by Seekerof
Any means necessary to prevent the loss of life is my motto and opinion. Don't like it, keep spewing.

Hey Seeker, I am wondering if I could be so bold as to put some words in your mouth:

"All soldiers of the US must now be aware that they will suffer harder at the hands of the enemy thanks to the actions of their government in using torture, BUT that is an acceptable evil, which the infantry must shoulder, to preserve American way of life. If they get drills inserted in their bones and flesh, it is so that "Others may live". Even if they feel more fear and pressure in the event of their capture, it is the correct path which we have chosen in being torturers because it will preserve our nation, though it may create hell for the average captured soldier. It is more important for us to create the atmosphere of fear for the enemy, than to make it easier on the actual fighting American soldier who risks capture."

Is that how you'd phrase it, more or less?

All US soldiers lnow and have known since 2004 that if AL Quadia or any terriost organzation catches your head is going. try that on for size.

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
Some of the personnel involved in the torture in Iraq have maintained that they were acting under orders. There are currently claims that those orders came from very high up in the chain of command.

If proven in a court of law this is truly bad for Americans, especially captured American soldiers.

Torture may be an effective tool in theory... So if there are future charges brought against those who ordered it, it will be interesting to see how they will defend these actions.

AGAIN captured American soldiers DIE in al quadia custody. Lets think if I was giving the option to be waterboarded or brutal murder what option would I choose? Better yet which one would you choose.

Originally posted by jaamaan
Yeah right.

The first one looks like some one just undressed him and kicked him until he was bended over on the floor from pain.

Well, that's your assumption.

Originally posted by jaamaan
The cargo plane.
Maybe you should read up on what a "stress position" can do to you, specialy after 20 hours or so on a plane.
Not very funny actualy, you should give it a try.

Really? And just how much flying time on a airlifter do you have? Do you know about assault seating? Ever do an assault landing? What about a random steep or shallow? Once you've done a few of them, get back to me and let me know about it, since you are a no-go at this station concerning this topic.

And a stress position isn't torture. It sucks, but it's not torture.

Originally posted by mental modulator
reply to post by jaamaan

 

I thought it was gonna be graphic

What if them terists killed yer momma of kids?

I thought theys was gunna show cut off fingurs, ripped out toofs, back end prodes w/ razor blades, barbed wire raps...

I thinks we should do more. burn the nice ones alive on a coal pit and the bad ones part by parts, dranking bleach, chewing glass, fish hooks in eye balls! Then they willl think about being terists - or we can just kill ALL on them thats could work
GOD BLESS AMERICA - JEB/PALIN 2012!!!!

You think this is some kind of joke ?

And NO i would not torture any one.

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by jaamaan
Yeah right.

The first one looks like some one just undressed him and kicked him until he was bended over on the floor from pain.

Originally posted by jerico65
Well, that's your assumption.

Maybe quote the whole context here than where that quote was taken from.
It was ment as a counter "assumption" where some one tried to state that he was being treated for his bullet shot in the knee or something simular.

Originally posted by jaamaan
The cargo plane.
Maybe you should read up on what a "stress position" can do to you, specialy after 20 hours or so on a plane.
Not very funny actualy, you should give it a try.

Originally posted by jerico65
Really? And just how much flying time on a airlifter do you have? Do you know about assault seating? Ever do an assault landing? What about a random steep or shallow? Once you've done a few of them, get back to me and let me know about it, since you are a no-go at this station concerning this topic.

And a stress position isn't torture. It sucks, but it's not torture.

Stress position is not torture.
Hmm i think it actualy is, specialy when one is put into it for many hours.

Do you realy dare to state that this is an assault landing in the pictues i posted?
Because i am pretty sure that this is a clear example of a "stress position".
Could you please examine the pictures one more time and tell me what you think?

[edit on 25-4-2009 by jaamaan]

I'm surprised anyone thought that the Geneva convention was actually applied.

No one has ever used it in the way it was intended, ever. If it was all the POW camps would have been nothing more than an episode of Hogan's Hero's.

The "torture" they endured is solely used to torture the brain not the body. There are much more effective ways to torture a body however if you do that they end up in so much pain they can't even speak much less tell you what you want to hear. The one thing I learned after my ordeal was, "Man if I ever get in a situation again where I'm going to be taken prisoner they'll have to kill me first".

Stress positions are stress positions. Torture is torture.

It looked like that guy was strapped in assault seating. This is used on airlifters so they don't have to load and unload jump seats. Bare pallets and cargo straps can be used.

If they are going to question anyone, I seriously doubt they are going to take a C130 or C17 off the flight line and use it instead of using it for it's intended purpose of transporting supplies and troops.

Originally posted by jaamaan

Originally posted by mental modulator
reply to post by jaamaan

 

I thought it was gonna be graphic

What if them terists killed yer momma of kids?

I thought theys was gunna show cut off fingurs, ripped out toofs, back end prodes w/ razor blades, barbed wire raps...

I thinks we should do more. burn the nice ones alive on a coal pit and the bad ones part by parts, dranking bleach, chewing glass, fish hooks in eye balls! Then they willl think about being terists - or we can just kill ALL on them thats could work
GOD BLESS AMERICA - JEB/PALIN 2012!!!!

You think this is some kind of joke ?

And NO i would not torture any one.

I really couldn't tell if this guy was being sarcastic or not. I hope so, even though this is not a subject to be sarcastic or blase about... But if he wasn't...do such people really exist?

When an innocent child is killed and the father picks up a gun and fights back is he really a terrorist.
Surely we would all do the same if we were being attacked by a foreign country.
Why is everyone that fires back a terrorist? They are protecting what is theirs just like we would do.
What you see on the news is propaganda. Its how they keep moral in war time.
Why else do you think we hear about every suicide bomber attack in iraq? It makes these people look like animals that need our intervention, we are the saviours, the good guys. They are evil, less humane and need teaching to be civilized.

Originally posted by Divinorumus
If these creeps had murdered your son or daughter in cold blood, would you still weep for these sacks of scum? Torture not only can extract information, it serves as a deterrent to those that are thinking about committing cold blooded murder in the future. Let those pictures serve as a warning to others that think they have nothing to fear or loose when they murder the innocent in the name of whatever b.s. they believe and feel justifies their acts and actions.

More pictures to be release, eh? GOOD!

[edit on 24-4-2009 by Divinorumus]

Damnit Man! Not using torture is what separates the "good guys" from the "Bad guys." As the USA we should be the leading example in how to be the good guys, we had that opportunity, but we blew it. After WW2 we KILLED the Japanese who used water-boarding on our soldiers saying it was inhumane. We should NEVER torture...EVER...For ANY REASON. If people killed my family and I could torture them, there's no way I would. That's how you can tell they are the Fu**ed up ones, because they can mentally come to a conclusion where murder and torture are justifiable. Healthy, forward thinking people cannot and will not accept such actions for any reasons. IT WONT EVER MAKE THINGS BETTER!!!

Originally posted by MakeSoap
Damnit Man! Not using torture is what separates the "good guys" from the "Bad guys."

Who's presuming we're the good guys? I never claimed we are or ever were. We're the only nation to drop a nuke on innocent people. I completely acknowledge our government is evil and wicked too. We're just as bad, maybe worse. We're the nation that sticks our noses where it doesn't belong, creating hostility in the middle east, which brings these terror attacks on upon ourselves in the first place. So long as we're gonna be like that, we may as well be the best evil we can be.

[edit on 24-4-2009 by Divinorumus]

Originally posted by jaamaan
Do you realy try to say these people are 'not" in the stress position here?
If so than i realy doubt you where ever in the army, let alone that you flew these transports.

Actually it is the Air Force that flew the C-130s, and the guards were Army. The flights were 45 mins tops, and they were/are led from a bus to the plane and strapped down for the flight, and I normally saw 20 to 30 at a time. From the plane they were led to a bus again...no scream, yelling, pushing, shoving, hitting etc at all.


BTW test it yourself...sit down on the floor with both feet out in front of you for 45 mins...

I was put in stress positions for an hour at a time during my PoW training, so ya I know what they are and that they are no fun....



[edit on 24-4-2009 by Xtrozero]

Here, this is torture: ABC News Exclusive: Torture Tape Implicates UAE Royal Sheikh

This is obviously what these middle eastern cultures understand, it's a part of their culture, that response of theirs that the police didn't do anything wrong acknowledges what they believe is the norm. So, when in Rome, do as the Romans, eh?

Whats so graphic about it ? where are the pics of those US soldiers in Iraq that had there genitals cut off and stuffed in there mouths and then slaughtered alive then beheaded ? torture to one person is not torture to another , I am sure those US soldiers that got slaughtered in Iraq would have loved to been tortured US style .

Do you people actually think that torture will simply go away if the Obama Admin. doesn't condone it? as long as there's war, there will be torture. Everynation it.

reply to post by hiluxxulih


Do we acquit violent criminals if they can prove that some other criminal was more violent that them? No. They are both violent criminals. Pointing at others and saying "But they are worse than us!" does nothing to excuse our crimes.

A violent criminal is a violent criminal.

Torture is torture.

Islamic extremists and the US administration are both torturers and murders. What is being done in America's name should shame and anger every American. Those who are not ashamed, but defend the use of torture, brutality and inhumanity don't deserve to call themselves Americans, because, in their fear and their rage, they have forgotten and betrayed what America is supposed to stand for.

reply to post by Divinorumus

This is obviously what these middle eastern cultures understand, it's a part of their culture, that response of theirs that the police didn't do anything wrong acknowledges what they believe is the norm. So, when in Rome, do as the Romans, eh?

Interesting, so if we keep using torture and become desensitized to it, then it will naturally become part of our "culture" in time too, won't it? Won't that be fun?

The military is evidently being increasingly primed to use brutality and our police are rapidly becoming militarized: liberally pepper spraying, beating, tazering and tear gassing citizens who a peacefully exercising their right to protest and free speech, sometimes just to get them to move. So the concept of applying terror and torture - what is the use of terror to achieve aims called, I wonder? There must be a word for it - is already becoming more commonplace in our society.

The thin end of the wedge is inexorably and rapidly followed by the fat end people, and when that fat edge is rammed home, it's you and I, here, who will feel it. That's how it starts. So even if your humanity doesn't move you to be appalled and disgusted by the US Governments use of torture, your self interest should. We should all be concerned.

[edit on 24-4-2009 by Malcram]

torture is not nice, you know, like killing people who will kill you if you dont kill them, is not nice.

however, it is necessary and effective, both produce results.

liberals are very childish, they believe above all, that being mean is equal to being wrong.

btw

what happened to this thread?:

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