When has a corporation actually screwed you more than the government

Originally posted by Curious_Agnostic
They're exporting jobs and manufacturing to save money. We're all going to be screwed if we don't start manufacturing more.

Manufacturing more ? What about all those cars rusting in harbors around the world ? Without slaves to borrow and buy all that is produced, the system falls.
www.orionmagazine.org...

Today “work and more work” is the accepted way of doing things. If anything, improvements to the labor-saving machinery since the 1920s have intensified the trend. Machines can save labor, but only if they go idle when we possess enough of what they can produce. In other words, the machinery offers us an opportunity to work less, an opportunity that as a society we have chosen not to take. Instead, we have allowed the owners of those machines to define their purpose: not reduction of labor, but “higher productivity”—and with it the imperative to consume virtually everything that the machinery can possibly produce.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by pai mei]

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


Forget corporations. Forget governments. They are one and the same. See the big picture. Both exist to enslave the common people.

Global call to abolish money 090909.

they are pretty much the same thing.We have a government of professional politicians,For the corporations,by the federal reserve bank.The war in Iraq and Afganistan are nothing more than contracts for the corporations.You can bet the big wigs at KBR couldn't wait to get into Iraq.88% of the people did not want the bail out.Wall street corporations did.What happened?Maybe you haven't noticed corporations pretty much get what they want and the people get a bone tossed thier way once in a while.I'm broke where is the government to bail me out?You have less freedom with each passing day and the corporations get the rights in this country anymore not the people.

Originally posted by pluckynoonez
reply to post by justsomeboreddude

 

Can you prove there is a difference? Is the UNITED STATES a government or a corporation? I remember reading the District of Columbia and Organic Act of 1871 being the establishment of The United States as a corporation. Please respond.

Yes, the government IS a corporation. As are ALL the states and cities within the United States. Even the Supreme Court of the United States and Courts in all the states. The Senate and the House of Representatives.

Don't believe me? Go to Dunn and Bradstreet and start plugging in names - United States of America, Supreme Court of the United States, State of Texas, Supreme Court of Texas, Montana or whatever state.

We are slaves of the corporation, make no mistake about that.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude

That is what they claim but when you look at some of the profit margins, they prove the lie.

Its not about making things cheaper to sell... its all about increasing the profit margin and dividends paid.

reply to post by grover


Doesnt producing your product for less increase your profit margin? Provided you sell for the same base price as before the less expensive production methods came into being or sell more of the product at a lesser price.

You cant say because they want to increase profits they do not seek to create a less expensive product. A less expensive product is a path to increased profit.

How many Xbox's can Microsoft sell at $400? Not too many. They recoup a baseline investment while researching less expensive manufacturing and processing alternatives (all while taking a substantial loss to their gaming department) and within a few months time can drop their price to $300. Now how many will they sell? The long term profitability of the product rests on a solid short-term install base. It's in that companies best interest regarding overall profit to get as many out as quickly and cheaply as possible even if at an initial loss. Long term distribution and licensing will (already are if I'm not mistaken) surpass any loss incurred.

Seems to me at least half of this blind "corporation hate" is based on perceptions and pop culture trends. If it were based on anything of value most of those who complain about the corporations would have exactly the same complaints if not more toward the federal government yet those hating on the corporations look to the federal government to save them from their perceived enemy. Withholding this notion that government loves you altruistically and will do anything to make your life better how exactly do the concepts of powerful conglomerate and powerful government differ? Granted government can confiscate your home and shoot you dead. Even WalMart can't do that.......yet.

Microsoft. They told me that my product key was invalid. They really must have wanted me to shell out $300 for a new copy of Windows.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


LOL, those evil bastards. Expecting you to pay to use their software. How dare them!


[edit on 22-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

Originally posted by ctjctjctj
reply to post by justsomeboreddude

 

Forget corporations. Forget governments. They are one and the same. See the big picture. Both exist to enslave the common people.

Global call to abolish money 090909.

I am just curious, but how do you plan to make the world better by abolishing money. How would the world function without a means to exchange something for something else?

Well, "Almost Mandatory" Car ownership in the US wasn't a foregone conclusion. Early on car companies bought up commuter rail companies in the outskirts of major cities and shut them down - essentially engineering an infrastructure that makes it virtually impossible to function in US society without buying one of their products?

Or how about the American cellular phone industry. For a long time you were locked in with threat of fees if you wanted to switch companies to get a better deal. Seems to be a pretty anti-competitive practice but it may still even go on. Nowdays they try to offer "free incoming calls" as if it was a special feature instead of the accepted norm in the rest of the world.

Or what about planned obsolescence in technology? Feed consumers better products drip by drip. Great for profits, terrible for the environment and lousy for consumers.

Or what about for-profit pharmaceutical companies twisting the research and sending out attractive women to literally seduce hospitals into promoting their drugs for off-label uses that may or may not be safe or even effective.

Even the whole deal with the US being a consumer driven society (I believe something like 75% of our economy is based on consumer spending) was purposefully engineered by economists & thinktanks after WW2 when trying to figure out what the new direction for the country would be. Though arguably that was equally or more govt. at fault but they were bowing to pressures from the private business sectors.

Those are just a few of my personal pet peeves (on top of the things other people have mentioned....) I try to take a moderate opinion, though. Business is a very good thing, especially small local businesses. But I also think civilized businesses need *rules* and they will NOT voluntarily police themselves when there is a profit to be had. I believe the public and private sector should be pretty well balanced and push and pull against each other.

I think it's interesting that in a country like China people seem to be OK with their restricted form of government because they're allowed to make a ton of money & consume a bunch of "stuff." It's very Marshall McLuhan-y but rather than the "media being the massage" the ability to buy stuff & make a ton of money is the massage that relaxes people into accepting things they might not otherwise accept.

Whether you think one side (Govt or Private Sector) is out of control I think maybe everyone can maybe agree that it's a good idea for everyone to be more savvy consumers, regardless of how rich or poor you are. I for one think consumer awareness classes should be taught to kids in public schools.

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
I am just curious, but how do you plan to make the world better by abolishing money. How would the world function without a means to exchange something for something else?

One cannot help but be reminded of:

Man 2: Right now we're proving we don't need corporations. We don't need money. This can become a commune where everyone just helps each other.
Man 1: Yeah, we'll have one guy who like, who like, makes bread. A-and one guy who like, l-looks out for other people's safety.
Stan: You mean like a baker and a cop?
Man 2: No no, can't you imagine a place where people live together and like, provide services for each other in exchange for their services?
Kyle: Yeah, it's called a town.
Driver: You kids just haven't been to college yet. But just you wait, this thing is about to get HUGE.

www.southparkstudios.com...

[edit on 22-4-2009 by thisguyrighthere]

A good start would be for states in the U.S. to redact this law (some
townships have done it already):

Due to global multinational corporations abusing and manipulating the ' slave laws ' they have been afforded unique 'human individual' rights by the US supreme court - this means that in the eyes of the law each corporation is regarded as just one person (without the accountability of moral integrity or imprisonment).

See 2:20
www.youtube.com...

There is more information about the 'pathology of global corporations' in these (award winning) films - see fourth post down:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Cheers.

Originally posted by inthesticks
Yes, the government IS a corporation. As are ALL the states and cities within the United States. Even the Supreme Court of the United States and Courts in all the states. The Senate and the House of Representatives.

You beat me to it. There's a false premise in the thread's title that the government isn't a corporation. Until we realize what is colloquially termed "Big Government" is a very large corporation, we are stuck in a false paradigm.

Of course it has many features distinguishing it from other corporations (not least its size) but nevertheless it's a corporation in the same sense as other profit driven legal entities.

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
reply to post by GTORick

 

I will give you that guy was probably a con artist. He could have done that as a propietorship or an LLC or a fake company for that matter. Also, I am pretty sure there are laws to extradite someone who commited a crime.

It very well be that the person who lost their stuff was responsible because they signed a contract they didnt understand or didnt read.

But you never answered if there are no corporations or llc's or whatever, how is anything going to get accomplished?

Yes, the problem is though that the police won't touch a fraud case with a ten foot pole. I know about this corporation because I lost money there too and there wasn't a police department in the whole United States that would even look into criminal charges about this guy. Quite a few of his transactions were done across state lines and therefore also the jurisdiction of the FBI and nobody would touch it. What he did was immoral, illegal and there are criminal laws against it but the police will not act on them or even investigate them.

I finally asked one cop in Arizona, "Do you know you just told me that I can defraud people for thousands of dollars and you won't do anything about it?" The reply, "Is there anything else I can help you with Sir?".

My point is that since the LLC is a 'person' - even though it is really a sole proprietership - a thief, con artist or anyone looking to make a few bucks by fraud can open one up, set up shop and away you go until your reputation gets out. That is the only thing that stopped Arizona Power and Sound.

To answer your question, yes we need business. However, there should be some personal, moral and legal obligations that should be enacted so that the people who make millions off of the back of the companies - rape the companies - then leave it to someone else to fix can be prosecuted. Someone mentioned China has a death penalty for business fraud. I don't personally believe in the death penalty but it SHOULD be a capitol crime. Life imprisonement sounds good to me. There should be no mercy. Instead, we have a system that rewards dishonesty.

Another example of this is Donald Trump. I can't even remember how many times his casinos have filed for BK protection in New Jersey then he comes on TV with 'The Apprentice' like he is some sort of success story. That is a great example of no personal responsibility. On one hand he is telling vendors, "Sorry, I don't have money" while in New York he has millions and producing a TV show to tell you how much of a success he is at business. Since it can be reasonably assumed he made all of the decisions for his company in New Jersey he isn't in anyway taking personal responsibility when he has millions in another state. To me he is a fraud.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


No money society:
What are the basic needs of people ? Food, clothes, some healthcare. So all people work in one of these domains. No need for all people, right now in USA only 3 % work in agriculture. So people work in turns. You work for 8 years then you are replaced, and the only pay you get is free food, clothes and healtchare forever. No need for money.
After this work period you are free to do whatever you want. Enrich your life however you want. Some people will do what they like - hobbies, some will party , some will travel, some will work for more comfort. Simple and a free life.

reply to post by pai mei


If you expect to maintain the same level of healthcare, for instance, you'll need to staff a slew of industries in pharmaceuticals and engineering and manufacturing.

How would you educate people for this purpose? As it is med school is another 8-10 years beyond standard K-12 education. You go to school until you're 30 to work for 8 years for clothes? Why bother when you can skip out on school and work in a factory for 8 years for the same clothes? When you know all you have to do is work for 8 years of your life and you'll be set why would anyone bother to be anything other than the simplest and easiest thing they be?

I'd just go be a janitor for 8 years then live the rest of my life riding bikes around the country. Who would build my bike? They'd build it for fun? Then I'd buy it for what? They'd trade it to me for services of some sort I imagine?

I'm all for casting off everything and going back to a wholly agricultural lifestyle. All we need to do to accomplish that is abolish taxation. The rest of the world can live how it wants to and I can live how I want to but as long as the government has a gun to my head forcing their extortion I can never be free to live how I want to.

reply to post by pai mei


This is the way of the future. All else is nothing but temporary. We cannot sustain the way the world is being run and has been run.

There are many hurdles to overcome like the poster above me has stated but it is the only way to make it work. One is that if you area material obsessed person you can make your way to gain more material wealth through driving yourself harder. Then if one would like to live a fullfilling spiritual life without all the mundane noise of some creeps holding you ransom for a paycheck you can do that too.

There is plenty of wealth once it is taken away from the 1 % that hold it. How is that fair? Why is it that anytime someone brings up this higher way of living so many fear that they will not be able to cut a big fat hog in that ass? Why cant they think beyond the propaganda they have been fed since they were born? Because they HAVE been fed this load of crap since they were born.

I want to be of the higher self and not of the lower self of the cheese chasing rat.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


You will have all the free time in the world tou build a bycicle, and you will have others that want a bycicle so you get together and build them. Some others build other stuff they want , you can change your bycicles for what they have.
But unlike now when they are trapped in this "work, buy, borrow, buy, throw away then buy again, else you have no job", people will be able to stop working on these things whenever they want.
About education : it can be changed a lot so it does not take so much. And relations between people will change once they see they are not fighting each other for a "job" anymore. People will seek respect, so they will want to show they are useful to the group. Not like anybody will be forcing them.

No money - people will not take from nature more than they need - right now we do that, we transform nature into money, soon it will be a giant desert.
www.nativeamericans.com...

Crazy Horse, Tashunkewitko of the western Sioux, was born about 1845. Killed at Fort Robinson, Nebraska in 1877, he lived barely 33 years.

As a boy, Crazy Horse seldom saw white men. Sioux parents took pride in teaching their sons and daughters according to tribal customs. Often giving food to the needy, they exemplified self-denial for the general good. They believed in generosity, courage, and self-denial, not a life based upon commerce and gain.

One winter when Crazy Horse was only five, the tribe was short of food. His father, a tireless hunter, finally brought in two antelope. The little boy rode his pony through the camp, telling the old folks to come for meat, without first asking his parents. Later when Crazy Horse asked for food, his mother said, "You must be brave and live up to your generous reputation."

It was customary for young men to spend much time in prayer and solitude, fasting in the wilderness --typical of Sioux spiritual life which has since been lost in the contact with a material civilization.

Money civilization at work :







[edit on 22-4-2009 by pai mei]

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude

Originally posted by ctjctjctj
reply to post by justsomeboreddude

 

Forget corporations. Forget governments. They are one and the same. See the big picture. Both exist to enslave the common people.

Global call to abolish money 090909.

I am just curious, but how do you plan to make the world better by abolishing money. How would the world function without a means to exchange something for something else?

Glad you're curious. Pls see my signature link.

reply to post by ctjctjctj


I read your link. Even if this could work, which it cant, all you would end up is a world full of fat butted couch potatoes watching Jerry Springer.