Secret Homeland Security Threat Assessment Labels Gun Owners Potential Terrorists

Hmmm...

Quite an equivocation there!

'Patriot' now has synonymy with 'Terrorist'

Where do these mindless monkeys come from?

I think the Govt has the right to be afraid, the people above them and even themselves at times screwed millions of Americans over and some of the Americans are warriors at heart with a weapon in hand. I just hope none of you take up arms for an ignorant cause. Civility is the way. Besides our country has bigger things to worry about these next few years with our Sun.

reply to post by rjmelter


There's no doubt that left wing group in power is just trying to stir up hate and unrest so they can further their socialist agenda. Their core group responds well to it and they want someone or especially a group on the left to use a gun to retaliate so they can say "see we warned you". All the time stirring the pot gettin people riled up.

Why else would they do it?

Imagine the Bush administration pulling something like this? Never! We were a united country under Bush after the bad guys. Everyone had a flag. We were all in it together.

Now under Obama we ARE the bad guys to be feared down at the mall, at the gas station, at the schools! Noone knows what the government is going to do next they have broken so many campaign promises. So many honest citizens have bought guns and ammo you can't BUY pistol or rifle ammo theres no more on the shelves, sold out! (I just checked today!)

What is happening to this country!

reply to post by plumranch

There's no doubt that left wing group in power is just trying to stir up hate and unrest so they can further their socialist agenda. Their core group responds well to it and they want someone or especially a group on the left to use a gun to retaliate so they can say "see we warned you". All the time stirring the pot gettin people riled up.

True, and they know that they have the MSM to go along with all of their lies.
Isn't it interesting that they label people that are in support of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights as potential terrorists, but they are now talking with their buddy Fidel Castro, who in the 1960's tried to install Russian Ballistic Missiles aimed at the US cities!

reply to post by plumranch

Their core group responds well to it and they want someone or especially a group on the left to use a gun to retaliate so they can say "see we warned you". All the time stirring the pot gettin people riled up.

I have wondered if that wasn't the immediate goal myself.

Imagine the Bush administration pulling something like this?

Well you wouldn't see the CNN reporter getting all bent out of shape then. You could call Bush all sorts of Fascist and they wouldn't bat an eye.

We were a united country under Bush after the bad guys.

Everyone had a flag.

We were all in it together.

Unfortunately I think that all the Patriotic fervor under Bush has come back to haunt us. I am no fan of Bush and warned about throwing caution to the wind in order to "go after the bad guys."

Now they have changed the definition of what a "bad guy" is.

Patriots like us may well find ourselves in a detention center entirely due to our views on the second amendment or boarder security.

It's a sad day when political descent is declared extremist rhetoric.

What is happening to this country!

When you find out be sure to let me know.


[edit on 16-4-2009 by lazy1981]

So now I am being labeled a Terrorist. How sad the state of affairs have become in the land once know as "The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave".

I am a veteran, from a long line of veterans. I guess Obama is following Lincoln, I will have to follow my family's position from that time. A hint, my family rode with Quantrill's Raiders.

Lincoln did what those who put him into power told him to do. Obama is doing the same thing. More Americans were killed in the Civil War than in any other war we have fought in. Is Obama taking us down the same road?

I love this Country, but I do not love the direction this country is heading. Are the so called leaders of America trying to get the Patriots to revolt? Do they think they will have a better nation without Freedom? I guess if they attack patriots I will be among the first to be attacked.

To all of those people who say I don't own guns, I am not a veteran, I am not anti abortion, I support gay rights, ect. All the things the Obama democrates support. I will leave you with the following thought:

“In Germany, they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up.” | Martin Niemueller

If you support the violent overthrow of our democratically elected government because you don't like the results, you're not a "patriot" but a traitor, by definition.

If your ideology is more important than your country, you're not a "patriot", by definition.

"Terrorist" I don't know about, but if buildings full of people start blowing up like in OKC 1995, the label may start to fit...

Grow up people - you lost an election.
It's not the end of the world, nor the end of the United States.

The Constitution has not been nullified, the Second Amendment (and the other nine that people on the right seem to pointedly ignore) is still the law of the land.

I don't see this memo as *equating* firearms owners with terrorists. I think it simply makes a reasonable statement that an armed person is more dangerous than an unarmed one. I don't see anything that claims firearms owners are more likely to become terrorists or to turn against the Government; but if they were to do so, they'd be more dangerous than someone without a weapon.

I wholeheartedly agree that owning firearms for defense isn't only - maybe not even primarily - to defend against burglars or other intruders. A realistic reason to keep firearms is to defend against the Government, should it become a fascist regime as happens so often. Our government has veered into that direction more than once during its history. One reason it hasn't gone over completely is that too many people are armed, and would fight against government gone wild.

What I find most disturbing about this memo isn't its conclusions, but the "law enforcement sensitive" classification it was given. This sort of thing smacks of fascism and a sort of "Us against Them" mentality. We are citizens. Those of us who are law-abiding - the vast, overwhelming majority of us - should not be treated as criminals. We should not have our law enforcement agencies creating secret memos about us, but rather those memos should be made public.

It appears that many in law enforcement agree with this idea, since these memos are routinely published on the Internet as soon as they're released. That being the case, I wonder why Homeland Security even bothers to try to limit publication of these memos. It is ineffective and makes them look bad to the public.

reply to post by xmotex

people start blowing up like in OKC 1995,

Well there are those of us that believe that OK was an inside job. There were reports of a man that looked to be of Middle eastern origin in the truck rather than T.M. Or the many explosives that were reported turning into just one truck????

Wonder how a man gets so many explosives into a Federal building????

And there was the same issue that we heard of on 9/11 of the Federal employees being conveniently absent on that day.

Problem, reaction, solution; could be the real issue at hand.

Grow up people - you lost an election.

Although this may be an issue for a lot of people, you're off the mark. You're making the same shameful mistake that the MSM is. Just because people don't agree with policies put forward by a predominantly Democratic Congress doesn't make an election the issue.

And it's not really the Obama administration that's the issue, it's the bravado and brazen disrespect of his DHS Chief. If that sort of profiling going on with minorities by police forces or Muslims there would be heads rolling, but they think that they can get away with it because they are targeting political positions.

No go.




[edit on 18-4-2009 by lazy1981]

reply to post by chiron613

What I find most disturbing about this memo isn't its conclusions, but the "law enforcement sensitive" classification it was given.

This is definitely an issue in my book. But the real issue is, What's in the Classified Version?????

This sort of thing smacks of fascism and a sort of "Us against Them" mentality.

I wouldn't say Fascism, people throw that around too often. It's just a "Totalitarian" sort of thing. The Communist took the same sort of approaches. Set the people against each other with the "Us against Them mentality." They told the people that everyone is equal while only the top party members were privileged. And the police treated everyone like they (the police) were better than. Sounds familiar in Chicago.

We are citizens.

Only in title, we lost the actual participation of a citizen and the weight that falls behind it many years ago. We vote for people that are just two sides of the same coin. And we get to have CNN and FOX tell us left good right bad and vica versa.

Those of us who are law-abiding - the vast, overwhelming majority of us - should not be treated as criminals.

That's a great idea. I wish you could see how people in Chicago are treated. Your scum until you can prove otherwise if you catch the eye of the police. And they talk to you like you killed their best friend. Maybe some of you will get to enjoy this if Mayor Daley gets the Olympics in 16'???

We should not have our law enforcement agencies creating secret memos about us, but rather those memos should be made public.

I completely agree.

However, I think that there will be many more to come but they will make it punishable to release the memos like they have been.

It appears that many in law enforcement agree with this idea, since these memos are routinely published on the Internet as soon as they're released.

I hope that's the case, the government has been putting it in their minds for so long that it is "them against us" that I fear most of the LEO's have taken that bait.

reply to post by lazy1981

Well there are those of us that believe that OK was an inside job.

Yes, I know, but you're simply kidding yourselves because it hits too close to home. Sorry, but I won't play nice when (thousands? millions? of) lives are at stake.

"Nobody on 'our side' could have done something like that!"

But they could have, and did.

Just like the Muslims that tell themselves "good Muslims" could have never perpetrated the 9/11 atrocities - it musta been those durn sneaky Jews

But the evidence is pretty unambiguous, and claims of conspiracy are not helped by McVeigh's proud admissions of responsibility.

Wonder how a man gets so many explosives into a Federal building????

Err, you fill a rental truck with drums full of ANFO and park it out front?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to park a truck and light a fuse.

Just someone so entrenched in ideology that they've learned to utterly disregard the value of human life.

It's not hard to understand - hell, I've been there myself once or twice.

[edit on 4/18/09 by xmotex]

Did you also see where the woman that runs the cabinet position for Homeland Security called all the combat vets potential terrorists?

They have stepped over the line. Look at the pattern:

Motorcycle Clubs: Terrorist
Combat Veterans: Terrorist
Gun owners: Terrorist
Epithets and common threats utter by you or I: Terrorist threats.

Yet Stolen aircraft penetrating 700 miles of US Territiory, on a possible dry run are "watched"
Your Grandmother gets harrassed at the airport flying out to visit grandkids.
Leos who consent to all this: Anti American
Corporationism: Anti American

I personally think that we need to rachet up OUR common rhetoric to apply the words "Anti American" to all things and actions that are contrary to the common sense application of the constitution.

IF WE DO NOT, then all cases of dissention will instead be labelled "anti american" by those very people. Start using the language whenever possible.

Do you not think that subversion of the economy is treason?

reply to post by xmotex

I think there are two key points to be made, and the first involves your statement "Grow up people - you lost an election." Both Obama and Pelosi have responded to critics of the recent insane "Porkulus" and other measures by simply saying "We won". Fair enough, but they won by a 53%-47% margin. By simply dismissing critics with the "We won" excuse it projects a breathtaking arrogance that they don't think that 47% of Americans matter and that they can simply do as they please with no regard for the feelings of almost half of us. "Red states...you can go to Hell" is the message, and it isn't being well-received.

The second point involves rebellion. There is no prohibition of secession in the Constitution when a state decides that being in the Union is no longer in its best interests, especially so when the Federal government is exceeding its authority, which is specifically spelled out in that document and further limited by the 10th Amendment. The war that was fought 150 years ago over that issue was settled by force of arms, not by any legal authority.

To oppose a tyrannical government that defies the Constitution by whatever means necessary is patriotism, NOT treason.

reply to post by xmotex

"Nobody on 'our side' could have done something like that!"

First, let us not begin the associations ('our side'). I don't know who the 'our side' is supposed to lump together???? You have now become the issue. I'll make this as clear as I can and maybe if DHS is reading they can get the idea too.

JUST BECAUSE YOU SHARE ONE OR TWO POLITICAL IDEOLOGIES DOESN'T LUMP YOU INTO ONE GROUP. OR MAKE YOU SYMPATHETIC TO A PERSONS CAUSE.

I hope that was very clear so lets not trek down this path again.

But the evidence is pretty unambiguous, and claims of conspiracy are not helped by McVeigh's proud admissions of responsibility.

He probably was about as guilty as sin, just as the Muslims on 9/11. After all (supposing that I'm right and you can humoring me) someone would need to go down in order for it to look good, correct????

So why not pick a fanatic. Funny how history repeats itself.

You can try to argue the point about T.M. all the live long day but the initial reports from the FBI released to the MSM on the day of the attack in OK told of mult devices that went off and more that were defused after the fact, and I'm sorry to tell you that there were Feds that mysteriously didn't show up for work that day, like all of them...... Funny how history repeats itself.

For me it's not a thing of being able to believe that one man could do such a thing. I'm sure one man could, it's the lack of probability that such perfect circumstances could present themselves to that one man at the perfect time in history. The odds are staggering. I think that people that do such things are insighted and helped along by inside forces in order to further an agenda. Kind of like how did the bombs get inside the building?????

Err, you fill a rental truck with drums full of ANFO and park it out front?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to park a truck and light a fuse.

I'm sure it doesn't. But that's not the original report of what happened on that morning.

Just someone so entrenched in ideology that they've learned to utterly disregard the value of human life.

Exactly! Now you understand. These people are the sort that belong in a report from DHS (just to get back to the topic for a sec). My issue here is that she/they (whoever) went off the deep end when they lumped a bunch of people together with THAT SORT OF PEOPLE.

You can't expect a person with normal political arguments to be happy about these types of scare tactics and that's all they are. Or at least I hope they are, and they aren't really ready to start rounding up gun owners.


Anyway, I know that your a government apologist, and that you will most likely never see on ounce of wrong with anything that our government does. You're probably mislead into the false merits of a large government and all that you think it has to offer.

All it (big government) has to offer is a self-serving purpose with ends derived from the sweat of the average mans brow. It can't create or give because it has nothing, it can only take from one in order to give to another. Which by definition is Socialism/Communism. So basically if you support big government you support Socialism (and it's totalitarianism) by default.

See you are comfortable with letting loose the reins and blindly trusting the governments "wisdom" and "honor." To me they are not to be trusted, because power corrupts, likewise power seeks more power at any cost.

Again I leave yo with two of my favorite quotes.


"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
-Thomas Jefferson


"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
–George Washington

I remember an old SF demolition expert friend of mine that saw the OKC bombing direct aftermath state that it was impossible for that building to be destroyed from the outside like it was. The central support columns would have to have charges placed on them plain and simple. The distance from the blast was just too great and that the face of the building might be destroyed but that the supports could not possibly have been effected like they were.

I remember seeing one of the devices on the news as it was being removed and it had a sound wave detonator on it. I have seen them up close when in the military. They are designed to go off when an explosion shock wave near by hits their surface. They are not perfect so the entire building was not destroyed as planned.

This is for those of you who may not have seem the video, someone is making sure that it's suppresed as of late.