Why I dont buy the "tea party" protests

Originally posted by Darky6K

Originally posted by mental modulator
Wanting a better, more cost effective form of healthcare is not the same as desiring
GOVERNMENT/CITIZEN CONTROL OF PRODUCTION, RESOURCES and INDUSTRY
( COMMUNISM in short sire)

Didn't fascism do that too?

I liked the bumper sticker "WITH FASCISM ON THE RIGHT, COMMUNISM ON THE LEFT, WHERE DOES LIBERTY FIT IN?"

Anyone got the link for that?

Liberty is a concept, the others are systems...

It's like comparing beans and baguettes.

Liberty is not one thing in particular, I am certain that everyone has a different concept of true liberty.

Anyhow GLEN BECK has now used the terms SOCIALISM, COMMUNISM and FASCISM
per BECKS grill and my ears...

I cite BECK because he seems to be the peoples hero around here, while his program is being brought to you by... EXXON, BOFA, KAISER, COCA COLA, EXTENDS , MCDONALDS, BAER, SCB, SBC, AT&T....

My point is, you guys really think that the most powerful entities on the planet are going to fund TV programs that effectively RUIN NWO plans?

The hellish future is not a hellish government, it is a future where your entire existence is plotted and defined by what is good for the bottom line of entities listed above...

DO you think the BOARD members of all these companies are even American???

Glen Beck isn't even on the right track... He is leading you, but not to the truth - the advertisers say it all.

AS it is " LIBERTY " has been coopted/rented by NEWSCORP so that NEWSCORP can rack in the $$$$$$$$$, capitalize on your anger via ads, per your viewership.

FIGHT THE NWO BY WATCHING NWO ADS

[edit on 13-4-2009 by mental modulator]

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
You still are yet to actually reply to the OP Jenna. Are you defending these individuals and groups and their involvement in these tea party protests or not? Cut the dodging.

I did respond to the OP. As I said, most of it is a rant. You seem to be blaming everything you don't like about the tea parties on Beck, Hannity, and Fox News in general. Had you read my initial post, I clearly asked why you think that anyone who disagrees with Obama or the government listens to nothing but Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, or Fox News. I find it hard to believe that everyone who disagrees with Obama and/or the government listens to nothing but Fox News, so I asked why you think they do. Looks like a response to me.

You then switch from bashing Fox and "fringers" to bashing some tea party speakers on their voting record. Lets have a look at what Obama's record was for some of those:

Voted YES on reauthorizing the PATRIOT Act. (Mar 2006)
Voted NO on removing need for FISA warrant for wiretapping abroad. (Dec 2005)
Voted to fund war until 2006; now wants no blank check. (Nov 2007) (He wasn't in the US Senate until after the war began, so he obviously couldn't have voted for or against it. He had no problem supporting this war though until he decided to run for president.)
As for impeachment of Bush:

Obama: Impeachment is not acceptable
WASHINGTON (AP) — Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama laid out list of political shortcomings he sees in the Bush administration but said he opposes impeachment for either President George W. Bush or Vice President Dick Cheney.

Looks like Obama did the same things you complained about the Republicans doing, but it's ok when he does them? And you wonder why I have a hard time taking your OP seriously?

What facts?

How about the ones I just listed for starters. Or will you gloss those over as not being the same since they happened while he was a senator and not after the election? I'm guessing the latter.

Still has not replied to the information within the OP folks.

Still has not replied to the question asking for their definition of "fringer" folks. Much easier to point fingers and play the blame game I suppose.

My "rant" as you put it had the facts to back it up.

Except the part where you apparently can't explain why you think that Beck, Hannity, and Fox News are the only thing the people going to these tea parties listen to. You try to paint it all as some Fox News scheme, yet fail to answer a reasonable question that would clarify why you think the only people going to the tea parties listen to nothing but Fox. And I'm the one ignoring things?

Again, what is your explanation regarding the groups and their involvement in these tea party protests? Are you not concerned this has become a neocon fest? Or do you agree with them? Can you make up your mind and reply to the OP?

Again, I have responded. I'm not part of these groups, nor am I involved in a tea party protest, so how exactly do you suppose I am supposed to explain why any particular person is? What I am concerned about is that regardless of who is involved in these, they won't be taken seriously by many for the simple fact that there are Republicans or conservatives involved. Now if these protests were nothing but Democrats and liberals, then they would be taken seriously.

You didnt give any response to the content provided in the OP.

Oh, but I did. Again, I apologize if it was not to your liking.

Same brush? Why dont you cut painting yourselves in the same brush. Your walking hand in hand with neocons, white nationalists and former patriot act Iraq war supportive politicians, the same politicians that voted against impeachment of Bush, and your accuse me of painting you in the same bush?

Oh, sweet irony. Please put that paint brush away, it's not working too well.

Again are you defending the individuals and the groups in the OP with their involvement in these protests or not?

The speakers you name voted no differently than Obama, yet it's only horrible that they did it. Does that make sense to you? I don't watch Fox News, Hannity, or Beck aside from the occasional clip posted here. They are entitled to their opinions just as much as you or I and I'm quite sure they can defend themselves if they need to, and no I do not defend the racist group you mentioned for their race driven actions. If they are concerned with taxes and want to protest them, more power to them. If they are only joining the tea parties in an attempt to further their racist cause, then no I don't agree with their reasoning for joining.

Edit: removed duplicate words

[edit on 13-4-2009 by Jenna]

reply to post by Jenna


What is the goal of these tea parties???

Specifically?

I agree with the OP, for the MANY ( not all ) the goal is to regain a foot hold for GOP
agenda and future political contest. Why is that not a fair assertion?






[edit on 13-4-2009 by mental modulator]

What i dont like about these "modern teapartys" is that people go to the store, buy a box of tea (so your paying taxes) and then throw it into the water, what kind of protest is that? im gonna but your stuff but im just gonna throw it away, they dont care what u do with it after its bought. They are tryingto coralate going and throwing out tea you bought is the same as the boston tea party where the people stole from the government and then threw it away. People these days cant stand up for anything and it makes me sick to my stomach. ITS NOT THE SAME THING! YOUR NOT MAKING A STAND BY DOING THAT. sure u may get on the news but people will just go about there day cause you BOUGHT THE TEA! People need to revolt, to stand up like the people before them. They need to do somehing huge. not a 3$ box of tea you payd for urself that the government stil gets taxes on no matter if u drink it or throw it in water. People are stupid and need to think of things on a larger scale, unite, work as 1 to do more.

Originally posted by tylerc25211
What i dont like about these "modern teapartys" is that people go to the store, buy a box of tea (so your paying taxes) and then throw it into the water, what kind of protest is that? im gonna but your stuff but im just gonna throw it away, they dont care what u do with it after its bought. They are tryingto coralate going and throwing out tea you bought is the same as the boston tea party where the people stole from the government and then threw it away. People these days cant stand up for anything and it makes me sick to my stomach. ITS NOT THE SAME THING! YOUR NOT MAKING A STAND BY DOING THAT. sure u may get on the news but people will just go about there day cause you BOUGHT THE TEA! People need to revolt, to stand up like the people before them. They need to do somehing huge. not a 3$ box of tea you payd for urself that the government stil gets taxes on no matter if u drink it or throw it in water. People are stupid and need to think of things on a larger scale, unite, work as 1 to do more.

So what is the goal of this fight.revolt,revolution???

Yer ideas?

Oh and who is the enemy "SPECIFICALLY"?

reply to post by mental modulator


well the reason they are throwing out the teas is because they dont liek taxes, well my point is if they dont like it why are they BUYING tea and throwing it out, there stll paying taxes. there trying to compare it to the boston tea party where the people in that protest actualy did something, took the tea that the government was taxing then so bad for and threw it out, they didnt buy it from them then throw it out. Im not saying i wnt to do these things, all im saying is if u dont like the taxes dont buy a box of tea and throw it out, thats stupid.

Originally posted by tylerc25211
reply to post by mental modulator

 

well the reason they are throwing out the teas is because they dont liek taxes, well my point is if they dont like it why are they BUYING tea and throwing it out, there stll paying taxes. there trying to compare it to the boston tea party where the people in that protest actualy did something, took the tea that the government was taxing then so bad for and threw it out, they didnt buy it from them then throw it out. Im not saying i wnt to do these things, all im saying is if u dont like the taxes dont buy a box of tea and throw it out, thats stupid.

I agree...

I think people just need an outlet - if throwing out tea makes them feel good fine with me - although your points are strong and valid.

They should be tossing something that they do not pay taxes on...

Its half way joke to me.

reply to post by mental modulator


Directly from the Tax Day Tea Party website:

12 American Solutions for Jobs & Prosperity

1. Payroll Tax Stimulus. With a temporary new tax credit to offset 50% of the payroll tax, every small business would have more money, and all Americans would take home more of what they earn.
   
2. Real Middle-Income Tax Relief. Reduce the marginal tax rate of 25% down to 15%, in effect establishing a flat-rate tax of 15% for close to 9 out of 10 American workers.
   
3. Reduce the Business Tax Rate. Match Ireland’s rate of 12.5% to keep more jobs in America.
   
4. Homeowner’s Assistance. Provide tax credit incentives to responsible home buyers so they can keep their homes.
   
5. Control Spending So We Can Move to a Balanced Budget. This begins with eliminating Congressional earmarks and wasteful pork-barrel spending.
   
6. No State Aid Without Protection From Fraud. Require state governments to adopt anti-fraud and anti-theft policies before giving them more money.
   
7. More American Energy Now. Explore for more American oil and gas and invest in affordable energy for the future, including clean coal, ethanol, nuclear power and renewable fuels.
   
8. Abolish Taxes on Capital Gains. Match China, Singapore and many other competitors. More investment in America means more jobs in America.
   
9. Protect the Rights of American Workers. We must protect a worker’s right to decide by secret ballot whether to join a union, and a worker’s right to negotiate freely. Forced unionism will kill jobs at a time when we can’t afford to lose them.
   
10. Replace Sarbanes-Oxley. This failed law is crippling entrepreneurial startups. Replace it with affordable rules that help create jobs, not destroy them.
    
11. Abolish the Death Tax. Americans should work for their families, not for Washington.
    
12. Invest in Energy and Transportation Infrastructure. This includes a new, expanded electric power grid and a 21st century air traffic control system that will reduce delays in air travel and save passengers, employees and airlines billions of dollars per year.
    

They also have a pdf up that explains why they want to Reduce the Business Tax Rate

On paper it all sounds good. I have not looked into the possible ramifications of any of these though. The OP's assertion is not even remotely close to being fair given the list I just provided. It has nothing to do with partisan BS, and everything to do with taxes. Some may try to twist it for their own agenda's, but the tea parties themselves are not supposed to be partisan in the least and they certainly are not intended for the GOP to regain anything.

[edit on 13-4-2009 by Jenna]

Mod Edit: New External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 13-4-2009 by GAOTU789]

reply to post by mental modulator



I apologize on behalf of my fellow ATS posters and readers who have not stated their beliefs clearly. I know what "liberty" means to me, but I can't speak for others.

I believe the Federal Reserve must be abolished. It controls our individual liberty at a daily level. Every US citizen is a slave to the dollar in one way or another.

With the Federal Reserve, the Federal Income Tax system must be either abolished as the non-law that it IS, or it must be properly ratified to the Constitution of the United States.

I believe the Patriot Act must be abolished. There is no greater threat to the power of our beloved Constitution than the fact that this abberration still is law.

Sovereignty must be restored to the states. This country was founded as a republic, and has changed to a federal system. The primary power of these states united lies in the states.

These are just the major "bullet points" on what I feel the tea parties should be about.

For my feelings on attendance, as well as "something to chew on"... refer to my previous post at the end of p.1.

reply to post by mental modulator


yea sure, if it makes THEM feel better thats ok, but dont act like your better than someone for trying to "stand up" to the taxes you JUST paid on that item probobly 5 minuits ago. It is a prety big joke and i laugh whenever i see another story on the news of someone throwing out there tea haha.

reply to post by tylerc25211


You do realize they aren't actually buying tea and then throwing it away right? They are going to hold protests, the tea party tag is in reference to the Boston Tea Party where they snuck on the boats and threw all the tea overboard to protest taxes. This time around there isn't actually any tea involved.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Really theres nothing more than watching people protesting their feelings and expressing their rights to freedom of speech. However when idiocy and hypocrisy dominates those protests well then they become an embarresment to our god given freedom.

So it's okay for people in the United States to protest and express their feelings, but only as long as they agree with how you feel? That's what it seems like you are saying. What exactly do you consdier to be 'idiocy and hypocrisy' ... those things that you disagree with?

The Tea Parties are NOT dominated by idiocy and hypocrisy. Those are actually the things that they are protesting - idiocy and hypocrisy in our government.

I guess you'll just have to deal with the fact that people are loud in their opinions and those opinions are different from yours. Welcome to America.

reply to post by Jenna


im refering to the stories i saw on the news where prople where doing what i said, buying tea at the store and throwing tin the water.1 liner.

reply to post by tylerc25211


I don't watch much tv so I haven't heard about people actually throwing away tea. Do you by chance have a link to the news story or know where it happened so I can search for it? The Tax Day Tea Parties are not related to these incidents as far as I am aware. They are supposed to be actual protests.

reply to post by Jenna



That is an interesting point that most neglect to notice...

How does "NOT FILING A FEDERAL TAX RETURN" sound for protest?


[edit on 13/4/09 by cbianchi513]

reply to post by mental modulator

The hellish future is not a hellish government, it is a future where your entire existence is plotted and defined by what is good for the bottom line of entities listed above...

Star for that. I agree with your entire post.

This whole thing seems like a smokescreen. If these protests actually accomplish anything, I will be shocked. Hey, I could be wrong and I hope that I am. I just have a difficult time taking this at face value. There is something very manipulative about this.

*Large quote removed*
Well... Goodluck

I guess from my view I find it " convenient " that some of these demands are being brought about now... I assume the assumption is these tax breaks will stimulate the economy.

Anyhow sounds like you are not apart of the "partisan BS" per this post... I do understand your view and I certainly have experienced many of the OPs points per my ATS addiction.



BTW there is always partisan in politics - the largest groups swallow the smaller sub groups in order to achieve common goals, simple sociology and human nature.

goodluck to you on your party day



Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 13-4-2009 by GAOTU789]

Originally posted by cbianchi513
reply to post by mental modulator

 

I apologize on behalf of my fellow ATS posters and readers who have not stated their beliefs clearly. I know what "liberty" means to me, but I can't speak for others.

I believe the Federal Reserve must be abolished. It controls our individual liberty at a daily level. Every US citizen is a slave to the dollar in one way or another.

With the Federal Reserve, the Federal Income Tax system must be either abolished as the non-law that it IS, or it must be properly ratified to the Constitution of the United States.

I believe the Patriot Act must be abolished. There is no greater threat to the power of our beloved Constitution than the fact that this abberration still is law.

Sovereignty must be restored to the states. This country was founded as a republic, and has changed to a federal system. The primary power of these states united lies in the states.

These are just the major "bullet points" on what I feel the tea parties should be about.

For my feelings on attendance, as well as "something to chew on"... refer to my previous post at the end of p.1.

Well I agree with all of your bullet points less the future existence of income tax, although I agree a ratification is in order. IMO a income tax should NOT be used to
fund the FED, the FED SUCKS... The creation of money should be restored to the peoples entity (my libertarian streak amongst and few other things).

Even agree to on the state sov. to some degree.

although this country shifts left to right - right left-

HEY PRES JEB!

I love it

Originally posted by mental modulator
I guess from my view I find it " convenient " that some of these demands are being brought about now... I assume the assumption is these tax breaks will stimulate the economy.

It's more an anti-tax anti-spending movement according to this article. It ironically enough started with an impromptu rant by Rick Santelli of CNBC, further damaging the OP's claims of it being a Fox News creation.

BTW there is always partisan in politics

Which is something I find to be rather unfortunate. It's no wonder the country is in the shape it's in. People are too worried about labeling each other and snubbing those who have a different label to actually focus on fixing things.