The Three Different Types of Greys

reply to post by Gorman91


i refer you to my earlier post on the major advantage of bi pedal evolution as it concerns dexterity and the ability to use tools to create technology.

On the scale evolution.......don't you think evolution would have developed a more 'malleable' sale-dermal layer to express emotions?Not that it matters,it is just a secondary argument as I already proved big brains have NOTHING to do with emotional and social intelligence.Brain size is dictated by logic,problem solving,spatial relationships,etc.....

Crows.............easy.........explain why your 'advanced crows' haven't evolved to surpass humans?I think this scientific term will help you understand.......

Brain-to-body mass ratio (also known as the Encephalization Quotient or EQ) is a rough estimate of the possible intelligence of an organism.

en.wikipedia.org...

Again I suggest you research a lot of basic information on the human brain before jumping to conclusions and challenging someone one any related topics.....~JKrog

reply to post by jkrog08


Brain to body ration I believe is nearly equal to humans in crows.

And as to why their not building buildings like humans, why is that a mark of intelligence? There could be an intelligence amoeba more wiser than any human, but why does it have to build a civilization? Civilization is a human nature creation. We evolved to live in shelters and in communities. What dictates that other intelligences would need that? And a logical based creature wouldn't need to make cities, because it would not need family or social connections.

And how is bipedalism good for tool use? That's part of your hominid circular logic. You are assuming that it would need the human form to make tools to begin with. Why? the human form is good for tool use for earthly needs. But as you can tell by our robots, they don't need bipedalism for tool use. Every tool-using robot in a car factory stits upon a flat surface, like what a laying down creature would do. Every medical application tool using robot sits like a spider wit 4 legs, and its arms under it, because that tool use requires that form.

Human form does not equate to tool use. It is merely a good form for HUNTER tool use. bipedal forms are good for spears, javelins, etc. Tools for hunting. Tell me, your using your computer right now. Do you use 2 legs to use a computer? Or do you seat on a chair to serve as artificial back legs to your 2 front ones?

And such complex skin, such as in cuttle fish, is in the sea. It's a hell of a lot harder to do it on land. Take a squid out of the sea and see how well it can use camouflage. Water is very useful for camouflage. And the environment is perfect for that kind of skin to evolve. I forget why, but it's something to do with the skin type. Do you see any land creatures with skin like a cuttle fish? no. You see such skin only in the sea.

Returning to the beginning, all these things eliminate the need for the bipedal form on greys and reptilians.

DING

here ya go, third paragraph, first line

www.birding.in...

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91

And how is bipedalism good for tool use? That's part of your hominid circular logic. You are assuming that it would need the human form to make tools to begin with. Why? the human form is good for tool use for earthly needs. But as you can tell by our robots, they don't need bipedalism for tool use. Every tool-using robot in a car factory stits upon a flat surface, like what a laying down creature would do. Every medical application tool using robot sits like a spider wit 4 legs, and its arms under it, because that tool use requires that form.

My hominid circular logic?What are you,an 'alien'......lol?You like to use evolution so much........well think of this.....all these robots and such are created by WHO?Bi Pedal HUMANS.........Computer?Yea,I am using MY TWO FREE ARMS TO TYPE........Without those two arms we wouldn't have robots,nor would we be having this conversation in this manner over long distance.Tell me can your amoeba talk instantly across the entire world?Tell me is it on track to be able to protect itself from a natural disaster like comet impact or ice age?We just about can....So I guess we dumb humans live and your super smart amoeba and crows die.You are thinking way to linearly and one dimensionally.I am getting off now,but I look forward to continuing this tomorrow morning(central time.....does your amoeba or crows know what that means?)

[edit on 4/15/2009 by jkrog08]

How can you say I think one way when you think only the human form can be advanced?

Also, again, you are assuming what we do is the only way to do it.

And indeed, you use two arms. But you don't walk on them. And indeed, we made our machines. But if we make our machines to do work, why wouldn't we chose the bipedal form? because it isn't good for tool use. If the bipedal form was the cemdela crim of the tool use form, why wouldn't we make the tool using machines in our form? Why is it we can make a machine that can take apart a human in an operation, but we can;t make a simple bipedal surgeon robot? Why is it we can make disks on wheels clean our floors, but not a bipedal form to clean it? Because the bipedal form is not good for those tasks.

I'm sorry to ruin your view as people being so superior, but we are not. We are nothing more then the best creature that evolved in one corner of the earth. We just happened to move out of that little spot in Africa. And as we moved, we changed more. We continue to change too. The human form, in the end, is not the best other then for our own needs.

What if you had a planet with gravity just better than the moon and atmosphere so thick that you could almost swim in it, but it was filled with toxic chemicals that only the life there could adopt to.

That's just one planet.

What's the chances that planets like earth are out there? not good I tell you. Life giving? more than likely. I'd bet there's life in the nearest extra-solar planet that's made of rock and has water. But why does it have to look human?

Don't you realize that if you just changed the gravity just a bit, the bipedal form would be horrible for the environment? because all life would be completely different. The trees on that world would grow taller or shorter, making that future ape get eaten by a dinosaur or fall to his death. What if that meteor that hit Earth never hit, or the ice age never happened? then man kind wouldn't be pushed to the limit to evolve as it did. We'd all still be homo erectus.

Do not call me closed minded my friend. YOu are thinking that all life harboring worlds would have the same thing as Earth. Countless once-in-a-millennium events happened here to shape everything that can't be replicated elsewhere.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91

In the study, New Caledonian crows were presented with a trap-tube puzzle. In this task the crows had to extract food from a horizontal tube in a direction that avoids a trap. When the crows were presented with variations of the problem where arbitrary cues were removed, the crows continued to solve the problem. This suggested the crows had not simply associatively learnt to pull away from these arbitrary cues. The scientist then presented the crows with a trap-tube with two holes. One hole was bottomless, allowing food to fall through it and out of the trap. The other hole had a base and so trapped food that was pulled into it. The crows failed to consistently solve this problem and appeared reluctant to pull the food into either hole. This suggested the crows were using the position of the hole to guide their actions.

www.science.auckland.ac.nz...

I think I found your source for your crows.

I am not saying that every alien being would be bi-pedal,I just think the majority would.Because there is only a small range which is called "The Habitable Zone" where advanced life can exist.A planet within this zone would not very dramatically enough to diverge drastically from the prime evolutionary form here-bipedalism.What if the dinosaurs didn't go extinct and the meteor didn't hit as you said?Well we would have bi-pedal reptilian creatures going to space instead of mammals according to some major theories.

Here is information about opposable thumbs directly linked to increase in brain size and the use of hands.

"Hands" or any other means of manipulation
(From Dickinson and Schaller)
The ability to recognize objects and to use them as a means to an end, in other words as tools, is one of the characteristics of higher intelligence. However, if an animal lacks the physical equipment to use a tool, in other words if it lacks some way of manipulating objects, it is difficult to see how it could develop the cognitive processes associated with tool-use. Humans are unique on our planet in using languages with grammars, but they are also unique in their dexterity at manipulating objects. The fossil record indicates that opposable thumbs came before the big increases in brain size.
It seems likely that any creature developing high intelligence will need to have some means of manipulation before that intelligence can really fulfill its potential.

More......

The question immediately arises, what about the highly social insects, in that case? Certainly ants and bees, who have food sources that need memorization, who participate in complex societies, and who can manipulate things to some degree, would seem to have all the facilitating factors mentioned. What they do not have is an evolutionary history that gives them the option to grow big enough to have a large brain. And without a large brain, much learning is impossible. Once learned, any particular behavior requires relatively fewer neurons, but the ability to do something new requires lots of excess capacity.In order to be capable of truly complex learning, and hence complex levels of intelligence, it is essential to have a long period during which learning can take place. However, learning carries at a high price in terms of survival because the whole process implies precisely that the animal in question does not know the answer. Not knowing the answer is often fatal in nature, so learning can only occur in a relatively protected environment. The period of parental care while an animal is young is such an environment. This means that learning in animals is limited to juvenile stages, the more primitive the animal the more limited. Animals with more highly developed brains that have evolved from these earlier forms are still constrained by their evolutionary history: that is, they can only learn as juveniles. The solution is to extend the period of juvenility into adulthood.

www.molvray.com...

There are some very good things on that site pertaining to ET evolution based one what we know now from our own.Also note that the Greys are not all short,type B is 7-9 feet tall and the short ones are rumored to be clones of the tall ones(which a low gravity environment would produce).......the shortness of the others would seem logical for space saving reasons when creating the space craft.Also a larger being is unnecessary for the purpose that the short Greys seem to have(scientific research).

Here is a pic of the 'Dinoman'.......Possibly what Dinosaurs would have evolved into given the chance.
http://www.molvray.com/sf/exobio/evolution2.htm

reply to post by son of PC

Originally posted by son of PC

I have never heard a single account of them taking in any form of nourishment.

I have...
It would take a while to track them down - but I have read several accounts of greys rubbing an alcohol and "body fluid" mixture over their skin for absorption to feed –
And guess what - the "body fluids" they are reputed to use here are from cows and humans... so we could be the favourite dish !

I am very untrusting of the greys given all the accounts I have read... they seem unemotional, mission driven "individually mindless" but clever foot soldiers - sent to do a job.

Also, in the same way, grey "body waste" is said to be "sweated" out of their skin, which is one of the main reasons the are always reputed as smelling so very bad ! often causing a "throw up your guts" reaction in humans, like smelling something that has died and has been rotting well for while somewhere warm and damp.

All this accounts for the lack of what we think of as the digestive system in greys.

Once any humanoid race formed, and had hands that were capable of building and advancing its civilization, then on to cosmic voyages, and cloning, anything after that with any species is possible. There are no limits. Both naturally forming sentient life and cloned life is possible. What is strange is anyone assuming this can be put into a narrow box to examine. The most likely form that evolved early would be insectoid or reptilian.

Dude, posting a picture of a model does nothing. Nemo Remjet made something far more likely with his avesapiens.

nemo-ramjet.deviantart.com...

Nemo, and many other REAL speculative biologists and artists all agree that it is silly to have an upright smart dinosaur when 565 million years of dinosaur evolution has produced nothing but smarter and smarter dinosaurs on the same bipedal, horizontal back framework.

Animals do not change their entire frame work just because they get smarter. And it's well known that humans only walk upright because they evolved too fast for their brains. If Greys and Reptilians are more advanced then use, their probably older too, meaning they had more time to evolve, and probably less necessity to adapt to a growing brain size.

And it doesn't matter what kind of planet it is. It could be a clone of of Earth. But if that clone of Earth is just a few miles different in orbit, the KT extinction event may never have happened. Dinosaurs would still rule, and the feathered raptors would rule the world. Make the orbit just ever so slightly less wobbling then the earth and the ice age never happens, man kind is never challenged to near extinction to create our creativity and imagination, and we are all still homo erectus.

All these tiny tiny details that just one mile change would prevent from happening add up to a great extent.

I say look at Earth. Only we an penguins are upright bipedal. In the billions of years of life on earth, only 3 species I recall ever walked upright. The aforementioned and Therizinosaur. That means in the billions of species that have come and gone on this one little planet, only 3 have walked upright, and of those two, only one evolved a big brain.

Now take the math a different way. Look around and see all the diversity of life with smarter brains. They come in radical shapes and sizes. They range from a tiny crow, to a massive whale, to the limbless cuttle fish, to the a thundering elephant, to a opportunistic hunter called man. And that's only today. Imagine all the species that have come and gone in all kinds of diversity that had better smarts.

The point is simple, you are wrong. The bipedal upright shape of man is only good for a creature that rapidly evolved a big brain and needed to hunt meat. If a cuttle fish with no limbs at all can be smarter then a dog, then you are also wrong about thumbs. Because you need limbs to have thumbs, and the dog is one up on that, but yet the cuttle fish is smarter. Not only that, but the walking cuttle fish, which has evolved limb-like appendages is less smart then it's limbless larger relative.

In the end, these science articles that you post are wrong, because just walk out the door and you see all the different things of Earth that are alive.

Greys and reptilians simply do not go in line with science. What we discover now shows more and more so that the universe is a random machine that generates random things.

The planets in our solar system alone which have the potential for living things to grow on include Europa, Titan, Mars, Venus, and Earth. Those worlds are radically different, yet we know from life on Earth that life could exist there. That's in just our solar system. Take a chance to look at other solar systems and just think of the diversity.

The universe is not unilateral. Everything is different. The potential for things to repeat themselves exists, but not near each other. Nor at the same times.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by Gorman91]

reply to post by mystiq


Why? Because insects and reptiles evolved early on Earth? What if you had a planet where there was so much vapor and water that you wouldn't need reptilian skin. Amphibian skin would do just as good. You are assuming based on Earth's history. But if a planet had more water on it, you wouldn't have an Earth-like history.

I think, but I'm not sure, that reptilians would require a warmer planet. But insectoids and perhaps cretaceous beings could form on many planets that are further out from their star. This leads to many more possibilities for life to go forward ahead of other worlds.

But then why would they need to go upright? The legacy of dinosaurs is that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Dinosaurs are one of the few species that are what we can call "evolutionarily perfect". In other words, they existed for so long that there was literally nothing left to evolve into. And yet, they still retained 2 simple frames. quadrupedal and bipedal. The quads were built for bulk and weight, the bi were built for speed and hunting. And for pretty much all of dinosaur history, that stayed constant, with a few exceptions. They got smarter and smarter over the eons, but never changed their framework. The frame of birds today is the same exact frame that Triassic dinosaurs had.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by Gorman91]

jkrog08, I'm going to do you a favor. I'm getting all my creations of intelligent species together that I ever drew and showing you them. I want you to see what my mind alone can conceive of, let alone the universe. Late though, I got to sleep some.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by Gorman91]

That the whole thing is random is merely a theory. I personally believe this entire universe is a creation and that we're all parts of our Creator, who is nothing like the war mongling, judgmental being in the scriptures. However, for life to progress in physical form, as it has done, and to develop in the use of intellect and tools, unless it immediately becomes incredibly psi with far more advanced metaphysics than we possess, it would need to gradually adapt physically to a more humanoid form and hands for building.

reply to post by mystiq


why? The only human form that is really useful in a civilized species is fingers. That's all. You can have those fingers anywhere. On your feet even. But why does any other human form need to come in?

And if the universe is of a God, why would he be so bland? Isn't a creator God who is able to create all the diversity around us more likely to form ever more diverse species out there? Why would this God make all sentient species the same? If this God would want true love and happiness in his universe, he would create radical intelligent life forms of many types so it would force learning of each and every one, the spearhead for multiculturalism, acceptance, and love.

reply to post by Gorman91

I don't think you understand the concept of something having cognitive abilities and something being intelligent.I have only thing I have to say and then we are done because this thread is being derailed to much.Your crows and cuttle fish have no idea what life is and what causes what,to begin to even comprehend the vast difference in human thought and animal thought is like comparing man to God.Your animals live and die,never doing anything other then the natural cycle of things........they do not create art,they do not build airplanes,they do not debate(like me and you) all they do is what is INATE,they never go outside of the box of programing within their DNA like we have and do.All they do is recognize SIMPLE patterns(the most 'intelligent' of the animals),pattern recognition is all they do,they DO NOT UNDERSTAND anything,they don't know what it is or why it was made.A simple sentence to disprove your theory on animals challenging human minds is again this:Why aren't crows having this conversation right now?As far as your infeasibility of Greys and Reptoids,again your are incorrect.You mentioned in your last post that Greys and Reptoids would have to be much older than us,well your right.Reports state that they are as much as one billion years ahead of us.Also no limbless creature is going to be able to travel faster than light over vast distances of vacuum space(at least any likely or corporeal creature).Limbs=Advancement=Survival..........it is simple.I am done we will now continue with the topic at hand.~JKrog

reply to post by Gorman91


Again, opinons. God isn't bland. This is an incredible soul evolution. I don't have to speculate, by the way. I don't ask why trees are the same on earth as they are in the nasa photographs that they try to claim are something else but look identical to the coniferous forests on earth. Marsanamolyresearch.com shows photos of mars and japan from the air, and wow, they're the same thing.
So, for those who understand that they must believe their eyes to begin with and not the slight of hand that NASA pulls, I have a question. Why are trees the same thing on planets? Why is their a sculpture of a dolphin with water bubbles in cedonia? Why is it that life takes on recognizable forms? I don't even have to ask these questions, not all that curious.

I've seen greys. I've seen nordics. My own family has been pinged by and witnessed their crafts. My son has seen a grey. This is way beyond discussing architectural preferences for life. Life exists in abundance in this universe, and what we see is humanoid. Its obviously not limited to humanoid, but humanoid plays a big role in advanced life.

reply to post by mystiq


Yea it just seems logical that life on other planets would take the same evolution that ours did to create intelligent life.BTW do you have a link for those tree pictures,I used to know the site but have forgot.

reply to post by jkrog08


I'll find them. There are a few really good examples. Also what he writes on the page is worth reading as he's doing photo analysis and has found signs of tampering numerous times on the NASA photos. It appears, the lakes are lakes, and he discusses the edges of the "water". Its very good information.

marsanomalyresearch.com...

and

marsanomalyresearch.com...

and

marsanomalyresearch.com...
(theres 5 parts to this one)


Heres water with ripples, and as an artist, I did notice this already:
marsanomalyresearch.com...

marsanomalyresearch.com...
This one has the pics of Japan and Mars for comparison.


As for humanoid, not to mention possibly canine, this pic is famous. But more so is his note of what seems to be tampering.

marsanomalyresearch.com...



[edit on 16-4-2009 by mystiq]

reply to post by mystiq


Wow,I have never seen some of those.I remember a thread on here about it,I would think though that that is pretty solid evidence.Also I would like to know what NASA said about it(I cant remember,I might try and find the thread).If they are trees it shows the similar life patterns.

You'd think! The explanations they come up with are so convoluted, such a stretch beyond the most obvious and simple explanation, which is right in front of you, and that your eyes have already discovered. Our "lying eyes" already behold the truth.

Theres some more indications on Mars that life has predetermined forms for whatever reasons:

www.246.ne.jp...

my favorite, humanoid and beautiful:

herotwins.hypermart.net...

The chance of even one eye naturally occurring is thousands to one, but the entire beautifully created sculpture, with hair, face, maybe even a cleft in the jaw (I like to think so) and headdress, unbelievably beyond the scope of nature.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by mystiq]

reply to post by mystiq


We got some great members on here who research moon and mars anomalies.Mikesingh is on Mars and Zorgon is on the moon(lol,not literally,I hope)....Have you read any of their threads?It just makes me so angry that people are so ignorant to what seems to be really going on around all of us.I never asked you......do you remember anything about what the specific agenda was for the pleadians and greys?