"Intelligent Design" is a conspiracy.

"But you dont get it ...to teach only evolution is not fair. If you only teach a child one side the coin then thats bias right there. Kids should know about the whole evo vs. ID argument."

You don't want "fair" you want your propaganda injected into science classes. It belongs in Mythology classes with other religions, not in science classes.

I do appreciate your providing examples of why ID should be considered a conspiracy, BTW. You're a textbook case of the fundamentalist viewpoint that we're all too stupid to see what ID really is.

Maybe if you look at it as The Intelligence that intelligently designed science and the greatest objects and forces in the universe, you can grasp God a little better. You can't use science to disprove a Creator, only further the evidence for it. Of course most people might not get it until masses and masses of people
realize that if we insist on searching for meaning in meaninglessness we won't find it. God IS meaning. Anyway any intelligence like that would be out of comprehension for us anyway as it would be OUTSIDE OF space and time not part of it. Thus why in a word we call this God.

[edit on 9-4-2009 by ShowMeEvil]

Originally posted by UrsusMajor

Originally posted by ShowMeEvil


You really have to be the half intelligent design to not figure out that something greater than us created/organized and designed the universe and life.

It's really not that hard to figure out!

Too bad Einstein, Newton, Tesla and Galileo didn't meet you. They could have just gone to one of your lectures instead of spending their lives working on these "Simple" things.

Anyone with an intelligent mind that knows how to use it, already knows life and the universe was not an accident.

Originally posted by ShowMeEvilAnyone with an intelligent mind that knows how to use it, already knows life and the universe was not an accident.

Your evidence for this, please? Non-religious evidence, that is. "Faith" is not evidence, it's the rejection of evidence.

Originally posted by ShowMeEvil
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

I became an atheist at age seven, when I was asked not return to Sunday School because the preacher couldn't answer my questions about the Bible. I realized it was just a con job to get money for doing nothing, so I never went back.

You realized this at the age of 7.

How old are you now?

Funny

Let's put it this way, Harry S. Truman was president of the US when I was born. (I will give you that I didn't know the term "atheist" at 7 yo. But I did know that religion was bunk at that point.)

[edit on 9-4-2009 by ShowMeEvil]

Originally posted by lastxdance
Maybe if you look at it as The Intelligence that intelligently designed science and the greatest objects and forces in the universe, you can grasp God a little better. You can't use science to disprove a Creator, only further the evidence for it. Of course most people might not get it until masses and masses of people
realize that if we insist on searching for meaning in meaninglessness we won't find it. God IS meaning. Anyway any intelligence like that would be out of comprehension for us anyway as it would be OUTSIDE OF space and time not part of it. Thus why in a word we call this God.

The point here, for me anyway, is that God isn't necessary to the Universe. No Great Sky Fairy necessary, just time and opportunity. Both were available in ample quantities.

And, humans created gods when they were ignorant of science. Gods have become redundant as our ignorance recedes. Clinging to campfire tales from the Neolithic is a little strange when you're conversing with me via computer, isn't it?

Correct me if I'm wrong. (Agnostic, by the way.)

Did you just call me stupid?

Originally posted by Revolution-2012
Correct me if I'm wrong. (Agnostic, by the way.)

Did you just call me stupid?

"Ignorant" means not in possession of essential information. I'm ignorant of Spanish, can't speak much of it at all.

"Stupid" means you're a Republican.

Sorry for the lack of clarity, BTW.

[edit on 9-4-2009 by Gawdzilla]

[edit on 9-4-2009 by ShowMeEvil]

Originally posted by ShowMeEvil

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

Originally posted by ShowMeEvilAnyone with an intelligent mind that knows how to use it, already knows life and the universe was not an accident.

Your evidence for this, please? Non-religious evidence, that is. "Faith" is not evidence, it's the rejection of evidence.

You don't need faith to look at.

Leafs, plants, animals, fruit, flowers, insects, water, fish, mountains, planets and everything found in this existence.

If you believe we are the most intelligent life out there and everything was by accident then all I can say is you have a very shallow blocked mind.

At our current state of technology/knowledge as a species do we have the capability to even create the least of these things?

Do we even really truly understand how everything works?

Less than 1% if that I'm afraid.

It's easy to water a plant and watch it grow from sunlight and air but do you really understand how that seed grew into a flourishing tree with fruit from nothing more than water, sun and air?

Where did I say we were the crown of creation? I don't doubt that were might have been or will be creatures smarter than we are. (It really wouldn't take much from what I've seen.) But to go from that to some Great Sky Fairy who created everything is a leap of faith, not of science.

You look at nature and decide that it was created, then look for evidence to support your conclusion. That's faith. Front loading your inquiry. Backwards to how it should be done. Religion does that to minds. Sad, really.

Would you all stop posting 3 page quotes? It's annoying, and takes up more space on the page.

So I'm ignorant that I don't understand information painted by evolution?

I do understand evolution, and there is scientists with multiple PHD's and many awards that will tell you, the theory is not a thesis, it is not complete.

I don't think some dude, kickin back with a beer, in the middle of the cosmos, decided to paint reality. I don't think any conscious entity did.

What's to say the universe is conscious, but oblivious to being an entity?

You can't say that we just popped up, Adam and Eve, that's ignorant.

But what you definitely can't tell me, is why does the fabric of space and time exist, why does science exist, why does matter exist, why does light exist, more importantly, how did the foundation of reality come to exist. A big bang explains how the mater combined, and exploded forth, it does not explain how the matter was created, it does not explain how it exists, it does not explain why we let alone any other sub atomic particle exist, bottom line.

[edit on 9-4-2009 by Revolution-2012]

reply to post by Revolution-2012


"So I'm ignorant that I don't understand information painted by evolution?"

I was referring the people who thought up religions, not to you specifically. Try to be less defensive, it will facilitate communication.

"I do understand evolution, and there is scientists with multiple PHD's and many awards that will tell you, the theory is not a thesis, it is not complete."

Evolution is not a theory, it's a fact. The mechanism that drives evolution is still being understood. We become less ignorant every year.

Those "scientists with multiple PHD's and many awards", how many of them are evolutionary biologists and how many of them are talking about things of which they are not trained? (Please, please, please, mention Behe.
)

[edit on 9-4-2009 by ShowMeEvil]

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Let me facilitate my communication for you.

You are reluctant to explain to me how we exist, beyond evolution, evolution is irrelevant and would not exist with out a singular atom.

You can not explain, unless you are an alien, or you've magically tapped into 100% of your brain's capability, how the HELL does matter exist, light, wind, reality.

How does it exist? Is it simple the matrix it always and always will be?

Why? Why has it always been? Where did it come from?

As a scientist, myself, and you, you must at least find that interesting at the least.

Ignorance is believing in faith, and your faith is not limited to believing it has and always been, however, that's a irreparable call for you to make if you suggest it has and always will be, in one way or another, because you CANT prove that.

Hope I facilitated myself enough for you.

reply to post by Revolution-2012


"You are reluctant to explain to me how we exist, beyond evolution, evolution is irrelevant and would not exist with out a singular atom."

Your facilitation failed at this point.

You are, perhaps, saying that SOMETHING had to create EVERYTHING? If so, why?

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

Your facilitation failed at this point.

You are, perhaps, saying that SOMETHING had to create EVERYTHING? If so, why?

Rhetoric.

I'm not saying something did, I'm saying you can't explain to me why anything exists in the first place. It is a unanswered problem, our own paradox me and you are stuck in until we die and are eventually consumed by worms and with that worm's fecal remnants, we feed a tree, which more than likely one day will be chopped down, and printed into a bible.

Crappy isn't it?

Unfortunate, the scientific method suggests that to be the harsh reality.

Is me believing in some kind of reality after death relevant to your proposed thread, yes. Is you believing we all just appeared about a random event that took place 13 billion years ago, relevant to the nature of why and how? Yeah.

Me neither you can explain why that event happened, why it was ever "invented" if you will. Created. Manifested from infinite negative of nothing ever existing to begin with.

What i'm facilitating to YOU, is until you an explain to me there is no other dimension, no second level to the Pac Man of reality, and how it always has been and will be, I let alone anyone else, have just as much of a right to make our own belief without ridicule or speculation by you, as we are as restricted to you *BELIEVING* not *KNOWING* how and why everything is.

Before you think I'm not reading understanding your communicative skills, understand you're not reading mine, because I see things 180 degrees from what you do.

reply to post by Revolution-2012


You're going on faith. I can't trump that. Faith isn't amenable to reason.

However, if you want to deal with facts, I'm your lizard. I don't care what you believe, in the end, I just don't want religious beliefs disguised as "science" to be peddled along side real science in our schools.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Prove to me you're not believing in faith that the universe has always been, and always will be.

You are RELUCTANT.

Beat around the bush all you want, you have nothing to prove it has and always will be, because time doesn't have a beginning.

Science suggests it, but it does not explain how, there for it c a n n o t b e q u a n t i f i e d into a R E A L I T Y.

It's unproven, therefore you believing the big bang is the complete explanation of why we exist, fails. On monumental proportion.

You cannot nor any other person explain to me the architecture and structure of how the universe even came to be, why a subatomic particle is here, you CAN NOT explain that.

Until you, or another scientist explains why everything is possible, why the particles combined in your monitor are there, why this is happening right now, why anything is, you cannot explain to me how the entirety of everything exists.

Why.
How.
Does.
The.
Universe.
Exist.
Why.
How.
Do.
Particles and Atoms.
Exist.

I've repeated this question in the past 3 posts, so you either some visual aids or some brain studies done, because you weren't able to see this question the past 3 posts.

You are believing in faith, not as much so as me, but you are.