"Intelligent Design" is a conspiracy.

Originally posted by ChemBreather
The Monkey Man theory I dont belive one bit out of.
Why are there still monkeys?
Why dont the monkeys drive cars?
Why are the monkeys just as dumb now as for 10.000 years ago?
How can a monkey turn into a human in one fingersnap counting in Time. As have been somewhat proven, is that humans evolving from one cell to what we are today, would have taken alot longer than the time that have passed since the start of the universe 16.5 billion years ago..

There is noway all the right enzymes just happen to get together in the right order to create life naturally in this short ammount of time...
... Think abit !!!

1. If Americans are largely of European Descent - then why are there still Europeans? Figure that out, and you'll have your answer.

2. Properly trained apes can drive cars... as well as pilot simple space shuttles. Don't you remember HAM the chimp? Well, perhaps piloted is a misnomer. They trained him to preform complex tasks within the module so as to test what effects space travel had on motor coordination and biology.

However, as to why they don't have our level of technology and reasoning, I think it's due to their smaller prefrontal cortex. They didn't evolve down the same evolutionary path that humans and our earlier ancestors did. The fossil record is full of hominid species which have skull shapes indicating a generally progressive increase in certain areas of the brain. We also have evidence that our sister species - neanderthal - were quite intelligent, skilled in both abstract thought and technology.

3. I didn't realize there were comparative datasets available to gauge the intelligence level of monkeys 10,000 years ago vs. today's modern monkeys.

4. A "fingersnap" of time in several millions of years and generations. In even less a timeframe, a certain species of east asian wolf was turned into a chihuahua. Everything can be considered a finger snap in time, if you extrapolate the length of time out long enough.

5. Proven? How so? If you are regarding the absurd "probabilities" numbers many creationists have proposed - you should know that first off, there is no way to gauge any sort of probability concerning a subject with so many unknown factors. In other words, they just made it up. They spout the ridiculously long numbers, but have you ever seen the equations they used to come up with such a number? Secondly, chemistry is not random. It's not pure accident that hydrogen bonds with oxygen. Life is chemistry. So any reliance on figures based on random probabilities are bogus from the outset - because they completely ignore the science of chemistry, from which biology emerges.

Lastly: Monkeys are not Apes. Humans are Apes. If you cannot even distinguish the difference between a monkey and an ape, then what the hell makes you think you're educated enough to even begin to question the science of evolution?

This post is ridiculous to me, being a Christian Mystic.

I believe in Intelligent design being the cause of evolution. You gotta admit, evolution itself is intelligent and does look like a desgin.

Anyway to say its a conspiracy is soooo stupid ...you might as well say everything is a conspiracy then.

Its very simple: Science is protecting one view and "religion" is protecting another view. They are both at war with each other over this issue.

When the whole time, right under their own noses, they've both been right.

Originally posted by dominicus
This post is ridiculous to me, being a Christian Mystic.

I believe in Intelligent design being the cause of evolution. You gotta admit, evolution itself is intelligent and does look like a desgin.

Anyway to say its a conspiracy is soooo stupid ...you might as well say everything is a conspiracy then.

Its very simple: Science is protecting one view and "religion" is protecting another view. They are both at war with each other over this issue.

When the whole time, right under their own noses, they've both been right.

Why would we have to admit evolution is "intelligent" and "does look a design"? Humans seek patterns, it's inherent in their nature. The fact that no design may actually exist doesn't stop us from seeing one.

The Institute for Creation Research was founded to further the fundamental plans to dominate the United States with their beliefs. If that isn't a conspiracy nobody has ever found one, not even Mr. Marrs.

Science challenges viewpoints, its the nature of the system. Scientists make their names by upsetting currently held views. Religions cling to their views regardless of what happens to disprove them.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


For me it's quite simple because I consider myself intelligent.

We were created by intelligent design that is why we are intelligent.

A few of us however were created by half intelligent design I reckon.

It will take many lifetimes for those half intelligent design nitwits to figure it out.

Originally posted by ShowMeEvil
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

For me it's quite simple because I consider myself intelligent.

We were created by intelligent design that is why we are intelligent.

A few of us however were created by half intelligent design I reckon.

It will take many lifetimes for those half intelligent design nitwits to figure it out.

I think that post would tend to disprove your assumptions.

Your "logic" is circular in the extreme, btw.

"Intelligent Design" is a conspiracy.

I am all for education. Education is very important. My beliefs are to educate children of all forms of beliefs and give the facts on each one.

If we fail to educate our children on all forms of beliefs I think that would be worse than keeping certain things out. Knowledge is power these days and the more knowledge the more powerful our future generations will become. Which is only good if the power from knowledge is not abused in some ridiculous way that is.

Originally posted by wiredamerican
"Intelligent Design" is a conspiracy.

I am all for education. Education is very important. My beliefs are to educate children of all forms of beliefs and give the facts on each one.

If we fail to educate our children on all forms of beliefs I think that would be worse than keeping certain things out. Knowledge is power these days and the more knowledge the more powerful our future generations will become. Which is only good if the power from knowledge is not abused in some ridiculous way that is.

I'm all for that. But I say we should educate children in science in science classes and mythology in mythology classes, and not try to sneak mythology into science classes under the guise of "well, alchemy is/was/might have been a science" type thinking. That's what the ICR.org's mission is, to put mythology into the schools in every way possible. Their first target is the evolutionists, but eventually they want to replace physics with "goddidit". We'll be back in the Bronze Age PDQ if they win.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Let's look at it this way.

Evolution is partly true it does happen as all things grow, change, adapt depending on location, temperature variables, food intake, blah blah blah etc. etc. etc... It does not answer creation so let's keep it out of the picture for now.

The Big Bang is chewing gum for the lost and half intelligent design nutcases.

Something does not come from nothing!
PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD.

Let's keep it simple.

We are not here by accident,
We did not create ourselves,
We did not create the universe,

Something greater than us is up there and involved.
I'm not saying it's God, I'm not saying it's Aliens.
But it's something that could be both and then some.

1 thing is for absolute certainty that we are here living because someone/someone's or something is up there allowing us to.
We were created by something/someone/someone's of higher intelligence no if's buts or questions about it.

Just look at the complexcity of the universe and human body alone.
If you are a Scientist and you think you have the answers I ask you, can you create/design a species such as us? Can you create a solar system if you were given the tools?

We are really just ants in the grand scheme of things, there are much higher levels of intelligence that we are not aware of observing, watching and even helping at times. The earth would have been destroyed millions if not more than years ago if something was not. If the universe came to by chance, it would certainly not stand, it doesn't make sense.

Nothing does not produce something and if it does remember there must be a Magician behind the scene somewhere pulling the stunts.





[edit on 7-4-2009 by ShowMeEvil]

"Something greater than us is up there and involved.
I'm not saying it's God, I'm not saying it's Aliens.
But it's something that could be both and then some. "

Nothing but wishful thinking, I'm afraid. You can produce absolutely no verifiable proof that we are here for a reason, or that we're anything but lucky. And being afraid of the dark, you must force the facts into a palatable form to keep the dark at bay. Sad way of thinking, really.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
I am all for education. Education is very important. My beliefs are to educate children of all forms of beliefs and give the facts on each one.

so what do you think the scientific viewpoint is then?

enough with the bullcrap rants against other peoples beliefs, what do you think should be taught and why?

also, what is the evidence for your viewpoint.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
"Something greater than us is up there and involved.
I'm not saying it's God, I'm not saying it's Aliens.
But it's something that could be both and then some. "

Nothing but wishful thinking, I'm afraid. You can produce absolutely no verifiable proof that we are here for a reason, or that we're anything but lucky. And being afraid of the dark, you must force the facts into a palatable form to keep the dark at bay. Sad way of thinking, really.

No my friend, the Sad way of thinking is your thoughts on the subject.

You really have to be the half intelligent design to not figure out that something greater than us created/organized and designed the universe and life.

It's really not that hard to figure out!

reply to post by Gawdzilla

Why would we have to admit evolution is "intelligent" and "does look a design"? Humans seek patterns, it's inherent in their nature. The fact that no design may actually exist doesn't stop us from seeing one. The Institute for Creation Research was founded to further the fundamental plans to dominate the United States with their beliefs. If that isn't a conspiracy nobody has ever found one, not even Mr. Marrs. Science challenges viewpoints, its the nature of the system. Scientists make their names by upsetting currently held views. Religions cling to their views regardless of what happens to disprove them.

Doesn't it require some level of intelligence for a person to notice a pattern within nature??? Patterns set in stone are just that, but those that evolve are more than simple patterns ...they become alive.

Science and religion are pretty much the same things, just like in Religion, when there is a new discovery made in science that threatens many of the "old timers with big ego's" there is a whole attack on this new theory.

Yeah you're right in that science may be a little more open to new ideas, but there is still all these biases and gate keepers at the top who have much say so.

Just look back not too long ago into history when Quantum physics was first rearing its head, the establishment at the time was freaking out about this and fighting it

Beyond religion, the overall message if you dig deep enough, is that there is a God, as an ocean, and we are all tiny drops of it, or manifestations of it, working on re-merging back with God.

Look at Bose/Einstein condensate. WHen it reaches absolute zero, atoms become waves, and then they become one. There are hints all around us of truth.

To be honest there is really no point in even discussing this. If there is a conspiracy, it will evolve itself either to success or to failure and there's nothing anyone can do about it except to perhaps alter its evolution by slowing or speeding up its progress.

If there isnt a conspiracy then this is all just a waste of time, unless part of this topic's evolution is for someone like yourself to consider it a conspiracy, just as everyone else will make their own judgement about it. All part of the program.

WHat we are ultimately going to see, is science, and the truth behind religions, i.e. spiritual realms and God's existence will be married and then we will have leaps and bounds.

That is the next logical and inevitable step in the evolution process of both science and religion. Study the mystics and those who are experiencing God directly. If you put a team of mystics together with an open minded team of scientists then you'd make some of the biggest breakthroughs in the history of science.

But until then, find me 5 or 10 scientists who really would sit down and take advice or ideas from a mystic. Won't happen, ego, bias, stigma, etc. They have closed themselves in a box, most of them anyway.

Even the Atom was first proposed by a Mystic in India in 2000-3000 B.C. named Kanada. He claimed to be able to see atomically.

The Institute for Creation Research isn't going to get anywhere or overtake the country/world with its views. Fundamentalism is dying, and there is always a fundamentalist who eventually see's past this limited view and moves on to embrace or be open to all things. It would be impossible for this Institute to take it all over.

I'm sure they would want that, but look at what they are up against, the minds, the ideals, the funding necessary to achieve such a task, the territory, the time it would take. Forget about it.

"Doesn't it require some level of intelligence for a person to notice a pattern within nature??? Patterns set in stone are just that, but those that evolve are more than simple patterns ...they become alive."

Not at all. Honey bee scouts dance in a pattern to relay information on places where the workers can find pollen and nectar. Other insects recognize specific patterns in flowers for the same purpose. Patterns are not intelligently designed in nature.

I think our existance is too complicated for us mortals to understand. Just treat others like you want to be treated. Would we still have Religion if everybody loved everbody and we all lived forever? (Think about that) On a side note, Daniem I think your avatar is awsome!

[edit on 4/7/2009 by PammyK]

It's pretty well documented that college professors who even bring up the subject of intelligent design in writings loose their jobs. I think it was Ben Stein's movie? For sure the conspiracy is on the other side. ID is simple reason and common sense based on what real scientific evidence there is for the true complexity of life and the ridiculousness of believing it is the result of randomness. There is an obvious long standing conspiracy to promote Evolution, I'd be worried about that. Evolution is a promotion of the Vatican/NWO just as "religion" so to say was their promotion in the dark ages. Of course today, we're in the darker ages with a slaughter far outpacing the old days. The think to be concerned about it the very obvious repression of other ideas by the educational establishment which has clearly been massively infiltrated for those kinds of repressions.

Originally posted by ReelView
It's pretty well documented that college professors who even bring up the subject of intelligent design in writings loose their jobs. I think it was Ben Stein's movie? For sure the conspiracy is on the other side. ID is simple reason and common sense based on what real scientific evidence there is for the true complexity of life and the ridiculousness of believing it is the result of randomness. There is an obvious long standing conspiracy to promote Evolution, I'd be worried about that. Evolution is a promotion of the Vatican/NWO just as "religion" so to say was their promotion in the dark ages. Of course today, we're in the darker ages with a slaughter far outpacing the old days. The think to be concerned about it the very obvious repression of other ideas by the educational establishment which has clearly been massively infiltrated for those kinds of repressions.

It's not at all documented, except in the ID propaganda piece you cite. The poster child of that movie didn't even get fired from his job, he was only on temporary work and there was no reason to extend it. Repeating thoroughly debunked myths is not the way to support your claim.

reply to post by Gawdzilla

Not at all. Honey bee scouts dance in a pattern to relay information on places where the workers can find pollen and nectar. Other insects recognize specific patterns in flowers for the same purpose. Patterns are not intelligently designed in nature.

Patterns are not intelligently designed in nature??? Prove this to me then!!! Yeah insects recognize patterns because they have a level of intelligence, just as the flower is broadcasting its pattern with intelligence so that its seed can be spread by the bee. Mutual intelligence.

We as intelligent beings, use patterns to organize life, to make it easier, faster, proper etc. We are patterns: birth, life, death. I dont see anyone breaking this pattern.

Patterns are everywhere. Even when we create something, we include patterns in it, whether it's 1's and 0's in a programming language or a set of paintings.

To create a pattern requires intelligence. If you give a pen or a paint brush to someone in a coma or someone who had the intelligence section of their brain removed, you wouldn't see any resulting patterns in the drawings.

Evolution itself is a set of patterns: Something is born, finds the best way to survive and best set of survival genes to pass on to offspring, mates, then dies.

Evolution itself, is a pattern, is intelligent in its own design and requires your own intelligence to realize what I just said in that statement.

Just look around. I.D. is staring us all in the face and laughing.

Better yet lets just throw some pun out there. There was once nothing, and out of nothingness and no possible way of anything to come from this nothingness we got something, that evolved and eventually is currently at its present state what we have here.

Of course I threw in some pun about origin in there, but only to bring to attention that design itself and by itself as well as intelligence itself and by itself is all around us if we can just tune in and see it, we will see it everywhere

"Patterns are not intelligently designed in nature??? Prove this to me then!!! Yeah insects recognize patterns because they have a level of intelligence, just as the flower is broadcasting its pattern with intelligence so that its seed can be spread by the bee. Mutual intelligence."

You're the one claiming "intelligent design", you prove it.

There are far more random things in the world than there are patterned ones. Cherry-picking the rare example of pattern and then claiming baselessly that that pattern "proves" something is absurd.

reply to post by Gawdzilla

You're the one claiming "intelligent design", you prove it. There are far more random things in the world than there are patterned ones. Cherry-picking the rare example of pattern and then claiming baselessly that that pattern "proves" something is absurd.

For me to prove I.D. to you, I would need a perspective gun like the one in Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

.....or some kind of contraption, that when turned on, would automatically tune your awareness and consciousness beyond logic and reason so you can see it all around you for yourself.

and of course if the first 2 didnt work .....you'd have to travel down a lengthy mystical spiritual road full of deprogramming your logic, reason, and opening your heart to universal love and optimized awareness to see this.

Unfortunately, there are more people existing that don't see I.D. all around us than there is that do. And what usually happens when we have a case of majority/minority in anything? Well in that case you get the majority pretty much running the show, calling all the shots in most positions of power, and calling the minority a bunch of idiots.

Even randomness is a pattern. If randomness wasn't a pattern then we wouldnt be able to realize it was randomness and wouldnt be discussing it now, cause we wouldnt know what it is. Randomness is a pattern of randomness .....still a pattern

Not only that, but there is a whole branch of mathematics with equations, professors and theories that study the possibility of there being patterns and order in chaos. Even infinity ...see my signature by Georg Cantor, is studied and used by science.

If anything is random you might as well say the king of all randomness is infinity ....see infinity has to explore every possible possibility for its true nature to be infinite ....including order and chaos. But infinity itself is a design and is an intelligent idea (or reality which ever you prefer) ...and so by its own nature of having to explore every possible possibility including patterns and randomness .......it makes the subjects that it is exploring; patterns, and designs, and sets, and organizes them, and deorganizes them, and destructs them.

You would have to imagine this mentally and in the grand scheme of things down to every atom and wave in existence all the way up to every possible Universe and dimension and space that all of this is in to see that infinity exploring itself through every possible possibility is in fact designed to do so. It itself has to be intelligent to be able to explore itself through every possible possibility.

If infinity wasn't intelligent, then it would lack that one characteristic(intelligence) for it to be infinity.

If infinity wasn't self aware of itself, then it would lack that characteristic(self awareness) for it to be infinity.

If infinity wasn't a design, then it would lack that characteristic(design) for it to be infinity.

If infinity wasn't true and didnt exist, then it would lack that characteristic(truth and existence) for it to be infinity. Plus we would be discussing it here cause we wouldnt know what it is and we wouldnt be using it in math.

So it's intelligent by nature, and also by nature has to create every possible possibility so it can explore it.

This all just to say that everything I mentioned above, about infinity, has been, and is being studied by the smartest people in the world. And they have proof that infinity exists ....mathematical models proving it to be so.

So if infinity is proven to exist ...then what you think is randomness, is really a creation of infinity for it to explore.

And if that's so, then infinity has created a set of "randomnesses" that, themselves were designed just for the sake of infinity being able to explore them, to be them, so they can be part of infinity's characteristics.

Wrap your head around that for a few days using your logic and reason and you will find intelligence and design behind it all.

Yes by nature, if randomness is to be true and real, as mathematical models prove and as inifinity would have to be a part of, then technically it itself would be wholly random.

But still randomness is a creation, came from somewhere, made by something, its the result of something. It leads back to a intelligence source.

"Cherry-picking the rare example of pattern and then claiming baselessly that that pattern "proves" something is absurd."

Hardly rare. I just proved above that randomness is a pattern. Everything is a pattern. Even something that is no pattern ....is still a pattern of having no pattern-ness to it.

I would even go so far as to bet you bank$$$ that this whole theory I just laid out before your eyes, that to me proves intelligent design, can be proven all mathematically with equations and calculators and college professors.

God can be proven mathematically, but somebody seeing the equations would only see equations ...they wouldnt be able to grasp their head around God ....just like we can't grasp our heads around infinity ...and yet we see the symbol all the time, especially in traffic .....when we see the symbol on the back of an infinity model car ....unaware that infinity is self-aware, intelligent, alive, breathing, being.

So you think our existence is all randomness and out of randomness came evolution??? That should show you right there that randomness itself is intelligent enough to allow it to bring forth a set of evolutions to continue to exist.

If you just set up a system of pure randomness, without intelligence, without awareness, without anything ...then it will always be randomness and will never change from that state.

But if you add to that intelligence, awareness, direction ...then you will inevitably get some form of evolution to spring up out of it.

That's why our existence has intelligence and design in it. If it didn't, there would be only randomness. We wouldnt be here, we wouldnt have evolution, we wouldnt have patterns, we wouldn't have design.

What I would agree with you with, is that there originally was only randomness in the beginning ....but then I would go off and say that its all directed by Infinity and Infinity is self aware, intelligent, and designed.

And for randomness to be true pure randomness(with out any set value), it would have to be random infinitely. And for randomness to be random infinitely would require the existence of infinity.

Infinity proves randomness/chaos and randomness/chaos proves infinity.

[edit on 7-4-2009 by dominicus]

So, I should just buy your propaganda "on faith"?

As I said, ID is a conspiracy to ram religion down our throats. Won't work if we keep thinking.