KT Challenge@Shanksville

reply to post by CameronFox

CF you are way off topic, you are not discussing the issues at Shanksville.
You are not going to get anywhere by attacking, and ridiculing, and tearing down my posts. Stay on the topic (KT Challenge@Shanksville)

reply to post by impressme


I have shown you the facts surrounding flight 93. You chose to ignore them and accuse the FBI of lying about "everything containing to 911".

You then stray off topic by posting about a shoot down. (Killtown's Video states that this is disinformation)

Why so little debris?

Idealizing the collision between aircraft and Earth
the Boeing (flight 93) has a mass of 100,000Kg
it is travelling at 255 meters per second
The trench and crater are 2-3 meters deep(call it 3m)

0.5 X 100,000 X 2552 / 3 = 1.1 X 109 Newtons

A Boeing 757 just sitting on a runway exerts about 1 X 106 Newtons
on the ground beneath it. Thus the force of the impact was approx 1000 times that due to gravity.

Flight 93 had the KE of 1484 pounds of TNT (estimate).

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by CameronFox
reply to post by LaBTop

 

i got the photo from Killtown.... I linked to the original.

Did you really found it on Killtowns site? That is nowhere to conclude in your original 2 posts regarding the subject.

Originally posted by CameronFox
reply to post by trueforger

 

Trueforger....here is the picture. As you can see, the "scar" was not there in 2001 and it does not line up with the scar from flight 93.

This is the text from the above last link, no credibility to Killtown given or to be found:
i121.photobucket.com/albums/o233/CameronFox/shanksville1994flight93wu1.jpg

You used it as if it was your picture. In the next post you give the original link to the USGS source:
terraserver-usa.com...

I found just this as the source :
""Image courtesy of the U.S. Geological Survey"".

In this second post by you, also no credibility given to Killtown.
And also NO red cube drawn in it, and no "FBI photo" inlay in it.

So you wanted to play it clever by giving that last answer, that you found that 1994 picture on Killtowns site?
You act evasive and as a typical con-man would.

You should read for starters, the "copyright & usage" link in every post, in the right bottom.

So, where is the position of the 2001 crater in that 1994 picture, and where in the 2001 FBI inlay.
If you can't answer that, then it shows what you are really after.

Originally posted by LaBTop

Did you really found it on Killtowns site? That is nowhere to conclude in your original 2 posts regarding the subject.

Didn't say it was from his "site". I found it on another forum. I apologize... he didn't post the picture... but he refutes it:

www.davidicke.com...

The '94 scar is not the same, however I do believe represents part of how the 9/11 crater was made. The 9/11 crater sat at the base of a slop where a drainage ditch could have easily formed:

- Killtown

You used it as if it was your picture. In the next post you give the original link to the USGS source:
terraserver-usa.com...

I found just this as the source :
""Image courtesy of the U.S. Geological Survey"".

Yup .... your point? (besides me being a con man?)

You should read for starters, the "copyright & usage" link in every post, in the right bottom.

Take it to the mods.

So, where is the position of the 2001 crater in that 1994 picture, and where in the 2001 FBI inlay.
If you can't answer that, then it shows what you are really after.

I'm not the one that made the ridiculous claim that the scar was there from 1994. Now, instead of wasting bandwidth talking about a scar being in place 7 years prior to the attack. Explain the phone calls from flight 93.

Thank you.

[edit on 2-4-2009 by CameronFox]

CameronFox, you seem to evade my conclusion in my last post in that thread about Viola, so I'll show it again :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

By LaBTop:

A few observations:

This is a CONSPIRACY site.

I am basically talking to myself here, obviously there is no interaction going on at all.

I offer a few very compelling EYE-witness reports of a very low flying plane passing Lambertsville junction, which is 1.25 miles from the official flight 93 crash crater. It flew about 100 feet high, or 30 meters high.
However, the black box data given to the NTSB, place the same plane MUCH higher in the sky above that junction! About 1.25 KILOMETER high.

Conclusion: the black box data are FALSIFIED.
If so, we talk about a HUGE CONSPIRACY, but no one reacts, on this conspiracy board.....
Conclusion: this is not a conspiracy board at all, or no more.


I offer a few reports of scrapyard workers who report a plane flying upside down at 12 meter above their heads, then dive into the ground 300 meters further away.
If that's true, we would have seen a hundred meters long sliding scar in the ground, and not a small round mystery hole with two small side scars filled with essentially nothing, as reported by first responders (""only charcoal left"").
There was NO ROOM to ""nosedive into the ground under an angle of 40°"" as reported by the media and official sources.
At 12 meters high, the plane could have only slightly dip its nose, and it would have touched the ground already.

Conclusion: something stinks in the official Shanksville story, and it stinks like a cover-up.

So yes, I think those airphone calls were phony.
Clever computer generated voice-overs made from former phone taps of the ones indicated, or a total phony scheme.

reply to post by LaBTop

I agree with you on this one LaBTop I believe the phone calls were faked as well.
We may not have all the proof, but we know when we are being lied to by the FBI

Conclusion: something stinks in the official Shanksville story, and it stinks like a cover-up.

Agreed!

The FBI said they did not investigate the four planes that crashed on 911 no one did, for the first time in American history and we know that is a proven fact.






[edit on 2-4-2009 by impressme]

Originally posted by LaBTop


So yes, I think those airphone calls were phony.
Clever computer generated voice-overs made from former phone taps of the ones indicated, or a total phony scheme.

I am at a loss for words LaBTop. Wow... so here it is:

Government is planning on this massive conspiracy

They pick Flight 93 (randomly)

They obtain preliminary manifest

They put phone taps on each passengers phone

They learn about each one of the passengers and their families. (nick names, interests, past history...etc)

They "morph" these voices

They call family members of the passengers using what information they have obtained to carry on conversations with them.

Family believes they spoke to loved ones just prior to death...but they were talking to computers.

WOW ... that is amazing. I guess... when you can't explain it with fact...use a little science fiction.

The thing is... you are wrong. As you will see, the "perps" could not have know that many of these people that made calls, changed their plans at the last minute.

Jack Grandcolas, Lauren's husband: She actually had a publisher interested. It was a book to give women guidance on how they could learn new things in life that would bring them greater self-esteem, courage, and self-confidence.

Her husband, Jack, was still asleep when she called to leave a message just before 5 p.m. Calif. time:

Lauren Grandcolas message: Hey, I just want to let you know I’m on the 8:00 instead of the 9:20.

Jeremy Glick was a brand new father. His wife, Lyz, had taken their three-month-old baby, Emmy, to her parents’ home while he was away on business.

He was supposed to leave Monday night, but there were problems at the airport: He decided to wait ‘til Tuesday morning.

Lyz Glick, Jeremy's wife: His flight had been rerouted to Kennedy, he had said, and he didn’t feel like getting in to California at 3 a.m., so he figured he would go home and get a good night’s sleep and just catch the first one out.

Elsa Strong, Joseph DeLuca's sister: She said—“Hi, Else, this is Lin. I just wanted to tell you how much I love you.” And she said, “Please tell mom and dad how much I love them.” And then she got real calm and said, “Now my will is in my safe and my safe is in my closet. And this is the combination.” And she just told me the combination of her safe. And then she just said, “I don’t know if I’m ever gonna get a chance to tell you again in person how much I love you, but I’m really gonna miss you.” And she said goodbye.

All from here:

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Originally posted by impressme

I agree with you on this one LaBTop I believe the phone calls were faked as well.
We may not have all the proof, but we know when we are being lied to by the FBI

You don't have any.

The FBI said they did not investigate the four planes that crashed on 911 no one did, for the first time in American history and we know that is a proven fact.

That is NOT what they said. Why are you not telling the truth? You have been shown this time and time again. You incorrectly accuse me of character assassination, then you tell a whopper like this. Are you paying attention?








[edit on 2-4-2009 by CameronFox]

reply to post by CameronFox

The only thing I am ignoring, and hand waving is you CF
Please stay on topic.

I have shown you the facts surrounding flight 93. You chose to ignore them and accuse the FBI of lying about "everything containing to 911".

I think it is “you” who has forgotten ATS is a conspiracy site, and we are all entitle to our views, and opinions on this board. Don’t you agree CF. So stop the character assassinations

Originally posted by impressme

The only thing I am ignoring, and hand waving is you CF
Please stay on topic.

Yes, and I am presenting facts. Do the math.

I think it is “you” who has forgotten ATS is a conspiracy site, and we are all entitle to our views, and opinions on this board. Don’t you agree CF. So stop the character assassinations

I have not forgotten anything. As you can see, I have been a member here for some time. There is nothing wrong with opinions. You however, have stated things as "infact" when they have not been.

This is NOT character assassination. I am simply asking you to provide evidence for your facts. You have yet to provide it.

reply to post by CameronFox

The FBI said they did not investigate the four planes that crashed on 911 no one did, for the first time in American history and we know that is a proven fact
That is NOT what they said. Why are you not telling the truth? You have been shown this time and time again. You incorrectly accuse me of character assassination, then you tell a whopper like this. Are you paying attention?

F.B.I. Counsel: No Attempt Made By F.B.I. To Formally Identify 9/11 Plane Wreckage

pilotsfor911truth.org...

I believe it is you who is not paying attention and you have been shown this sources of information by me, time, and time again however, you never have commented on it and these are the facts, that you continue to hand wave and ignore.



[edit on 2-4-2009 by impressme]

www.abovetopsecret.com...

By LaBTop on 27/12/2008 :
But perhaps this plane followed exactly the planned scenario, which outcome was meant to boast as much patriotism in the younger part of the population, to be sure of new cannon fodder for the planned new wars.

The interviews with these two ladies, Viola and Susan McElwain made it totally clear that a lot of planning was involved at Lambertsville, you can't magically pull out a military drone out of your pocket and place it in the scene of that crash at will. That little white drone with van-like proportions had to be launched by an aerial vehicle, circling around there somewhere.
The C-130 is high on my list to be the mother-ship for this drone, and the virtual piloting would have been done from this plane too.

Too much coincidence involved, the same C-130 at the Pentagon crash site and at the Lambertsville crash site.


We massively don't believe in government provided fairytale anymore, and the puppeteers acknowledged that lately, by inserting a colored man as new president, and providing new hope for many citizens.
I'm afraid that hope will be false and useless.
They still have the reigns in their hands, but it's slipping.
Other global players don't take it anymore, and are yanking the wheels of history into other pathways.

Wait and see.
It's gonna be messy in the next year. Very, very much so.

This whole mess was planned decades long, so don't underestimate the utter finesse that was laid out in this whole operation, this one was on an even grander scale than the Manhattan Project to develop as the first nation on earth, an atomic weapon.
Three hundred thousand persons kept their mouths shut for many years, and even after the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs fell.

The USA is an economy totally based on a military viewpoint, and all those military people must obey orders, that's the whole crux of the thing, it is easy to keep a secret in military circles.

reply to post by CameronFox

ThrotYogart! I mean CF you are pushing your luck here, you are about to have your cover blown, so stop all this nonsense.

Could we Perhaps get back to the Topic now?

» 9/11 Conspiracies » KT Challenge@Shanksville » Post Reply

... as opposed to each other's character, person or individual self... (?)


Honestly,
Debate, Debunk, Discuss or Dispute the content of a fellow member's post(s)... NOT they themself.


Going foward, the Topic of discussion is...

» 9/11 Conspiracies » KT Challenge@Shanksville » Post Reply

post/reply

Originally posted by impressme

F.B.I. Counsel: No Attempt Made By F.B.I. To Formally Identify 9/11 Plane Wreckage

I believe it is you who is not paying attention and you have been shown this sources of information by me, time, and time again however, you never have commented on it and these are the facts, that you continue to hand wave and ignore.

Does this say that they did NOT INVESTIGATE??? No impressme... it does not. It is regarding the collection of SERIAL NUMBERS.

For you to claim there was NOT ANY INVESTIGATION AT ALL... it NOT TRUE.

Originally posted by LaBTop
This whole mess was planned decades long, .....

Some of the passengers that made calls to their loved ones... changed their plans at the last minute. Please explain how the government morphed their voices and carried on conversations with their families.

Thank you.

reply to post by CameronFox

Does this say that they did NOT INVESTIGATE??? No impressme... it does not. It is regarding the collection of SERIAL NUMBERS.

For you to claim there was NOT ANY INVESTIGATION AT ALL... it NOT TRUE.

Why has registry confirming information of the 9/11 aircraft been repeatedly withheld or omitted?
Do the recovered serially numbered components contained by the 9/11 aircraft match the FAA/airline aircraft records containing component serial number data for the allegedly involved federally registered aircraft? (No they do not!)
Incredible. No documentation. Not a single traceable part. Not one thing to prove these are the right airplanes.
either there is no evidence or if there is, the FBI couldn't be bothered to do a proper investigation.
The worst Airline Disaster in History and neither the FBI, NTSB or Boeing ever investigated the crashes and what actually happened to the planes. Just like the folks at NIST, who refuse to look below the impact zone floors to find out what caused to the collapses or if explosives were used. What an amazing amount of trust all of these agencies have in the official story, that everything was so obvious, that there was no need to question or prove anything.
Might it be useful to keep hammering on the fact, that the moment the flying objects (whatever they were) crashed, they ceased being planes or missiles and they became transformed into "murder weapons?"
It is a tougher sell to refuse to identify murder weapons than to refuse to identify airplane parts.

Did you read those two pages from the Viola thread, and the implication this has for " Killtowns challenge@Shanksville "?

The plane was flying idiot low, 30 meter above Viola's house, then over the scrapyard at 12 meter high, to crash 300 meter further.
That's a trajectory of 1.25 last miles in total.

The officially released NTSB data show totally different heights at those two points.

There were multiple witnesses near Viola's house who saw the plane flying at the same height of 30 meter, while the NTSB puts it at more than a kilometer high above her house.

And multiple witnesses at the scrapyard 300 meter from impact.
But they reported no dive bombing plane falling out the sky at a 40 ° angle, they saw it coming from the direction of Viola's house, for about 12 seconds, flying as low as 12 meter high over the scrapyard.
And then nose down.

FROM TWELVE METER HIGH.

reply to post by LaBTop



Should I ask you yet again to explain to me how the government staged the phone calls?

Thank you.

-CF

Originally posted by impressme

Why has registry confirming information of the 9/11 aircraft been repeatedly withheld or omitted?
..........identify murder weapons than to refuse to identify airplane parts.

Why did you cut and paste this from 911 Blogger?

We have all read Aiden's blogs many times. I have conceded that the serial numbers were not recorded.

LaBTop over here is saying the wire tapped the passengers and faked phone calls.... yet this decade long planning... they forgot to fake a few numbers?

Really... think about it.