Obama Apologizes to Special Olympics for Bowling Joke

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
reply to post by Swatman

 

My point summed up perfectly. ^^

That's twice now a member has complained that it was offensive and then made an offensive joke.

Either it is all okay, or none of it is.

good im glad. if people want to play the double standard game, ill play it right back. i made that joke on jay leno last night

you obviously seem to think there is something funny or racist about an african american eating fried chicken but not a fool calling himself retarded for bowling a 129

[edit on 21-3-2009 by Swatman]

Originally posted by TruthParadox
That's exactly my point. It isn't about what he said or how 'offensive' it was, it's about who he is.
This is about politics.
Again, what matters is the intent.
Was he intentionally showing some sort of hatred for disabled people?
Of course not.
He was insulting his own bowling abilities.

As I said earlier:

"I already said in that post I respected obama's apology and I have no doubt he is sorry"

..and insulting his own bowling abilities by comparing then to special olympians. It's pretty obvious how this insults disabled people. Let me explain again:

because his bowling is that bad! Get it?

Originally posted by riley
From most of what I've seen on this very thread many people have alot of contempt for people with disabilities.

I'd say you're probably imagining that.
I haven't seen any contempt for disabled people.

Using the word "retard" is enough.. did you count them or just decide they weren't really offensive by YOUR standards? even finding the joke funny requires at least some level of contempt for disabled people. I am not imagining anything as the insults are not that subtle.

Saying someone is retarded isn't an insult unless you mean it as an insult.
Intent is everything.
A family member of mine is retarded, and I'm not being mean by saying that, it's just a fact.

Retarded is a word thats used to be used by professionals.. the term "retard" is never anything but an insult or a degredation and it has NEVER been used as a formal term.

The difference is
"a person with a retardation"
or "a retard"

Calling them a retard defines them by that label.. suddenly they are no longer a person but a retardation personafied. (I can't believe I have to walk people through WHY this word is so offensive..:shk: )

People like you are afraid of stating facts.

honestly thats the first time I've ever had someone say that to me.. in fact I think I'm right on the mark on this issue.

Now we say "mentally handicapped". In the future, people will use THAT as an insult,

In the future perhaps biggotry will be a thing of the past.

and so you won't even be able to call someone mentally handicapped without feeling guilty. What will the next word be?

It's BS.

I'm wondering.. are you alright with racial slurs then? People don't use ex. the n word anymore and it hasn't just been replaced by something else so thats a non argument.

[edit on 21-3-2009 by riley]

reply to post by Swatman


No, see, I don't mind either of them. I just know that someone will be offended either way - that's how jokes work. If you can laugh at one, then you need to learn to laugh at them all.

You are the double standard - not me. I don't mind anything but the partisan garbage you flagrantly prance around and put on display.

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
reply to post by Swatman

 

No, see, I don't mind either of them. I just know that someone will be offended either way - that's how jokes work. If you can laugh at one, then you need to learn to laugh at them all.

You are the double standard - not me. I don't mind anything but the partisan garbage you flagrantly prance around and put on display.

im not partisan, im fair.
show bush making idiotic speeches, show Obama equally im happy

reply to post by Swatman


There's nothing insulting unless you mean it to be insulting...
Jesus H Christ...

The one thing that separates Obama's remark from being mean or just a silly mistake is intent.
I seriously doubt that it was his intent to offend people - no politician would do that.
So then what is it?
A silly mistake.

And do you hold a grudge against someone for making a silly mistake?

People these days look for the black or the white and miss everything in between...

Obama is not 'evil' nor is he 'good', he's human.
Humans make mistakes.

reply to post by Swatman


That wasn't idiotic, it was a joke, just like the racial-based joke you just made. Bush's faux pas were based off of ignorance:

"Fool me once shame on you... fool me twice... uh.. we won't get fooled again".

Obama didn't have a mental lapse, he just told a joke that maybe he shouldn't have, maybe he should have. I don't know, it's trivial.

If he crossed the line, the people who ARE TRULY offended will do enough. We don't need people like you trying to get revenge because they are partisan hacks.

You realize you just admitted that this was entirely about Bush, and then tried to say it wasn't partisan, right?

My final thoughts on this silly topic.

1. The Tonight Show is "Taped" (Recorded to videotape.) It is NOT a "live" telecast.
After each taping, the shows are edited (usually in a minor way) formatted to allow commercial breaks and overall program length and to "pull-up", "tighten" or "clean up" any flubs. Do you all honestly think that "The Most Powerful Man in the World" couldn't have pulled a few strings and have the remark deleted? (Especially since many of you believe he is handled with "kid-gloves" by MSM.)

2. Gov, Arnold has forgiven him:

www.760kfmb.com...

3. The only people who should be truly offended by his remarks would be those with disabilities. I, for one, was not.

4. Funny how so many ATS'ers have suddenly become "Etiquette Experts" and joined the "Proper Police."

Continue your bashing if it helps you in some way, but I am gonna sit this this one out.

Regards......KK

[edit on 21-3-2009 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by Swatman


woh now. imagine if Bush said that????

I am...

He wouldn't have apologized...

Originally posted by riley
"I already said in that post I respected obama's apology and I have no doubt he is sorry"

..and insulting his own bowling abilities by comparing then to special olympians. It's pretty obvious how this insults disabled people. Let me explain again:

because his bowling is that bad! Get it?

Of course.
But who was he meaning to insult?
Himself.
Again, intent is everything.

Originally posted by riley
Using the word "retard" is enough.. did you count them or just decide they weren't really offensive by YOUR standards? even finding the joke funny requires at least some level of contempt for disabled people. I am not imagining anything as the insults are not that subtle.

Words mean nothing, intent means everything.
How is it you don't get that?

Originally posted by riley
Calling them a retard defines them by that label.. suddenly they are no longer a person but a retardation personafied. (I can't believe I have to walk people through WHY this word is so offensive..:shk: )

I agree that particular word is seen in our society as offensive.
But saying someone is retarded does not have to be offensive.
Again, the word means nothing, the intent means everything.

Originally posted by riley

Now we say "mentally handicapped". In the future, people will use THAT as an insult,

In the future perhaps biggotry will be a thing of the past.

Perhaps.

Originally posted by riley
I'm wondering.. are you alright with racial slurs then? People don't use ex. the n word anymore and it hasn't just been replaced by something else so thats a non argument.

This isn't about the 'n' word, 'r' word, 'a', 'b', 'c', or 'd' word...
This is about if you say those words in an offensive manner.
The 'n' word is used by some blacks and whites in a non-offensive manner.
Again, intent is everything.


Anyway, back to my main argument and 'beef' with this which is that this is about politics. You said above that the reason this is such a big deal is because Obama is a politician who is not supposed to be offensive.

This proves my point.
People aren't as much offended by the statement as they are making this about politics.

reply to post by riley

Originally posted by riley
Calling them a retard defines them by that label.. suddenly they are no longer a person but a retardation personafied. (I can't believe I have to walk people through WHY this word is so offensive.. ) :shk:

Star for you, riley. I think that calling someone a retard is one of the most degrading things you can call a challenged person. There doesn't need to be any analysis of "why" it's degrading; it just is.

I can honestly say that none of the people I know and respect have ever used that term.

reply to post by jsobecky


Well if that's the case, half the people on this forum complaining about Obama's comment being offensive have been far more careless and offensive.

You, jsobecky, I know you. And I know you have a level head, and I know that you can admit that MOST of this is just a partisan show. Yes, some were offended, but those aren't the ones on this forum, on the news, and making waves about the comment.

Originally posted by Irish M1ckYes, some were offended, but those aren't the ones on this forum, on the news, and making waves about the comment.

So you are saying I was not really offended? If you are going to make claims or accuse follow through with them and don't just insinuate.

*edited to quote

[edit on 21-3-2009 by riley]

Originally posted by jsobecky
Star for you, riley. I think that calling someone a retard is one of the most degrading things you can call a challenged person. There doesn't need to be any analysis of "why" it's degrading; it just is.

I can honestly say that none of the people I know and respect have ever used that term.

I feel like I'm being asked to give extra justification as to why they should be defended like just being human isn't reason enough.

I'm glad to know others here understand what I'm talking about.

[edit on 21-3-2009 by riley]

reply to post by riley


You may have been... I clearly said that it was just many on this thread, not all.

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
half the people on this forum complaining about Obama's comment being offensive have been far more careless and offensive.

Those are the people I'm talking about. You may have been offended, and that's fine. You have a right to that. Just know, if you are offended by Obama's comment, then you need to objection to all comments of the like.

That means 90% of the stuff on Comedy Central, pretty much any stand-up comedian, etc. If one thing is offensive, all of them need to be.

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
reply to post by riley

 

You may have been... I clearly said that it was just many on this thread, not all.

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
half the people on this forum complaining about Obama's comment being offensive have been far more careless and offensive.

yet you said this in your last post:

some were offended, but those aren't the ones on this forum,

Last I checked I'm on this forum.

Those are the people I'm talking about. You may have been offended, and that's fine.

Correction.. I WAS offended.. I have said this several times now so it should be apparent. Your saying "may have been" implies there is a level of uncertainty which means you think I might be full of it. If you are going to accuse people of lieing at least have guts enough to be direct about it.

That means 90% of the stuff on Comedy Central, pretty much any stand-up comedian, etc. If one thing is offensive, all of them need to be.

That argument has been used repetively.

AGAIN

He is not a stand up comic and those comedians are not the President of the United States of America so to try make comparisons between his behaviour and theirs is ludicrous.

[edit on 21-3-2009 by riley]

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
Just know, if you are offended by Obama's comment, then you need to objection to all comments of the like.

That means 90% of the stuff on Comedy Central, pretty much any stand-up comedian, etc. If one thing is offensive, all of them need to be.

Exactly.
Except it's not the offensive part that matters.
What matters is that Obama made a mistake and is therefor evil - proving conservatives to be right all along!
Politics.
Gotta love it

reply to post by riley


First of all, spare me the drama. In reality, it doesn't matter all the much to me if you were offended by that comment. I mean, honestly, if that offends you, you're going to have a tough life.

Second, it doesn't matter if he is a stand up comedian. What is that title? It basically means, "professional funny person". That doesn't mean the rest of us can't be funny and tell jokes.

Don't push your feelings and oversensitivity on the rest of us, thanks.

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
First of all, spare me the drama. In reality, it doesn't matter all the much to me if you were offended by that comment. I mean, honestly, if that offends you, you're going to have a tough life.

there you go again with "if".

Why can't you just accept the fact that people on ATS found it genuinely offensive? you can't do that because your whole thing is "people are only pretending to be offended because they're partisan." If you admit they've got real reason you can't paint him to be a victim of PC over sensitivity.

[edit on 21-3-2009 by riley]

Obama never ceases to amaze me.

What is even more entertaining/frightening is how his followers are silent, even when Obama belittles the severely disabled.