is the trinity a biblical doctrine?

I posted this in another thread, because it is 1976 years today since Christ gave his life for humanity and ransomed it BY ACTUALLY DYING, this also denies the Trinity

Mark 15 verses 33-39

33And when the sixth hour (about midday) had come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour (about three o'clock).
34And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?--which means, My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me [deserting Me and leaving Me helpless and abandoned]?
35And some of those standing by, [and] hearing it, said, See! He is calling Elijah!
36And one man ran, and, filling a sponge with vinegar (a mixture of sour wine and water), put it on a staff made of a [bamboo-like] reed and gave it to Him to drink, saying, Hold off! Let us see whether Elijah [does] come to take Him down.
37And Jesus uttered a loud cry, and breathed out His life.
38And the curtain [of the Holy of Holies] of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.
39And when the centurion who stood facing Him saw Him expire this way, he said, Really, this Man was God's Son!

Why would Jesus say "My God, My God" just before he died, the pointlessness of such an emotional plee just before death if they are one would be profound. And please, please don't say oh he was just doing that for the benefit of people around him, because that means you think he was just putting on an act, an academy award performance at that.
Jesus Christ was not an actor, that would cheapen his sacrifice terribly, it means you think he was faking it. When his emotional state was real. He actually died from stress cardiomyopathy but known colloquially as “broken heart” syndrome.

Even a Roman Pagan new the truth of this matter, that's how clear it was, to anybody that was there seeing all the events unfold.

[edit on 9-4-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

reply to post by holywar

is the trinity a biblical doctrine?

Absolutely not !

The Catholics 'blatantly stole' the notion from the Indian Vedantists.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


I've come to the realization that some thick-headed people cannot research with open minds. They are taught one way their whole lives and never leave the box they were forced to be in. I was raised up baptist but when I started reading the bible and studying different things about christianity, especially christian history, my eyes were opened to the great conspiracy known as roman catholicism which includes all splinter groups from the protestant reformation. Jesus said to live by every word of God, but how many people still worship on sunday instead of the commanded 7th day (saturday)? How many people celebrated Passover tuesday or wednesday nights? I did. I'm currently on a yeast-free diet for 7 days during this feast which symbolizes the need and want to keep sin out of my home and life. There are lessons and meaning to God's Holy Days whereas easter gives a false time of Jesus' resurrection along with a fun little pagan tradition with easter egg hunts. I just look back and wonder how people can be so blind when the truth is right there in the pages of the bible, most of which are probably dusty and on a shelf with no human contact for decades. I know this because my parents are that way. They probably wouldn't know an alternate version of the King James Bible if it hit them in the face! But the pages of the bible easily explain the crucifixion happening on Passover. 31 AD is the year I place the death of Jesus on Passover which would have been a wednesday. He was in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights or 72 hours, just as He said He would be. During this time of 3 days and 3 nights, there were 2 different sabbaths taking place.... the first day of Unleavened bread after Passover, and the 7th day weekly sabbath on saturday. Jesus was buried before sunset on Passover. This same day, the women who followed Christ were preparing spices and oils for the embalming of the Body of Christ. They had to buy the supplies before the Yearly Sabbath of Unleavened bread started at sundown. They couldn't do work on sabbaths, so day 1 was spent honoring the sabbath. The 2nd day was spent prepping for the embalment as they decided to wait until the weekly sabbath passed before visiting the grave. Finally the sabbath came on the thrid day. Think about it.... Burried wednesday evening before sunset. thursday evening makes one day. Friday evening makes 2 days. Saturday evening, just before sunset makes 3 days and 3 nights. How do you get 3 days and 3 nights from "good friday" evening to "easter sunday" morning? That's 1 full day and night with 1 partial day. About 36 hours or less! I'm sorry if this is a little off-subject but it is the season of Passover and easter at the same times this year and I get annoyed at people trying to defend the whole easter story vs. the Passover account. maybe I should just start a new thread about the whole sabbath vs. easter sunday resurrection story.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33



Simple

he was not talking to God he was quoting scripture/Prophecy

Psalm22:1 KJV

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?


take note of

Psalm 22:16 KJV

For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

Psalm 22:18 KJV

They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.



Jesus was giving reference to prophecy. even before the last moment he was giving the people a chance to accept him

Originally posted by drevill
reply to post by Blue_Jay33

 

Simple

he was not talking to God he was quoting scripture/Prophecy

Psalm22:1 KJV

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

yea, except he didnt do too good of a job pronouncing it, the people thought he was calling out to elias

matt 27:[47] Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.
[48] And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
[49] The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.

so god puts on a show, quoting something that doesnt need to be quoted, from a prophecy that didnt need to be prophesied so that people could put faith in him, and instead they didnt hear him correctly.

lol

if god came to earth, why do you think he would inspire that psalm in the first place? why would he inspire someone to write something that fundamentally isnt true?

and yes it wouldnt be true because if jesus was god, then god cant foresake him. in fact your whole argument hinges on the fact that you believe that (jesus cannot be foresaken by god) this why you are bringing up the quote in the first place.

but the quote itself would be a lie. so now, its a lie that is inspired by god.



[edit on 11-4-2009 by miriam0566]

If you go back to verse 45, you read, "Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour." Since Jesus was so concerned about others and was not in the habit of complaining on his own behalf, Jesus could very well have not been talking about himself. Remember this was from Psalms and was written to be performed as a musical. This would have been, to use Miriam's term, a show, out of concern for the apparent displeasure of God against Jerusalem in particular and Judea in general, evidenced by the darkness that had settled on the entire area, during these three hours.
So, "the act" was the intercession of himself to God, on behalf of the people, who deservedly were being punished by God.


[edit on 11-4-2009 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by holywar

reply to post by drevill


Ok, lets's just go with that, and the reason he couldn't be doing both at the same time is???

Oh right, we need to understand it the other way so he stays as a trinity.

Pathetic!

reply to post by drevill


He wasn't talking to God you say? He was quoting scripture, that's for sure but in doing so, He fulfilled prophecy due to the fact that this psalm was a prophecy. He was talking to God. He sure wasn't talking to Himself and He wasn't talking just to waist His last few breaths.... He didn't even live again for 3 days and 3 nights. Most trinitarians believe that Jesus' spirit left His body once His physical body died but this would contradict His very words for the sign of His massiahship. Just as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the fish, so shall the Son of Man be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth. This means, He literally died and was dead for 72 hours and then resurrected on the 3rd day. God resurrected Jesus. He didn't resurrect Himself. In acts, Jesus didn't pour Himself out on the church. God didn't die on the cross because God can't die. A human died and came back to life to be with His Father to carry out the final Judgement on Earth.

Blue My God My God is in the second or 21 st Psalm, what he was doing bluejay was going over the Psalm to signify that the saints would have to go through the dark night of the soul before they reach God.

where God abandons them, but as we see in phillipians, a verse people keep ignoring.

He was equal to God. He came (as) a servant.

but is God in the flesh, the word made flesh.


This is absolutly pointless arguing this. If you read scripture closely Jesus and the apostles clearly call him God.



and he said baptise in 3 peoples names, not 1 or 2.



The Catholics 'blatantly stole' the notion from the Indian Vedantists



No they didn't, they stole it from God and the OT prophecies, and satan who created those religions used that as a snare to trick people, the proof is though that Gods church has spread throughout the world and those have not.

peace.

[edit on 13-4-2009 by JesusisTruth]

reply to post by JesusisTruth

This is absolutly pointless arguing this.

I agree, the trinity is a false doctrine, and scriptures that seem to support it are being twisted to do so, and are not in harmony with what the bible really teaches on this subject.

I am happy that truth of this matter will one day be known to all.



[edit on 13-4-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
This is absolutly pointless arguing this. If you read scripture closely Jesus and the apostles clearly call him God.

you keep saying this, yet the scriptures plainly disagree

Originally posted by JesusisTruth


No they didn't, they stole it from God and the OT prophecies, and satan who created those religions used that as a snare to trick people, the proof is though that Gods church has spread throughout the world and those have not.

Jesus called His Church a "little flock" and not something spread throughout the world. False religion like catholicism is what spread across the world to blind the majority. What I find funny is that people of these "false religions" go out of their way and use twisting of scripture or 1 verse out of the entire bible like Peter being the rock to make their religion "right".

reply to post by JesusisTruth


here is a book you may want to read, (limited view):

The Tyranny of the Trinity

OK, last night my friend said I was better than God. Now does that MAke me better than God or do we know she said that? Now how about Luke. Just because he made a writing survive through hundreds and even thousands of years, what does that make him? If we wrote schoolbooks the way the bible is written, and it's easy, we would have about two or four schools all over the world and everyone would have to do yoga seven times a day. Comeon, lets look through whatever they left us with and try to figure out the truth, it can't be that difficult? Could it?

reply to post by jmdewey60


Is it at all possible that this counterfeit Trinity is represented also by the Lord God of Gen:2, a dark and vengeful Jealous god who created his own man followed by woman much later being the sons of man Gen 2:4 "...in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens..." (note; opposite to Gen 1:1; heavens and the earth) Gen 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground"...then heaps later made a helper ie: woman compared to

God of Genesis 1:26-27 God said "Let Us make man in Our image...in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and feamle He created them". at the same time, therefore being the sons of God.

also note diffences in Noah's story

Genesis 6:13-22, God said to Noah build the ark, and "two of every sort...male and female..two of everykind will come..."

Genesis 7 the Lord said to Noah, You will take "...seven of every clean animal...two each of animals that are unclean, a male and his female..."

Note the Lords command identifies the male and his female detailing the authority of male over female whereas Gods command shows equality within the sexes.

Just wondering?

No. I do not mean there is an actual trinity out there who happens to be deceitful, or something.
What I meant is that there are deceitful men out there who make up their own version of God through nothing but philosophy.
The true God is represented in the Bible. If we do not have a firm grip on what the Bible is really saying, that is understandable. It was written a long time ago in a language that is in certain ways, impossible to interpret.
That is one thing. Quite another thing is to take the parts that should be understandable, and create something that is the opposite. It looks almost like it was planned to come out that way. Just like someone taking a cross and turning it upside down, as if to say, "I defy you to your face in the most blatant way and just try to stop me!".
Baal worship was in direct opposition to what the Old Testament writers thought of God. It is this idea that the original creator God lost interest in His creation, and went off to pursue other interests. Fortunately, somewhere in the process, God had a Son who took it upon himself to fill in and proclaim himself as God to the inhabitants of creation, knowing God would never show up to expose the falsehood in his self representation.
This seems to be a recurring theme for some reason, throughout human history. Of course it is wrong and the real God did what he could through His true believers to rectify the misunderstanding.
So, you end up with a clear division between the different camps of clergy. The priests of Baal and the priests of the almighty God. The Assyrians laughed at the King of Judea and said, "Where is your almighty God now, and how can He save you from our attack?". What does that mean? Was the Assyrian saying that he did not believe in the Almighty God? No, he meant that there is an almighty God but He is just too almighty to bother with helping them out. If you would just believe in the one-step-down-from-Almighty God, you can get your help because he is not too preoccupied to get involved in geopolitics.
Now we have, in modern times, the exact same situation. The camp of the lower usurper God who is willing to get into some seriously dirty deeds; and the camp of the followers of a truly righteous and all powerful God. A god who created everything, not just someone who came along later and took over the creation he found, and decided to support the ones who were bloodthirsty enough to enforce the belief in him over all humanity.
So, you have someone on one side who says we believe in this here God but with some necessary caveats and disclaimers, meaning he is not really THE God but A God and you should not let that bother you, especially when you consider the fact that if you refuse to join us, we will persecute you to the fullest extent that we can gain power to carry out.
On the other side you have someone saying we have A God who happens to also be THE God and if someone does not like it, then we are willing to be persecuted for the sake of the name of that God, who made us and can raise us back to life, if necessary.


[edit on 25-4-2009 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by miriam0566


no he did not make a mistake

you forget that today we are arguing points of the Bible, you are also assuming that everyone was Godly etc.

david

reply to post by Locoman8


hello there

i agree about the little flock, however Jesus was talking with his disciples at the time, so you can use that. however he does say narrow is the way and only a few will enter.

My own opinion is that Satan is always working within the belivers to form this offshoot and that offshoot, watering the word etc etc etc.

there will always be wolves adding to the sheeps numbers.

God resurrected Jesus. He didn't resurrect Himself.

hello there cani have a scriptural reference to back that up please?

It was clear he was quoting Prophecy and for anyone that new their scripture it would have been a sign.

as for Jonah

you say he wasn't dead because Jonah wasnt?

with respect, it was an example of a return. and that whilst all seemed lost but as it was Gods will, he was't. It was a miracle for the people of that time.

Luke 11:30

for as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.

Luke 11:32

The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here

Jonah 2:2

And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

Jonah 2:6

I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

Jonah was a prophet, but the sign was that the writings of Jonah was not just a story of his trials and trouble but chapter 2 was Prophecy, and a shadow of the things Christ would have to do.


[edit on 26-4-2009 by drevill]