Soldiers pledge to refuse disarmament demands

Originally posted by Common Good
reply to post by riggs2099

 

not too light on your feet I take it?
what happened? Pick a fight with the wrong Marine? haha

sorry, you set me up for that one.

Wish I could tell you it was that or some big incident to make myself look good. But the fact is..Training...some big oaf fell on my leg
and broke my ankle...now I have pins in my ankle....

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
What illegal orders, actions and laws are you talking about?
Not heard of one gun being taken out of anyone's hands in the past 60 days.

A gun is not going to protect you from an economic collapse and loss of a job, by the way. It isn't going to allow you to vote more. And if people cannot be more informed -- they certainly won't know who is messing up their lives.

What is someone with a gun going to do when they no longer own their own home or have a job? The fascists already stole all your money -- you just don't know it yet. They will be doing nothing but sabotaging any Liberal efforts to stem the hemorrhaging just like a certain fascist group did about 60 years ago to the Weimar Republic.

Thank you, thank you for drawing that parallel! What's scary is that it does so closely relate to pre WW2 Germany and nobody here that's rattling their sabers seems to realize that we are falling for the same trap.

Germany under the Republic was in a horrible depression due to the first war (although the situation in Germany at the time was FAR worse than anything we're facing right now, no one is eating their pets and cooking zoo animals like the Germans were), just like the US economy deflated under Bush and Obama (he was a Senator at the time, after all). People have lost their savings, retirements, homes, etc. They feel emasculated and threatened by a financial ruin they can't quite grasp because of its complexity - which makes people even more frustrated and angry at the government and institutions that caused it.

Instead of the German army there's the US army, instead of Jews and Communists it's liberals and socialists. Hitler was able to grab his power by entrancing the army and feeding into their fears that the boogeymen were going to destroy them. The only solution? The final solution. How many of you feel cheated by your governments actions and our current situation? After all, you didn't cause the economic fall, you don't deserve the cost of the bailouts...the government forced you into accepting them! This is exactly what happened to Germany. Hitler thought the same way about his leadership after the war and later termed it "The Stab in the Back". And now, just like the Treaty of Versailles, many Americans feel that we were cheated into accepting the bulk of the responsibility for this economic mess (no one was able to even read the second bailout, and there's NO oversight in where our money went in the first one!).

Now we have the fear that Obama - a man the same people say isn't even legally American/fit to be President - is going to take away our means of defense, and cue in the Oath Keepers to sow more foundations of discord and mistrust to fracture the military under the guise of patriotism. I mean really, they're called the Oath Keepers for the love of God, does that name not reek of a fascist ideology? The only thing this current situation lacks is a modern Hitler to unite the disaffected and begin the rise of a fourth reich; to tell all the patriotic Oath Keepers and angry citizens who their enemy is that needs to be subdued.

All these things are doing to you and those around you who agree, are grooming you and brainwashing you with propaganda. Whether it is by the random acts of circumstance or some more sinister design, you are playing into their hands.

This is the best part of the article:

He said the accumulation of power in the executive branch in recent years has been alarming. The fears crystallized when Obama took office and suddenly had access to the accumulated power.

That, he said, is a "powderkeg."

Did anyone read the actual points? Bush violated at least 4 of their 'points', but Obama is the man to fear? Rhodes' agenda is obvious and dangerous.

Obama is the Weimar Republic...and this organization is playing with a powderkeg, but it's NOT his access to Executive powers.

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
Bush violated at least 4 of their 'points', but Obama is the man to fear? Rhodes' agenda is obvious and dangerous.

Oath Keepers is non-partisan and Stewart Rhodes is an independent Ron Paul supporter who's appalled at the Bush administration's shredding of the Constitution and diminished civil liberties.

This is his only agenda:

Spokesman Stewart Rhodes of Oath Keepers told WND his organization's goal is to remind military members their oath of allegiance is to the U.S. Constitution, not a particular president.

As honorable as his intentions may be, his is wrong, we do have to swear an oath to not only the constitution, but the President of the United States as well. We swear to both, not one or the other. EVERY enlisted member of any military service swears an oath to both. Yes Officers are different, but at least in the Marine Corps, Officers make up just over 10%.

reply to post by Avenginggecko


Your right it is not as bad as the Weimar Republic yet, but they are
working on that.

Warren Buffet's story about derivatives ballooning past 500 Trillion with a " T "

The Weimar days are not too far away once that moutain of derivatives
is allowed to unwind, and the true size of the theft is revealed.

I used Tiny URL because ATS often has issues with URL's with certain
characters in it.

Good Luck to you all !

Originally posted by stinger94
As honorable as his intentions may be, his is wrong, we do have to swear an oath to not only the constitution, but the President of the United States as well. We swear to both, not one or the other. EVERY enlisted member of any military service swears an oath to both. Yes Officers are different, but at least in the Marine Corps, Officers make up just over 10%.

So what happens if the president gives you an illegal order?
As an extreme example to make a point, let's say the president asks you to kill a school full of children who are learning to read and write and nothing more?

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
Bush violated at least 4 of their 'points', but Obama is the man to fear? Rhodes' agenda is obvious and dangerous.

Oath Keepers is non-partisan and Stewart Rhodes is an independent Ron Paul supporter who's appalled at the Bush administration's shredding of the Constitution and diminished civil liberties.

This is his only agenda:

Spokesman Stewart Rhodes of Oath Keepers told WND his organization's goal is to remind military members their oath of allegiance is to the U.S. Constitution, not a particular president.

It's completely clear from the article that his agenda is to undermine Obama. I pointed out that Bush violated 4 of these supposed points; however, Rhodes didn't feel the need to begin the Oath Keepers until Obama became president. Even though their MO doesn't state opposition against Obama, it is quite implicit that he is the reason why Rhodes does it.

Like I said, I don't know if this is a broader conspiracy or just circumstance playing out, but these ridiculous Oath Keepers and everyone here crying for blood are completely playing into the hands of fascism.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
Now as far as an "Illegal War", since when have you ever been able to judge a Nation's reason for going to War? If a Nation sees it within their scope to take any and all actions necessary in order to secure their future, then by God they have a right to engage in such activities.

Except it wasn't "a Nation" that decided to invade and occupy Iraq.

It was a bunch of treasonous, murderous PNAC neocons like Cheney, Wolfowitz, Abrams, Perle, etc.

As 19th century robber baron Jay Gould said, "I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half."

We are surrounded by children armed with guns.

That our country has people who have this "git er done" mentality,... they don't seem to realize, that the only thing separating us from those we invade is we have more weapons. We USED to have, some sort of moral standing.

The only rationale of these frightened kids is that "they would do worse." Well, maybe they got a few nuts like we do. But when you let your lesser instincts and lesser people rule, you never set an example. George Bush justified every paranoid delusion of al Qaeda (whatever that group is, beyond a joint venture between Saudi Arabia and the CIA -- I can't tell you). But regardless, it's a lot easier to find people will to die for a cause and blow themselves up, if you are planning to drop bombs on them and their family anyway.

Do you guys realize that you are the subjects of the plots of a half million books or so?
Guess which side you're on?

I'm reading one right now..
Die Trying by Lee Child, half of you would fit right in.

I am continually amazed by you guys, for how many years now have you said the US government :

1. Is a Sham
2. Is NWO controlled
3. Wants to gas us
4. Wants to control us (as slave labor)

And that is is currently:

1. Gearing up for war against citizens
2. Making lists to round "us all up"
3. Creating concentration camps
4. Taking your guns away


How many years will you say the same thing over and over and over?
Does anyone ever wake up from this delusion?

You're just as bad as the 2012 crowd or the End of Days crowd, constantly moving back the dates and times of the coming [insert natural disaster/government takeover/alien landing/end of the earth here]

If it doesn't happen when we say, it'll happen the next time we say...

Do you all brainwash your kids from day one with this stuff? (how sad)
No proof, all speculation, disillusionment, hatred and distrust?
What kind of life you must lead....


I'd be willing to bet the two words you say most often are.. "I know...."


Yea, yea.. I know ... no need to say it... hold your breath

I'M the sheep, I'M the idiot living day to day not knowing whats REALLY coming, oblivious to the CAMP they are going to throw me into, oblivious to the .. BLAH BLAH BLAH, BLAH ...BLAH

I'm just another ignorant sheep having friends over and partying on a saturday night, watching baseball on a lazy spring sunday and taking my kids to their soccer practice during the week, all without a care in the world about the coming government takeover and my incarceation into the labor camps of the NWO.

I'll tell you this, if there is one in a godzillion chance that our government could pull off even one hundreth of the things you all accuse it of, then I'd rather be enjoying my life right now in the real world than freaking out on an online forum doing absolutley nothing but whining about it.

Deny ignorance,.. if only.

More on topic, I wonder "who" actually filled out the "poll"?
What soldier/policeman is actually going to read this junk and think:

1. Wow they'd actually order me to do that?
2. I'd better sign up right now and say NO!

Seriously?

reply to post by stinger94


Granted you swore an oath to both the constitution and the president.

The question is IF you ever recieved orders that came from the president to disarm the American public, what would you do ?

Which do you feel more loyal to, the president, or the constitution that you are supposed to uphold and the freedoms that you are supposed to protect ?

After all if the president were to give such an order he would in fact be going against the constitution, and imo would then be an enemy.

It blows my mind how something like a government take over can bring on such paranoia. It's NOT going to happen...simply put:

American Population over age 18: 248,000,000

United States Military personel: 2,800,000
(active, reserves, guard)

Law Enforcement personel: 745,000
(feds, state, local, & special)

So for all you "we are being taken over" folks, and those who fear these camps and other things...how is it less then 4 million people are going to be able to overun and keep order on 248 million people????????????

The very last people I am affraid of is anyone in our Military & or Police lets face it the last real war we won was WW2, so what are we talking here someone who enlisted for the education bonus's or to learn a trade, or because a Judge told him/her it was that or reform school or jail? Come see ole Slim baby I'll show how one doesn't need any weapons at all to take someone out.

reply to post by rcwj75


Not saying that it's going to happen, but if someone were planning it, the first step would be to disarm the citizens.

How many of those 248 million people are willing to die to preserve their rights and freedoms ? And how many of them have the will and the means to fight back against an armed police force and military , and win ?

It's not a question of being paranoid, it's a question of being aware of the possibility, no matter how remote.

reply to post by ZindoDoone


Hey, um this isn't relevant to the topic at hand, but how do you get your computer to type in russian. do you have to install a language interface pack? I have windows XP. Haha if you could help me out that would be awesome! thanks!

reply to post by MarsAttacks


Ummmmm..Ummmmm. OK, truth is I stole that from an email a friend of mine sent me!! I'm not sure how to do that but language programs are available for XP!!

Zindo

Could be good, could be bad. If they gather the IP/MAC addresses or personal information it's one way for the Illuminati to identify who's not on board.

When it happens, it will be more like Civil War, than Revolution. Do you remember the tariffs put on farming supplies from other countries, making the cotton industry take a nose dive? It was done to produce income for a Federal government to pay for it's burgeoning bureaucracy while hampering trade and stripping the South of financial successes and States power. Punitive taxes have certainly been seen in America before. Throw in a moral link, such as slavery, or amnesty for illegals and gay marriage, plus ignoring states rights, and gerrymandering, you have a recipe for Civil War. In other words taking back State's rights, local rights, and individual rights is not revolutionary. Seizing control from a distant tyrant has been done already. The slavery thing was bound to collapse, anyway, but using abolition as a precondition to admit Missouri eliminated state power and gave it to Washington and the Northern representatives that outnumbered the South's. The North had an entirely different agenda speed than the South.

Now, when the time comes, arms will be made very available, and the individual will have his say again, at least for awhile. The weak will gather around the strong. Leaders will emerge, and a nostalgic re-interpretation of the Constitution will be set back in place. We will see who our allies might be, and a new world map will be drawn.

I keep my rifle oiled. It is from the Spanish-American war. Teddy Roosevelt called this Winchester "Big Medicine". It can shoot a hole through a small tree. I don't worry about people stockpiling weapons, I worry about the inability to do so, if I need to.

reply to post by ZindoDoone


haha, oh ok. figured it out tho. Я нмнога говадю порусски haha takes me forever to type it tho cuz i have no idea how the russian keyboard is setup

Originally posted by stinger94
As honorable as his intentions may be, his is wrong, we do have to swear an oath to not only the constitution, but the President of the United States as well. We swear to both, not one or the other. EVERY enlisted member of any military service swears an oath to both. Yes Officers are different, but at least in the Marine Corps, Officers make up just over 10%.

I hope that this will clear up any and all questions about who you swear your oath to.

And the fact that you do have the right and duty under the UCMJ to reject any direct order that is contrary to the US Constitution.

Furthermore it is a crime punishable by US law to deprive an American Citizen of any rights laid out in the Constitution as you will read in TITLE 18, U.S.C., SECTION 242. From fines up to and including the death penalty.


"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Baring the Caveat in the Uniform Code of Military Justice. UCMJ, Art. 92 (1) A. A general order or regulation is lawful unless it is contrary to the Constitution, the laws of the United States, or lawful superior orders or for some other reason is beyond the authority of the official issuing it.

I add this law.

TITLE 18, U.S.C., SECTION 242

Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, ... shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnaping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

Do you realize a power hungry anything goes regime would do anything to control and own the people by heavy taxation. Never ever under estimate a government and what lengths it will go to stay in power and to control everyones lives.

[edit on 22-3-2009 by amari]