Is Israel Trying To Screw The Mid East Or Are They Just Stupid!

Israel and palestine problem can explained like this;

Palestine "we're going to kill you all"
Israel "not if i kill you first"

Its an "you attack me then i'll attack you back" and its going to end up destorying eachother.

Israel is stupid because they aren't protecting themselves, and the USG is stupid for supporting them. Murder is wrong. There is no justification for Israel and there is none for the terrorist. They are the same in my book and both should be checked. Both need to be put in their place. One peoples right to exist never can be allowed out weigh another peoples right to exist. That's what we call ethnic cleansing.

If Israel has a right to protect itself so does Palestine. That's why all the arguements people make on this subject are so ignorant. Palestinians should die for Israel's protection but Israeli's shouldn't die for Palestinians protection. That's pathetic, broken, ugly, inhumane logic. All of it.

The USG needs to quit craddling Israel and the Arabs need to quit craddling Palestine. Draw the damn line already! A state was created that displaced millions of people. That is a wrong that only the international community can fix. Its time for the world community to force both sides to submit to borders that create two states. They have forfeited their sovereignty. Palestine doesn't even have a viable government and Israel is a failed state. It can't exist without murder and injustice and aid from my tax dollars. Tis a welfare state and now Americans are dying to pay for it. Basically, it should be on the list of places we need to democratize because it's just too damn expensive and dangerous to keep propping them up. Draw the damn line.

If Israel doesn't defend itself, it gives them a reasons for attacking palestine. Its the same with palestine too

isreal is doing what is in her best intrest. like wise with the palistieans. peace will never come to that region

i blame both of them for the problem but mostly, i blame the palestinians. they're the ones blowing themselves up. if they used peaceful methods, the international community might actually start listening to what they have to say.

Originally posted by silQ
i blame both of them for the problem but mostly, i blame the palestinians. they're the ones blowing themselves up. if they used peaceful methods, the international community might actually start listening to what they have to say.

I believe suicide bombing is a recent development in the history of the conflict , no one seemed to be listening before or since it's appearence .
my problem with Hamas and the other suicide jihadists is that they target civilians , if they hit military or political targets i'd consider them in a very different light .

Ok firstly Israel deosnt go out of its way to limit civilian casualties. They are mroe than happy to kill 20 palestinians to get one guy who could possibly be a suicide bomber. They use missiles to kill one guy, when other means which are less destructive could be used.

The palestinians have used peaceful methods and there are groups now who try to. The problem is western media just doesnt care about anyones plight if its a peacful protest, so no-one hears about these. The suicide bombers are recent and have worked in the sense that they have brought the palestinian plight to the international attention. The problem is the majority of media outlets are pro-Israel (whether this is because of jewish influence in politics and media is another topic altogether), so the palestinians are made to be the 'agressors'

As to the arad nations invading Israel, yes the did invade israel, but thats because Israel was made on their land without their consent. How would you like it if the government decided that you yard had to be split to let some guy who lived there 1000's of years ago live there, you wouldnt be happy. neither were the arabs. So they took their land back (quite rightly).

As for the palestinians only targeting civilians, its because they dont have the technology or the means to get to military or political targets. If you gave them missiles, and apaches and tanks, i'm sure they'd go after sharon and his thugs rather than the civilians trying to live their lives.

The whole conflict has stemmed from Israel being made in arab terrirtory. Historically Muslims and Jews have gotten along ok. Only in the 20th century has this religious hatred stemmed from land disputes. And israel isnt doing anything to help. The only government the palestinians have is being targeted and is in dissaray.

As for Arafat, did he not get a nobel peace prize? i'm not too sure on this so correct me if i'm wrong...

But sharon is a war criminal... Peace prize vs War crim... hmmm enough said...

its funny how America always backs Israel not matter what they do

As for the palestinians only targeting civilians, its because they dont have the technology or the means to get to military or political targets. If you gave them missiles, and apaches and tanks, i'm sure they'd go after sharon and his thugs rather than the civilians trying to live their lives.


there can't be any excuse for the deliberate killing of civilians , they are either fighting a war with an army or they are terrorists .
as for arrafat , nobal prize or not ,his regime is rank with corruption ,it's member's lining thier own pockets .
this is one of the reasons for hamas's popularity ,nuts though they obviously are ,thier members aren't driving flash cars around the gaza

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by dahei
As for the palestinians only targeting civilians, its because they dont have the technology or the means to get to military or political targets. If you gave them missiles, and apaches and tanks, i'm sure they'd go after sharon and his thugs rather than the civilians trying to live their lives.

you've made a excellent point there

___

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe they would use these weapons to further terrorize the civilian poulation. There is absolutely no way for us to know.

I do know that there are weapons that can be bought, as there have been in the past. Weapons made in China and the USSR. Why haven't the Palestinians got their hands on these weapons? Maybe they don't have the money. Maybe other countries will not sell them to Palestine, for their own reasons.

I do know that the Hamas leadership supports the sacrifice of children. Not their own children, mind you. Palestine has no sane leaders that are willing to work toward the peace. This is unfortunate because future generations have no hope of living anything resembling a productive life as long as this insanity continues.

infanate,

by sacrifise of children I HOPE he means that they willingly target civilians to prove a point. All the "Palistian Children whe don't hear about" (I beleive you said it) killed are in accedental crossfire.

And you are all hypocrates to let a person call Sharone a war criminal, and never mention Arafag's long list of crimes. You can sy what evere you want, but if it's dumb, back it up; does anyone even find and compare the "crimes" the leaders have on record? I'd love a list, because if sharone really is so bad that he even overshadows Arafat, I'd love to know how.

Originally posted by specialasianX

For the record i dont support terrorism which is why i dont support Israel.

I agree with your entire post! Excellent points.

Saphie, you know that is totally incorrect. You know that you fire at Israel by name, but then only mention the other side as some shadowy "the terrorists".
You know the history of the illness there, I've spent hours explaining it here on this site. The Israelis, that is to say, the Jews, had and have just as much right to exist, and to exist in their own state, as do the Arabs. Remember, we are talking about an area of the world that before the Jews reclaimed the land from nature, was desert in some areas, and malaria-infested marshes in the others. The Jews made the land livable, and they also paid top dollar for the lands they bought from the Arabs. After the Jews made something of the place, then all of a sudden it was important to the Arabs, huh? I can sure tell why the conservatives support the Jews and the Liberals do not! Anyway, back to the topic. Before the partition vote occured, the Jewish Agency sent two representatives to the Arab League, where they were told that they would get nothing through negotiations, but only through arms. The Arabs were in no mood to negotiate. This seems to me that they saw no need for negotiations, as to the Arab world, negotiations are only a means by which to buy time in order to strengthen yourself and then defeat your enemy. They felt the Arab world was strong enough to defeat the Jews and to drive them into the sea. As a matter of fact, that is what they tried to do just after Israel became a state. Rather than be happily conent with owning the vast majority of the region and allow the Jews a small sliver of land upon which to call home, they use others, currently called "Palestinians", as a weapon against the Jews.

I think its time we faced facts and blamed the right people, and those people are not the Jews.

TC: You are missing my point. Instead of looking backward, try looking forward for a change. Do you honestly believe that the Palestinians are just going to pack up and move to Jordan? That's never going to happen no matter how many quotation marks are put around their name.

It's time for a President that is willing to do the right thing. I'm so disappointed in Bush. His handling of this issue was one of the few things I really could agree with. Then last week he went all christian fundie on us.

And, don't make it seem like I've chosen a side. My view is plain. Both sides are pathetic, and should be forced into internationally drawn lines. If we have to send NATO in there or some international peace keeping force then that's what we should do. The world can't sit by and watch all this needless death when a line can be draw and enforced. Only a leader with cuts would even say that. I thought Bush was the one but sadly he's a poll whore just like the rest.

Its really funny how some people hear such biased sides to the history of the region... no-one ever mentions the zionist terrorists who blew up the king david hotel in the 30's along with other british targets... i'm not saying the palestinians are angels, but compared to Israel they're at least saints (i know the palestinians would probably detest being called saints but oh well...)

Special Asian, you never stop making me laugh. Thanks.

Let's start from the top.

Someone stated the following (which is ignored by the idiots of the world)

Did you ever notice when suicide bombers stopped going into Israel that all the killing on both sides stopped?

Answer: NO. You all stupidly ignore this fact and your points are less valid due to that DELIBERATE ignoring.

Then there was this joke of a theory:

The terrorism in Europe is due to Europe's support against terrorism which to the Arabs is a war against Islam.

So you're saying that the only reason Muslims are attacking Europeans is because they see the fight against MURDERERS as a war against Muslims. Hey, if they wouldn't insist on identifying with the MURDERERS i suppose this wouldn't be a problem. Call a spade a spade. I call them extremists. People like YOU believe it's a Muslim cause? How stupid.

They use missiles to kill one guy, when other means which are less destructive could be used.

Yes you're right... but that would require Hamas to put the leader out in the open so perhaps a 9mm or even a pea shooter could be used. That ain't happening so don't talk in unrealistic terms.

The palestinians have used peaceful methods

If my chair wasn't so sturdy I most definitely would have fallen off it laughing at this historically and mentally ignorant statement.

Finally this gem:

As for the palestinians only targeting civilians, its because they dont have the technology or the means to get to military or political targets. If you gave them missiles, and apaches and tanks, i'm sure they'd go after sharon and his thugs rather than the civilians trying to live their lives.

WRONG WRONG WRONG... i don't know how else to say it. Sniping at babies and old people and blowing bombs off in buses and in pizza stores and clubs? Being busted with explosive belts and bombs in cars and bags... and you say they have nothing? Give me a break... They lob rockets at CIVILIANS not at army bases. This is a WRONG statement. Thankfully you aren't there and what you say is simply a "statement" because I can't possibly imagine where the premise for such a theory can come from.

As said above

Assassination is much better than blanket bombing.

But some of the people above wouldn't be happy with either. If Israel comes in and indiscriminately bowls over houses you complain about the innocents being hit. If they specifically target someone for their murderous actions you complain about the tactics they use to kill a known murderer. Give it up already. Do you honestly expect Israel to do NOTHING while their people get picked off driving to work? Well, if you do too bad. Luckily they don't give a damn what any diplomat club sitting in waffle-ville has to say about THEIR PEOPLE'S SAFETY.

Targeting the murderers specifically garners the fewest civilian casualties and as I've said a BILLION damn times, the palestinian people at large have NO fault in this. The killers like Rantisi and Yassin do. So they bit the big one with minimal real people getting hurt. Good for them. Bullseye.

Saph, if steal your car today, rename it and say that it is now mine, can I tell you to stop living in the past when you try and tell me it used to be yours? Please, you know that "Livin' in the present" stuff is not cut and dried. If so, then Everything that is Israel's is Israel's, and the Arabs need to vacate. How's that for forgeting the past?
Both sides are pathetic? Israel is pathetic? I've drawn it out perfectly why Israel is not in the wrong, and why they are not to be expected to give an inch, although they have demonstrated more than once their willingness to do so. How have they been received? More demands and more deaths. The Arabs have not changed in their desire for the Jews to swim or drown. This catch-all, or should I say, weak catch-none, declaration that all are wrong and that the small sliver of Jewish land should be even further divided is weak and spineless and not in any means just.

SAX, try and be less biased yourself. In your attempts, you will willingly bring to light the deaths of innocent Jews at the hands of the Arabs even before the thirties. You seem to forget the British-encouragaged riots of Arabs against Jews in 1921, led by Haj el-Husseini I believe. Check the name, I might be off a little. The violence and hostility continued with little intervention by the British "protectors", and fomented again in 1929, where the entire town of Hebron was killed or had fled because of the pogroms. Save your attempts to paint the Israelis as horrible while the "Palestinians" are "less the Angels" crap for a place where some are unlearned; it won't work here. Not as long as my computer is working and I find the threads where unchecked anti-Semitism can be found!
You will also bring to light the fact that there is no such thing as "Palestinians", and will bring to our attention that even at the time of the Peel Commision a Muslim leader vehemently pointed out that there is no such thing as Palestinians and that "Palestine" was a creation of the Jews. He was not correct, as we know that "Palestinian" is a bastardization of the word "Phillistine", which was a Roman attempt to erase the memory of the Jew from the face of the earth.

Originally posted by Djarums
Special Asian, you never stop making me laugh. Thanks.

Let's start from the top.

Someone stated the following (which is ignored by the idiots of the world)

Did you ever notice when suicide bombers stopped going into Israel that all the killing on both sides stopped?

Answer: NO. You all stupidly ignore this fact and your points are less valid due to that DELIBERATE ignoring.

I wont ignore it, the Palestinians agreed to not enter Israel if Israel stoppped killing palestianians... it worked coz both parties involved came to an agreement...

Then there was this joke of a theory:

The terrorism in Europe is due to Europe's support against terrorism which to the Arabs is a war against Islam.

So you're saying that the only reason Muslims are attacking Europeans is because they see the fight against MURDERERS as a war against Muslims. Hey, if they wouldn't insist on identifying with the MURDERERS i suppose this wouldn't be a problem. Call a spade a spade. I call them extremists. People like YOU believe it's a Muslim cause? How stupid.

Did i say it was a Muslim cause? no! How about you stop trying to look so smart by putting words into peoples mouths and read what is written. I said the arabs view europes support of the war on terrorism as an attack on Islam.. why? because no non-islamic terror groups are targeted. In fact muslim countries that have no ties with al-qaeda are targeted (iraq) for the war on terror... kinda inconsitant dont you think? only attacking muslim terrorists and attacking non-terror muslim countries... i'm not saying the war on terror is a war on muslims but i'm saying the muslim do... i know many muslim, alot of my family are... so i think i'd have a better didea than you would as to how muslims feels...

They use missiles to kill one guy, when other means which are less destructive could be used.

Yes you're right... but that would require Hamas to put the leader out in the open so perhaps a 9mm or even a pea shooter could be used. That ain't happening so don't talk in unrealistic terms.

oh so a 9mm and pea shooter are the ONLY weapons less destructive than a missile... man your an idiot... and its not even funny idiot its embarrasing to have morons like you on such a fine site... with all the tech israel have from the US i'm sure they could find a sniper that can shoot from a chopper

The palestinians have used peaceful methods

If my chair wasn't so sturdy I most definitely would have fallen off it laughing at this historically and mentally ignorant statement.

so because you havent heard of any of these they didnt happen... you are a true ignoramus... i know a palestinian refugee who was jailed by the Israelis because he protested peacfully against the occupation, him and about 50 others blockaded a military unit on the west bank. 3 protestors were shot and left to die (the soldiers wouldnt let ambulances in) the rest were arrested held and released and warned if they protested again they to would die... hmmm funny how you FOX news doesnt report this stuff isnt it

Finally this gem:

As for the palestinians only targeting civilians, its because they dont have the technology or the means to get to military or political targets. If you gave them missiles, and apaches and tanks, i'm sure they'd go after sharon and his thugs rather than the civilians trying to live their lives.

WRONG WRONG WRONG... i don't know how else to say it. Sniping at babies and old people and blowing bombs off in buses and in pizza stores and clubs? Being busted with explosive belts and bombs in cars and bags... and you say they have nothing? Give me a break... They lob rockets at CIVILIANS not at army bases. This is a WRONG statement. Thankfully you aren't there and what you say is simply a "statement" because I can't possibly imagine where the premise for such a theory can come from.

hey moron, your point has not misproven my statement at all... all your saying is they attack civilian targets, which i am quite aware of, but only because they cant get to army bases coz they are too well defended... man you are a true idiot...

As said above

Assassination is much better than blanket bombing.

But some of the people above wouldn't be happy with either. If Israel comes in and indiscriminately bowls over houses you complain about the innocents being hit. If they specifically target someone for their murderous actions you complain about the tactics they use to kill a known murderer. Give it up already. Do you honestly expect Israel to do NOTHING while their people get picked off driving to work? Well, if you do too bad. Luckily they don't give a damn what any diplomat club sitting in waffle-ville has to say about THEIR PEOPLE'S SAFETY.

Targeting the murderers specifically garners the fewest civilian casualties and as I've said a BILLION damn times, the palestinian people at large have NO fault in this. The killers like Rantisi and Yassin do. So they bit the big one with minimal real people getting hurt. Good for them. Bullseye.

you may have said it a billion times but its no wonder no-one listens to you, your a #ing creten!... maybe if israel stopped killing palestinians and left the occupied territories (which they have agreed to do which is good) the palestinians would stop having to defend themselves...

TC: well, well...I guess you put me in my place. Talkin bout justice and cars and what ??? huh ??? I'm lost. Your fundie jargon is too much for me...

Ummm, they are pathetic because they've been fighting this crap out for going on 9 decades. If Israel was going to take all of that land they should've done it already. In the current climate they can't take that land and displace all those people because of ta-dah!! international law--that gross sovereignty stealing crap of an organization known as the UN created the rules of "war crimes" and "genocide" which includes, displacement. The only thing that can be done is two states. Both will probably still be poor and pathetic welfare states but at least they won't be killing each other.

ph, are you saying that they should be cold and heartless and kill the "Palestinians"? Because that is what would happen. Their brethren will not take them. Heck, their brethren do nothing but allow the young "Palestinians" to be walking bombs with which to kill the Arab enemy, the Israeli.
Saphie, you can read all over the board where people call Sharon a war criminal and never even mention one thing about Arafat, what do you think they'd be saying if Israel did what you propose.
I don't mean to "put you in your place", Saphie. Sure, there are times when to sides can be equally wrong, but this isn't one of them.