Black people 'less intelligent' scientist claims

reply to post by cheeser


But the brain gets bigger as it gains more knowledge. Again, it can be just education based.

Asians are not more intelligent then white people, they are far more focused on education then the white counterparts. if you look at the kids on summer vacation. The white and black kids are playing sports or going to the beach. The asian kids are still studying. They study on their days off, and for more hours after school.

Problme with the non asian kids is that they are always looking for next Shaq instead of Bill Gates. When I went to middle school, we didn't have walls, just plastic partitions. Yet the high school got a new million dollar stadium. And this was several decades ago.

How many asians do you see sitting at football games? Now how many asian kids are in the orchestra? See my point?

Which even do you think adds more brainpower?

Screw the less intelligent theory. Talk about the height discrimination theory from women and jobs!!!!

It is an absurd comment from people who are stuck in the dark ages. Perhaps, their minds will always be trying to catch up to civilization and will come up with anything to keep their story (lie) going.

I don't think we know enough about intelligence yet to make such conclusions. People who are good at taking tests, and on paper, usually wind up going to college and are rated as more intelligent than people who don't go to college, but I have met many college grads who were in my opinion, were mentally handicapped when it came to completing physical tasks. Just the same I have known people who had an amazing abilities at doing real world physical things but were completely inept at school work. Maybe it might be a matter of focus, but in my observation people tend to like to do what they find themselves good at.

I've gone / I go to school with, been group/club members with, worked / work with, taught / teach and have been / still am friends with many black people. When I say black, I mean skin color specifically because most "black" people I've known have not been "African-Americans". Technically most have been Haitians. A close second would be Brazilians. Other than that I've had interaction as family (yes family), friend, coworker, fellow student as well as student/teacher with Nigerians, Trinnies, Jamaicans, Bahamians, Ethiopians and Eritreans.

Here's the deal. I've had positive and negative experiences (just like with my white, asian, hispanic, jewish, indian and native american indian friends (and family members). One of my best friends is Haitian. One of the most ignorant people I know is also Haitian. I also know some very ignorant white people. What's the difference between the ignorant Haitian guy I know and the ignorant white people I know? The white people are "functionally" literate while the haitian guy was raised on a small farm and is illiterate. Most Haitians I know are literate.

I teach. I have two black students (college level). One of my best students is Bahamian. She's very motivated and interested in the subject material. The other black student is American and she is one of my worse students, but she also seems to not be interested in the subject material. What can I infer? In order to be a good student in any given class you need to be interested. (I'll add that my other 16 students are white and very from worse than the worse black student to on par with the better black student - the bahamian). When I was teaching middle-school age kids, I had a brother-sister duo who were my smartest students out of the group. Why? Because their parents are professors and raised their children with a passion for learning.

A good friend in highschool was Nigerian (her parents immigrated here) and she was smarter and more motivated than I was. She ended up going to Stanford, while her brother, who was a year younger and not as motivated or bright, ended up at the same state school as I attended.

I'm currently in a master's program and one of my fellow students, who is Haitian, just got accepted to IU for his doctoral program.

WHen you talk about intelligence, there are many factors. Look up F. Boaz and his research about nutrition and intelligence, a study done to counter the research done relating to the "inferiority of minorities". This was back at the beginning of the 1900s. Culture is also a factor.

Look, what you may consider ignorant or an example of lack of intelligence, may be linked to the culture of an individual.

Why did we bring this 2 yearold topic back?


By the white, to those had ancestors that were slave owners, ya'll brought over the strongest blacks, not the most intelligent.

The African Americans today still have those genes. They were not meant to be intelligent, they were meant to do manual labor and fight for their previous clan leaders. Thus you can't say that blacks are less intelligent overall, as the blacks in Africa do not have the opportunity to get a good education.



[edit on 3/14/2009 by die_another_day]

Originally posted by cheeser
Professor Dimond? Please.


He never brings up irrefutable facts such as brain volume being positivey correlated with intelligence.



[edit on 14/3/09 by cheeser]

Do women not have a smaller brain volume than men ! .

Women have smaller brains than men, with women having more gray matter and men having more white matter. This finding may help explain why women are typically better than men at verbal tasks, while men are typically better than women at spatial tasks, as well as why the sexes perform equally well on intelligence tests in spite of males having larger brains.

source

Though, i agree with you regarding political correctness run amok .

edit;spelling

[edit on 14-3-2009 by UmbraSumus]

reply to post by MrAnonUK


James Watson is a Schlemiel.

I'm African. Pure breed. Born and bred in west Africa.
I'm a graduate student in a top 20 US Engr university. My major is computer Engineering.

Besides my 4.0, no one even comes close to me in class. Indians, Chinese, and Americans.

And to think that back home during my undergrad I was pretty much mediocre.

So where the hell does Watson get his sample space? What an aged sphincter.

Just an interesting piece of additional information regarding the scientist in question.

A Nobel Prize-winning scientist who provoked a public outcry by claiming black Africans were less intelligent than whites has a DNA profile with up to 16 times more genes of black origin than the average white European.

We all trace an ancestry back to Africa , Dr. Watsons ..... is a great grandparent.

"This level is what you would expect in someone who had a great-grandparent who was African," said Kari Stefansson of deCODE Genetics

And an Asian influence ..... no less .

In addition to the 16 per cent of his genes which were identified as likely to have come from a black ancestor of African descent, a further 9 per cent were likely to have come from an ancestor of Asian descent, the test indicated.

Source ~ The Independent

I seriously doubt there's that much of a genetic difference. IMHO, the difference is in the cultural expectations of any particular group. Blacks (not all, but enough) tend to hang their aspirations on sports or music. To an extent, so do hispanics. Whites on 'going to college and getting a good job', middle of the road apathetic neer-do-wells. Asians on excelling at grades, and getting that fantastic career job.

I have a cousin that thought he'd get into the NBA. He focused his whole life on basketball even though I told him that he was a wetback, and how many hispanics does he know in the NBA? Well, life got the better of him, and he found out differently. He can play basketball, for sure, but otherwise he's as dumb as a box of rocks, and I mean DUMB.

We all hang our future expectations on the culture that we are raised in. Blacks in european culture are markedly different than blacks in american culture, and both are way different than blacks brought up in many African cultures.

Anthropologically there are marked physical differences, but the genetics aren't so far apart that the three human subspecies are all that different as far as brain function.

reply to post by ae0nflux


Then you should know what "anecdotal evidence" is.

[edit on 14-3-2009 by ghaleon12]

Click here for more information.

Click here for more information.

If I may, I would like to add one more point that I feel is salient to this topic/discussion. Once again, I speak of the black culture in America (USA) as it is that which I am the most familiar with. I believe that the "hip hop" sub-culture has really destroyed the black people in America. It is my opinion that this sub-culture is almost totally responsible for all of the glorified ignorance and lack of social decourum that we see in a lot of urban blacks.
Maybe off on a tangent here...but look at all of the mini dramas and documentaries that have been made noting the lack of educational resources in inner city schools, social and economic hardships in the predominantly black communities leading to poor representation and funding for education, and the resulting kids that run amok like (dare I say it even as a black person) wild baboons in a jungle. Why should they care to learn? Their teachers don't care. They just want to avoid getting shot and make their tenure. Kids are being passed through high school that cannot read or write on an elementary school level. Why should their parents care about their education? If they aren't on dope they are working too hard on double shifts to make the rent and keep some semblance of food in the home. Welfare queens are too busy running men to secure the next baby that in turn, secures her survival. The parents that do care often don't have the funds to move their kid out of the bad district's education system to a decent school unless the kid has shown exemplary performance worthy of a scholarship to a private academy.

Then, throw hip hip culture into this quagmire. This disadvantaged kid comes home to a bologna sandwich, kool aid, mom at work still, daddy been gone since birth or in the streets, BUT...we have BET. We have MTV. We have ignorant examples like Snoop Dogg, Mo'nique, 50 cents, Lil' Wayne, Young Jeezy (sp?), and a whole plethora of other bad representations of black America. These kids are inundated with bad example after bad example. From music to TV to real life on the streets. What are they seeing in their neighborhoods? Poverty, hunger, prostitution, pimping, substance abuse and general misery. Some places are worse than others, naturally. Not to get all metaphysical, but there also, is arguably, a degree of intangible psychic vibration in this mire of failure and depression and baseness. Things were just swinging to this obscene direction full scale in the 80's. This opinion is not to label all inner city or impoverished blacks failures or ignorant, but what I am stating here is anecdote but also fact as I have seen as a black person among black people. It's tragic.

It's tragic that a young man (please read) with *just as much potential* as any white or asian kid, has to have the social pressure placed upon him by his own peers to act ignorant. Lil' Wayne is rich, has "fly" women, and gold, cars, mansions and this is their role model. Instead of saving to buy some good books, the hip hop culture insists it's members stay 'dipped in gear". So they drop $135 they don't really have on expensive sports shoes, $152 on designer jeans, and $300 on designer hoodies so they can emulate their role models and their dress.

In my opinion, this is dumb in and of itself. To obtain a lot of this stuff, most of these less fortunate kids turn to crime. Again, this is glorified by the hip hop culture anyway, and it's considered acceptable to aim to be like the characters on BET and MTV...why? Because these poor kids (usually) don't have any positive role models, and if they do, no one is there that will STEADILY put that well-deserved boot in their rear to make them stay on the straight and narrow and keep their mind focused on intelligent pursuits. Bottom line, Hip Hop is there to pick up the stragglers that want to be dunces, and it's there to make it look appealing and acceptable. It's time to unweave this mess out of black culture, and perceptions of our people.

I'm not sure about you people, but I will take the side of a Nobel Prize winner & that of scientific proof before that of someone's opinion on this site.

reply to post by Seasick


I think the problem is that the kids are being sold. They see a guy who is successful, showing bling and money and cars.

(they usually don't show them bankrupt later on)

And when you are down and out, it looks like a pretty nice place to be. Just like someone wanting to be Bekham or Michael Jordon.It is an out. And you make enough money to support your whole neighborhood. But they don't realize your chances are similar to playing the lottery.

And black people are not the only ones guilty of that. Everyone hopes they have the next Tiger Woods or Michael Phelps.
Look how many people show up in Hollywood hoping to make it.
People don't look at the numbers. There are only a handful, hundreds of people in the limelight. Out of 6 billion people on the planet. What are the odds?
Becoming a doctor or a congressman is way to much work. And just doesn't seem as glamorous.


As I explained on another thread, for the city folks anyways, that is hard to imagine life for the better when you have yet to see an example. You have generations upon generations of people struggling, and you follow suit. Having a better life doesn't seem any more possible then it does for me or you to buy the White House.

And they are caught in a downward spiral. Despair leads to crime and crime leads to despair. You have young parents who have no idea what they are doing. They have had parents who have had no idea what they are doing, no one forms any real relationships. And you have this lack of attachment. Hence the reason a lot of people join gangs. To have a place to belong, With rules, however twisted they may be. To have people that feel like a family. It is a sarrogate family.

The teachers get apathetic because after a while you stop trying. My cousin was a teacher in one of these areas. She tried but eventually had to leave. She brought a computer to the class so the kids could get the experience. Someone broke it. So she had it fixed. Then it got broken again. Things of that nature.

It makes me sad. I wish there was an answer. But it is a complicated problem.

But they do give each other a hard time. A friend of mine was going to school to be a midwife. Black person of course. Beautiful, smart, ambitious. She wanted to be able to help and be there for women to deliver babies. To make sure they were educated about it and understood what was going on and didn't face it alone. I thought she was a lovely person for it. But she told me her struggles. She got accused of trying to be "white" That she wasn't black enough. It was hard on her. My heart ached for her because here she was, getting an education and I knew she was going far in life. And she was given grief about it.
I wondered how many people succumbed and gave up?ugh. I hate to think about it.


[edit on 14-3-2009 by nixie_nox]

What I would like to know is why hasn't the continent of Africa left the tribal days and advanced with the rest of the world?

Seems there are no countries that are remotely desireable where the majority of people in them are black.

Funny thing is that I know a extremely intelligent guy who is a forward air combat controller and para rescue/jumper guy for the Air Force Special Forces. He's an expert at strategy, nearly unbeatable in chess, commands a squad of commandos and is trusted by other intelligent men to get the job done because he too is intelligent. and strange he's black. Go figure. Black people that are every bit as smart as everybody else. yeah they exist, and in the same numbers per population as with any other race or skin color.

Asians are supposed to be really really smart. but I've been to various parts of china. met a lot of really stupid asians. But all asians are supposed to be smart. ???????

Guess the geneticists claims or conclusions are just waaaaaay off.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
I would not go so far as to say one race of people is somehow genetically more intelligent than another, but common sense tells us that talents and achievement have not been equally distributed across the globe and across different ethnic groups. This can be due to genetics, but can also be due to culture or envirnomental factors. Here are some examples.

For one reason or another, Black people seem to dominate certain sports like Sprinting and Basketball. Sure there are some fast non-Black people or good basketball players that are not Black, but if you watch the Olympics or the NBA, sprinting and basketball are dominated by Black people. I cannot say whether this is due to genetics, environment, social conditions, culture, or a combination of these factors. Nevertheless, the phenomenon is clearly present.

For one reason or another, Asian American Students students outperform other students. Sure you can find an Asian student with poor test scores, and non-Asian students who have excellent test scores, but on average, Asian students get the best test scores. Again, this can be genetics, it can be culture, it can be envirnoment, or a mixture of all these factors. Nevertheless, Asian students do better than non-Asian students.

Can you provide some proof of what you are saying? The sport one is fair enough I agree with that. But the Asian students are generally smarter comment. I'd like to know how you know this. Not cos I don't believe it, I want to see some solid proof.

Originally posted by doorbell412
Screw the less intelligent theory. Talk about the height discrimination theory from women and jobs!!!!

Aint that the darn truth! I am sure you have seen studies and seen the evidence in hiring practices that tall men get a lot of the executive positions (read - better salaries).

And there still is a glass ceiling (the gender wage gap) - up until circa 2003 a woman made .69 cents for every dollar a man made in the same job, then it was about .76 cents.

RE: nature and nurture, I recall a commercial to support the American Afro-American college fund that ran on TV for years - A MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE.

Watching the show on Tesla tonight on History Channel, I was abashed as how little I knew about the Tesla coil, induction motors, capacitors, sound waves, radar, AC and DC power - it just does not seem that when I was in school that it was appropriate study
for females. Even teaching jobs in the liberal arts were going to men, and women were not getting many interviews.

I fantasize that if a lot of women had become physicists, chemists and engineers that perhaps the science would look different today... and the world if more women had
become leaders in the FORTUNE 500 and political hierarchies.

Catherine Austin Fitts is a true female role model - she used to work for HUD Housing & Urban Development and is a frequently quoted muckraker in the talk radio world and on the net.

Her blog is at solari.com...
She terms her work FINANCIAL PERMACULTURE and proffers advice as to where to
invest money in these uncertain times.

Skull and Bones Secret Society and multiple other fraternities had excluded women
and blacks for years.

The tragedy of the commons is that the brotherhood and the sisterhood never got it together whether they were black or white brothers or black and white sisters.

[edit on 15-3-2009 by EarthShine]