"Zionist Conspiracy Theory" = Black Propaganda

To some, the Manifest Destiny Doctrine was based on the idea that America had a divine providence. It had a future that was destined by God to expand its borders, with no limit to area or country. All the traveling and expansion were part of the spirit of Manifest Destiny, a belief that it was God's will that Americans spread over the entire continent, and to control and populate the country as they see fit. Many expansionists conceived God as having the power to sustain and guide human destiny. "It was white man's burden to conquer and christianize the land" (Demkin, Chapter 8). For example, the idea that the Puritan notion of establishing a "city on a hill" was eventually secularized into Manifest Destiny--a sort of materialistic, religious, utopian destiny. Source

Huh.....yet Zionism is vilified to the obscene extent seen on these forums. I'll never understand that. Unfortunately, civility and decorum prevents me from describing the specific stupid, empty heads that fuel bigoted and biased opinions.

[edit on 13-3-2009 by MrPenny]

reply to post by StrangeBrew


That makes as much sense as any other reason. Our swords were sharper so this is our land? How does that make anymore sense than because of perseverance against hatred and oppression?

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending upon your viewpoint, the reality is Israel exists, therefore the point is really moot.

Originally posted by seagull
That's the true meaning of Zionism, the yearning for a place to rest ones body.

I am afraid then, that Israel is the wrong place. No 'rest' will be found there until these people wipe each other out. I suggest that Jews lose the zany idea that god is a real estate agent and look elsewhere.

Originally posted by seagullAfter what the Jews have suffered over the centuries they've earned the right, in blood, to have a homeland.


I see. Sounds like reparations. If this logic was applied everywhere, the entire planet would be just like the middle east. No thank you. It is a shame that the ancient cultures over there have resorted acting out like squabbling children who hold onto silly ideas that will never let them live in peace. Mark my words, it will not end well over there.

[edit on 02/21/09 by daeoeste]

Originally posted by seagull
[Zionism on it's face is no bad thing. Everyone wants, or needs, to be from somewhere...the Jews were, and are, no different. Nor for that matter are the Palestinians in Gaza and else where. That's the true meaning of Zionism, the yearning for a place to rest ones body.

Thats actually a really good point that seems to be getting missed on this thread and others.

Extermism OF any kind perverts the origional message NO matter how altruistic it is. That is true for Islam, Christians, and yes even Zionism.

Its the extremist on all sides that we need to be fighting not each other.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by twitchy
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems I recall a post a while back discussing your association with Freemasonry? That's a zionist institution, merely speculating, but perhaps that's where folks are making that association.

Yes, according to the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" Freemasonry is a "Zionist Organization". And so is Harry Potter (see OP).

People who make such associations dont have a clue who I am. Hate-filled and paranoid they just lash out at anyone who provides sound reasoning that contradicts their views.

Btw: Freemasons havent had any real power since a long time.

I'm sure you are aware that several of the most popular US presidents were Freemasons.

Freemasons are all over the mainstream media. You never see as much crticism of Freemasons in the media as you see criticism of Holocaust-deniers. As a matter of fact, the mainstream media is complicit in white-washing Freemasonry.

It's very difficult to succeed in many professions, such as law, without becoming a Freemason. At one time, every lawyer was expected to become a Freemason. Many ethnic minorities also find it difficult to succeed in their careers without becoming Freemasons.

What is this "hate-filled paranoia" ?

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Look up Benjamin Franklin and find out for yourself.

I am not saying Franklin didnt say that, Im saying that Franklins statement of "Jews destroy any nation" is a paranoid blanket-statement.

Unless you are an accredited psychologist making a professional diagnosis in that capacity, your use of the word "paranoid" shows bias.

www.biblebelievers.org.au...
www.jewwatch.com...

reply to post by daeoeste


Reparations, in the case of the Jews, as with the Japanese-Americans interred during WWII are not a bad thing. When did that become a bad thing?

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


Ha ha....the cherry I picked is bigger than yours...

libelous - calumniatory: (used of statements) harmful and often untrue; tending to discredit or malign

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by StrangeBrew

 

They are the only nation of people, that I'm aware of, that exists based solely on a religion or faith.

Or does the Vatican count?

...and your point would be? The country exists, it's real, that's all that really, in the end matters. The Vatican may indeed count, it certainly did during past centuries...

Anyway...

Zionism on it's face is no bad thing. Everyone wants, or needs, to be from somewhere...the Jews were, and are, no different. Nor for that matter are the Palestinians in Gaza and else where. That's the true meaning of Zionism, the yearning for a place to rest ones body.

After what the Jews have suffered over the centuries they've earned the right, in blood, to have a homeland. Before anyone hops on me about the Palestinians, they deserve a homeland, too.

The Vatican also has the world's largest collection of porn, so I'm not sure how "religious" it is. Saudi Arabia, technically, is an Arab state. The Saud family called for the creation of an Arab homeland, similar to Israel. There is such a thing as the League of Arab States. Practically all of them consider themselves Muslim states as well. The Israeli-Arab conflict is simply two sides played against one another by the Illuminati.

Zionism is not about giving a homeland to the Jews -- it's about giving a homeland to the descendants of the original Hebrews (also called "Canaanites").

What about the Palestinians who need a place to rest their bodies? Instead of giving everybody a homeland, how about people just stay where their families have lived for hundreds of years? The Illuminati would very much like to neatly section groups of people based on religion and/or ethnicity.

Why has Israel been given all of this aid by the US, but not Liberia?

What about all of the Australians and New Zealanders who decide that they need an English homeland? What if the aboriginal Coories decided that they need a homeland? What if the Japanese and Koreans decide that they need to reconnect with their ancestral Chinese homeland?

Mexican Americans have a similar movement underway. So far, this has resulted in Mexican gangs killing Blacks to take over Black neighborhoods. Black gangs have also killed Asians to take back the projects in California. The concept of an ethnic or religious "homeland" is a slippery slope.

Exactly how have the Jews suffered more than members of any other religion? Why should having suffered be some sort of social currency?? Who in this world hasn't suffered or experienced abuse at some point in his or her life? Appealing to suffering is simply a way to take rational arguments out of the equation.

The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is a badly written black propaganda book created by the Russian Secret police to incite a pogrom against their Jewish citizens. The Jewish people never wrote any part of that vile, disgusting, anti-semitic, anti-zionist crap!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Wow. That zeppelin analogy is a perfect way for a rational person to see the ultimate futility of an argument for Israels right to exist. Unfortunately, no one with this perfect insight (in my opinion) was there who had the clout to spread this message before Israel was created. Once it was created, it held and continues to hold a right to exist. Now it is too late, the fundamentalist powers on both sides will insure violence and martyrdom are the staples of life there.

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by seagull
[Zionism on it's face is no bad thing. Everyone wants, or needs, to be from somewhere...the Jews were, and are, no different. Nor for that matter are the Palestinians in Gaza and else where. That's the true meaning of Zionism, the yearning for a place to rest ones body.

Thats actually a really good point that seems to be getting missed on this thread and others.

Again, in my opinion, Zionism does not only have to do with the yearning of a homeland for the Jewish people. There is an extremist element that must be present which is the "us versus the gentiles" mindset.

Now how many people of Jewish faith (whether they believe in their right to a homeland or not) have that mindset? Not many, maybe 1-2%.

Would an elitist conspiracy be happy with the term "Zionism" being used only in an "us versus them" context? I don't think so, that's why are having a hard time with this debate. Now the term Zionism belongs the Jewish people; although I believe Zionism belongs to those who orchestrate everything in our society.

There is a world order making its way to us via global governance. If you're an elite working for control then you must be working with other elites if you hope to accomplish anything. If your not on the same page as Zionism that's a conflict of interest to put it mildly.

strange brew get's "IT"


i agree mostly with this poster...but i think strange brew is more spot on...by not having any negative connotations toward jewish people who have amassed wealth ....which is an occasional oversite of people who don't understand the talmudic Zionist movement (as i will call it) is very different than what "represents" most jewish people and i think this overcite ...which creates racism.....is very unfortunate because i think it acts as a hurdle that cpnveniently stops most people from thinking more seriously about the matter of the Zionist movement (convenient in the sense that they...being influenced by human nature... don't want to look into possible painful truths)

and to add another point i don't think skyfloating is part of any surpression or conspiracy LOL....but instead that it would be too painful for him to contemplate that the zionist world conspiracy has merit.....either that or perhaps he doesn't see how it could "be allowed to happen or pulled off"

so it's like talking to a brick wall.......it's like trying to tell a religious person they are silly to believe in god......hello this is a belief they hold that if reveresed would cause them pain.....pain that they don't want to accept so long as the pain of POTENTIALLY being willfully ignorant is LESS

I posted last last nite how there are all sorts of corrupt greedy people based on race, religion and ideology ....white, black, yellow , catholic, jewish, atheist, ISlamic extremists, Talmudic zionists........it that those Zionists have the most Political Capital at there hands to steer the world's action more than others..........note all zionists i am referring to do not come from "jewish backgrounds" it is a power movement that has gained steam and if anything the innocent jewish people become indoctrinated into some of the zionist propoganda and some would rather not contemplate that the zionists are a huge threat to many jews (and have been the cause of much of their trauma) ......this would be a very helpless painful thought to willingly accept ...and social unpopular /couragous/not good for business as well.

p.s there may be other powerful ideologic movements or organizations also pushing toward world gov't but for most including MR. PENNY this too much of an a emotional charged issue for him to calm down and ask himself.....would it be TOO panful to unbiasedly ask yourself could talmudic Zionists wielding tons of poltical power and financial infuence actually have been screwing over ordinary jews for the last century financial emotionally and intellectually.

[edit on 13-3-2009 by cpdaman]

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Why should having suffered be some sort of social currency?? Who in this world hasn't suffered or experienced abuse at some point in his or her life? Appealing to suffering is simply a way to take rational arguments out of the equation.

Yeah, damned straight!!! Victims of slavery, spousal abuse, child abuse, child laborers, the suffering of indigenous people (Native Americans, Australian aborigines, etc...)....[/sarcasm]

Why is the persecution and suffering of the Jewish peoples any less of an humiliation to humanity than any other suffering? It personally offends and humiliates me how humans I share the air with have such repugnant views and attitudes. It literally sickens me to think that I literally am breathing the same air. Turn your question around....why shouldn't it carry some social currency? Why does the social currency cashed in by a multitude of abused and wronged segments of society and cultures have more legitimacy than what the Jewish people claim as their social currency?

"Taking rational arguments out of the equation"....that's hilarious, in the context of this thread and Skyfloating's opening post. The irrational attempts at rebuttal, and the massive ignorance exposed....

Rational arguments are pointless here. Because they are ignored. This is not a venue for "rational discussion". The narrow minded rule these forums....don't dare offer a perspective that doesn't titillate the masses, or feed the "CT" hysteria...'cause I guarantee, rational voices are shouted down and drowned in tidal waves of hyperbole and idiocy.

The worst part? If I were sitting in a bar, restaurant, shopping at the mall, visiting friends....and I overheard tripe like what I've read here....I could tell the source exactly what I thought of them. Sadly, "civility and decorum" prevents that in this venue.

When the discussion is bigotry and prejudice, one cannot separate the opinion from the person.....a bigot's character and humanity is framed in their opinions of other humans.

Edit to add:
How's this for rationality....the creation of the State of Israel is for the most part, exactly what has been occurring for the whole of humanity's history, in one form or another. Tribes, nation states, cities, empires, clans, alliances.....all formed based on some real or imagined shared traits that made the members feel safe and protected.

It is very revealing to me that not a single poster in this thread bothered to see the irony in the description of "Manifest Destiny".....not one.

[edit on 13-3-2009 by MrPenny]

A Zionist can be Jewish or Non-Jewish. Zionism in both the Ancient and Modern definitions is a love for the Land of Israel and the People of Israel and the Jewish Faith. G-D chose the Jewish Nation to be a light unto the Gentile Nations. Anyone who supports the outlandish conspiracy theory that the Jews secretly run the world is a bigger idiot than the idiot that first started the conspiracy theory.

Originally posted by daeoeste
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Wow. That zeppelin analogy is a perfect way for a rational person to see the ultimate futility of an argument for Israels right to exist. Unfortunately, no one with this perfect insight (in my opinion) was there who had the clout to spread this message before Israel was created. Once it was created, it held and continues to hold a right to exist. Now it is too late, the fundamentalist powers on both sides will insure violence and martyrdom are the staples of life there.

In my humble opinion the whole trio of religions were designed to divide and conquer and keep human kind focused on semantics and petty differences of protocol over a divine all powerful deity who appears to be little more than the equivalent of a New York City slum lord if in fact he exists at all. He seems utterly content to sit back and watch people kill, rape, torture and starve each other in his name. Somehow this is viewed to benevolent and wise because this book says so. Who wrote the book? Who knows or why. We know it's been rewritten lots of times, who knows or why.

That sad and scary part is a more telling question...who cares? None of them seem to as they have at each other in processes that basically disregard every tenet and principle of the book they all keep pointing too and thumping to validate the violence and politics that lead to it.

No one can solve the dispute and no one of the three factions is really inclined to because no one can authoritatively convince the other two that their book is more correct than the other guys.

They just keep pointing to their book and thumping on the book and saying the book says!

This thread is in fact about a book that validates another book. See this book says that what this book says is right, and you are wrong if you don't believe this book and that book!

Personally I don't care what the book says! I don't care what anyone who says the book is important or not important has to say about the book or why we should like and agree with the book or hate and disagree with the book. I don't really care who says what in regards to the history that people try to twist to support their conclusions that they then imagine validates their actions for what they do.

I actually really care about what people do. The facts of what people do speak for themselves. If you pull out a gun and shoot me the facts speak for themselves. I have a hole in my now, I don't care what you say or write about in a book to justify, excuse, explain, validate or promote shooting me. I care about the facts of your actions and of course the hole the gun shot left in me. I have no doubt someone will spin a book that says I deserved the hole in me and it had to be done, I have no doubt someone else will make money by writing another book or starting another movement that says no it was wrong to put a hole in me.

I care about what people do and not what they say, and well it's a little nuts to say the least to run around killing people, stealing land, making people homeless and initiate wars over a book the invisible man bad slum lord is attributed to authoring. Yeah, yeah I know he will stop by after we get all this mess cleaned up like the book says we should.

I can tell you this, if I steal my neighbors house, kill him, rob his possessions their isn't a judge in the United States who is going to let me off because the Bible somehow can be interpreted in my eyes to justify it.

Why we let entire nations get away with nonsense like that is really nuts when we wouldn't let any individual get away with it.

I care about what people do not what they say. People say lots of things that they don't mean or believe and turn around and prove it by their actions.

People in these cults that sprang up out of the Middle East all based on the Hebrew G-d and all arguing over what he said and who is good and bad or right and wrong say all kinds of nonsense to justify their bad actions.

Hint for anyone who wants peace. It can be had by getting to know and love your neighbor and enemies, not by thumping a book and killing them because they don't agree with the book.

Talk to them, share with them, love them, treat them with kindness and respect and chances are they won't care which book you read or how you interpret it.

Israel and even possibly Iran would each spend billions of dollars killing each other in a futile attempt to eliminate each other or force the other to accept their book.

Here is a novel idea, spend a 2 million dollars Iran on donating a public Library or two stuffed full of rare first edition books to Israel and some nice works of Persian art.

Israel spend a couple million dollars donating a public Library or two stuffed full of rare first edition books to Iran and some nice works of Jewish Art.

Have some tea, coffee and baklava together while you are thanking one another. Pull out your wallet and show each other a picture of your kids, then talk about why you like your Mercedes better and listen to why they love their Toyota, and rather than tell them they are wrong, say you know what, the next time I am ready to buy a car I will try one of those first and take it for a test drive, you know just in case you are right.

I guess their aren't any common sense how to make peace books on the market?

Words do not equal actions. Actions speak for themselves.

No one wants to admit they are acting poorly even though we all can see everyone is.

So they keep pointing to books to justify it.

At the end of the day all they are really trying to justify is nothing spiritual, progressive or loving, but putting holes in each other and destroying things.

It's a pretty sad state of affairs. There is not a book in the world that is ever going to justify it in my mind.

People just need to learn to get along and leave the silly books at home.

Love

Originally posted by MrPenny


It is very revealing to me that not a single poster in this thread bothered to see the irony in the description of "Manifest Destiny".....not one.

[edit on 13-3-2009 by MrPenny]

The Irony is America did it on their own. Israel only survives because our government robs the people of America and gives it to Israel to the tune of hundreds of billions in both money and weapons. I think most here on ATS are against what our country is doing in the form of all of its occupations in the ME, Asia, and Europe. Its not America's job to pay for Israel's "Manifest Destiny" with our money and our blood. Hows that for irony?

Germany was not rallied together to hate Jews because of a world conspiracy. They were rallied together because their Nation had gone bankrupt because of Rothschild counting houses.

Although it was the Sephardic who ended up taking the punishment and the actual culprits got away with what they did, and still do.

Originally posted by PGTWEED
A Zionist can be Jewish or Non-Jewish. Zionism in both the Ancient and Modern definitions is a love for the Land of Israel and the People of Israel and the Jewish Faith. G-D chose the Jewish Nation to be a light unto the Gentile Nations. Anyone who supports the outlandish conspiracy theory that the Jews secretly run the world is a bigger idiot than the idiot that first started the conspiracy theory.

What a wonderful quote from someone who probably doesn't understand Fractional Reserve Banking.

Your Country is not yours, your property does not belong to you, it is owned by Bankers.

Take out another loan