Healthcare is 'a privilege...not a right': GOP lawmaker

Originally posted by dawnstar


there is no justice in the current system....

I agree, our system sucks..... but so does anything the government touches. So do you really think a system under them will be better? Or how about a free market system that is not based on extremely inflated costs set by our government, insurance companies and healthcare without the consumer having any roll in the process at all.

God you Americans, join the rest of the civilized world. Free health care is essential to have a strong and healthy population. Free health care = healthier people = less sick days = increased national productivity = stronger economy. It pays for its self. Your so scared of change that you won't even change for the better and where has it got you? Your economy is failing, your country is falling apart and it's all due to your own pig headed ignorance.

/rant off

reply to post by Aaron_Justin

well, since my taxes are so insignificant, guess
the government won't mind me not paying them, heck they shouldn't even notice, should they? and well, even if they did, I imagine they will be too busy fighting the Swiss banks for the records of those much weathier tax evaders out there!

there a story in the bible about a widow who came to the temple to give offerings, the were others there who were giving also, some a great amount of money...
or at least the story goes something like that...
well, the widow came and gave her offering, one little lone coin...
christ said that out of all those who had given, she had given the most....
hmm...wonder why he would have said that....oh ya, that was all she had period!

what is insignificant to you could make a world of difference to someone else. I know I didn't qualify for anything, once the doctor set up the operation (after great encouragement from the legislature I believe) and the operation was scheduled and all, their caseworker came in and filled out the paperwork...I wasn't eligible, I got stuck with over $20,000 in medical bills....heck, I didn't even have an income, but well, they had no problem with pointing to my husband's and acting as it was mine to do with what I wanted.
tell ya something, whatever portion my taxmoney is going into the healthcare system, and well, you had better include the property taxes, the sales taxes, many of the local and state fees like driver lisences, well, you have to had a portion of that also, because at the time, the state and country goverments were hiking up to compensate for the fact that bush shortchanged them on the medicaid/medicare funds, so he could afford to give out those nice tax breaks! (if I remember right my family ended up paying more than we did the year before somehow). and, you would also have to include all that money that is going into research, training, and such also!
well, considering that I sometimes found myself keeping my son home from school till payday just so he could have that extra inhaler at school in case he needed it, and well, they don't cost a whole hell of alot, well, I am sorry, but I think that your insignificant may just be significant to me!! add to that the inflationary effect the government's involvement has within the healthcare system, and yes, I think you have a significant problem here!
such a significant injustice, that well, two wrongs don't make a right, but by god, the situation do should be corrected!! like I keep saying either take the money out of the healthcare system, or make an honest effort to ensure everyone who truly needs healthcare gets it...
and don't tell me my family could afford the cost of insurance....I know, for a fact, that my family, after taxes were taken out, had less available resources than any single mom in my county that had the same family size with no disposable income was being given! as far as I am concerned, the government accepted this as the amount necessary to provide for a family that size. therefore, my family didn't have the income necessary to provide for the family! somewhere, help should have been available to make up this difference! it wasn't!! what, would you have preferred we had the healthcare, but no roof over our heads, or no food to eat? seems to me that the result would have been worse...since, well, then we would all be sick and in need of the healthcare much more...

the latest article I read put the income of those who are now being affect at around $40 to $60 thousand dollars. when my kids were small, I'd guess it was around the $20,000 or so....so, well, ya, let's not do anything about this problem till it hits those $250,000 rich folks out there and well, then we can all listen to them whine! in the meantime, all you $40,000 to $60,000 earners out there, ain't it nice to know that the republican party thinks that your tax contribution is insignificant?
heck, I wish we'd all decide just not to pay it come this april, and well, let's see how insignificant it really is!

reply to post by Xtrozero

I want the healthcare system I grew up with, where the doctor lived in your neighborhood, the pharmacy was in his cellar, and no he didn't have all that great medical technology there is today, but well, he didn't have a problem doing what he could early in the morning when I came in to pick up his daughter in school and said I felt ill when he asked me how I was! and to tell you the truth, I think I got better care from that doctor and his outdated medical practices and herbal early morning remedies than I have gotten in the past 30 or so years!
I honestly don't care which was it goes. I just know that if it keeps going the way it is, in a year or so, we will be looking a $60,000 to $70,000, then it will be $70,000 to $80,000 then on and on till and at each progression, more and more will find they are just out of the loop till well, the majority will be out of the loop, but paying for the whole mess, while a select few....the rich and their chosen pets, will be enjoying the benefits.

The idea that health care is a privilege is certainly sick. The problem with american health care although very very good is that someone discovered there was money in it.

Originally posted by ivzm
Free health care = ....

Free health care? That's funny. Tell me, how did you get them doctors to work for free? And, how do them doctors pay their living expenses if they are working for free? And, have any of them ever tried to escape .. yet?

And, this CHANGE thing you say we're afraid of. Well frankly, I couldn't care any less if other want change, or socialism, or whatever. Just LEAVE me out of it. I'm happy the way things are right now, in so far as my life is concerned. I don't NEED change.

Say, why not make socialism optional? Why should one camp be able to FORCE their beliefs and ideals upon the other? THAT is what I really object to. I'm not really against those that want to be socialists, I'm just upset that they think they need ME in order to make their little game work for them. Why don't the folks that want socialism go play socialism among themselves and leave those that don't want to play that game alone?

Sorry, but I am not here to service and provide your needs and wants or anyone else's needs or wants. Your RIGHTS better not enslave me, if ya'll know what's good for ya'll!!! Playing socialism should NOT be mandatory.

reply to post by wolf241e


The goverment ensuring the survival of its citizens means we have a right to be protected. Is health care not under that protection as well?

Just like we have a right to be protected, the police and firemen come to our homes to keep us safe. Now imagine, without this socialist idea, every time you had to call 911, the 911 operator would first ask you for your bank account routing number, and then the 911 operator would then tell you to wait so that the police/firemen could see if you had enough in your account, for them to give you their service. If you didn't have enough money, the operator would then hang up on you, and you wouldn't get service.

Is that how it should work?

reply to post by Divinorumus


If your doc is contracted to provide service with any payer (Aetna, Medicare, the Blues, UHC etc.), the office either jumped through a very big series of CYA hoops and documentation or committed a fraud by reducing the rate. Now, sometimes after a delinquent account goes to collections there may be a settlement.

I'm speaking as not only the wife of a doc but as an experienced financial manager in a bustling med. eqip. company. On top of that, I've a family member (doc) who fled the country after being targeted for fraud for the very issue I'm speaking of. (You can't accept tomatoes, auto repair or yard work in lieu of cash for patient portions- it's only called price fixing then, not when the government does it.)

IOW, don't ever share your doctor's name publicly...

edit to add: Dallas area anesthesiologists were fed up with third party payers and dropped their contracts as a large group. After a minor surgery I was billed for the full amount- the insurance repricing does not hold in that sort of case. The docs were able to sort out a reduction because they were non-par with my insurer. It goes back to the point I was making about changing the way docs do business with the insurers. It's an idea both behind and ahead of its time but only a few docs have the courage to sign on. That may be changing though as more and more are changing thought patterns...


[edit on 6-3-2009 by micheshi]

reply to post by LoneGunMan

If we were in a defensive only position instead of a ready to invade position we could have free healthcare without an increase in taxes. This is a fact and I know military strategy. With our nuclear submarine capability alone keeps all nations at arms length coupled with our geographical position we are able to shrink the size of our military to a stand ready to assemble position for a fraction of what we are spending.

I've been thinking something along the same lines.

Our tax dollars are spent to kill people and have been for decades.

Yet, there's all this uproar over providing a basic human need: medical care.

Ironic.

Kill people due to the propaganda that's fed us and pay for those killings/murders, but by all means... let's make sure people's health care isn't provided for.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Now imagine, without this socialist idea, every time you had to call 911, the 911 operator would first ask you for your bank account routing number, and then the 911 operator would then tell you to wait so that the police/firemen could see if you had enough in your account, for them to give you their service.

If we didn't have to pay taxes, we would probably have that money in the bank (except for those that would have spent it on more iPods, home entertainment centers, beer, tobacco, and crack, ha).

This is a good idea --- paying for the service YOU actually use. I like this idea a LOT. I bet I'd be a lot better off if I was charged for the services I actually used than having to pay these crazy tax rates to provide for 911 services for that crazy family down the road where the cops are having to keep showing up every month to break up some insane domestic family cat and dog fight.

And, with such an idea, competition could come into play. We'd have the option of call 911, or 811, or 711, or whomever were offering the best going rates for the services I might happen to need one day.

Yup, this is a good idea. You should take that idea and run for some political office, ha, I'll vote for you.

Ya know, holding people accountable for the expenses THEY incur might bring back some personal responsibility too. I have health insurance now, but when I didn't, I took extra good care of myself. Now that I have health insurance, I suppose I could give up daily exercise and start eating like a pig, knowing that YOU will have to pay for my irresponsibility and my mismanagement of my life.

Originally posted by micheshi
reply to post by Divinorumus

 

If your doc is contracted to provide service with any payer (Aetna, Medicare, the Blues, UHC etc.), the office either jumped through a very big series of CYA hoops and documentation or committed a fraud by reducing the rate. Now, sometimes after a delinquent account goes to collections there may be a settlement.

Nope, I was on the phone as soon as those bills started showing up negotiating a rate reduction. Take for example the hospital bill. They are a big hospital and accept all those above mentioned insurance programs. And, I have a bill that I can photograph and show you where it specifically STATES right there on the bill: 48% uninsured discount! Really, it says that right on the bill, and shows the discounted amount subtracted from the total. I can prove it if necessary. In fact I have two different hospital bills showing the discount, because the first hospital had to transfer me to another where they had better doctors to deal with a horrible lung infection that almost killed me.

reply to post by Blanca Rose


To everyone talking about costs, like the cost of an aspirin...most of that cost is to pay for staffing for processing the excessive documentation required by the insane amount of regulation that exists. Yes, there is some outright thievery. But if we would get the government out of healthcare, the free market would take care of that, in the long run. Open competition strangles price-gouging, unless there is price fixing.

In terms of the overall point of the thread, of course healthcare isnt a right, as the lawmaker stated. That's insane. He just happened to be on MSNBC. aka Moronic Sycophants Now Broadcasting Communism, or else the anchor would have considered it a non-issue. Nothing to see here, really. MSNBC is in no way news, so it really isn't relevant. They are about as much news as Rush Limbaugh, and I dont see anyone here acting like he's too big of a deal, in the big picture.

Originally posted by skeptic1
reply to post by wolf241e

 

Healthcare is not a right. It never has been.

I honestly don't know where the sense of entitlement in this country has come from. It sure wasn't there during my grandparents' generation and it was barely there during my parents' generation.

It is sad that so many now feel entitled to things that prior generations have worked hard to earn and afford.

We are living amongst many that believe in something for nothing additude, you owe me, I have the right, and let the government pay for it mentality generation. The only way of stopping this, you owe me mentality is We The Workers and individuals paying taxes let our voices be heard by organizing and this is happening faster then you think.

Why should 92% of the individuals that are current on their mortgage payments be responsible for paying the mortgages of the 8% who in many cases falsified their loan applications to obtain a mortgage loan in the first place? Why should the millions and millions of individuals that work hard to pay for their family's healthcare have to pay for everyone else's healthcare in this country that does not have health care.? Let me ask a question does anyone know of any person being of legal or nonlegal citizen status that was refused health care in this country today? I have not.

The slight majority voted for change because it sounded good and they had no idea or clue that this change would be socialism or communism. All they heard was the word change without questioning what the word change meant.

Many citizens of the U.S. have finally woke up and are taking a verbal opposition and stand against ruining this nation by taking We The People into socialism or in other words the government will take care of you program. This is all compliments of the Obama administration who is strategically taking our capitalistic free enterprise system and country apart piece by piece. Look at the stock market since he took office and the Trillions of dollars being lost in retirement programs and pention funds. Obama knows what to do to turn things around but for him it is all about control, control, more government control and Nationalization of our banks and corporations. Father forgive him for he knows what he is doing unto We The People.

We are a great Nation with the majority being Great people and Lets not let one man and one administration destroy what took over 200 years of blood, sweat, hard work and tears to build with out this administration hearing our voices in opposition.

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by spaznational

 

well, if I am unable to afford the care....why should my tax dollars be going into the research to develope your drugs and state of the art medical treatments?

this cuts both ways!!

Actually, I'm already paying for your health care in a way. You can get help in any E.R. for free. The cost is just transferred to the paying customers via insurance.

And I never said the government (AKA taxpayers) should be going into research. There should be no corporate welfare. The problem is they (government) keeps pushing the envelope... fund this, fund that, assist this disadvantaged group, assist that disadvantaged group... little by little they get their tentacles into every aspect of our lives which equally erodes our freedoms. Then you reach the point where YOU honestly believe that the government (AKA everyone else but you) is responsible for your own personal health concerns. It started out innocently and benevolently, I'm sure, as public schooling and assistance for truly needy people, but has continued to grow as they push the envelope.

So, after health care, what's next? Probably government-paid college tuition. Certainly electricity is a necessity of modern life, so why not have them pay our electric bills? Throw in some free internet too. Wow it sucks to buy gasoline but I need it to get to work... how about the government pays for that for me too? Because, after all, I need to drive to be a productive citizen (read: slave) just like I need to be healthy.

And when I get old and retire and am no longer a producer, perhaps I will need surgery to help prolong my old life. No, these medical resources are most cost-efficient and have a higher return-on-investment for a 20-year-old. After all, my productive period is over, so the government should just let me die... anyway it is their choice to make because they own me.

reply to post by Divinorumus


I don't need any proof- you seem like a perfectly reasonable person and while my experience indicates a much different scenario, I'll have to concede that I left the field to be a parasite feeding upon my husband. (recently but health care regs do change quickly) Maybe there's also something regional in play, I'm not sure.


Whatever the case, good for you for negotiating and working it out to a fair solution for both yourself and your provider of care. I'd be a liar if I didn't admit to shopping around for a good provider, asking about balance billing policies (for non-contracted providers) and even asking for a professional courtesy discount.

edit to ask: I certainly don't wish to know your business but is there any chance that you were at teaching hospitals?

[edit on 6-3-2009 by micheshi]

Insurance companies.

My son broke his toe and the bone got infected. He was put in ICU on high powered AB drip for a week. We were warned that he may lose the big toe. Happy ending.

Hospitals

Anyway the insurer claimed the care was not warranted. WHAT? Oh yea. The hospital would not go to bat for us. The hospital ended up taking us to court for 10 large!

Employer

The department at work that handles these things was no help at all. They just caved right in to the insurance companies threats to raise rates.

Victim

Joe send your son to war taxpaying 40 hour a week blue collar guy unable to defend himself. AND STILL PAYING PREMIUMS!


THIS # HAPPENS ALL THE TIME!

America the raped nation, everybody has made money out of this nation and now we are bankrupted.

First we as a nation rank 36 when it comes to quality health care.

Second we don't even have health care for all the citizens.

Third we spend more in health care programs that any civilized nation.

Still we don't even are number one in the world.

Why is that?

Because America is a milking cow for all those private interest that profit from the tax payer on one side while gouging the tax payer from the other.

Incredible if any body agrees that this right and that is what we deserve.



[edit on 6-3-2009 by marg6043]

Originally posted by micheshi
edit to ask: I certainly don't wish to know your business but is there any chance that you were at teaching hospitals?

Nope. Knowing that the world was going to come to an end before I actually reach the normal retirement age, I decided to retire back in 1996 after I had turned 39. Thus why I had no health insurance. I have always had good health and exercise almost daily and take good care of myself, and so I though the risk was worth the potential savings. And, even after having to pay dang near $40k for that freak infection (which filled my lungs with a green goop), I figure I'm still ahead of the game after those 13 years.

Because I have no "income" (although I do have significant net worth), I discovered that I could get health insurance pretty cheap now (they based their rates on your income and didn't even ask about net worth, ha, go figure). My guess is that this discount health insurance program was probably created for divorced mothers with children and that were living in half-million dollar homes they got out of their divorce (thus why the application didn't even ask one question about net worth - it was only interested in CURRENT income .. which of course a retired person hasn't any unless they are of course earning interest or dividends on their savings). Crazy, that someone with enough net worth that could afford to pay full priced premiums can get full medical coverage for $80 a month, but that is the way it worked, and they were more than happy to sign me up .. so I am taking advantage of it, although I'll probably never need it and haven't used it at all since I signed up last summer. Heck, they didn't even ask about any pre-existing medical issues (which I have none). I would have signed up for this long ago had I known about this program. Imagine, you could have a net worth of billions and so long as you have no actual income to report, you can get health insurance for damn near nothing here in Minnesota, $80 a month is pocket change.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by Divinorumus]

Originally posted by ivzm
God you Americans, join the rest of the civilized world. Free health care is essential to have a strong and healthy population. Free health care = healthier people = less sick days = increased national productivity = stronger economy. It pays for its self. Your so scared of change that you won't even change for the better and where has it got you? Your economy is failing, your country is falling apart and it's all due to your own pig headed ignorance.

/rant off

Thats about the bare bones of it...

By all means carry on using a system that keeps you in $000's of medical debt for treatment requiring even a minor stay in hospital, whilst living in fear of any 'socialialist' ideology, no skin off my nose (which I'll recieve national health treatment for if need be)

Just make sure you dont slip and hurt yourself whilst out protesting that your government is shafting you royally for every cent

HEALTHCARE? I think the people in the healthcare business should get into some other type of business and let the Doctors run the show.

Keep the same infrastructure, get rid of the Hospital Admin field, let the Doctors buy and run them and only Doctors run them and get rid of the damn bloodsucking insurance companies. Big Pharma has got to be toned way down as well.

If doctors ran the healthcare industry, everyone pooled money into a unit or account ran by doctors, I think everyone would be just fine.

The insurance companies and drug companies have made the mess of the healthcare system. If you take them out, the mess get cleaned up and the hospital keeps going.

This could be done and it would keep gov't out of the picture.