The SUSPENSION of illicit drugs/mind altering substance topics on ATS (The experiment failed)

reply to post by Heike


That is a pretty disgusting generalization, I must say. But you are entitled to your opinion.

It is this kind of post that leads to angers flaring up and these kinds of decisions being made. Are you trying to get people riled up?

The whole point is this- HAVE AN OPEN MIND. This allows for self preservation by being able to gain new knowledge instead of being stuck in the same old ideas. It also allows for discussions to happen and not arguments.

Really think about it.

reply to post by Heike


Heike you are my friend but I need to say this.

This is precisely the kind of post, as it relates to illicit/illegal substances, that we are attempting to preserve in some mutually agreed manner, on this board.

But for the effort of a few and the willingness of SO, despite his original instinct, such a quality post as is yours would have never seen the light of day if all conversation was muted.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by Reddupo

 

Also this acting like 24 hours is enough to let other members in on this discussion. Come on now. People have lives and jobs.

There are two groups ATS is split into right now (for the purpose of talking about policy). One group doesn't want drugs to be discussed. One wants to be able to. We're just trying to figure out how we can satisfy group 2 without disrupting group 1.

The vote taking place here just decides a small committee to present an idea that has been formulated by many different people's contributions. We are not picking representatives, and hopefully the DISC committee will remain open to everyone else for discussing ideas.

A small group of 6 is much easier to handle for the open-eared staff than a discussion thread with 500 new posts per day. The discussion will remain open, but we need some messengers so the staff can be effective. For expediency and efficiency we are selecting (from a very fine group of individuals) the messengers of the people, not any big decisions.

Originally posted by Heike

I'm more disgusted today with the general membership of ATS - and incidentally with the staff who couldn't even be bothered to say a word in defense of the rest of us "crazy crackpots" who might actually think there's a government coverup about extraterrestrials and that it might be important, or that another cryptid besides the giant squid might be real - than I have ever been in the 8 months or so that I've been here.

Maybe we were just practicing not feeding the trolls

The posts in this thread that are nasty or snide to people who are interested in other ATS topics and not mind-altering substances are relatively few compared to the posts trying to express valid views either on the new rule, or on how to decide the composition of a committee to try to find a way to allow legitimate talk about illegal drugs - say the use of '___' in MK Ultra, or financing of the CIA through drug money.

reply to post by Heike


Don't be so simplistic. Look, I can only speak for myself, but I very likely would not be alive today were it not for my great state allowing me to legally use marijuana medicinally. That makes it a pretty frakkin' real topic to me.

Planet Niburu and the reptilian overlords may very well directly affect your life to a greater extent than drug use, abuse, related crime and conspiracy, including the "war on drugs", but for the other 100% of the population, drugs, in some way, have had a much greater direct affect on their lives than the coming of Zorgon and the golganaughts.

reply to post by GreyFoxSolid


1) If you don't like what I said, remember that the only reason I bothered to come and say it is because a dozen or so posts near the beginning of this thread insulted, belittled, and ridiculed ME (I'm one of those "crackpots" who has seen a UFO).

2) If you want to show me (and everyone) how wrong I am, just give me one GOOD reason (other than any "medical" reason like chronic pain management) for taking any mind/mood-altering substance.

3) And if you can't do that, then I'm right so now - what's your point?

Originally posted by 27jd
Guess I shoulda been more clear, the ownership above you guys.

There is none.

You guys clearly see green, the way i see it, and that is your right.

You are wrong.

Like I said, I believe this site to have been bought out by the conspirators, who now have say in what is discussed.

And your substantiation for insulting myself, Spring, Simon, and all other staff is... what? Please, what facts do you have?

reply to post by Heike


You obviously don't have, nor have ever experienced chronic pain to any extent. And if you think pain management is the extent of the medicinal properties these substances have to offer, then you are truly incapable of offering any worthwhile contribution to the subject, and should stick to the topics you have a minimum of knowledge in.

reply to post by Unit541


Hey, thanks for proving my point there Unit. I didn't say Nibiru or reptilians, I said I've seen a UFO and guess what, they're as real to me as your drugs are to you.

You have a prescription to use something for medicinal purposes? Great. So do I, for a narcotic to deal with the pain from a badly sprained ankle. But what is the purpose or reason for people who don't have a medical condition to need to be able to use such things? There isn't one.

Originally posted by Unit541

Originally posted by Blaine91555
At a time when the REAL Topics here need public attention you would remove the credibility of ATS?

Please go back about 50 pages to see just how lame your "real" topic argument is. Funny, I've never seen anyone who's been a member for so long do such a good troll imitation. Or have you been imitating for 5 years?

Discussing drugs means that much to you?

I'm imitating nothing. I've mentioned many times here about my former drug addiction. I know this topic far better than the potheads and mushroom junkies who have ruined RATS. I've seen so many lives ruined it sickens me. I've woken up in a gutter with a needle still sticking in my arm with no idea how I got there. Have you?

My liver is nearly gone and I will likely die before many more years pass. I can not get on a list for a new liver and won't ever be able to. All because of my relationship with drugs. If anyone has an honest view it is me. I have lost many friends to drugs. I am not the one with blinders on.

I'll stay out of this discussion. You should give this more time though to let more members give their opinions. One day is ridiculous. Don't you think people with jobs and lives have a right to participate as well?

reply to post by Heike

I'm more disgusted today with the general membership of ATS - and incidentally with the staff who couldn't even be bothered to say a word in defense of the rest of us "crazy crackpots" who might actually think there's a government coverup about extraterrestrials and that it might be important, or that another cryptid besides the giant squid might be real - than I have ever been in the 8 months or so that I've been here.

Wow, how you wrong you are good sir.

I have to say, i feel the total opposite of you at this moment. Me and other members on this forum are working toward the greater good. The staff has given us a chance to do this. I am going to assume you did not read the updates.

Originally posted by GreyFoxSolid
It is this kind of post that leads to angers flaring up and these kinds of decisions being made.

No, what led to a decision being made are people who cannot follow the rules. The rules regarding drug discussion are self-explanatory. If it doesn't contribute anything to the discussion at hand, DON'T EVEN MENTION THEM... It's simple. To me, people are making a simple concept into a complex one.

[edit on 26-2-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by Blaine91555

I'll stay out of this discussion. You should give this more time though to let more members give their opinions. One day is ridiculous. Don't you think people with jobs and lives have a right to participate as well?

this was not the opinion of SkepticOverlord, if you read his updates to this thread. To do so, just find any one of his posts and hit the "thread" button at the bottom.

He seemed to feel that it was a good idea to get this committee off the ground quickly.

I personally would have liked more time to be taken, but that's not the way it was.

Whoever ends up on the DISC committee, however, will have a job and a half trying to figure out how to get valid discussion back onto ATS at this point anyway; and I'm sure that they will be open to any input from any member who has views on the matter.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Okay Schro I see your point .. but the thing is, most of the people who have viewpoints like mine stay out of those threads, don't they? So they aren't going to get my viewpoint. Knowing that I despise "recreational drugs" for all the harm they do to everyone, the users, the families, and the innocent victims, why go someplace where I'm guaranteed to be hated for my point of view?

And to whoever said I don't have any experience, it's you who don't know what you're talking about. I have plenty of experience from my younger days, and those experiences are partly what's led me to the opinion I have today.

There is no need for the continued fighting my friends.

We are working on electing a panel that will brainstorm ideas to keep discussing certain topics on ATS.

If that panel is unsuccessful in coming up with workable ideas, then the topics will be permanently banned as was initially intended.

There is nothing more we can do at this point other than wait and see what we can come up with.

The continued bickering is only proving the amigo's point.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I never said it was a fact, I said it was my belief. I base it on my understanding of how just about anybody in a business that expands changes as the money starts coming in. This site has changed since I joined, and I'm well aware I can like it or leave it. I also believe the filter concerns are more geared towards advertiser concerns about their ads being seen by more viewers, but how can you have a mainstream, PC conspiracy site?? I also believe you have a personal dislike or annoyance with "druggies" as you call them, but like I said, they are probably the majority of your regular posters.

edit: if i'm wrong, i apologize

[edit on 26-2-2009 by 27jd]

Originally posted by Heike
reply to post by GreyFoxSolid

 

1) If you don't like what I said, remember that the only reason I bothered to come and say it is because a dozen or so posts near the beginning of this thread insulted, belittled, and ridiculed ME (I'm one of those "crackpots" who has seen a UFO).

2) If you want to show me (and everyone) how wrong I am, just give me one GOOD reason (other than any "medical" reason like chronic pain management) for taking any mind/mood-altering substance.

3) And if you can't do that, then I'm right so now - what's your point?

As for all things, we all create our own reasons to do whatever you want. What reason do you have for thinking there are no other reasons aside from medicinal uses? We could play the personal perspective game all day long. But to directly respond to you-

1.) Most of the UFO threads I see don't bash anyone. We are here on this kind of site because we have reasons to look into alternative topics. I am sorry you were bashed, but bashing others for their own personal beliefs is only going to get you bashed more.

2.) I can relate this to why I smoke cigarettes. I like how the smoke feels in my lungs and the kind of mental stimulation it can provide. I am sure that some people who use hallucinogens and certain herbs are just using it to escape, but that is their good reason. A lot of people also use these things spiritually because they believe it can connect them to the unseen. Like a radio and radio waves. That is their good reason.

3.) I am afraid I can't understand question number three.

reply to post by Heike


Are you over 21? do you drink?

And don't even try to compare a sprained ankle to the chronic pain experienced by those that turn to medicinal marijuana for relief. Get yourself a candle, and place your sprained ankle about an inch and a half above the flame. Now hold it there 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, indefinitely. See if you can take enough narcotics (chemical poison rather) to make it manageable without debilitating you with side effects.

The posts you speak about, that lead to you participate in this thread in the first place are simply defensive rhetoric designed to point out a flaw in the logic of the "real" topic concept. No topic is more, or less valid than another. I'm a UFO guy too, and spend a couple hours a night just staring at the sky. The point is, the topic of drugs, illegal or not, is just as important as any other topic, and those who choose to participate in such discussions, take great offense when it's implied that topics about bat headed babies and reptilian overlords. See how you felt when your topic of choice was belittled? You just did the same thing, only you fired the shots long after the ceasefire.

reply to post by nyk537


There's really no need to argue at all. I will get worked out.. I think that it is necessary to mention drug use in some instances. I am certainly not in favor of banning the topic atogether. On the other hand, I can certainly see where Heike, Blaine and SO are coming from.

reply to post by nyk537


I agree, there is no point in fighting. Whatever the outcome is, we tried.

We Tried.

and in the end, it was better than doing nothing.