The SUSPENSION of illicit drugs/mind altering substance topics on ATS (The experiment failed)

After much thought, much discussion among the staff, and a FAILED, many month long, experiment to see if these topics could be discussed in a mature, "NO user story" manner, ANY discussion of illegal drugs or mind altering substances (even if they are legal in your country, state, province, county or city) ends today, Wednesday 25 February, 2009 at the time of this post.

The ability to continue to provide our members with a huge venue upon which they can express and challenge their own theories, or the theories of others, exchange information with their peers on the thousands of other topics welcomed here, is far, far more important than risking it all over a handful of topics that are covered in a much better way on other sites, set up specifically for them.

As many have pointed out there are dozens (if not hundreds) of sites where those who are truly concerned about the laws and conspiracies relative to the cloudy realm that is illicit drugs could spend their time and quite possibly do some GOOD for their "cause".

We invite those who seek to discuss illicit drugs or mood altering substances to search these sites out because the topics will no longer be tolerated here, on AboveTopSecret.com or any of The Above Network, LLC properties.


Shortly after our failed experiment began, we noticed an increase in the number of people who seek only disruption, use insults and immature, snide remarks when interacting their fellow members.

It is sadly no coincidence that the number of complaints, and even threads in this forum, about incivility and immaturity rose in number while our failed experiment ran its course. The data shows these topics attract a type of user that is simply not wanted here and detracts from the thousands of interesting and important discussions that happen here everyday.

It has become obvious (again) that any discussion of illegal drugs, whether it's about the laws that make them illegal being wrong headed or the conspiracy that created the laws in the first place, simply can not be discussed here without the inevitable divergence into user stories, which are, have always been and will always be against the TAC of this site.

Effective immediately we are implementing a ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY on the discussion of illicit/illegal drugs, or the improper use of anything to achieve a mind altering state. This includes any and all "conspiracies", "laws", efforts to legalize, etc...

In short if a topic has anything to do with illegal drugs, or the misuse of any substance to achieve a mind altering state, it is not welcome on ATS.

The Zero Tolerance Policy is as follows:

first offense = post deletion and red tag warning/points deduction.

second offense = instant Post Ban and Account Review for possible permanent ban.

third offense = permanent ban of account

Please don't waste your time or ours trying to "negotiate" with us on this.

We know the vast, quiet, civil majority of our members come here for the discussion of the topics that made ATS the number one alternative topics discussion site on the internet, the subject of illegal drugs and stories of being intoxicated were never part of that.

If you feel the need to call out the corruption of the "War on Drugs", accurately define the benefits of Hemp, etc... Please utilize one of the many sites created for those purposes, I am confident they will appreciate your support.

Springer...




UPDATE



UPDATE 2




FINAL TOPIC UPDATE: PLEASE READ

The New ATS Policy on Drug-Related Topics.
1- New Forum
2- 200 Post Minimum
3- Absolutely no personal use discussion
4- Instant ban for discussing personal use








Summary Of This Thread. Please Read Prior To Commenting Here.

[edit on 26-2-2009 by SkepticOverlord]

Thread title changed.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by SkepticOverlord]

Are we time slipping? I could swear I already read this and said something about denying ignorance which is what everyone could do. We want facts, not anecdotes folks.

Sad it's come to this, but then again it was inevitable.

The discussion of drugs in any aspect always leads to a violation of the T&C in some way, and some people just never got it.

Now we'll have to deal with the complaints of censorship for a few days, but it will be worth it.

Good move.

ANY discussion of illegal drugs or mind altering substances (even if they are legal in your country, state, province, county or city) ends today

no more beer or prozac discussion then? nice. does flouride count as mind altering?

a great day for ATS, enjoy enforcing this one guys.

I belive the motto should be changed.

"Deny ingnorance unless your ignorance stems from anything to do with illegal drugs, in which case we encourage you to embrace ignorance"

It's al little long but we'll all get used to it. This is actually funny to me.
It is like being in school or something. We aren't allowed to cuss,or talk about certain things,be mean, etc.

Do you people see now how easy it is for governments to get out of controll??? Everyone dreams of a Utopian world where we can all live in peace but it cannot happen. People will never be free to express themselves in the manner they see fit. You will ALWAYS have someone standing over your shoulder breathing down your neck making sure you do as you're told.

If a crappy little web site can't ensure your freedom of speech then how in the hell are entire countries supposed to do it???

This is a welcome policy.

I'd long since given up trying to discuss this topic on ATS, as every single thread, whether about the laws, arrest rates, conspiracies or whatever ended up with some doofus ruining the thread by insisting on talking about whatever he/she happened to be imbibing.

There have been scores of intelligent well reasoned articles that I have wanted to discuss here, but instead have discussed in RL with friends because trying to discuss them here was pointless - the threads always ended up the same way, with some stoner trying to preach to the rest of us and tell us of his/her great experiences.

Well we now have clarity and I welcome it and the zero tolerance.

Hopefully, this will raise the bar a notch or two and we can get back to doing what ATS does best without immature sniping at the mods and owners for trying to help people NOT get banned.

Like the man said - there's plenty of other sites where it's acceptable, go find them.

I don't come here to read about someones experiences with controlled substances, and I know many others feel the same way.

Doubtless some will start railing that freedom of speech is being suppressed etc etc
To them I say READ THE T&C.

ATS is not a country, or the UN - what we have here is given us by the hard work of the owners and staff and the majority of the members, and if they want to ban all talk of this, then good.

It might wake some people up, or at least cull the herd a bit.

Sorry for the rant, but I have had this particular bee in my bonnet for quite some time because some insist on spoiling things for the rest of us.

[edit on 25/2/2009 by budski]

Will these discussions still be allowed in RATS? Not necessarily personal drug use but drug-related conspiracies and laws? Or is it off of ATS completely, even the hidden forum? I stay away from drug discussions pretty much completely but it's one of those things I'd still like to know just in case.

[edit on 2/25/2009 by AshleyD]

They will no longer be permitted in RATS.

If you peak in the list of topped threads within RATS, there is a recent thread from Bill outlining the stance.

Man this sucks dude, censorship on ATS.

They sold (what was) this excellent site to some corporation cause they weren't making enough money. Now its become so filled with adds and stupid pop-ups its really hard to enjoy coming here anymore.

Oh well its a big internet so I guess I'll move on, I'll probably be banned for my name anyway.

Deny what again?

This is where I'd insert a rant if I had one.

I don't think you'll miss out on much my friend.

This is your first post in 3 years.

And you're dead wrong about ATS selling out....

Well, at least now we all know where we stand. Although, my perception of ATS has been significantly altered, at least now the staff won't need to resort to lame excuses to delete threads that in know way constituted a violation the T & C.

While we're clearing the air, can we please get a list of "mind altering substances" that we are allowed to talk about? Or can we not discuss things like fluoride in the water, food additives, vaccine conspiracy theory, or other prescription medications as they relate to conspiracy theory?

I detest the trolls as much as anyone else, but feel that it's they themselves that need to be censored rather than the entire thread in question.

By our very nature, the significant majority of members here seek to discover the logic behind just about everything. In this case though, we're missing several factors in the equation, because the logic just isn't there, and in this specific topic of discussion, the hypocrisy is astounding.

Very well though, I'll abide by this zero tolerance policy, which I feel is better than the "go ahead, but we'll delete your thread in a few minutes" policy that we had before.

reply to post by chissler


Ok, I see it. Stickied at the top. Usually the typical response is to purchase RATS access to discuss drug-related news stories and conspiracies but now I know not to use that advice anymore. Thanks for the quick reply.

Since this new strict policy is now in place perhaps it would be best to close or remove this thread from last month...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I assure you I had no ill intent when I posted that and I do not want the existance of that thread here to be a potential cause of problems with this policy in the future.

At least one member had a major problem with the subject and demanded that it be deleted.. The staff decided to leave it, though now if it gets any future responses it could cause problems.

I'm fine with whatever decision you make.

I wonder if we are allowed to discuss The '___' that was released by my pineal gland last night while I was asleep.
It is an illegal mind altering substance/drug, but,itis manufactured by my own body.
What to do?????Hmmmmm.

Man - that is some weak sauce...

Like we need another area of reactionary censorship in this world...




I've said it before and I'll say it again:

"The hallmark of a sentient being is it's ability to manipulate both it's external and internal environment."

No amount of manufactured moral outrage (or corrupt unconstitutional legislation) will ever change this fact - on this planet or the next.

I'm sorry it had to come to this, but I certainly understand and sympathize. If people would just read and follow the T&C, this wouldn't have to happen.

And this is why these things have to be spelled out.

Originally posted by pieman
no more beer or prozac discussion then? nice. does flouride count as mind altering?

Check the title of the thread. ..."illicit drugs/mind-altering substances"

The word illicit belongs to both drugs AND mind-altering substances. The phrase "illegal drugs or mind altering substances" could be expanded to "illegal drugs or illegal mind altering substances."

Are beer, prozac or fluoride illegal? No? Then they're ok.

Originally posted by outatime
If a crappy little web site can't ensure your freedom of speech then how in the hell are entire countries supposed to do it???

This "crappy little web site" does not ensure your freedom of speech. Where did you get such an idea? This is a privately owned website not your government, and freedom of speech is not guaranteed here. Clearly.

Freedom of Speech has, is, and will always be limited no matter what country you live in. When you agreed to the T+C of this site, you knew there are rules to abide by. Rules that limit what you can and can't say on this site, so why argue the point of freedom of speech.

I, for one, can abide by the new rule.

As a business owner, Springer made his call. I'm sure he didn't make this decision lightly.

The problem isn't with the business, it's with the forum users. There are too many divergent opinions amongst users.

However, because this isn't a cut and dry issue and will never be in western society, the headache's from the loads of complaint e-mails from both parties probably made the Board's collective head explode.

This is not a topic that *ultimately needs* a voice here.

We all know it's a *conspiracy*, and we all know it's only a conspiracy to those who feel conspired against, and those who are flag waving free speech 1st amendment gurus.

So in the best interest of the website, I agree. Do I like it, *meh* whatever, I didn't come here for drug talk myself. I just would comment on it once in awhile.

It's all going to come down to *cost* for ATS, the more time Springer and Board have to babysit on the drug topic, the less time they have to add to the quality of the current stated mission.

Time = Money *The End*

-ADHD

I am so high on life, I got a nose bleed.