The SUSPENSION of illicit drugs/mind altering substance topics on ATS (The experiment failed)

I could care less about discussion of drugs on this site... I was not aware of a problem until I saw this huge thread.

This reminds me of George Carlin's 7 words you can't say on TV

EDIT: Oops! you can't say those 7 words on this site either. sorry for the analogy.

I get it now

[edit on 25-2-2009 by Zarniwoop]

so we cant discuss the reason Pat Tillman was killed?

some conspiracy site LOL...

Will someone finally admit that the hidden agenda is financing the 'thrill' of talking about 'UFO's' or other strange conspiracy stuff by bowing down to corporate advertising dollars in the form of banner ads and the promise of 'traffic' through the website by disallowing drug related literature on the site.

By worshiping Mammon or the God of money, TPTB at ATS have placed themselves under whatever servitude the corporations of the world allows or disallows - because they want to maximize viewership according to demographics. That is what this site is actually serving now - it is commercial, which really has no business entertaining true conspiracies because anyone who can be bought for a price has wobbly knees.

Freedom of Speech can be bought and that is the truth ignorance is denying. Shame, shame, but even the real truth shall come out soon.

[edit on 26-2-2009 by ben91069]

I edited to remove my own post. (I didn't like the decision).

I posted as an initial response to the first page and then read about 15 pages in when the ATS owners started to respond that maybe a compromise of some sorts could be discussed by committee. The ban as far as I can tell still stands, but it's good to see they responded to the users who laid out well formed arguments against a total ban of drug discussion of any kind.

It'll be interesting to see how this turns out.

[edit on 26-2-2009 by harrytuttle]

reply to post by pieman


Yeah, alcohol is forbidden and illegal in Saudi Arabia. And alcohol is a mind altering substance so now I can't say I just enjoyed a great new beer here on ATS? Come on. Just what is the agenda here on denying ignorance? You deny ignorance and then go on to prove your ignorance.

hang on mind altering state? what about meditation isnt that an altered state of mind? astral projection? are these topics off the board too. what about banana skins i heard they can alter your mind? bananas are not illegal yet anyway.

there is waaaay too much grey area here. is it legality or the subject matter?

if its legality issue then the problem is huge because countries dont all have the same laws. if its subject matter well....... your going to have quite a few angry campers. the state of the mind is such a hot topic and such a varied one that simply categorizing anything mind altering as off topic would seem an impossible task. i mean where do you draw the line. whats good mind altering and whats bad? drugs? whats a drug? chemical artificial? everything is chemicals or minerals. we even produce our own. can we discuss bi neural beats. there are even some bi neural beats called digital drugs?

what im saying is you cant fine people for doing the wrong thing without a list.
you cant just say all illegal drugs... whats illegal to you might not be illegal to me... so then should i be chastised for not knowing the legal rights of another country when i barely know my own.


we need a list break it down

Ya know, I don't really have a problem with this new ruling/clarification. However if it is not consistently and fairly enforced according to Springers ruling, there will just be more drama.

Originally posted by Springer
The Zero Tolerance Policy is as follows:

first offense = post deletion and red tag warning/points deduction.

second offense = instant Post Ban and Account Review for possible permanent ban.

third offense = permanent ban of account

I haven't seen too many warns for much worse, immature behavior. Don't get me wrong... I love this site, but I don't think the mods have the capacity to fairly enforce this edict.

Perhaps we need a drug Czar

whats the problem why do they want to ban it so bad
there worried about people at work not being able to see the site how many people is that anyways and who cares if your at work maybe you should be working

i say allow it i say encourage it this is a conspiracy site and one of the largest conspiracy in the world is the war on drugs

While I am not in total agreement with the new policy, I see no reason to think that this is in any way a negative course of action by the Admin of this site.

It was obviously tried, the allowing of drug discussion on this site by herding the discussion to RATS.

Their effort was evident and should be acknowledged by those of you crying that your freedom of speech is being impeded.

Instead of directing your fruatration you should consider that it is the membership that has failed each other.

When I log onto ATS, I don't see a website that is being forcefed information or told what to think. I see an enabled internet community who are alloted webspace to post their thoughts and hold discussions on just about anything within reason. And for a time that included drugs.

The admin and staff enable a civil environment, we provide the material. I for one and happy to see civility enforced as I could give a tinkers dime about who is able to ingest which drug and how their experience was/is.

What I at times do care about are true conspiracies...such as MK-ULTRA where people were force fed drugs (with resultant loss of life) that the American populace doesn't seem to care about because know one is talking about it. I do care about the fact that corprate America suppresses a versatile plant because of old money and established industry. And I do care that the CIA seems as interested in flooding our streets with illicit materials and subsequently causing an unnecessary obstacle to education as well as implicitly supporting criminal behaviour.

But you all can BS about your right to 'smoke out'...and think that your free speech is being harped on when your side trips into personal experience land interrupts very real conspiracies that are a concern - either directly when we were allowed those threads or indirectly when you ruined it for the rest of us. Thanks.

So yeah...I blame all of us for not taking care of the privilege when we had it.

Since i had no reply, i thought it would be only fair to ask again. Would this be considered a breach of policy ? Or is it maybe that new members do not have the right to ask questions of this nature.

According to their new policy - Yes. Isn't that absurd?

So absurd that they'd probably let that one through. But then why write the policy in such way to be so absurd it isn't followed?

This is why the DISC committee is being formed.

I gotta agree... what a lousy policy.

Various drugs have a highly spiritual aspect to them... not just "lets get high and watch spongebob lawl"
People are supposed to have freedom of speech... its your site but probably 100% of it is user generated. Without the users the site is a nice blank template.

Same with the swearing policy. To get more members? How many members here are under 12? None? I thought so! Most people here are adults (though they may not act like it 24/7). Most people here are older than my dad! I think they've all earned the right to swear!

I've been privately tutored in conspiracy theory since before some most of the site owners and moderators were born. Illegal drugs have a profound effect on many of the underpinnings of political conspiracies. It is a complex issue, intertwined behind most conspiracy theories ... there's even a JFK angle that involves this topic!

If this police continues at ATS, the motto should be changed from "Deny Ignorance" to "Embrace Ignorance".

The following topics are taboo:

1. Thousands if not millions of crooked cop stories including first hand accounts of FBI involvement in the 60's selling directly to high school students; DEA and TSG and county sheriff in the 90's, and both sides of the crooked cop story from throw downs and abuses of the poorly concieved Rico Act to the RECYCLING of absconded contraband.

2. Presidents from Clinton's minor "smoked but did not inhale" to Bush's arrest and subsequent community service time for C, to Obama's speech to a high school and his own book where he admits to both M and C. By extension, this taboos the topic as to whether congress should CONTINUE allowing persons with a criminal history to become congressmen.

3. Stories that explain the "other reason" we are in Afghanistan. www.globalresearch.ca...

4. First hand MK-Ultra stories and how they affected others.

5. Stories featuring the real life consequences of illegal drugs like the 4 classes of 30 children (120 kids) in only ONE public school alone who are walking vegetables because of their mother's prenatal use.

6. Stories of how and why a gang member joined the gang because of all the "twitching" corpses he had to pass on his way to school each day.

7. Children killed in crossfire between drug lords.

8. Stories of "accidental" OOBE's as a result of psychotropics that proves the OOBE wasn't really OOB.

9. I stay away from the medical issue ... it's too contrived.

10. To third party candidate platforms! The Libertarian one for instance.

11. To the reason why 'some' soldiers actually enlisted (were not drafted) for Viet Nam and how that same reason is still common, especially for Afghanistan.

12. And success stories like the MSN front page story where 700 or so arrests were made in a sweep. By extension, the entire Texas/Mexico border story is taboo as well.

So, please explain to us WHY we shouldn't change the ATS motto to "Embrace Ignorance".

Thank you.

edit punctuation


[edit on 26-2-2009 by Trexter Ziam]

Okay, I gave up on reading the entire thread before chiming in – I made it through 18 pages though

The first thing I want to say is that I love the DISC idea. But if you do decide to do that I strongly think a new thread is in order announcing that decision and only to be used for nominations/volunteering.

I imagine many people gave up on this thread after ten pages or so of stuff that we've all seen a hundred times if we're at all concerned about ATS policy on drug related topics.

I support the administration's decision to have a period of zero-tolerance on drug discussion, although I lament that it has come to that point. And I have concerns about how this will impact certain other topics, including the war in Afghanistan and historical conspiracies including MK Ultra.

But I have seen for myself that some members whose primary focus seems to be in the war on drugs not only cannot refrain from posting on their own use of illegal mind-altering substances, but even do so in threads where such discussion is a serious stretch of the topic.

A couple times in the early pages of this thread the point was brought up that industrial hemp is not usable as a mind-altering substance: that is true, but I have seen threads about the benefits of hemp get bent into threads about the hypocrisy of outlawing smokable marijuana but permitting alcohol consumption. And then right on into complaints about ATS policy in the matter.

In any thread even peripherally related, there is the inevitable "now just wait until the fascists in charge of ATS shut this thread down."

That kind of attitude is not helpful to your cause, folks. The administration tried relaxing the restrictions – I don't know how it was before the experiment, since it must have started at just about the time that I joined ATS. But they report that what they found was a simultaneous rise in juvenile posting behavior not only on these topics, but across the boards.

RATS has become known as the "drug forum" – which is not at all the concept behind it, and hardly conducive to its use in discussing other things that members don't want exposed to Google searches.

I also saw a number of posts saying "well, get the mods to do their jobs" or "hire more mods". I think perhaps a lot of people don't realize that ATS moderators are unpaid volunteers who have been nominated to that position as valuable members.

To "hire" more moderators is not that simple – the administration has to find members who are both up to the task and willing to take on the responsibility.

I will also point out that we have no idea about how much moderator time goes into various activities – I think that one thing a DISC committee would have to look carefully at is how to allow important discussion to flourish without becoming too much of a drain on moderator time.

I am confident that the waves will eventually die down and that ATS will reopen legitimate discourse on conspiracies related to substances currently illegal in the U.S., but I think we need to give them some time to get a clean slate for this.

edit to add: now back to the next 30 pages And by the time that's done, there'll be another 18 pages. Why is it that people can talk so much more about whether ATS banning drug talk is a conspiracy than anything else?

[edit on 2/26/09 by americandingbat]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlordI hope we find a way to try again... we're certainly discussing it.

It will be nice if it includes the discussion and posting of research from science and medical journals. [i.e. JAMA, Lancet, etc. - info that would suprise your average day 'Joe'/'Jane' - as its much easier to look at the world as black and white...and of course who is it that paints the picture for them?]

So again, include research from valid scientific/medical sources would really be nice for a site who seeks to 'uncover the truth' - (a.k.a. 'Deny ignorance.')

Peace

dAlen

So lets see here, its ok to talk about alcohol and tobacco which kills millions of people a year but we cant talk about mind expansing drugs like '___', '___' and Salvia divinorum which have killed ZERO people and have a strong argument that they allow us to reconnect with the source? This remind anyone else of something familiar? the government perhaps?

Ive always held a sneaking suspicion this site was secretly "government/PTB/NWO/whatever their called" operated but i did dent think you guys were this dumb to completely sensor a massive subject and get made so easily.

Why not just come right out with it and say: "YES WE ARE RUN BY THE NWO AND WE DON'T WANT YOU TO LEARN HOW TO EXPAND YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS"?

This is just my $.02 worth. I agree with Springer, this is a conspiracy website and not a how I got stoned website. Granted many of the illicit drugs or substances have a perfectly good usage in medicine or industry and discussing the conspiracy of there suppression in this manor 'was' encouraged. However, there were always those that refused to discuss the issues and just had to post their 'latest high' has ruined it for everyone.

It was because of such activity but a minority that I just wouldn't even look at any thread dealing with any illicit drug or substance issues. The threads were always derailed quickly and ruined.

Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do and Springer made the call and I agree. Granted not all will be happy with the action but those of us that love ATS for what it is understand and approve.

it's absolutely absurd that we're allowed to talk about mind altering substances like cigarettes, alcohol or any of the other over the counter drugs that are HARMFUL and KILL people; but we're not allowed to converse about harmless drugs just because the government says they're illegal.

This is a small step, but it's FAR in the wrong direction.

Very disappointing.

[edit on 2/26/2009 by JPhish]

So under the new rules THIS has to go:
Sweeping arrests target mexican drug cartel

And this:
Michael Phelps, hypocrisy and American Drug Policy

And this:
Jail for man who flushed heroin

And this:
Body in suitcase was full of heroin packets, cops say

Question: Shouldn't all these threads be deleted under the new censorship conditions now imposed? At least locked! And shouldn't it have been done before the announcement?

I think this is why the decision needs better definition....fingers crossed eh.

And don't forget...The first print of the Gutenberg Bible and the American Constitution were printed on Hemp paper. How ironic, Let's ban them too!

[edit on 26/2/2009 by nerbot]

reply to post by Springer


I'm quite shocked about this decision to ban the discussion of drugs, this is the first time I've had reason to consider the subject, and have been unaware of the issues that have been raised.

Surely if any individual gets invloved in a discussion of any subject and the thread brakes down, because of individuals being offencive or silly for example. Then the best course of action is to discontinue posting in that thread ?


Should I be discussing a topic and I myself or another, act like a dick then there is an ignore button that we are all free to use. If we choose to get all upset about something someone else has said then surely this is a sign of how poorly evolved we really are?

I'm truly perplexed as to the reason any subject of discussion should be supressed, especially one that has such an overwhelming effect on society.

Please excuse my ignorance as I have not previously been involved in any discussion involving drugs, but are you saying that for example that Should tomorrow a given government withdrew insulin supplies becaus of contamination, that this would not open to any discussion here on ATS ?

Of recent in the UK there has been one hell of a situation with the MMR vaccine, likewise is this no longer to be discussed at ATS ?

Again, the alleged issues around Aspartame, Flouride, Prozac etc are could potentially effect all of us yet are we no longer allowed to discuss such things on ATS ?

As a supposedly evolved species it would seem insane not to discuss for example sex, for fear of a pedophile trying to force his point of view upon us or promoting his own agenda. This does not appear to be IMHO too far removed from prohibtiting discussion of drugs.

Obviously the site owners can do as they please with ATS, and I'm sure that they've had very long discussions over this subject. But at they end of the day prohibition of a topic will not make the topic go away, especially one that can be so non specific.

To point users (customers ?) to another site (store?) where they may be allowed to to discuss the prohibited subject. Appears on the face of it to show some corporate arrogance or ignorance (correct me if I'm mistaken) " Our sponsors now promote health foods, all you fatties can go to Wal Mart".