McDonald's: No workers comp for employee shot protecting patron

reply to post by glimmerman


This isn't about if he "was a hero", or "did the right moral thing". It is about whether McDonalds legally can or cannot allow his workman compensation. I know it sounds cold hearted, but we need to separate our emotions from what the laws state.

I don't see why no one is complaining about the guy who shot him? HE is to blame here. If someone does not like McDonalds ruling on this, there isn't a reason to blame McDonalds. They do not make the workman's compensation laws, they follow them. People need to be upset with the current laws and change them to allow people to get compensation when they are injured outside their current job description.

A man breaks the law and shoots someone, no one seems to get upset. A company follows the laws and denies a workman's compensation claim, and people get upset. There is the problem. Blame is not being placed correctly. Why boycott a company who followed the law? If this young man fought with the shooter, wrestled him to the ground and the gun went off and killed the woman, now what? Should McDonald's be sued because of it?

Forget about right or wrong from a human point of view. You have to look at it from a legal (heartless) point of view. That is how the courts will look at it. Instead of punishing the company for following the laws, instead punish the man who broke the law, and if people are not happy with the current law, work with the government to change it.

This is standard practice at most companies and they tell you during training to NEVER NEVER EVER confront or otherwise engage a robber or other potentially violent person. Insurance will refund their monetary losses and they can track the lost funds through some store's tower cams that record each purchase.

It's also the reason many big box stores no longer check IDs for credit card purchases, there are similar lawsuits in the system involving assaulted employees and customers of various stores including Walmart and Best Buy just in Florida alone.

It is deplorable that they will not help him but he probably will win a settlement against the store.

Well, i know a true story, for wahts it worth. Maybe like 12 years ago, in bosotn MA, ata CVS, one day, a guy leaned over the register and grabbed money and ran out the door. The assistant manager went running after him. The robber stopped turned around, and stabbed the assistant 7 times. HE later died at the hospitol, and the money was never retrived, all over $700 if i remember correctly. At loss prevention meetings, they look down, for this vey reason...personal safety...but moreover, the company sees this heroism, as liabilty now, the assitant or family member may take legal action against the company. As far as the company is concerned, again, its about not getting sued money, they have little to no regard in reality, what happens to emplyees or managers.

Originally posted by Blueracer
Disgusting. This news makes me not want to give McDonald's any of my money.

It's time to boycott McDonalds.

Originally posted by tsloan

Originally posted by CrashGecko

Originally posted by Blueracer
Disgusting. This news makes me not want to give McDonald's any of my money.

Their food alone is Disgusting. why would this instance tip the scale. I stopped eating their food and lost 90lbs. I was only eating 3 days a week. Come on who eats that crap. The company was horrible place to work and pay next to nothing. Who expects any different from that sort of company.

This is why you shouldn't eat there^! Good for you crash do it for your health not there bad taste in judgment your never gonna sway greed from profit but if your in bad health and the Dr tells ya to knock off McyyD's you better listen.

I wonder if President Obama has been made aware of this.

Well i'm not going to get myself directly involved in this topic but I just thought I'd point out an absurdity.

This guys medical bill cost = X amount

The amount they'll lose from a boycott? Well that depends on how well known this story is, and how addicted their customers are to eating garbage, i mean poison, i mean pretend food.

They'll lose either way.

Doesn't quite make sense to me. I agree with the other guy and that I half expected them to pay up and say some bs like "this is the kind of guy McDonalds hires"..

Beyond that I have many conflicting points that I think the other members have covered well so far.

But still.. medical bill vs a boycot of we'll say... 1000 people? more? less?

hmmmm...

Originally posted by Shadow_Lord
I agree with McDonalds, security was not in his job scope. He should have called the police, and I commend him for his efforts, but since his job definition did not include security, it would not be covered. This actually happens a lot. For example, an outlet was bad, and someone who worked in the drive thru decided to rewire it and they were hurt, it would not be covered. However, if they plugged something into a faulty outlet, then it would be covered.

If he was shot just because, it would be covered. But since he went out of his job description, then no. It should not be covered. Just because you get hurt on the job, does not mean you automatically get paid.

I know people will call "boycott" McDonalds just because of this, but they need to research and understand the laws that are in place. If McDonalds pays this, they are accepting fault, and it was not their fault. The person to blame here is the one with they gun. That is where everyone's anger should be pointed, not where this man was working. If that is the case, if someone was shot in your yard, then you should be held accountable for what happened because it was on your property. If this man was in a security position at McDonalds, then they would cover it no problem. But laws state, McDonalds cannot accept this claim.

Anyone who owns their own business knows these laws, and will side with McDonalds because of the laws. Now, that does not bring into any ethics if McDonalds is doing anything to help him outside the law (donations for example) but the claim should be denied.

Hey Shadow_Lord, thanks for dropping in.

You bring up an excellent opposition side to this story. I thought you made a lot of sense and have a very valid opinion of if the employee should be compensated.

Thank you for your reply.

Originally posted by arizonascott
reply to post by wolf241e

 

Send a message to them and quit eating their food. It is all crap anyhow.

At least Burger King is flame broiled

Copy that!!!!

I'll do a flippin Whopper any day over a McWhatever!!!!

I walked away but I came back, I had to continue with my point.

There are like 300 million americans... we'll say 50 million of them read the paper or catch the news.. we'll say even less... 10 million happened to catch that little article ( I don't know how well this story is out in the media, has it been on TV, or in the newspaper? )

So we'll even assume its lesser known story, and that maybe only 1 million people heard of it.

We'll say out of 1 million people... only 100 of them (being McDonalds customers already) decided boycott McDonalds.

We'll say each of them goes to McDonalds once a month per year, and we're not including thier work buddy who is also looking for somewhere to eat that day, or their family. So we'll say its just them...

Each of them spends about 100 bucks a year on McDonalds

100 dollars x 100 people = 10 000 $ they'd lose per year.

10 000 dollars per year vs A medical bill for a few gun shot wounds.

? ??? ?

If greed is the only reason they won't pay up... do I have to teach them how to be greedy? What kind of people do they have working in their company making all these decisions.

Just PAYYY...and tag a sappy garbage story to it about how nice your corporation is to your employees.. people will buy into, and think aww thats nice.. and go eat McDonalds that day.. You'll GAIN money.

haha i dont know man.. like.. I really don't get it.

Maybe they just love their rules so much. Yeah well sometimes rules are wrong, that's why we change them when we have a more evolved perspective.

Originally posted by LostNemesis
This employee was not acting on his job requirements when he was shot, and therefor his own choice to act is his own responsibility.

I have disliked McD's and many fast food places for years, so I am not defending them.

This employee thought he was being a hero.... He probably should have called 9-1-1 if he was concerned.

For all we know, this man that shot him is usually abusive, to a woman that still chooses to be with him. Sorry to have a different opinion on this one, but it's a common story. This was between a woman that should have pressed charges and left a loser... not a min wage worker needing to take laws and matters into his own hands.

Seriously, I am surprised McDonald's is not being sued. Employees like this are a liability.

I agree with this.

I don't like Mcdonalds and typically I avoid any fast food restaurants. But people who work at McDonalds are not security guards or police officers. If they want to become a citizen and do something about it, they should wave their rights to employer benefits.

Originally posted by alaskan
If anything, I'd expect mcdonalds to give the guy some kind of award, and spin it like "that's the kind of person that works for us, and we're proud."

Right on.

I do not believe in million dollar lawsuits...but paid leave, SOME compensation, and medical bill paid (if it is not already from it IDK).

edit to add - I also agree that it is not McDonalds fault...so I would say by following the above would just be for PR.




[edit on 23-2-2009 by FritosBBQTwist]

This guy received an injury while on the job... I don't care what kind of loopholes McDonalds invents, he was on the job when he got injured, he should be compensated.

As such, I'm going to print off a bunch of copies of this story.

If they want to treat their employees like garbage, I'll play the game of awareness and leave copies of this in McDonalds dining areas. It'll be an employee that has to clean it up.

If they think they can just sweep this under the carpet, they are sorely mistaken.

The only reason they think they can get away with this, is because they don't think it'll cost them anything.

We'll see how they feel after patrons and employees begin reading about this and boycotting them.

reply to post by 44soulslayer



I am not sure whether you have laws which says an employer must provide a safe work place or ensure that there are ways to provide safe work place. If this employee who did the "right" moral thing by stopping a man hitting a women is considered outside of the workplace then I am very disappointed in McDonald that there was no occupational health and safety training provided if such a thing occurs frequently that people just stand and watch. I am just wondering if McDonald tells their employee what to do when they get hold up by armed criminals...or perhaps McDonald goes and say oops sorry did not see that one coming. If I was the employee I would sue on the grounds that he was not given proper training in occupational and health matters and that his employer did not provide a safe workplace.

"This employee thought he was being a hero" No, he was just doing what real men do. What if it were a child he was beating on?

Managers totally expect that employees will bounce bad patrons.

My sister worked at one as a teenager and a young adult. Young woman mind you. And she was totally expected to bounce the crazy wack-jobs in in the downtown store. A teenage girl, boucing crazy men.

If they say that they do not expect that, they are lying. It was made very clear that people who don't do so are going to be looked upon poorly by their bosses.

They LIE. Of course, they lie all the time so that is to be expected.

I'm a neuro rehab doctor (MD) that works heavily with work injured patients. MCDonalds is obviously reprehensible for denying the employee's claim as it clearly occurred during work hours and IN THE CONTEXT OF his work. Whether or not he should or should not have intervened is irrelevant in all 50 states.
The big companies and their insurance companies have become completely irresponsible about injured employees, not to mention the defense prostitutes called insurance defense attorneys that do their front line dirty work.
I could tell you stories that would make you want to get you weapon of choice and go after the blood suckers....some examples:
-a leg amputee who had his workers comp benefits cut off 2 weeks before Christmas (he has a wife and four young kids); the insurance lawyer called him and offered him $2000.00 on what should be a $200K claim, for full settlement, without medicals.
- a woman who had her scalp ripped off by a textile machine; the insurance company denied any psychiatric care for post traumatic stress disorder even though she could not sleep at all due to nightmares of the incident, had a bona fide PTSD diagnosis, and had attempted suicide twice. In my deposition the insurance lawyer claimed that her negligence precluded psychiatric coverage (a moronic falsehood).
-a patient with a two level lumbar fusion who can't get out of bed in the morning without medications that cause constipation and dyspepsia; the insurance company denied both medications claiming neither was related to his injury.
-a dominant hand amputation patient who has phantom pain and had a heart attack during the actual amputation at work. The insurance company denies any claim for the heart/cardiac aspect of his injury (and the patient is not having congestive failure due to the heart attack and can't walk more than 15 feet without developing debilitating shortness of breath), claiming that his heart attack would have occurred anyway and thus had nothing to do with the injury (they bought a young and hungry cardiologist to agree with this).

I could go on and on, and when I retire (as soon as I can), I'll write a book about it; I'll call it Text in the mean time, before the current economic depression is over we'll probably get tired of being spat upon and abused by insurance companies and the lawyers AND JUDGES they have on their payroll, *SNIP*.
Wardoc


Mod edit: Removed threatening comment.

[edit on 2/23/2009 by Hal9000]

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
reply to post by John Matrix

 

Actually Im pretty sure the carpark at McDonalds would be included as part of the work environment. After all, who do you think picks up the McParking lot McLitter?

So, how does that effect my point. Sounds like it supports my point. Yes?

reply to post by LostNemesis


What? Do you live in the UK or something?

This is the problem in America (and other places) Nobody wants to get involved and like sheep, let bad things happen without intervention. Becoming a PC nation of limp wristed wusses. Don't get involved, don't defend your fellow citizens, don't defend yourself. What kind of wuss society are we becoming. I know exactly what we are becoming... Europe!

reply to post by genomega


Right. Here we had a young man doing what is becoming rare these days, he was doing the right thing helping another person.

Originally posted by CoffinFeeder
ok guys, give me a break here. the guy decided to go off and play Rambo and tough guy and he got capped for it. He did this of his own free will and it wasn't part of his job.

Read that again, wasn't part of his job.

While he may be a hero to some, he also does not have any right here since he was outside of his realm of duty here.

Now, if he was taking out the garbage and got ganked by this guy out of the blue, that's one thing, but this is another matter entirely. Yeah, its a protection for the company and you know, rightly so. Just because you're on company time doesn't mean that you're covered if you're not doing what you're supposed to do. No one told him to, he went and did it anyway. its kid of like your insurance going void if you crash your car while drunk.

Being a good samaritan and coming to the defense of a woman being beat up by a man is definately not for cowards. It's a good thing for her and others that everyone does not think like you. It has nothing to do with being a "Rambo" and everything to do with concern for your fellow citizen.
I can't wait until people that think like you are all gone.