Proving God to be fake... In under ten seconds...

reply to post by dbates


hehe don't worry man, I do this all the time So I won't take anything personal lol.

I don't seek to change anyone's mind either... I just can't resist pointing out how flawed ALL of the arguments for religion are...

I almost do this for a living

almost.... hehe

Originally posted by nj2day
so wait... Jesus has always been around too? and he's the one who spoke to moses?

It's right there in the Bible. Read the words of Jesus in the book of John.

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
John 8:56

No, this doesn't say where he is when he's not on Earth. Surely you're not suggesting that we've explored enough of the Universe to disprove his home away from home exists?

The scale of the universe is just insane...

That alone is enough for me not to believe in a god...

rawlivingfoods.typepad.com...

I mean look at that, how can anyone create something that HUGE?

It's just mind-blowing I do not believe in any God for one simple reason.... you simply CANT do some things...

Oh wait God is just powerful sorry i forgot....

Seriously? I wish you could see from my point of view... im sure you wish i could see from yours but... ahhh well...

[edit on 19/2/09 by Gregor100]

reply to post by Gregor100


And maybe that's just further example of the enormity and power of the entity we're talking about. I agree, "no one could do that". We're not talking about anything within our ability to rationally concieve of. All in All.

Inconcievable.

Originally posted by dbates
No, this doesn't say where he is when he's not on Earth. Surely you're not suggesting that we've explored enough of the Universe to disprove his home away from home exists?

We can't disprove anything but specific positive assertions.

But what you are suggesting is actually a Russell's Teapot...

"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."

--Bertrand Russell

Originally posted by Gregor100

Pretty hard evidence right there....

..

[edit on 19/2/09 by Gregor100]

Um no. This isnt evidence of anything but your opinion. You cannot prove or disprove the existence of a supreme being by using logic or science. Simply put our view is limited. Unless God decides to reveal himself we will never know for sure.

n2jday, apologies if this sounds harsh....but you sound like a college student who is quoting from his philosophy professor.

It's really simple...your mixing up religion and GOD...one is the eternal I AM, the other is a a cavemans attempt to explain that being.

For all your philosophical banter...there is only one real question...how did we (humanity), our planet, our solar system, our universe, our multiverse get here? Those questions reveal the nature of GOD...the ones you are refuting (and rightly so) have absolutely nothing to do with GOD.

Religion, which is what you are really railing against is a construct of man.

GOD paradoxes have nothing to do with GOD.

reply to post by nj2day


You don't know what I've been taught, what if or any of it I believe in. I haven't even professed a belief in a Yahweh God and I have remained neutral stating scientific fact.

The problem I have with your agument in regards to other equations prove the existence of this and that (black hole theorum used as an example) is it still isn't tangible.

By that argument try to prove to me in regards to quantum theory why certain base level "elements" in this realm of discussion react differently when they are observed by humans?
Next, explain to me how it's possible that is recorded fact that humans can alter their physical environment with their mind.. yet this can't explained by any scientific community currently in existence.

The basic principal of what I'm saying yet again and you still aren't getting the point, you cannot PROVE or DISPROVE the existence of "God".
For someone who hated having "Christains" shove belief down his/her throat you sure are doing the same thing with the opposite of reasoning.

At some point I hope ALL is known to us. Until then you will never be able to disprove God or at the same time prove his existence. Welcome now to the realm of faith my friend.

Originally posted by yeahright
reply to post by Gregor100

 

And maybe that's just further example of the enormity and power of the entity we're talking about. I agree, "no one could do that". We're not talking about anything within our ability to rationally concieve of.

However, if you seek to explain the origins of this enormity with a something of more enormity, you have explained absolutely nothing. You've just moved the question to the newly proposed entity you're suggesting... (Infinite Regression).

Its just a convienient way of not thinking about it... our universe has shown over and over again that is so complexly simple (best way I can describe it) and follows specific rules... using something that breaks these rules mucks up the water...

If you suggest that this "creator" need not have a beginning, but our universe does... by applying Occam's Razor, if a "creator" can exist without beginning or end... than it must be possible for the universe to have done the same... Thus, making it not necessary to have a supreme creator...



[edit on 19-2-2009 by nj2day]

reply to post by yeahright


I understand that those who believe in him don't think he is human, but we were created in his image correct?

So we must be pretty similar unless he is 99999999999999999 miles tall and has the strength of as many bears.... i doubt very strongly that he could achieve what has gone on to create the universe.

I mean think about the chemical bonding that must have gone on to create just the earths atmosphere alone..... he must have some epic lab somewhere.... Oh yeah the 10th dimension how silly of me (not a personal insult to the person who brought up the 10th dimension).

I saw a video by Ricky Gervais, it is supposed to be comedy but it is very true and funny at the same time. A quote:

"God said 'let there be light' and there was light.... So he made light up? Its not as if he saw some on holiday and though 'Ill have some of that back on earth' he just made it up.."

A valid point...

reply to post by nj2day


Oh, cut it out, would you? Some people on here are only looking for the OP to further explain his or her logic. Simple one word sentences do not a refutation make, so stop being so supercilious and let this thing play out over the boards.

Originally posted by deadbang
n2jday, apologies if this sounds harsh....but you sound like a college student who is quoting from his philosophy professor.

Never took a philosophy class in my life... I hate philosophy, as it is essentially nothing but opinions with no wrong answers.

It's really simple...your mixing up religion and GOD...one is the eternal I AM, the other is a a cavemans attempt to explain that being.

Actually, religion and god are tied too closely together... Unless by religion you mean Dogma... than this statement makes sense to me...

For all your philosophical banter...there is only one real question...how did we (humanity), our planet, our solar system, our universe, our multiverse get here?

Science can answer many of those questions... although... the existence of a multiverse is still contested... String theory has failed once already, and M-theory sounds like its about to be proven to be a fantasy... once M-theory is gone, multiverse is out... but I digress

Those questions reveal the nature of GOD...the ones you are refuting (and rightly so) have absolutely nothing to do with GOD.

By god are you talking an infinite consciousness, or are you talking about the Deistic or Pantheist approach? Sounds like we need to define god before we go too much further... we may not disagree as much as you think.

Religion, which is what you are really railing against is a construct of man.

Correct! Religion is completely manmade... but, so is the idea of a divine all powerful consciousness... Remember Occam's Razor...

Just a side note... I don't know how my arguments can be misconstrued as philosophical in nature... I use science based arguments... Any Philosophical questions I ask are usually designed to point out the absurdity of the claim in question...

I hate Philosophy lol

Originally posted by crmanager
reply to post by nj2day

 

You are a Democrat aren't you?

That does explain a lot.

Actually... Nope... my political views are actually pretty far out there... Way far away from the norm.... that's why you'll normally see me fighting both sides of an argument in the political forums

But what does political affiliation have to do with religious beliefs? Or is this some sort of misguided ad-hominem?

reply to post by nj2day


I don't seek to explain anything other than it's inexplicable. Outside of time and physical dimension. Spiritual. If you're looking for something comprehensible to the logical mind with physical dimensions, you're looking in the wrong place. I understand the light is better over there, but you've got to seek spiritually. Or not.

reply to post by nj2day


God's existence is illogical.
So the only way to explain his existence is to create an illogical dimension which he lives in.
One which, not surprisingly, we can not question.

The God of the Gaps is in full effect.

'Not probable, but possible' is all that is needed.
If the great thinkers of our time held the same standards (or rather dropped their own), then we would be discussing the possibility of pink unicorns, rather than looking at the probability of something existing for which there is no evidence.

reply to post by yeahright


hehe, given my complete distain for philosophy, and my science oriented mind, I think its a safe assumption that I'm not spiritual lol.

Time better spent toward the advancement of knowledge and understanding of the "real" world...

If god exist why dont we all believe in him ?
Why those who do believe in a god or gods dont believe in the same ways?
Why it's always only one lucky guy, girl who as the privilege of talking to this god and then the mission too spread the truth to the non-believers?
Why religions are always closely linked to ethical enteties, (ex: caucasians mostly believing in christianity, arabians mostly believing in the islamic religion, asians in boudha, indian in hindou.) or even political beliefs, (ex:France, italia, spain, mostly catholics while england, germany, netherlands are mostly protestants.)
Why are we born without the idea of the existance of a god, we have to learn beleving.

There seems to be one fatal flaw in the original argument. That being that God changes the future. Well, he doesn't. We can look in his Word and see his plan. If he deviates from that plan, he's a liar and no one should follow him.

Dbates [I think it was you anyway ], you said that we don't know where Jesus is right now. That's not exactly true. First, Jesus said that he was returning to the father and then the author of the Hebrew says that Jesus is at God's right hand [and he'll be their until all his enemies are made his footstool (Psalm something or other)].

One previous commentor said that all the non-sinners go to heaven. This isn't right. Followers of God are still sinners. No one can be perfect on this earth [except Jesus since he was God]. So sinners go to heaven and hell.

Being "created in God's image" isn't our humanity. Rather, it is our nonmaterial aspect--emotions, logic, reason, et al--that we're created in. Basically all those things animals don't have.

reply to post by nj2day


I have absolutely no problem with that at all. As long as you understand anything coming from a rational and scientific prspective will likely be considered virtually irrelevant in a discussion about the spiritual, at least to the spiritually-minded.

Everything has a place. I wouldn't look for super collider schematics in The Bible, either.

Science and spirituality are not mutually exclusive.



[edit on 2/19/2009 by yeahright]