Proving God to be fake... In under ten seconds...

www.youtube.com...

If you cant be bothered going to youtube the video says this:

"The god of the bible is claimed to be omnipotent and omniscient.

If you can change the future you are not omniscient.

If you cannot you are not omnipotent.

Myth busted"

Pretty hard evidence right there....

Edit - Well spotted out i mis-quoted... wooops..

[edit on 19/2/09 by Gregor100]

yah, a while back I started a thread with several arguments and showing all the paradoxes created

www.belowtopsecret.com...'

reply to post by Gregor100


Are you that clueless?

That jibberish is proof to you?

I am curious why you need to spend this much time and energy to dispell something you do not believe in?

I don't believe in Santa, I won't spend time disputing his existence.

reply to post by crmanager


He's actually pointed out a well known logical paradox presented by christianity...

however, your aversion to him trying to speak to people about it, seems hypocritical in nature if you're a believer. I suppose it would be ok if he was trying to "save" people for jesus huh?

But its not ok for him to point out weaknesses in the dogma of religious faith?

If believers want this sort of stuff to go away... all they have to do is answer the questions non-believers have been asking...

however, they cannot answer in a way that is not circular logic, or false arguments...

You keep going OP... Ignore the bigotry that will come in here... I'll check in and lend a hand if I see the flames are starting to get high lol

it just means god is the alpha and the omega,he is teh all,love and hate,pain and pleasure,he is everything,thats what it means.Read the gosphel of thomas to understand when he gives allt he oppsites god is all them both side eveything.

Originally posted by devareous
it just means god is the alpha and the omega,he is teh all,love and hate,pain and pleasure,he is everything,thats what it means.Read the gosphel of thomas to understand when he gives allt he oppsites god is all them both side eveything.

Hrm... and I suppose your going to tell us why we should believe the bible to be true right?

I see no reason to regard the book in any more reverence than any other literary work.

reply to post by crmanager


'Time and energy'

I pasted a video link...


And i would be quite happy to put time and energy into it. I am a strong dis-believer. Although people are entitled to their opinions i am entitled to mine. I am also entitled to put forward intelligent arguments against their beliefs. I would be quite happy to have a religious debate with you but if you are going to call me 'clueless' and simply brush aside my point in the manner that you have then i do not have the patience to talk to you..

Give me an intelligent argument as to why that video is wrong?

Don't take any religious text serious. You will find endless ways to go for and against it, words are just words.... when it comes to a higher being, words are useless, books are useless... its just something you have to find within yourself... so if you don't mind, stop posting threads like "there is a god" or "there is no god", believe or don't, whatever suits you better.

You misquoted the "video" (Which is nothing but static text displayed for 9 seconds).

The god of the bible is claimed to be omnipotent and omniscient.

If you can change the future, you are not omniscient. If you cannot you are not omnipotent.

Myth busted.

God is in the 10th dimension. The Universe is an unchanging static image for him. Imagine yourself looking at a picture of a maze from above with a line drawn to every possible outcome. Changing the outcome is irrelevant since all possible outcomes exist at the same time for God. The attributes omnipotent and omniscient are simply given to help our point of view since that is what they relate to.

This is the same lame argument of can god create a rock he can not lift. The answer is YES, because it is just a choice. The only way he could not be all powerful is if he couldn't. But he can choose to create a rock that he can not lift, and he will not be able to lift it until he changes the rules that he can not lift it. Then he will lift it again. If you are all powerful it is nothing but a choice.

The father knows all, past, present and future. Our smaller perception is just a choice of limitation for the experience, just as the choice of the rock to not be lifted for that experience.

Go to a poker table, you can easily look at the cards. But you choose to make those cards that you can not see in order to play and experience the game.

The only thing the video proves is the person making it is clueless and wasn't looking for the truth.



[edit on 19-2-2009 by badmedia]

Paradox's are meant to be understood by the intuitive mind. What exactly is circular logic? I've heard this several times.

Just because a way of knowing is presented in the form of a paradox (and therefore is illogical) does not discredit the knowledge it may contain.

Originally posted by crmanager
I don't believe in Santa, I won't spend time disputing his existence.

Ohhh, trust me you WOULD.

You would if 6 million people were constantly trying to convince you that you would go to hell if you do not believe in him

Originally posted by dbates
God is in the 10th dimension. The Universe is an unchanging static image for him. Imagine yourself looking at a picture of a maze from above with a line drawn to every possible outcome. Changing the outcome is irrelevant since all possible outcomes exist at the same time for God. The attributes omnipotent and omniscient are simply given to help our point of view since that is what they relate to.

Hey Dbates! haven't seen you in a while!

anyway, this 10th dimensional god sounds dangerously like apologetics to me... More "moving the goalposts"...

God was supposed to be in the sky.... but when we achieved flight, and found out he wasn't there... they put him up higher... like in space...

When we made it to space... then things get funky... oh, he's invisible, or 10/11th dimension...

What happens if string theory fails (again, it did in the 90's too). String Theory/M-theory are the ideas that propose all these alternative dimensions...

Will god move somewhere else? or will there always be a fictional dimension somewhere for him to exist in?

On top of that... where are your sources for claiming the 11th dimension? I dont' see it in the bible anywhere...

Oh, I forgot, the bible describes heaven as being in the sky, above the Earth, being supported by giant pillars...

reply to post by nj2day

Meanings of omnipotence Between people of different faiths, or indeed between people of the same faith, the term omnipotent has been used to connote a number of different positions. These positions include, but are not limited to, the following: 1. A deity is able to do anything that is logically possible for it to do[1]. 2. A deity is able to do anything that it chooses to do[2]. 3. A deity is able to do anything that is in accord with its own nature (thus, for instance, if it is a logical consequence of a deity's nature that what it speaks is truth, then it is not able to lie). 4. Hold that it is part of a deity's nature to be consistent and that it would be inconsistent for said deity to go against its own laws unless there was a reason to do so.[3] 5. A deity is able to do anything that corresponds with its omniscience and therefore with its worldplan 6. A deity is able to do absolutely anything, even the logically impossible.

Definition There is a distinction between: * inherent omniscience - the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known. * total omniscience - actually knowing everything that can be known. Some modern theologians argue that God's omniscience is inherent rather than total, and that God chooses to limit his omniscience in order to preserve the freewill and dignity of his creatures.[2] Certain theologians of the 16th Century, comfortable with the definition of God as being omniscient in the total sense, in order for worthy beings' abilities to choose freely, embraced the doctrine of predestination.

I don't see any problems here.


God in the sky or space or whatever is not biblical, rather corinthians and several other places make it clear.

2 Corinthians 4:18 (King James Version)

18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by dnaobs]

Originally posted by unityemissions
Paradox's are meant to be understood by the intuitive mind. What exactly is circular logic? I've heard this several times.

Just because a way of knowing is presented in the form of a paradox (and therefore is illogical) does not discredit the knowledge it may contain.

Circular logic means the proof is in another statement, that is only true if the 1st statement is correct... I'll demonstrate...

God exists because the bible says so.
The bible is the true word of god.

These two statements cannot stand independent of each other... In order for 1 of those statements to be true, the other one must be true.

Used as a basis of argument, which I'm sure you've seen before, is a logical fallacy.

That is (oversimplified in my example) Circular logic.

reply to post by dnaobs


Well, the bible states in no uncertain terms that god knows all... flat out...(I have threads using biblical passages to show this).

Are we suggesting that the bible is inaccurate?

how can that be... isn't it the inerrant word of god?

Now... if god is omnipotent... and has all the power in the universe... why is it in the old testament that god seems to have a weakness against iron chariots?

reply to post by nj2day


You always want to argue against the worse arguments you can find and then act as if that is the only description of god or anything as such. Things which are clearly misunderstood. When pressed with other points of view, it's "moving the goal posts".

Which only proves you don't post in these threads looking for truth, looking for answers, or looking for rational discussion. Because when someone gives you an answer and you can't dismiss what they say, you only go to compare them against the arguments you can prove are wrong.

reply to post by 5thElement


Thats quite good actually I never thought of that argument...

Religious people always bring up the fact that they wouldn't argue against the existence of Santa but when its like that im pretty sure they would if he had a massive following.

Some arguments for his existence that we would expect from a religious person:
- He is real i get presents on Christmas...
- His sleigh CAN make it around the world in one night he's magic duh...
- Don't question how he can fit down a chimney, you never test him...
- Reindeer can fly... well HIS reindeer can...

reply to post by badmedia


Oh I'm not on a search for truth anymore... I gave that up a long time ago... the second you say you are, all you get is christian rhetoric thrown at you in hopes that some of it sticks.

I've read the bible more times than most christians... probably more times than most atheists...

I will not, however, accept just any plain o'l explanation without evidence or source materials. I am not a person of faith.

And moving "god" to the 10th dimension is seriously moving the goalposts... the idea is to always keep "god" just outside of our boundries of exploration.

thats why I ask... what happens if String theory fails again? and there is no 10th dimension? Does your religion end?

Nope, god will be moved somewhere else.

reply to post by Gregor100


its an interesting new twist on Russell's Teapot

Now, when we go to the north pole, and don't find santa's workshop, this must mean he exists in the 10th dimension...