NY cartoon appears to link Obama to dead chimp

reply to post by southern_Guardian


Im not lowering my standards. I just believe that if you are seeing the chimp in that cartoon as Obama, that says more about you than the cartoon.

It clearly is not Obama, because Obama did not write the stimulus bill.

And not everyone believes and knows, or even cares about the whole comparison of black people to apes. There are whole generations of people who grew up in a world where that wasnt done. I sure as hell never heard that kind of comparison growing up. I have learned about it from hysterical responses like this.

And of course discrimination against the Irish doesnt justify slavery. Hell, some Irish were stolen off the streets in Ireland and sold into slavery themselves.

www.yale.edu...

Oliver Cromwell "barbadosed" Irish who refused to clear off their land and allowed other Irish to be kidnaped from the streets of Ireland and transported to Barbados. Those who were barbadosed were sold as slaves or indentured servants, to British planters. They lived in slave conditions and had no control over the number of years they had to serve. The number of Barbadosed Irish in not known and estimates very widely, from a high of 60,000 to a low of 12,000.

Those arguments are not meant to justify slavery. They are meant to point out that not only black Americans have suffered. PEOPLE all over the world have been slaves. The very word "slave" is derived from a very white group of people who were slaved very commonly, Slavs, so commonly in fact that the practice bears their name.

www.etymonline.com...

slave (n.) Look up slave at Dictionary.com
c.1290, "person who is the property of another," from O.Fr. esclave, from M.L. Sclavus "slave" (cf. It. schiavo, Fr. esclave, Sp. esclavo), originally "Slav" (see Slav), so called because of the many Slavs sold into slavery by conquering peoples.

"This sense development arose in the consequence of the wars waged by Otto the Great and his successors against the Slavs, a great number of whom they took captive and sold into slavery." [Klein]

Those arguments are not meant to condone, or justify, but are offered because it is time for people to stop using their history of victimization to dictate their present and future. And to point out that holding on to the role of victim is, in fact, a bit racist itself. It overlooks all the other suffering of all other people in the world in a very self centered and self serving vision of oneself as the greatest sufferers of all.


[edit on 23-2-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]

Originally posted by Mynaeris
When I think of all the pictures implying that Bush was a chimp...

Wait... I thought Bush WAS a chimp! My little cloud of denial is ruined!

[edit on 23-2-2009 by Hurican]

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Im not lowering my standards. I just believe that if you are seeing the chimp in that cartoon as Obama, that says more about you than the cartoon.

Oh yes how dare I not find it acceptable that a newly elected president being compared to as a monkey and being shot at. Dang. Where the hell were you regarding the outcry when bush was fairly being compared to a monkey after 8years of his lies?

No no continue to say its acceptable. The intent is obvious, but the GOP hacks here are just doing their daily clean up jobs. God bless america.

It clearly is not Obama, because Obama did not write the stimulus bill.

Oh really you figured that out?! Why dont you go explain that to your other GOP buddies trigger happy over the bill. Please, and come back to me with their answers. I really love that your trying here. As expressed above.

And not everyone believes and knows, or even cares about the whole comparison of black people to apes.

Exactly and thats the damn issue. If there is a cartoon tomorrow portraying a man with the star of david as "big nosed money grabbers" or an individual with stereotypical exaggerated asian features, you know we'll just make the excuse that nobody cares.

We live in a higher society. Racism of this kind should not be accepted. You disagree with the man, thats dandy, no need to lower your standards by letting go racial untone cartoons. Seriously cut the attempt to clean up what was a blatantly obvious attempt. Bring yourself up a level.

There are whole generations of people who grew up in a world where that wasnt done.

Buddy the last I heard back in the 90s racism was still on the run and everybody still knew verywell the comparison between blacks and monkeys. Howmany 11 or 13year olds or what not are on this site? Shouldnt we be setting an example? Cut cover their asses.

I sure as hell never heard that kind of comparison growing up.

Right, and iv never heard 12 million jews being massacred decades ago. Its easy for me to say that and then deny the holocast or better yet say that 12 americans died in the war of iraq so "everybody dies". Its exactly what your doing.

How old are you? If you have not heard of that racially charged comparison your at most 20 or so which in that case maybe you should learn about the lessons in the past.

And of course discrimination against the Irish doesnt justify slavery. Hell, some Irish were stolen off the streets in Ireland and sold into slavery themselves.

Those arguments are not meant to justify slavery. They are meant to point out that not only black Americans have suffered.

Damn straight, and lets acknowledge it. However what those argument do intend to do is act as if "it wasnt a big deal" and thats my issue. I can understand those who oppose affirmative action or compensation to blacks but then certain folks tend to blow it to the point where they start throwing around this "it wasnt a big deal for blacks to be made slaves" bullcrap or "I cant be held responsible for centuries ago". Ofcourse you cant, but it is our duty to acknowledge the lessons of the past, and its unfortunate there are some who have obvious personal issues and they let go too far.

PEOPLE all over the world have been slaves.

Wonderful, shall we do a comparison? I can bet you right now blacks have got it 10 times worst. It is time for to acknowledge and respect the lessons of the past instead of this "they didnt get it so bad" BS. This has nothing really to do with the fact other non-blacks suffered, this as plently to do with lowering how bad the situation was for silly modern partisan issues, and thats BS.

Continue the clean up job, but I wont stand for the lowering of societies standards.

[edit on 23-2-2009 by southern_Guardian]

This thought just occurred to me: Perhaps it's predicting a fate comparable to what happened to Abe Lincoln. The stimulus bill may not be all that favorable to some people of 'authority' (as personified by the cops).

Originally posted by southern_Guardian

Oh yes how dare I not find it acceptable that a newly elected president being compared to as a monkey and being shot at.

He isnt.

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Oh really you figured that out?! Why dont you go explain that to your other GOP buddies trigger happy over the bill. Please, and come back to me with their answers.

Im not a Republican.

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Exactly and thats the damn issue. If there is a cartoon tomorrow portraying as "big nosed money grabbers" or asians as "chinks", you know we'll just make the excuse that nobody cares.

I grew up in Hawaii. We didnt pick on blacks and jews. We were relatively oblivious to the whole black and jewish issue. We had our own issues.

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Buddy the last I heard back in the 90s racism was still on the run and everybody still knew verywell the comparison between blacks and monkeys. Howmany 11 or 13year olds or what not are on this site? Shouldnt we be setting an example?

You are setting an example. You are feeding these 11 and 13 year olds the message that blacks are compared to chimps.

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
How old are you? If you have not heard of that racially charged comparison your at most 20 or so which in that case maybe you should learn about the lessons in the past.

Im telling you. We really did not have exposure to the whole black racism thing in Hawaii. We had racism all right, but blacks werent the target. If Obama got picked on in Hawaii as a child, it would have been because his mother was white, not because he was brown.

I have learned lessons from the past. Just different ones than you have. The lessons I have learned are, that the people who are victimized and pick themselves up and move on, tend to do relatively better in life. They at least dont wallow in their own misery, even if the rest of society still views them poorly. And, the other lesson I have learned from history is that people who hold grudges, and become racist themselves, tend to draw more racism upon themselves when the people they continually flog with the past get sick of it and lash back.

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Ofcourse you cant, but it is our duty to acknowledge the lessons of the past, and its unfortunate there are some who have obvious personal issues and they let go too far.

Women as a class have been and still are in many places treated like slaves. And not for just a couple hundred years, either. We are talking thousands of years without the right to own property, to education, to vote or have any say in government. You would think that a group of people who had known mistreatment (slavery) would be compassionate towards those who suffered right along with them. But they dont. Because most people, including many black people, arent really against the mistreatment of other humans in general. They are against the mistreatment of their own group. Screw everyone else.

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Wonderful, shall we do a comparison? I can bet you right now blacks have got it 10 times worst.

Of course they do. At least in their own minds. It couldnt be the SLavs who had it worse.

simple.wikipedia.org...

Slavs are the people who live in Eastern and central Europe. They include Russians, Poles, Czechs, Serbs, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Bulgarians, Slovaks, Macedonians and Croatians.

Because when you say this'

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Right, and iv never heard 12 million jews being massacred decades ago. Its easy for me to say that and then deny the holocast or better yet say that 12 americans died in the war of iraq so "everybody dies". Its exactly what your doing.

You are ignoring the simple fact that it wasnt 12 million Jews that died in the holocaust.

en.wikipedia.org...

Jews, 5.9 million [30], Soviet POWs 2–3 million [31], Ethnic Poles 1.8–2 million [32][33], Romani 220,000–1,500,000 [34][35], Disabled 200,000–250,000 [36], Freemasons 80,000–200,000 [37],
Homosexuals 5,000–15,000 [38], Jehovah's Witnesses 2,500–5,000

Remember those Slavs? Well they included the Poles, who got the shaft in the Holocaust too. But no one is holding candlelight vigils for them now, are they?

To learn the lessons from history, we need to actually look at all of history. Not only our own myopic view of our own. People have treated one another horribly. And black people have treated others horribly too. There is no ethnicity that is completely innocent of perpetrating horror on others. And there is no ethnicity that has gotten off without some suffering of their own. What happens all too often is that those who have suffered go on to feel justified in making others suffer, and the cycle continues.

Holding on to a sense of victimhood doesnt tend to make people more compassionate towards others. But less so.

[edit on 23-2-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
He isnt.

Yes, and you continue to think that and deny the fact. Denial.

Im not a Republican.

I dont care, you certainly seem to be making an effort covering the ass. Now as this is a newspaper catering to predominantly GOP supporters, and as the majority of GOP supporters has the assumption that this is Obamas stimulus, I think it speaks for itself.

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
I grew up in Hawaii. We didnt pick on blacks and jews. We were relatively oblivious to the whole black and jewish issue. We had our own issues.

Thats Hawaii buddy, for petes sakes thats the environment you grew up in. The majority of america has gone through the history of racism and comparing an entire people to animals. Hawaii is one of the most liberal tolerant states for petes sakes.... you have not lived in the south for most of your life, you have not lived in the midwest for most of your life. You obviously are equating your personal experiences to what the majority suffered in comparison. You cannot compare your childhood in a tolerant society in small hawaii as compared to those in the south and the midwest.

You are setting an example. You are feeding these 11 and 13 year olds the message that blacks are compared to chimps.

Yes so we should not rail blatant old fashioned racism because the kids may learn of it? Kids learn from the lessons of history buddy. Its our job to prevent history from repeating itself. Real BS excuse to justify that stunt from the NY post.

Im telling you. We really did not have exposure to the whole black racism thing in Hawaii.

So because I was brought up outside of europe after world war two, and that I never had exposure to anti-senetism and killings of my family as those 12 million jews did, I should just assume my experiences were the same as those jews? Or palestinians? Your logic doesnt work.

No no continue the clean up job illusion.

Maybe the people that looked at a monkey and immidiatly saw Obama, have the problem. I think it is rather funny myself. It's even better now that people are mad.

Don't know if this was mentioned yet, I've only gone through a few pages of posts but wanted to jump ahead to give you my humble opinion.

First and foremost, the creator of the cartoon choose his words poorly but the subject matter does fit if you look at the Stimulus Bill as the chimp. When they're young, chimps are cute, cuddly, and obedient. Everybody loves a baby chimp. But when they get older, they become incredibly strong aggressive creatures who will rip your face off at the drop of the hat. You cannot control a mature chimp.

Sounds like the Stimulus Bill to me. Everybody wants to embrace it and feel its love, but just wait a few years when the full measure of the bill matures. I don't think I will be feeling the love then. Just my opinion.

To be honest, the best explanation I have seen here was about this cartoon having to do with Travis the Chimp that was gunned down by the police department a few days shy of this cartoon being published.

This works fine with the "barrel of monkeys" who wrote the stimulus idea.

Originally posted by Mynaeris
There seems to be two threads about this non-event. So I will just copy my comment from the other thread.

I am surprised ANYBODY is seeing this as racist. When I think of all the pictures implying that Bush was a chimp (I'll add a couple of links below). The race card is getting really old - the stimulus bill does look like a cartload of chimps wrote it with crayons on toilet paper. So I think it's fair comment.

Pic One

Pic 2

Pic 3

Pic 4

If you want a few more let me know.

But.... Bush actually looks similar to a chimp, Obama does not.
Although I do agree that if it were any politician other than one who happens to be black, it would be a non-issue.

I can't presume what the intent was but the reaction is the standard use of the "race card".

reply to post by Djarums


Could it be, that it refers to his speech-writer and/or, his administation councellors? Is there not a rule, that Congress must vote on any bill for a majority vote, before it is passed (no comment on how many they deem necessary to be attending when voting...)? Or is this bill actually one that is proven, that Mr Obama suggested/drew up himself?

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thI just believe that if you are seeing the chimp in that cartoon as Obama, that says more about you than the cartoon.

and there you have it. spot on. take a look at WHO is assuming this.

you know...watching this unfold and watching how belligerent so many people in Atlanta have become makes me believe that this whole having black president (okay half black) is going to backfire on this country and give us even more problems with racism being brought out into the open...from blacks and whites and hispanics and asians and all the other races (just to clarify that it exists in all races to varying degrees by individual). but maybe that's what has to happen before everyone finally gets over themselves and realizes we're all just humans.