The EU is Illegal by UK Law

Originally posted by TheOracle
And a unified Europe is a bad thing because?



I just wish people could see beyond borders and national "pride" because in the end we are all humans on this little ship called Earth. The more we are united the better.
And dont give me this NWO crap because England is the country with the most surveillance and freedom breaching legislation, so in this regard you'd be more free under european laws (in most EU countries privacy is still a big issue).


sigh

But that attitude does not allow you to blow a gasket and blame others (scapegoats) for your problems. The tabloid press thrive on such anger.

Sad I know but most humans will grab hold of any excuse to hate somebody:religion, race, immigrant labour, asylum seekers, football teams. etc etc

This was an interesting find, a clause that protects a nation's sovereignty. Whenever I see something like this, I ask myself the following questions:

Why was the law made? (What was its purpose/history?)
Does the same law apply today?
Why or why not?

My home state says that you cannot park your horse outside of townhall. It's still on the books, though no one rides a horse to townhall. I see how that's outdated due to changing times, but I'm guessing just from the way this law was written that U.K.'s sovereignty was threatened in the past and a mistake was made that caused a great deal of harm. Thus the need for law. Is U.K.'s sovereignty less threatened now than it was then? I'd say no, I'm sure there's a lot of other groups (Al Qaeda), countries and Unions (European or otherwise) that would love to run the show. Trade is good, but if the country's leadership have no chips in which to bring to the table, then they may as well change the name of the land, flag, and all the laws contained within it to conform to its true leader. Unions are great for collapsing systems to synergize and remain competitive for as long as recovery is needed, not for systems that work well on their own. We the people of the U.S. should understand better than anyone the importance of self-government...it wasn't even 300 years ago that it was obtained. If we're thinking of unionizing, probably best to give our presidency back to the royal crown that paid for us to be here in the first place along with 1/3 of our land. Another 1/3 goes to the native americans, and the remainder to Mexico. If you disagree, I cannot possibly see how you'd agree to the U.K. submitting to the EU.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by saint4God]

Sorry my fellow brothers from across the pond but I think just like here in the US the constitution means nothing anymore. Its just an inconvenience to government or just a piece of paper. Our governments live by another unspoken set of rules and I promise you the constitutions are not it. Take the red pill and youll see.....

reply to post by TheOracle


Thank you, finally a positive sound.

I dont get whats so bad about the EU, I come from Holland myself, and sure some laws are EU made, but they mostly cover bigger issues like agriculture, economics etc. We still have our own laws and exceptions to it, like the drug policy wich is still the same and cant be influenced by the EU. As far as the Euro goes, I think we (dutch) would been worse off if we still had our old money, wich for sure wouldnt have survived this economic crisis.

Originally posted by Ahabstar
reply to post by XXXN3O

 

I always wondered what both Churchill and Hitler would say about the EU. I bet they would both be saying you got to be kidding me.

Church Hill would say "We fought wars to prevent this, and just a few decades latter hand it all over????!" ..

Hitler would say "Why didn't I think of that?"

By the way, English people spell funny.

Originally posted by d0p3d
I dont get whats so bad about the EU, I come from Holland myself, and sure some laws are EU made, but they mostly cover bigger issues like agriculture, economics etc

The concern isn't for what the E.U. is (as I understand it) but rather what it could be. Yes, there are 'laws-light' on the books now, but 'some laws' oft turn into 'many laws' and gain weight over time.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by saint4God]

I am from Riga (Latvia) living and working in UK. I see in local people apathy and fear to stand up for themselves against all the madness against British customs and culture.

I am ashamed and saddened to witness all this.

For instance the traditional Christmas party at one school was canceled due to the low percentage of British nationals in the class. Also at the same school the non British pupil got massive holidays because according to their traditions they don't go to school before Christmas and of course they got official holidays.

The same applies to the politics - lack of interest, apathy and ignorance.

Originally posted by FIFIGI
I am from Riga (Latvia) living and working in UK. I see in local people apathy and fear to stand up for themselves against all the madness against British customs and culture.

I am ashamed and saddened to witness all this.

For instance the traditional Christmas party at one school was canceled due to the low percentage of British nationals in the class. Also at the same school the non British pupil got massive holidays because according to their traditions they don't go to school before Christmas and of course they got official holidays.

The same applies to the politics - lack of interest, apathy and ignorance.

you point out some interesting things about the direction of things in the uk,
first welcome to your new uk job !!!.
you say locals have a look of apathy, mmm being bone idle & lazy has been a major past time here in the uk & uk residence are proud to continue with this past time, we practice a lot
the apparent fear to stand up for one`s self, since you have been in the uk, have you not noticed all the police (thugs in flouro jackets) cctv cams, prisons, courts & the like, i think the uk puts more people in prison than any other eu country, fear ???, believe me the judical system is very often used not to protect the uk public, but to keep it in line, we uk residence have very good reason to fear (thugs in flouro jackets).
as for culture, mmm well our great british history is quite clear realy in our past we have tried to rule the world , we totally love violence & any excuse to beat the living s--t out of a complete stranger is classed as good entertainment, we love fooball & the winning side gets as drunk as posible & has a bloody good scrap so not much has changed in the past few hundred years.
as for multiculturism, mmm well like you come here from latvia, i wouldnt be supprised if you hang around with latvian friends, now most other visitors do it muslims dont mix, polish hang around together, so whats realy happening on the ground is a modern day getto system, multicuturism in the uk has not worked & many schools now are having to use teachers that speake many languages so they can understand the kids,& i thought the kids were there to learn from teachers, the true english culture is being forced into an andrigenous grey area where offending some ones religion (islam) is likley to get you called a racsist, but islam is not a race, but a realy sensative issue used my muslims to get there own way. or being stabbed for having the wrong postal code are now accepted.
but hey look on the bright side, with the current global nosedive the uk is a great recipe for unheard of violence, the more jobs that are lost by the apethetic uk worker the more quietly angry we get, then when the moment is ripe (just add lots of alcahole) & spotanious violence will erupt, it will be at this blood thirsty point that i will once again be glad i am part of one of the most violent nations on earth
& this violent flash point can already be seen in several european countrys, this eu treaty crap & it is crap will eventually be reversed becuase its only being held together by not letting any one have a refarendum becuase most of the eu public dont want it.
so for now enjoy becuase it isnt going to last

ps*when it kicks off, about 70 million uk public, about 2 million muslims, about 900,000 polish lets say well over 50 million uk residents who are getting angry with immigration, 1/3 kids 1/3 old people 1/3 fighting age thats about 15 to 25 million fighters with the same potential enemy, mmm
this may get a little messy

To answer the OP's original obervation....

The UK Parliament was well aware of the issue of Parliamentary Sovreignty (which is what that bit of the Bill of Rights is talking about). In order for EU law to become effective in the UK, the UK Parliament must accept it.

The UK Parliament did this in the European Communities Act 1972:

www.opsi.gov.uk...

EU law is not effective within the UK because of some de facto state of affaairs, but purely becuase of the European Communities Act, which was an Act of sovreign UK Parliament. This Act says that Parliament will observe EU laws and abide by ECJ rulings: but it is important to observe that these laws and rulings only have effect by virtue of that Act of Parliament.

It is of course a sort of legal fiction, but in technicality there is no subjugation to any other power: the authority of EC law comes as delegated from UK Parliament in that Act.

(In much the same way as Parliament could pass an Act stating that all citizens must abide by the pronouncements of Mr Arthur Philip Mattinsook of 5 Chesterley Lane, Derby - this would not make Mr Mattinsook the sovereign, as he carries only a delegated authority from Parliament)

thank you for this, you have given me hope


2n d line

The EU is Illegal by UK Law

I completely agree with you.
However, they will just change the law.

TheOracle:

And a unified Europe is a bad thing because?

Of the manner it is being forced upon us. If I do not agree to something, I want my voice heard. I'm not interested in promoting 'brotherly love' around the planet when it is nothing more than sychophantic platitude to bring to pass a nefarious result. F**k that!

When we can integrate 'altruism' and 'conscience' in all our actions towards one another, then I'm interested...you can count me in. The very thought of the Sceptered Isle becoming a mere vassal island of Europe, especially after all that has been historically accomplished by the people of this little island, fills me with dread and loathing. If Europe believes I'm about to give up the thousands of years of history that flows through my veins, then it can kiss my arse! The British are identifiably outside of the European mindset, having more in common with America, than our nearest neighbours across the channel and the North Sea. Even as that is true, we are still collectively, traditionally, culturally different...and we are not going to give it all up...not for anyone, anything.

Our treasonous politicians can ratify all they want, but the time will come when it will all be torn down. We were promised a referendum on integrating with Europe. That promise has been reneged upon, and until a referedum is called and exercised, no European law will stand as legal in the minds of the British people...hence the reason for the evolving police state in my country. What Napoleon or Hitler could not acheive, our own politicians are seeking to do...and although they may succeed in establishing a European politic, run and ruled from Brussels, they will find the British people roused to anger and righteous war. Those who sold our country down the European toilet, and those who try to force our heads down with it will meet with a reckoning later down the line.

This will not simply be a English revolution, it will be a collective British one, out of which will come a true and wholly British constitution. Ireland will become whole; Scotland and Wales will become independent of England, and this whole collective of peoples will regain their national identities, pride, and a honoured place in the historical British pantheon...working and trading with each other has it should have been from the beginning. We will even trade and work with the Europeans, but we will not allow the sort of political integration they are seeking to establish by force. Globalisation and corporatism will go the same way as the Nazi's 1000 year plan, flushed down the toilet of their own making. You arouse this little island to anger at your peril!

No! Nay! Never! To Europe!

Originally posted by d60944
To answer the OP's original obervation....

The UK Parliament was well aware of the issue of Parliamentary Sovreignty (which is what that bit of the Bill of Rights is talking about). In order for EU law to become effective in the UK, the UK Parliament must accept it.

The UK Parliament did this in the European Communities Act 1972:

www.opsi.gov.uk...

EU law is not effective within the UK because of some de facto state of affaairs, but purely becuase of the European Communities Act, which was an Act of sovreign UK Parliament. This Act says that Parliament will observe EU laws and abide by ECJ rulings: but it is important to observe that these laws and rulings only have effect by virtue of that Act of Parliament.

It is of course a sort of legal fiction, but in technicality there is no subjugation to any other power: the authority of EC law comes as delegated from UK Parliament in that Act.

(In much the same way as Parliament could pass an Act stating that all citizens must abide by the pronouncements of Mr Arthur Philip Mattinsook of 5 Chesterley Lane, Derby - this would not make Mr Mattinsook the sovereign, as he carries only a delegated authority from Parliament)

Finally, a poster who understands the issue of authority delegated (in this case to the EU) by a democratically elected parliament in line with legal process, instead of ranting away in fear, rage and ignorance.

Have a star, mate.

IMO the human race can not maintain its present backward-looking, fragmented and bickering tribal structures for ever. Sooner or later this planet has to come together, under one single government and one currency, with 'freedom and justice for all' etc.

Nationalism and tribalism are inherently evil things: divide and rule. Surely the human race's present political fragmentation with all its wars, bigotry and general bureacratic inefficiencies can't last forever?

National borders can not and must not survive this century.

I'm rather stunned at how welcoming so many ATS members are of the EU. Most of you are viewing it through rose-tinted spectacles, not seeing it for what it really is - the 'EUSSR'. You walk readily into one of the NWO's most vital projects. Do you all think the NWO is also a good thing? For those who know that the NWO/EU should be apprehended, please speak up, because right now I'm losing hope for the future of the human race.

Originally posted by Foppezao
As i stated the constitution was an enlightment that it combined the former treaties in a much more clearer way..The reason why the Dutch and France voted No had almost nothing to do with the EU but more with the reputation of their national governments at that time. Other countries didnt held a referendum probably for this reason

Right. We get it - you're Anti-Democratic.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
The EU #could# be the force which stops inter-european conflict for ever, the ability to roam the earth freely will once again be the right of all men and so many of the other evil things which come with being foes (weather declared or not) will fade away.

Hang on. For a start, it's not the eradication of borders that I oppose. It's the EU! Check out the EU constitution. It's the CENTRALISATION OF POWER - NOT THE ALLEVIATION OF POWER. Do you believe centralised power will be less tyrannical than non-centralised power?

Originally posted by NatureBoy
Why are people fighting so strongly to keep the power elites which have time and time again screwed over the british people and have proven themselves to be in the pockets of large multinational companies anyway?

The REAL power elites are in Brussels my friend. Think they're not in the pockets of large multinational companies? Think that the whole EU plan isn't going to facilitate MORE enslavement of European peoples? Do you know what the Soviet Union did to individuals who questioned the regime? The EU Constitution already hints that no authority will be questioned.


reply to post by d60944

Yes, thank you for that. I'm aware of what you wrote but as far as I'm concerned, the fact that there was no referendum on undermining the British Constitution means that any alteration was illegal. They have loopholes, of course. But if the EU was so good for us - a supposedly DEMOCRATIC NATION - why did we never get our referendum? Why the devious use of technicalities? What happened to good honest laws? Oh yeah, they went the way of British sovereignty.


Incredibly put elysiumfire! Couldn't have said it better myself.

Originally posted by bovarcher
Finally, a poster who understands the issue of authority delegated (in this case to the EU) by a democratically elected parliament in line with legal process, instead of ranting away in fear, rage and ignorance.

So sharing facts with people is now called "ranting". You used the word "democracy" - what's democratic about refusing the public a promised referendum? Even if you are as naively pro-EU as you appear, surely you can agree on a democratic process in doing so.

Originally posted by bovarcher
Nationalism and tribalism are inherently evil things: divide and rule. Surely the human race's present political fragmentation with all its wars, bigotry and general bureacratic inefficiencies can't last forever?


National borders can not and must not survive this century.

Your attitude does terrify me. National borders are the only thing preventing NWO dominance. Tribalism is not evil - it is natural and DOES NOT mean a disharmonious globe. What's worse, tribalism, or an increased divide between the NWO elites and the rest of us? YOu see, your absence of tribalism will be filled by a global impoverishment. The NWO is not utopia. It'd be nice if it was. But read up about it. Don't rely on your misconceptions about what the EU means for our future. You WILL be sorely, fatally disappointed. If we get a benevolent new world order, I'd be all for border-dissolution.

reply to post by bovarcher


Divide and Conquer is a MYTH. If your forces can beat 5 groups in separate places then they can beat all 5 groups united together. Your also making a lot of generalisations towards "Tribal Communities".

Uniting also is not going to stop the bad aspects of humanity, its not small communities or sovereignty that causes trouble its the people themselves. Those that cause trouble will ALWAYS cause trouble. Those who like to fight foreigners at football matches will switch to fighting fans of other teams from the same nation if no foreigners are around. Likewise if you actually managed to unite the planet those same people will end up fighting against whatever isn't human or a threat to human society (watch out aliens).

Because of human nature can you really trust any human being in control of a lot of supplies and people without them becoming corrupted and greedy.

I'd rather see everyone living under "Statelessness" than under "Unification".

Another thread about the fascist EU. Personally I can't be bothered to write page after page, because it won't make any difference to those who are pro EU, simply because they are brainwashed or just plain ignorant and seem only too happy to be governed over by politicians who are morally bankrupt. Do you people even know why we had two world wars. Do you know which country is behind the EU, Do you know which country will have the most power within the EU. Yes! Germany and if your not alarmed, then you should be, unless of course you don't care.

Thankfully there are still some of us who do believe in morality, ethics and honor and I for one will never recognise the EU. I believe in democracy and I didn't vote for the EU treaty, therefore I will never recognise it.

Both Tony Blair & Gordon Brown have sold us out. Nothing like being bought & paid for.

Tony Blair Being Plugged by Nicolas Sarkozy for President of Europe
www.lifesitenews.com...
www.thetruthseeker.co.uk...

Gordon Brown to head IMF.
www.guardian.co.uk...

www.guardian.co.uk...

TheOracle
I just wish people could see beyond borders and national "pride" because in the end we are all humans on this little ship called Earth. The more we are united the better.
And dont give me this NWO crap because England is the country with the most surveillance and freedom breaching legislation, so in this regard you'd be more free under european laws (in most EU countries privacy is still a big issue).

Yeah I can see how being united under a fascist banner would be beneficial to the human race.

As for freedom breaching legislation. Where do you think these laws came from - The EU, that's where. 90% of New Labour legislation has come directly from the EU.

Originally posted by Cythraul

Right. We get it - you're Anti-Democratic.

In fact i study political science [European integration bachelor].
So you can imagine i am not impressed by your non-scientific paranoid NWO outbursts, or the whining about
the British empire [which sun set +/- 100 years ago] being crushed by a European Soviet Union.Yes it must be hard to say goodbye to the old empire and join those midgets on the continent in some new fascist union.
Why dont you begin by reading some about Monnet/Schuman, Jacques Delors, Giscard d'Estaing, and all we have accomplished in wealth and freedom after 1945 and the ECSC in our unity..try "ever closer union"by desmond dinan.Maybe after that you can regain your sleep and rest, or start worrying about your own big brother surveillance program.[and please explain why the rest of the EU doesnt have these radical programs?]


BTW, don't forget to vote in June and stop whining all you puffs..

this is why

The Parliament had been gaining more powers from successive treaties, namely through the extension of codecision procedure,[23] and in 1999, the Parliament forced the resignation of the Santer Commission.[24] The Parliament had refused to approve the Community budget over allegations of fraud and mis-management in the Commission. The two main parties took on a government-opposition dynamic for the first time during the crisis which ended in the Commission resigning en masse, the first of any forced resignation, in the face of an impending censure from the Parliament.[25]

In 2004, following the largest trans-national election in history, despite the European Council choosing a President from the largest political group (the EPP), the Parliament again exerted pressure on the Commission. During the Parliament's hearings of the proposed Commissioners MEPs raised doubts about some nominees with the Civil liberties committee rejecting Rocco Buttiglione from the post of Commissioner for Justice, Freedom and Security over his views on homosexuality. That was the first time the Parliament had ever voted against an incoming Commissioner and despite Barroso's insistence upon Buttiglione the Parliament forced Buttiglione to be withdrawn. A number of other Commissioners also had to be withdrawn or reassigned before Parliament allowed the Barroso Commission to take office.[26][27]

In addition to the extension of codecision, the Parliament's democratic mandate has given it greater control over legislation against the other institutions. In voting on the Bolkestein directive in 2006, the Parliament voted by a large majority for over 400 amendments that changed the fundamental principle of the law. The Financial Times described it in the following terms:[28]

“ The European parliament has suddenly come into its own. It marks another shift in power between the three central EU institutions. Last week's vote suggests that the directly elected MEPs, in spite of their multitude of ideological, national and historical allegiances, have started to coalesce as a serious and effective EU institution, just as enlargement has greatly complicated negotiations inside both the Council and Commission. ”

In 2007, for the first time, Justice Commissioner Franco Frattini included Parliament in talks on the second Schengen Information System even though MEPs only needed to be consulted on parts of the package. After that experiment, Frattini indicated he would like to include Parliament in all justice and criminal matters, informally pre-empting the new powers they could gain as part of the Treaty of Lisbon.[

Wiki.





[edit on 19-2-2009 by Foppezao]

Originally posted by Foppezao
In fact i study political science [European integration bachelor].

That still doesn't explain why you're Anti-Democratic.

Originally posted by Foppezao
Yes it must be hard to say goodbye to the old empire and join those midgets on the continent in some new fascist union.

This isn't about the British Empire. I couldn't care less about the Empire and I certainly don't look down on the rest of Europe. That is NOT the reason I oppose the EU. My own mother is Dutch, by the way. The EU will be a new fascist Dictatorship. You, with your studies in political science, should know what that entails.

Originally posted by Foppezao
[and please explain why the rest of the EU doesnt have these radical programs?]

As this site puts it:

Amongst its 27 nations, Britain is the main target. They know from our long history and two world wars the EU dictatorship cannot be built while there is a strong and freedom loving Britain on its doorstep. For that reason the EU’s British sympathisers have been undermining us with scores of Frankfurt School subversion techniques since the 1950’s, including control of the media, the corruption of our courts, political correctness to prevent debate, undermining teachers and the family. That is why, for example, the French don’t implement many EU regulations, but in Britain our fifth column implements the lot, and gold plates them.

Originally posted by Foppezao
BTW, don't forget to vote in June

and stop whining all you puffs.

What's a 'puff'? And yes, I'll most certainly be voting.

reply to post by Foppezao


I really couldn't give toss about The British Empire.
It was a product of it's times; if we hadn't built one then either The Germans / French or Spanish would have done....indeed all tried, just not as successfully as us.

The fact is there will never be a strong and truly effective European Union as long as a strong and independant United Kingdom remains.
Hence the systamatic dismantling of British society and culture.

The UK is under attack, both overtly and covertly, on all fronts....I get the impression that this country is about to explode and that the choices we make will have dramatic repercussions for generations to come.