STOP the socialisms!

Originally posted by RubberBaron
At this time, I would recommend some trickle down economics, If we give the money and tax breaks to the rich, they will be able to make more jobs and pay us for our products.

Well that style of thinking is working great so far.

That is exactly the economic model that Our Glorious President Bush and the anointed NeoCon disciple's instituted.

Have you seen the latest unemployment stats?
www.foxnews.com...

Originally posted by mental modulator

Originally posted by aNdReSk
Do you also like paying absurd ammounts of money to get a decent education? I don't support having a welfare at all, but neither I support to charge students to get their education. Many young students have to go in deep debt in order to finish college/university. That makes them slaves of the bank.

WELL it their choice to be educated now isn't it?

THEIR choice to in debt!

The banks create jobs - why would you punish a bank?

Education is overrated

Are you really such a fascist as you appear to be in this thread, or do
you just pretend to be, to have a laugh at honest people that still care
for other humans?

I've never seen such selfish opinions expressed in one thread. You
people apparently haven't got the faintest clue of what socialism really
is do you? True socialism is about being social in the real sense of the
word, it's about caring for people, about making sure that the poor, the
weak and the sick have as much opportunity to live the life they want
to, as the rich and the strong. Because everyone is human and equal
in value and worth, everyone deserves the same chances.

I agree that true socialism almost doesn't exist in this world anymore,
but there is only one way for humans to live in harmony and freedom,
and that is in a true socialist society. The last people who managed to
live in harmony in true socialistic communes, were the native north
Americans, but they were all but completely wiped out by... the brutal
fascist invaders now calling themselves Americans, and guess what,
they are still invading other countries up to this day, in the same kind
of fascist dictatorship.

Russia and China and Cuba and other countries like them, aren't socialist
or communist countries, they are in fact dictatorships. Democracy is in
fact, dictatorship, just that it is masked in a way that people actually think
they have any influence on the government's policy. Democracy is a
slave system in which the people are blinded to the fact that they are
indeed slaves.. just like almost all other countries on this planet, the West
consists of dictatorships.. and America is the worst of them.. they don't
care for human life one bit.. only the almighty dollar is what matters.

America treats her own citizens even worse than she treat terrorists.

If you haven't figured all this out by now, then you are really quite blind.

[edit on (15/2/09) by Wehali]

You can call it whatever the hell you want people, I don't give a damn.

Do you know what is happening right now? Don't you see it?

The government is robbing us BLIND. The so called job creation going on is really the theft of the American people with the illusion that they are doing us good.

We are trading in big business for big government. Do you think EITHER of these are good?

Seriously, look at where we are right now because of both of them.

You can keep prolonging the argument until it all comes crashing down and it looks like some of you are going to do it.

In the meantime, we are all going down.

It doesn't matter who is doing it, we are being ROBBED BLIND and being made EVEN POORER by everything that is going down right now.

How many times do you people have to see it to believe it?
WE HAVE NO MONEY. THE GOVERNMENT IS CONTINUING TO BURDEN THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY.

We are all becoming the equivalent of SLAVES and so many of you just don't see it.

You've become lost in your own argument.

SEE IT FOR WHAT IT IS. PLEASE.

[edit on 15-2-2009 by David9176]

Ah, I'm so sick of this socialist crap. Say, why don't we just make socialism optional, or split the country into two, one half for those that want to leech off each other and suck the living blood out of their fellow commie pinkos, and the other half for the freedom loving and take care of your own ass crowed!

Socialism is immoral and slavery! Socialists are thieves! Socialists are leeches! Socialists are slave masters! Fact, fact, fact, FACT!

Really, I'm so sick of the GIVEME GIVEME GIVEME crowed. What a bunch of inept crybabies. Grow up humons, and stop coveting what others have and worry about taking care of your own ass and life yourself and leave everyone else alone. Gawd, I hate pinko commies.

Hey commies, get this through your thick inept skulls: I am NOT your freaking slave! You want something out of life, work for it, get it for yourself, and STOP dragging the successful down to the lowest common denominator and trying to control and regulate the lives of others. Nobody owes another human a FREE anything!

Gawd, why are their so many wussy crybaby humans on Earth today, where did they all come from? Grown adults, totally incapable of taking care of their own pitiful selves and lives. What a weak and disgusting species. Grow up pinkos, and get off everyone else's back and STOP trying to control and tell others how to live and what they should do for you. Those of you that want pinko commie socialism, why don't you just get together with your other pinko commie socialist friends and leech among yourselves. Socialists are like monkeys on everyone else's back. Socialism should be considered a nasty word!

Gee, humans disgust me (well not all, just the commie pinkos that covet and want to jack what others have for themselves and their own agendas). Grow up, pinkos, and get off everyone else's back and get your stinking thieving sticky fingers out of everyone else's pockets!

There, I said it, now I can get down off my soapbox and catch my breath.

Mate, you have been slaves all along.. and Europe isn't much better. Right
now you are just going from one slave system into the next slave system.
Big Government nor Big Business are good, but one isn't worse than the
other, they are both equally uncaring of human life and individual freedom.

But there is only one way to change it, and even though it is a cliché, it is
still the truth.. the only way to change your society is to change from with
in your own heart. If you cast off your selfishness and self protectionism,
and start caring for those around you, really caring, not just pretending to
care in order to further your gains.. then people will be inspired by your
kind heart, and will see in you an example to follow.

That way more and more people will regain the love in their cold hearts,
and they will no longer accept the cruel society they live in now, and soon
your world will start changing for the better.

Please people, stop being so cruel and selfish like you've shown to be on
this thread. Then maybe the world will start to change in a positive way..

This crap about socialism being evil, is the most retarded and misguided
humbug I have ever seen, and it seems to have infected the majority of
the American population.. how can you let this propaganda affect you in
such a terrible manner? Don't you have any insight left at all?

Do you really believe anything that the media tells you?

Apparently you do..

[edit on (15/2/09) by Wehali]

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by RubberBaron
At this time, I would recommend some trickle down economics, If we give the money and tax breaks to the rich, they will be able to make more jobs and pay us for our products.

Well that style of thinking is working great so far.

That is exactly the economic model that Our Glorious President Bush and the anointed NeoCon disciple's instituted.

Have you seen the latest unemployment stats?
www.foxnews.com...

whaaa

You don't get it do you? The proposed bail out, when you remove the pork and liberal garbage, IS TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS.

Did you miss the all the talk about TAX CUTS, Obama's speech from the CATERPILLAR FACTORY or the need to get AMERICANS BACK TO WORK?
(And yes, I am aware the CEO of Caterpillar said the stimulus package would not offset layoffs, but hey, Obama's misstep has nothing to do with sound economics)

Also, you seem to think conservative policy caused the current financial problems. Perhaps a little review:The Democrats (Clinton et al) mandated mortgages be given to folks who can't afford a home.

Some last thoughts...
China is rapidly becoming a CAPITALIST COUNTRY.
USSR has abandon much of their socialism.
Venezuela, new to socialism, IS CRUMBLING due to double digit inflation and lack of productivity.

Originally posted by Wehali
Please people, stop being so cruel and selfish like you've shown to be on
this thread. Then maybe the world will start to change in a positive way..

The only selfishness I see are the raiders of publicly held corporations, and socialists that covet and pick the pockets of others.

There is no law that states another can't become as wealthy as they please. In a capitalist society, EVERYONE is free to become quite wealthy. In a socialist society, you'll never have the chance unless you are Robbing Hoodlum himself.

There should be no excuse why anyone can't succeed in a free market capitalist society. The path to wealth is to CREATE it, NOT to pick the pockets of those that have already succeeded.

There is no socialism in America, for the worlds biggest superpower you treat some of your citizens like animals - its disgusting! Healthcare should be free of charge and there when it's needed. The greed of some people in this world I find totally demoralising, when will people learn that we only need enough to lead comfortable lives and stop placing such importance a flawed capitalist system.

Divinorumus,

No sir, people like you are the ones who are being cruel and selfish.

Not wanting to spend a single dime on welfare, not wanting to spend a
single dime on systems that support the poor, the sick and the weak,
that is pure selfishness. Because you are telling a massive amount of
people to go screw themselves.

Expressing your disgust at those who weren't as fortunate as you, who
were born with a disease or condition that prevents them from working,
or those who are discriminated and cannot find jobs, is pure cruelty. It
is no different than how Hitler treated Jews, sick and old people, colored
people and gypsies. It is no different than how Israel is treating those
who suffer and starve in Gaza..

It is pure fascism...

We know what fascism has led to in the past, and is still leading to in
Israel and some other countries. Your delusions about socialism being
evil, about a free market and capitalism being good, have taken away
all your empathy apparently.

European countries are far from perfect, they are barely acceptable
compared to what it should be really, but in comparison to America,
Europe is a thousand times better place to live in, in all aspects. Us
Europeans cannot fathom how you Americans accept the way of life
you have allowed those in charge to force upon you. What's even more
hard to understand, is how many of you even support it, despite the
inhumane way your country treats its own citizens.

All humans are equally valuable, all humans have souls, all humans
have feelings and emotions. I thought America was a Christian country,
so why are you all acting like demons? Aren't demons supposed to be
evil in your belief system?

I don't see a single Christian value reflected in your behaviour.

[edit on (15/2/09) by Wehali]

Hey, if you want a "freer" country head for Chile, they have way less taxes, regulation and a far more secure government...

Originally posted by it fit when I was a Kid
Healthcare should be free of charge and there when it's needed.

Isn't that called slavery? I mean, suppose you're a doctor, and you spent a boat load of money for your education, and not to forget all the time and effort invested too, and then someone like you expects them to work for free? How is a doctor suppose to support himself and pay his bills and provide for his family if people like you expect him to work for free? And, how is a hospital suppose to pay its bills, if people like you expect them all to provide free services? And, why stop there? Food is necessary for life too, do you want to enslave farmers too?

Sorry, but free health care should not and can not be a right either, because that means you're enslaving someone else to provide that service for free.

What do you do for a living? Suppose you make automobiles. Can I demand you provide me with a free car? Suppose you are a farmer. Can I sit on my ass and do nothing to provide for myself, other than demand you should provide me with free food?

If you make stuff free, you take away the need and incentive to work.

As far as health care, if you don't have insurance and can't afford to get your broken down butt fixed, credit should be the answer, CHARGE IT, and pay for it over time. I mean, it is YOUR problem and nobody elses. Heck, people use credit for televisions and iPods and other stupid needless crap, so why not use it for the things people REALLY need instead?

Seriously, there is no way you're gonna get doctors to work for free, it just won't work. People need to stop expecting others to take care of their problems for them and begin to take more responsibility for taking care of themselves! When you start providing things for free, you'll end up with a problem similar to that which you get when you feed the pigeons in the park.

Grow up, grown ups, and stop with your whinny little crybaby excuses and stop blaming others and expecting others to give you every damn thing you need in life, from a job to free health care. Gee, humans are becoming a bunch of incapable whinny babies. Grow up humans, grow up, and start taking responsibility for your own lives and get off everyone else's back, please, before we end up deep in some kind of civil war where the moochers and bloodsuckers end up tossed into some hole somewhere.

reply to post by Divinorumus


Free as in it is paid for through the taxation system. Here it's done through national insurance, which is a small contribution of your months pay packet - this is what pays for system to work. I will freely admit the NHS might not be the greatest thing in this world, but it provides 60 million Britons with healthcare at little cost.

Socialism is nothing to be feared, if we all took responsibility for our actions and how they affect the world we live in, things would be much more pleasant for everyone.

Originally posted by Wehali
Because you are telling a massive amount of people to go screw themselves.

The heck I am. All I'm saying is really this: GET OFF MY BACK, I'm nobodies slave, and I'm not here to serve the needs of those that would want to enslave me. Really, that's all I'm saying. It's called being FREE .. FREEDOM!

Seriously, my purpose in life is not to be your slave. My purpose in life is to take care of myself and my own.

Now, I'm not without compassion, and I am a charitable guy, but there are limits. Sure, there are a lot of people with disabilities that need some help and assistance, but there are also a lot more people without disabilities and nothing more than a long list of lame excuses that expect others to give them free stuff.

It is immoral for anyone to enslave another human for WHATEVER reason, and socialism is mandatory enslavement.

You want socialist things, then fine, go play commie with your commie friends, but if you expect to FORCE others to play commie socialism too, then YOU are wrong and acting immorally! Forced socialism is forced slavery and THAT is immoral and a FACT, without a doubt.

Seriously, you have NO RIGHT to demand or force another human do and live the way you want them to. Socialism is immoral and degrading and unproductive and ....

Ah heck, never mind. Just understand this: YOU and NOBODY ELSE have a right to FORCE ME or OTHERS to become a PINKO COMMIE and play socialism, and thus the first person that tries to put their pinko rope around my neck and pick my pockets better not turn their back to me! You want to play socialist, fine, do so among yourselves, and leave those that don't want to play that way ALONE!

You have completely and utterly not a clue about what socialism is mate.

Either your education was so bad that you were never taught about politic
systems, which considering America's schooling system is very probable, or
you allowed propaganda to completely brainwash your mind, turning you
into a zombie parrot, swallowing and repeating everything that you are told
by the government and the media.

I'm sorry to be so harsh, but the way you've crapped on people in your
posts, really blows my mind.. mostly because I feel that you actually believe
what you are writing.. that is just very hard to accept for me. I thought
only really malicious people thought the way you do, but apparently it is
quite common, considering the many people agreeing with your kind of views.

Ugh,

Goodnight

I pray that someday you may see the truth and embrace kindness again.

[edit on (15/2/09) by Wehali]

Originally posted by it fit when I was a Kid
Free as in it is paid for through the taxation system. Here it's done through national insurance, which is a small contribution of your months pay packet - this is what pays for system to work.

Free as in it is paid for through taxes? THAT is not free, ha, that's robbing Peter to pay for Pauls liposuction!

Insurance is why health care costs so damn much. I mean, when was the last time you ever seen anyone shop around for the best doctoring deal they can find? When have you ever seen FALLING PRICES at your local hospital because they had to compete with other hospitals by keeping their expenses inline and reasonable?

I have an idea .. make everyone pay for their own darn doctor bills themselves and do away with all this health insurance and medicaid nonsense. And, again, the solution for those that haven't the cash in the bank when they need care, tell them to use their credit card! Credit should be used only for emergencies anyhow, and not for all this needless junk that people can't afford such as iPods and toasters.

This idea of insurance has allowed the medical industry to basically charge whatever they want, and most people don't even care, because they know they aren't paying for it.

I mean, food is more important than health care, and we don't use insurance to feed ourselves. Imagine though if food became part of the health care industry and paid for by insurance, how much do you think lunch would cost? How much do you think food insurance would cost everyone? What does a hospital lunch cost anyhow these days, does anyone know?

Nope, what we need is more personal responsibility and accountability.

Oh, and look at how many people do not even take good care of themselves. Look at how many couch potatoes are out there that don't exercise every day, and they overeat, and they smoke and drink, and have unprotected sex, and worse. Now, imagine if YOU were responsible for every dime of your health care, would you take better care of yourself? Insurance takes the worry out of over eating because everyone knows their neighbors will have to pay for their bypass surgery instead of themselves.

MORE personal responsibility and accountability!!!! DO NOT feed the pigeons!

Originally posted by Wehali
You have completely and utterly not a clue about what socialism is mate.

I don't care what socialism is or isn't. Just understand this: Leave me OUT of all that. Really, it's that simple. Define socialism however you please, I DO NOT care how you want to define it, because I do NOT want to become one, regardless of how you define it. Really, if you want to play socialism, go ahead, more power to you and those that like to play that way, I won't stand in your way, you need not worry about me. Just leave it OPTIONAL and DO NOT force those that do not want to play commie to do so. See how easy that was? You can begin your new life as a commie tomorrow for all I care, just do not force me or others to become one .. OR ELSE! I mean, can't you make socialism work without ME and the others that don't want to play those slaving games? If you can't, then I'm gonna jump off a bridge and put and instant end to all of this socialist enslavement nonsense, ha.

reply to post by Wehali


I'm just wondering have you ever been or lived in America? It doesn't sound like you have.

I don't think you have ever been to the grocery store stood behind somebody inline that pays for their food in food stamps while they are wearing brand new clothes and 100 dollar Nike's, then they walk out to the parking lot and hop in their brand new Cadillac or there old school Caprice Classic with 24" rims with a brand new paint job and a sound system that you can hear a mile away.

I don't think you realize that poor people here choose to be poor. There is this thing I like to call personal responsibility that should be fundamental and everybody's thinking.

You admit in an early post that European countries are not the best and can be a lot better. You also state that the health care is not that great.

You are trying to justify these mediocre things because they make you feel good.

If people are taught personal responsibility from an early age the state of the world would not be such a terrible place that you say it is.

Originally posted by Divinorumus

I don't care what socialism is or isn't. Just understand this: Leave me OUT of all that. Really, it's that simple. Define socialism however you please, I DO NOT care how you want to define it, because I do NOT want to become one, regardless of how you define it.

If you pay income tax, or pay into the social security fund, Or use roads paid for by taxes or use any type of government sponsored program, like public schools then you are playing the Socialist game.

sniff, sniff.....I smell a hypocrite!!

Those things you guys argue about are only the byproducts of mixed economic systems like we have today. And since our government schools propagate and endorse this system wholesale, it's no wonder we have people like whaaa and Divinorumus going at it.

I challenge both of you to deny ignorance. You are the archetypal partisan fools. You butcher your own ideologies with incorrect reasons. Divinorumus does this with socialism, and whaaa does it with capitalism. Again, fools.

What if I challenged both of you to see the other viewpoint as the most utilitarian, therefore, of the most beneficial system to implement. But of course, that's a huge axiom to order from either of you, isn't it?

Whaaa, here's what capitalism is not:

-Exploitation of the proletariat. That's corporatism. Trickle-down economics DOES work, the problem is we haven't had that and anyone who tells you we tried it is a liar. Even your savior, Obama.

Divinorumus, socialism is not:

-The exploitation of the successful. In fact, it is based on a meritocratic system which stresses the same ethic of hard work as in capitalism. Those who don't work are not rewarded by the group benefits. Both rely on some degree of faith, the only issue is how they deal with that faith in exchange of capital.

Socialism does it by obligation to a trade/union/collective. Capitalism does it on a slightly more rational model where obligations are universally traded.

Either one in perfect implementation would be preferrable to what we have and would not make us any more slaves than we are now.

And Wehali, perhaps you need to understand that the more money someone has, the more money they can devote to charity rather than inflating wasteful welfare systems as in your european "social democracies". In truth, social democracies are much closer to communism than socialism.

[edit on 2/15/2009 by SpencerJ]

Originally posted by SpencerJ
Whaaa, here's what capitalism is not:

-Exploitation of the proletariat. That's corporatism. Trickle-down economics DOES work, the problem is we haven't had that and anyone who tells you we tried it is a liar. Even your savior, Obama.

Well, you almost seemed credible until you called Obama MY savior. I didn't vote for Obama; I voted against Sarah Palin.