Rapelay virtual rape game banned by Amazon

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
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Are you for banning this game?

I am for banning the game if it is brought into this country and sold. What Japan does is up to Japan.

It isnt what I would find ideal however. I would find it ideal if people realized that games that show classes of people being humiliated and victimized are not entertaining and refused to buy it. That would be ideal. Because then the whole group would not need to give up some freedom over a few people with horrible judgment and no regard for the feelings of others.

Many of the supporters of the game keep saying "but we arent going to go rape someone just because of a game, D'uh people!" Which only shows their selfishness. It isnt all about the people playing the game. It is about the people who are members of the class that that game advocates humiliating and victimizing too.

Ever heard the term hostile work environment? Know what it means? It means that your speech, actions, behaviors, even if not directed at a specific individual can make that individuals life very uncomfortable. Now granted, those laws apply to work places, but take that same concept, that the speech, actions and behavior of others can affect other people nearby, innocent bystanders, and try to understand that this isnt all about the gamer.

If society stands by and says "well, its ok to have games that glorify raping women and young girls," that sends a message to women and young girls who may never play that game about how society values them. What protections they can expect.

Banning all images of rape may not end all rapes, but do you really think that if we started publicizing rape as a fun thing to do, nobody minds it, and saturated the media with rape as a sport it would not increase? If you do you have lost your mind. Why on Earth do advertisers spend billions of dollars saturating us with messages and images if they have no impact on us?

Its more than just parents watching their children. Which I completely agree that they should. Children should not be exposed to as much violence as they are as young as they are. It does desensitize. And the military knows it. They are developing their own games, and are happy as can be with all the violent video games doing part of their training for them.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Lt. Col. Scott Sutton, director of the technology division at Quantico Marine Base, where the mock-up M16s are used, says soldiers in this generation "probably feel less inhibited, down in their primal level, pointing their weapons at somebody." That, in effect, "provides a better foundation for us to work with," he adds.

So advertisers feel saturating people with images and messages influences them. And the military feels playing violent games makes soldiers less inhibited about killing people. But the young people who play the games say it doesnt effect them. Who do you really think is more likely to be right? The people looking at the actual raw data in terms of performance? Be it sales or warfare? Or the kid sitting on the couch?

reply to post by wolf241e


This is a very common theme in Japanese animation, one of the long running titles is a character called Rapeman. Says a lot about that culture!

Here's a novel theory (As well as a response to all detractors)

Why don't we actually punish people who have done something wrong, or committed an act which overtly harms someone?

SpinkyBoo: You want to equate the feelings of hurt that raped people have about there being a game which openly has rape as a plot point to the actual act of raping a person.

If you do not, then you are only advocating that it is harmful. I don't count people's feelings getting hurt as actual harm... and I remember quite vividly the kind of thoughts I had during my teenage years (Fortunately enough I survived them). Sticks and Stones can break my Bones but words can never hurt me. Specifically adults and self-righteous sorts need to grow up and realize that thoughts belong to a person, and promoting an act is not the same as committing an act... Adults need to grow up and realize that people are responsible for their own actions and nobody else is. (End reply to Spinkyboo)

If I had a life where I was abused by alcoholic parents, sexually molested and many other things... if I end up doing something, it isn't on my situation, it is on ME. It was my choice to allow those influences to become a reason for my actions, and if I succumb to such a situation, it is no fault of the elements which contributed... it is entirely my own fault.

Because there are many people who thrive in situations that "Create" monsters... and they grow up to be normal people (If there ever was such a thing).

Sumner Kagan: Political correctness and forcing people to change their entire behavior in order not to offend or please others is one of the things that *I* think is destroying society by creating emotionally weak people who are never forced to handle a true difference of opinion. Everybody wants their feelings treated like a glass music box.

You, as well as others have changed the argument from "This is recognized as wrong" to "This is harmful spiritually or hurts people's emotions".

I do not draw a line about any subject that is not an overt act which hurts someone. If it hurts someone's sensibilities, don't only sell it, actively promote it to murder those sensibilities; it is the only way to destroy the self-righteous pricks who go about creating laws about thoughts and behaviors that hurt nobody.

I am against more laws to dictate behavior, I am against stupid people boycotting items because they think it'll hurt their "Children". If any of them were raising their children properly, they wouldn't have to worry; what it truly signifies is such parents are incompetent, or are afraid that they are terrible as parents.

I am by far not a perfect parent, but if my son ever encounters something that I would deem harmful (either here or at a friends house), it isn't my responsibility to make sure he never hangs out with that friend again. It is my responsibility for me to put it in perspective for him. Now, if it is something that is overtly harmful (The friend's parent likes the sauce and gets fisty when they're on the buzz), then it *IS* my responsibility to insure that he is not physically harmed, which could be preventing him from going to the friends house...

But if he doesn't respect my wishes, he will go there anyways. So ultimately, there is nothing I can do with my son but educate him and try to make sure he can defend himself. You cannot control people.

Illusionsaregrander:

Yes, I am that "Guy". I am that person that will defend every single sexual perversion till the end of my days. I will defend and uphold all things that people attack as thought crime... because none of you have any right or place to determine what is right and wrong for all of humanity.

You decide what is right for you and yours, if you can do that. (I frankly have no confidence in your ability to force your views even on your spouse or children, because they are also human beings).

I will defend the people with rape fantasies, the people who write erotic stories about practically anything, the people who create games, holodeck programs, or anything else that helps people get their jollies off...

because as long as they aren't actually doing something physically to someone, they should be free to do everything they like... own everything they like... look at anything they like and enjoy it to the fullest extent of their existence.

Where I do draw a line? Acts that harm a person physically. Acts that step on people's will and freedom. Laws were made to protect both physical goods as well as individuals from physical harm.

However, our society has created a whole subsection of law which seeks to police human thought itself, and criminalizes behaviors that do not affect anyone but which society finds abhorrent.

I am a breaker of social contracts, someone who does not respect the society we have made for ourselves because I see it as weak and poisonous; it is a slow acting infection which eats away at our extremities while people such as yourself scream obscenities about the obscene.

The cacophony of litigious little-minded lilliputians who believe that normality is envious, that sexual deviancy is harmful and soul-crushing, that people who actively promote the different and interesting are enemies of the state.

I am a social terrorist, wishing to blow up preconceived notions and to decimate the moral majority. I am a jihadist against western supremacy and it's bloody history of taking different people's and either devouring them or outright destroying their entire way of life... because they had the audacity to not LIKE the "civilized" offer of submission that was pushed on them.

Originally posted by secretagent woooman
This is a very common theme in Japanese animation, one of the long running titles is a character called Rapeman. Says a lot about that culture!

Dont forget entire titles dedicated to molesting girls on trains!

But yeah, their culture is totally different when it comes to sexual fiction. The subject is completely taboo in most of the world, but in Japan it got its own anime section.

And if its any US peeps trying to argue it... Oh boy. Arguing hentai with a nation that consider a black guy doing humping motions on a fully clothed female is an abomination to God is quite futile (ie Hot Coffe).

This game was released 4/21/2006.............such outrage 3 years later?

delius


[edit on 15-2-2009 by delius]

What's the big deal, its standard japanese porn. Heck normally there would be tenticle rape or women with cat ears or "loli", "futa", ect. It's just fantasy, who cares?

reply to post by wolf241e


What I want to know is what is Japan's facination with rape? Their pornography is filled with it. Not that I would know......

Theres THOUSANDS of women get raped everyday in real life but you people would rather put your attention and anger to stop VIRTUAL women getting raped?

And no, playing video games does not influence people to do crazy things, its just what they say in court to get off easily. That whole arguement is a load of bollocks to be quite frank. Anyone that kills someone with an axe and blames it on ManHunt, is clearly very disturbed anyway.

Trying to blame video games for EVERYTHING that goes on in society these days is just another step to censoring as much media as possible.

Originally posted by gnosis111
reply to post by wolf241e

 

What I want to know is what is Japan's facination with rape? Their pornography is filled with it. Not that I would know......

Busted!

[edit on 15/2/09 by Liamoville]

Not to state the obvious, but rape is portrayed repeatedly in Japanese entertainment, and nobody bats an eyelid at it.

I think it's understood that it's just something "for the men" or whatever, and isn't taken very seriously. Having said that, Japan I think has one of the highest amounts of rapes in the world, so this should be ringing someones alarm bells. I wonder why nobody seems to care about it.

As for that stuff about, well rape isn't as bad as murder and we murder plenty in videogames, etc etc. I was thinking of saying something along the same lines myself, but it's really a terrible argument. There is no real good justification, that even the most ardent opponent of censorship could come up with to defend this piece of garbage game.

edit:

Appears I had the whole thing reversed, Japan has some of the lowest rapes (reported ones at least) Perhaps the amount of rape portrayed in cartoons etc has some kind of theraputic effect that stops men needing to go out and actually do it.

Taken from Google answers, which isn't neccessarily the most reliable site for information, but I think this is pretty accurate:

Rape per 100,000.
1. United States 34.20
2. England and Wales 14.69
3. France 13.38
Taiwan 8.82
South Korea 4.38
Spain 3.23
Japan 1.48

[edit on 15-2-2009 by Lazyninja]

reply to post by Lazyninja


lazyninja i was about to post the same exact thing. I have an japanese friend that always jokes that "raping some one is like saying "hello" in japan" because of all the rape depicted in movies, cartoons, games, comic books and the general media. But like you already said. Maybe that's why their rape rate is so low . . . all those would be rapists are getting their fix.

[edit on 2/15/2009 by JPhish]

I would like to know, if 'Hate Speech' or inciting hatred or acts of violence against any group of the community is ILLEGAL in most civilised countries, why is a game like this, which incites violent crimes against one section of the community, women and girls, NOT ILLEGAL!

Prosecute the designers, producers and distributors of this evil game.

Is it only Muslims, Jewish peoples and Christians who can be protected from Hate crimes?
What about women?
Do they not count?

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Just a quick note, the "Manhunt killing" in the UK is a poor example of a game influencing a person because it was the VICTIM, and not the killer, who owned and played the game. Certain newspapers (or rather, tabloids), decided to misreport it because a game-motivated killing sells more papers than a theft motivated killing.

ok, the replies here are just amusing. The slander and libel are flying free and the half baked opinions are almost as amusing as their general socially nieve commentary here.

It's a game, and it sells, and there's much much worse out there, but it doesn't show up on the holy shelves of Best Buy or K-Mart so it's obviously never existed before, right?

Of course, you want dark, twisted and evil? Lets write a game wher eyou can form lynch mobs, and hunt down people who don't conform to the secret unwritten code. sure, the bad guys look lik emonsters to you but you look the same to them. You can launch prooganda and call them child molesters, and ridicule them and later hunt them down and have public executions.

Controversial game developers can be your target in the training mission, maybe then move up to things like bisexuals, or worse, those obviously evil and perverted sicko psychopaths who down like the sitcom 'Friends"

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
reply to post by AshleyD

 

Yeah, I realize that.

I am just asking for to much...I am personally "desensitized" to many bad things. Violence, rape, criminal activity, etc. Not that I support it one bit - but we as a society are not attacking the problems at the roots.

Banning this game will not do anything but take away more freedoms.

We could have the game so people who wish to play it for leisure could, while also not getting any motivation of rape. How? Parenting!

I am just asking for to much...Hollywood and MSM runs what we deem good or bad, and if we do not like something nowadays, we just want it to go poof.

Perhaps some of our "freedoms" should be taken away. Where does this criminality stop? We wonder what is wrong with societies? Come on people. I'm a liberal, but this is dispicable.

This is going off a post I saw somewhere else but didn't the gun crimes sky rocket in the UK once it was made illegal?

Didn't the culture of alcohol SKY ROCKET when prohibition was in effect?

(As posted), does Japan not have very low rape victims, even with all the depicted rape games?

I will still stand by my thought that the people who want every single thing in this world that does not bloom flowers banned are ones that can not take self responsibility.

TheColdDragon - I could not agree with you more. We would only help the cause that we are breeding a nation of over-sensitive losers if we would ban this game. Somehow though, people still think that putting a curtain over "evil" makes it go away. All it does in reality is put a curtain over our own eyes, that stops us from seeing the truth.

For those who want this game banned - grow up and mature. Teach your kids to do the same and we will not have any (more) problems.

To whoever said this game is 2 years old...the idea at hand here is whether it is okay. Not if we should all go out and ban it. Whether or not the article is old, it sparks good talk.

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
reply to post by SumnerKagan

 

Understandable.

I still must ask...

Would you be in favor of banning things like this? Do you not think that doing such a thing would only lead to other "questionable" leisure activities from being banned?

Do you think the creators of this game are criminals?

Hard question to answer.
I put it in the same category as Nazis circulating their sickness.

I see this as a type of "education". Today, everything that is available to us has been structured, packaged, marketed, and delivered in a way that actually programs, creates or enslaves a customer base.

For those of you saying the Japanese should make games where you rape men so men know how it feels to have a game like this made about them,

I hate to break it to you but they've already been there, several times.

There are games where you rape men from Japan, and a sizable portion of Japan's female gamers have been known to play them (as well as men).

These kinds of games have existed for decades in Japan and are nothing new, the only reason there has been such an outburst of controversy around this particular title is because Amazon.com was selling it.


Also, about 'Women Only' train carriages in Japan, not all Japanese men go around touching girls on trains,

more recently they have introduced "Mens Only" carriages on some trains, as the number of innocent men being accused of sexual molestation was increasing as girls were trying to extort men for cash.


Although in Japan, where these games have been readily available since forever - the amount of rape cases is low compared to neighboring countries where such games are not available.

Instilling morals into people as they grow up is the key!
Banning something that has a statistically small chance of "corrupting" someone is the easy way out;
and with something like this it could be said that it is unconstitutional and is going against freedom of creativity, expression and speech.

reply to post by SumnerKagan


I never truly understood the whole "media" controls us.

We have free will still. You are acting like all of your choices and opinions have been formed by movies, shows, and games.

For the millionth time, it is up to PARENTS to inform CHILDREN on the rights and wrongs. Not let them watch (insert show here) all day and act just like it.

Once again...blaming it on the media in terms of influence. Ugh.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

You are right, banning games sets a precedent. And if Rapelay is the game that infuriates the average citizen enough to scream out for tighter controls on violence in games then so be it...

...dont blame the average citizen, you can place the blame squarely on the people who pushed until society pushed back.

...Freedom isnt something you just run around with like a lunatic trampling all over everyone else in the group. It is a responsibility as well as a privilege...

...And guess what. You are just flat wrong. In society, other people DO get a say in the kind of behavior we will and will not accept from members of the group. The idea of individuality at all costs is ridiculous. No society has ever had that...

Illusions - this isn't a reply so much as I just felt like quoting you :-)

but I wanted to say - yes - this is the thing - isn't it?

the boundaries get pushed, we reexamine the boundaries - the boundaries are redetermined - by society - by the group (if we're lucky)

freedom isn't about being able to do anything one wants to do whenever or however one wants to do it - we decide what freedom is as a group

again - if we're fortunate enough to have a system in place that permits society to have the final say

I'm a pretty big supporter of freedom of speech - and of freedom - period

we have to tolerate what we have to tolerate - right up to that point where we stop tolerating it - together - as a community

immediately after that decision has been made - people are free to push the boundaries again - and the whole process begins anew

having read through this thread I have to say - being free to create, sell and play games where an individual is free to violate and abuse women - even if they are only virtual women - for sport - is not something I can support (she says - with an amazing amount of restraint)

it's a despicable concept - with despicable consequences

maybe you have to be a woman to really appreciate that point of view

edit to add: I apologize to the many, many men in this world who don't actually need to be a woman to realize what's wrong with this

[edit on 2/15/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

reply to post by TheColdDragon

I am a social terrorist, wishing to blow up preconceived notions and to decimate the moral majority. I am a jihadist against western supremacy and it's bloody history of taking different people's and either devouring them or outright destroying their entire way of life... because they had the audacity to not LIKE the "civilized" offer of submission that was pushed on them.

bully for you

me too - what a coincidence

although - I'm not really so much into the terrorist approach - I prefer a more honorable approach - out in the open - where people can actually see us

see you on the battlefield



[edit on 2/15/2009 by Spiramirabilis]