Rapelay virtual rape game banned by Amazon

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


I'm sorry, but either:

a. There is something wrong with you, and you can't see the difference between playing a game as a hero battling evil forces, other heroes or criminals, etc.

or

b. You are simply not really reading the posts, and don't fully understand the views of the people that are against this.

You are a classic example of what our present culture is doing to people. You have lost the ability to see the line between right and wrong.

Dude, there really IS a "wrong". And it isn't what you think it is.


I know you don't see it, but you are championing something that is all wrong. To turn rape into entertainment, is a very bad sign for us all.

reply to post by SumnerKagan


If some people aren't capable of seeing right and wrong, than Right and Wrong are definitionally a SUBJECTIVE element in human perception.

Otherwise, everyone would be pre-programmed to know one from the other. So either people are lying when they say they don't think it is wrong, or you are false in your assumption that it is an inherant thing.

You know, I could cite studies done about tribal societies, I could relate the differences between disparate cultures like the middle east and western culture... I could even make the case for subsets of society that ImaginaryReality has alluded to in the Sadist/Masochism scene.

I've mentioned a fractional subset of the things that people frequently masturbate to, things from murder to crapping into someone's mouth that let's people get an orgasm because it is just what gets them hot...

There is no right or wrong. There is only harm and hate... and some day, when people are able to know what the people around them are thinking, people such as yourself will go mad when you realize that practically every male around you has such fantasies, practically every female has some sort of twisted kink, practically every human being doesn't know what "RIGHT" is...

because it doesn't exist. Moral Absolutism is a sham and a crock...

and moreso, people whose own personal experiences forever color their perceptions of the world around them. People who were raped... they cannot have an objective conversation about anything related to it.

They are functionally broken on the conversational topic, and shouldn't be allowed to open their mouths unless they can distance themselves from their own experiences. The same goes for anyone else.

What I feel should happen, though, won't. Because while I feel it should happen (At least to give me a bit of peace of mind), they are given the right to believe what they wish to believe.

You can't make a plea to emotions, because you are advocating a dull sameness which infects and kills and paralyzes. You want people to know what you think is "Right". You want people to behave how you believe is "Right", you want people never to do what you think is "Wrong"...

but you can't control people without enslaving yourself.

Keep paving that road, sunshine. Keep paving it with those good intentions.

I'll see you at the end of it, damned soul that I am.

Believe it or not, this could have some sort of good in it. What I mean is if people who have the impulse to rape are able to see their mucked up fantasies "come true" (sort of), it might make them stray from their desires. Maybe? I don't think I'm explaining my thoughts well, hopefully someone will understand what I mean ^_^

On the flip side, people have been turning games into real life...People going on rampages like in GTA (it's happened believe it or not), or people going into dark rooms munching pills and listening to repetitive music (guess what game? heh).

BTW I don't support rape at all.

I cannot believe that things like this have been integrated into our current reality.

I try to think of words to describe the madness of a concept such as this. The human psyche is very ill. Fantasy and reality are one in the same now. This does not in any way help us progress. It delays our detoxification process.

We no longer have need for any type of violence in our world, why do people not see this?

This game is not much more terrible than so many other games out there, but still an abomination.

The only thing we can really do is just stop continuing the cycle. Stop introducing violent concepts to ourselves, stop watching it, stop listening to it, stop buying it, stop it from seeping into our collective unconscience.

Talk will always be cheap, start drawing the lines. Stand firm. Be strong.

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
reply to post by SumnerKagan

 

If some people aren't capable of seeing right and wrong, than Right and Wrong are definitionally a SUBJECTIVE element in human perception.

Otherwise, everyone would be pre-programmed to know one from the other. So either people are lying when they say they don't think it is wrong, or you are false in your assumption that it is an inherant thing.

um, yeah. I've heard that before. And, it seems that people will keep saying that over and over. That is, until somebody "wrongs" them.
Then, things suddenly change.

Keep paving that road, sunshine. Keep paving it with those good intentions.

I'll see you at the end of it, damned soul that I am.

Ooohhh. You think I'm "that guy". I see. No, no, no. You have me all wrong.
You see, I'm not the "that guy". The one that is trying to change the world, or the one that believes everybody should have the same mind-set, or believe in the same God, etc. Nope.

I'm the guy that can't stand people that are turning the world into an even worse sewer than it already is. People like you, who are doing all they can to make sure the world my child is growing up in, is without honor, security, morals and future.

I don't believe that people should change, for the sake of their souls, or tradition.
I think things need to change for the sake of our survival.

Originally posted by SumnerKagan
um, yeah. I've heard that before. And, it seems that people will keep saying that over and over. That is, until somebody "wrongs" them.
Then, things suddenly change.

Which only makes those people that change their minds when they are wronged hypocrites and cowards for not sticking to their word and beliefs.

Either that or incapable of perceiving themselves in a situation they happen to be defending.

I'm not one of those people.

Ooohhh. You think I'm "that guy". I see. No, no, no. You have me all wrong.
You see, I'm not the "that guy". The one that is trying to change the world, or the one that believes everybody should have the same mind-set, or believe in the same God, etc. Nope.

No, you aren't "That guy" you're describing. You're the guy I'm describing, "That Guy" who believes somehow that they are right, that the world is a cesspool, and that this is evidence of it.

You are "That Guy" who thinks that there was some good time for humanity, or that there are good people. There aren't. There are only people, and the sooner you realize that, the sooner you can stop proselytizing against sexual deviation.

I'm the guy that can't stand people that are turning the world into an even worse sewer than it already is. People like you, who are doing all they can to make sure the world my child is growing up in, is without honor, security, morals and future.

So we have the option of dying in our own filth, or living in eternal slavery to those who determine what "Normal" is.

Give me death... it seems the only free choice to make. Then I can die as a human being, and leave this haters paradise of self righteous moral superiority.

I don't believe that people should change, for the sake of their souls, or tradition.
I think things need to change for the sake of our survival.

You aren't advocating change. You're advocating more of the same fear mongering, hate-filled, witch-burning, head-hunting, crusade-marching, Druid killing, Cathar slaughtering, Inquisition making, racial-supremacy preaching insolence of the entire western culture.

You aren't any better than the worst filth that you can imagine... humble yourself, and get out of your ivory tower.

I'm not either, but I don't pretend that I am.

Edit to add: I am the parent of an almost five year old child... whom I take responsibility for, and as a single parent, whom I care for deeply. It is not the worlds responsibility to protect my child, and it also isn't my responsibility to protect him. It is my responsibility to prepare him for the world, not to shelter and hide his eyes from the ugliness of it. It is my responsibility to give him the tools and the knowledge necessary to succeed... and if he fails, it is all on me.

Nobody else.


[edit on 14-2-2009 by TheColdDragon]

Do not use words as weapons. Use them as a tool for understanding and change.

There are hostilities here that are not needed. We see the world we live. We don't need to further violence online towards our fellow man. This is absurdity.

Agree to disagree, that is normal and healthy. But do not wage war against those who do not see the way as yourself. Be aware of that which is thought before that which you do. Be responsible for yourself and nobody else.

And a question for dragon, what would failure of your child be in your eyes?

Originally posted by TheColdDragon

"I don't think it could be made any more clear by anyone on this thread or elsewhere that these things are not aimed at children, they are aimed at adults.

Would you give a five year old a kitchen knife as a birthday present? Would you let your eight year old drive in NASCAR? Do you, or anyone, sit down every saturday and watch porn with your nine year old?"

I knew you were going to get me on that child sentence. : )

Are they aimed at children? Maybe not - Accessible to children? Absolutely
Do their dads play these games in the basement?
Do their older peers/siblings have a copy?

If you're 18 - does that mean you are old enough to get one for yourself? Do you not think an 18 year old is still gathering vital information about him/herself and the world around him/herself? Do you not think that playing one of these games at this age (or younger) will influence the way he thinks about rape and societies acceptance of it.

Come on. Really? Is that's how you believe?

I know how video games get into kids hands, the same way that alcohol, cigarettes, and drugs do. - Kids are good at getting anything they want. I was.

"I have been on the internet for a long, long time... and I've met people who have tastes that are so out of field of normal that most of those who are outraged here would be horrified or terrified"

I am not one of those people.

"just understand that most of the people who fantasize about how it would be fun to do something aren't the same as the people who would actually go out and do the thing."

It's bigger than that. It's a despicable, horrible act. It causes great pain. It's a criminal thing to do to another human being. Why produce a product that spreads something so vile? For the sake of a few fantasies?

"]It's really about the anger people feel at someone enjoying something that doesn't hurt anyone except for people's feelings... "

It hurts a whole society of people.
It isn't small that we are making "games" out of something so brutal.

"But if you or anyone decides to make it about yourselves, and what you think is moral/right/good and forcibly impose your morality on people who enjoy who they are, you are going to only increase the suffering in the world for yourself and others."

This is not about me or any one persons quirks and fantasies.

It's about having respect for an already struggling species.
And finding those things that build us up instead of tear us down.
We are already too good at tearing down and numbing out -
and frankly - it is killing us.









[edit on 14-2-2009 by spinkyboo]

reply to post by SumnerKagan


I will agree with you that to make a game like this is "wrong".

But the thing is, anyone with the capabilities to make games can do this. It is the jobs of stores not to sell such content. For stores around me (GameStop, Bestbuy, etc), they do not sell games that are rated above M (Mature +17).

So, my point is that even though the game was made, there should not have been any stores to even sell such a thing.

I was frustrated by the person saying that the creators of this game are pedophiles/rapists. The designers of such a game only get despise from me - but if they want to make a game like this so what? Does not mean (and should not mean) it is going to be sold at a store near you.

There is no need to criminalize the creators though. Yes, I think they are a bit coo coo for making a game like this (Keep in mind this is not a simple program, I am sure it took a while to make...), but none the less, they did not do anything wrong (legally). Morally though - EH. That is their choice to live bad morales though.

reply to post by TheColdDragon

Instead of replying to each of your points, I will just say this:

I am in no ivory tower. Accepting everything is not a responsible action.
My idea of "responsibility" is to actually try and fix things that need fixing.
Regardless of who is telling me to close my eyes, look the other way, and go back to sleep.

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
reply to post by SumnerKagan

 

I will agree with you that to make a game like this is "wrong".

But the thing is, anyone with the capabilities to make games can do this. It is the jobs of stores not to sell such content. For stores around me (GameStop, Bestbuy, etc), they do not sell games that are rated above M (Mature +17).

So, my point is that even though the game was made, there should not have been any stores to even sell such a thing.

I was frustrated by the person saying that the creators of this game are pedophiles/rapists. The designers of such a game only get despise from me - but if they want to make a game like this so what? Does not mean (and should not mean) it is going to be sold at a store near you.

There is no need to criminalize the creators though. Yes, I think they are a bit coo coo for making a game like this (Keep in mind this is not a simple program, I am sure it took a while to make...), but none the less, they did not do anything wrong (legally). Morally though - EH. That is their choice to live bad morales though.

I understand where you are coming from.
There are always going to be at least 2 sides to a situation like this.
I have to choose to oppose it.

reply to post by TheColdDragon


Great post!

The problem with society today is it is the parents blaming everything else for the faults of the world, when in reality, it is their own damn fault for a children's upbringing.

Every time something is banned - it only leads to the banning of the next item on the list. Once we all learn responsibility, then we will have the opportunity to live how we want.

Criminalize faster than you can create, and you will not be able to do nothing.

reply to post by SumnerKagan


Understandable.

I still must ask...

Would you be in favor of banning things like this? Do you not think that doing such a thing would only lead to other "questionable" leisure activities from being banned?

Do you think the creators of this game are criminals?

reply to post by TheColdDragon


You know what guy I think you are? The guy who has to defend all forms of "sexual deviation" by proselytizing to others from some moral high ground so that they can feel good about yourself. Because you do realize your stand that no one has any right to criticize another or say what people can and cannot do in society is a moral high ground dont you? You are doing the exact same thing anyone of us here is doing.

And guess what. You are just flat wrong. In society, other people DO get a say in the kind of behavior we will and will not accept from members of the group. The idea of individuality at all costs is ridiculous. No society has ever had that. What fantasy have you been living in?

There are "criminal" behaviors. Why? Because we collectively say so. And if we wanted, we could make that game criminal in the US too. We could decide to make Pong criminal if we collectively agreed to. When people live in groups, and individuals benefit from the collective, some individual rights are given up in exchange for that collective benefit. If you want individuality at all costs fine. Go have it. Alone. Because you never get it in groups, so dont kid yourself.

And you know who is really to blame for society having to pass millions of nitpicky little laws and limit freedom for everyone? Let me give you a hint, its not the average citizen who would never make a rape game, it the people who take the freedoms we have and abuse them out of pure self interest. You see it in workplaces, have a lenient late policy? A forgiving boss? One or two selfish people will abuse that freedom till it is rescinded for everyone. So dont blame everyone else. Its the envelope pushers who cause the backlashes that end up limiting freedoms, not the average person with some common sense about how far to go.


[edit on 14-2-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by _Phoenix_


Today's children are tomorrow's adults. This "game" is morally reprehensible. Anyone who "plays" rape games and thinks it won't affect them, makes me beg the question what is wrong with that person? Why would someone want to rape? It is my understanding that in this rape "game" there is a gang rape...........nice, what a touch of class. Wonder what moms, sisiters and wives are thinking about this?

Everyday at the school where I teach, I see boys hitting girls , touching girls, and making rude comments to them. Their explanation? They see it on their video games. To them, it's no big deal.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by TheColdDragon

 

And you know who is really to blame for society having to pass millions of nitpicky little laws and limit freedom for everyone? Let me give you a hint, its not the average citizen who would never make a rape game, it the people who take the freedoms we have and abuse them out of pure self interest. You see it in workplaces, have a lenient late policy? A forgiving boss? One or two selfish people will abuse that freedom till it is rescinded for everyone. So dont blame everyone else. Its the envelope pushers who cause the backlashes that end up limiting freedoms, not the average person with some common sense about how far to go.

There is something called a precedent.

We will use games as an example (Grand Theft Auto specifically since it is so well known).

There is still some sort of morale ground for the game to be built on. If there wasn't, then in the game, MANY more degrading acts could be done on top of what is already in it. For almost all of the population, a game like this could be played knowing that it is not real. Hence, it is amusing to perform acts that one would never do in real life.

I do not see posts about all the games that have killing in them. Do you not think that it is worse or along the same line as rape? Should we ban all games that have that too? IMO, we should not. It is a very big entertainment industry, and almost everyone that plays the game knows the difference from reality.

Same goes with a game like this. Some people might find the game fun. Does that mean that same person thinks acts in the game would correspond to the same acts in real life on a level of enjoyment? I doubt that. Otherwise, we would have everyone playing games like Grand Theft Auto, out there killing every single person they see.

But when we outlaw a game like this, it sets a precedent. It only limits our freedoms, because the few who reenact these acts in real life will ruin it for the rest of us. We stop that by putting them in jail.

More than likely you will reply to me with pointing out what I said is common sense. It is. There is just such a high hatred towards "rape" in our society (there should be on some level), but getting rid of it from games and movies will not make it go away.

The ones of us defending this game are not defending rape. We are defending the responsibility it is of parents to raise a child who can distinguish the difference from virtual reality from reality; fake from real. There are millions of people who enjoy games for the obscene, violent acts, they portray. Are all those people corrupt? I doubt it. Most of them probably have jobs and live normal lives.

Ban this game and the publishers, then what will be the next sensitive issue?

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist

But when we outlaw a game like this, it sets a precedent. It only limits our freedoms, because the few who reenact these acts in real life will ruin it for the rest of us. We stop that by putting them in jail.

You are right, banning games sets a precedent. And if Rapelay is the game that infuriates the average citizen enough to scream out for tighter controls on violence in games then so be it. And guess what? If the ban stick starts coming down because of that game, my guess is it is going to hit games that are already borderline like GTA. And when it does, dont blame the average citizen, you can place the blame squarely on the people who pushed until society pushed back.

Freedom isnt something you just run around with like a lunatic trampling all over everyone else in the group. It is a responsibility as well as a privilege. Its people who dont realize the responsibility aspect that end up costing everyone more freedom. Not the ones who exercise their freedoms responsibly.

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
I do not see posts about all the games that have killing in them. Do you not think that it is worse or along the same line as rape?

I think I can answer that. It's because we have all been saturated with violence which has resulted in us being desensitized to it. Seeing a person murdered in a horror film would not affect a 40 year old man today in the same way it would have affected him if he had watched the same scene at the age of ten.

So now we shrug it off as a whole when we see violence. But such is not the case with rape just yet because it is still taboo and not glorified in entertainment but it looks like that time is not too far off when it eventually will be.

Pay special attention to movies where something like the pet always survives. 50 people will be slashed up and killed on screen but the dog, cat, or other furry critter makes it to the end. Why? Because we have not been desensitized to animal cruelty. Or rape. Or child molestation.

Just violence for now. But it is a slippery slope.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I see what you are saying.

This goes back to my one of my original points though...it is not the game that is "raping", it is the people. Good parenting will prevent such people.

Getting rid of games/movies that show/reenact rape will not make it go away or help on a realistic level.

Sometimes society does not understand personal responsibility...

Are you for banning this game?

reply to post by AshleyD


Yeah, I realize that.

I am just asking for to much...I am personally "desensitized" to many bad things. Violence, rape, criminal activity, etc. Not that I support it one bit - but we as a society are not attacking the problems at the roots.

Banning this game will not do anything but take away more freedoms.

We could have the game so people who wish to play it for leisure could, while also not getting any motivation of rape. How? Parenting!

I am just asking for to much...Hollywood and MSM runs what we deem good or bad, and if we do not like something nowadays, we just want it to go poof.