Please help me to understand my bitterness towards Judaism.

Again this comes from a misunderstanding of what the Torah is and how the religion has evolved over time.

The Torah in its current written form is only about 10% of the knowledge that the religion has. It is the fundamentals if you like, and it was not existent in written form at ALL until AFTER the time of christ.

Though certain sections may have been prepared for study it did not exist in the document you know today.

For the time before that it was taught orally in its entirety. The portion of the book that is now considered the Torah is the portion that a Rabbi had to learn by heart word for word in order to be considered a Rabbi at that time.

Also Id like to think its clear from what Ive said that I think its entirely possible that the Jews were meant to Crusify Jesus, and that Jesus may return and be the Messiah, however as the messianic prophecy is not fulfilled at this time saying he is the Messiah and using him as a stepping stone to god almost does more harm than good.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by gYvMessanger]

Originally posted by gYvMessanger
Again this comes from a misunderstanding of what the Torah is and how the religion has evolved over time.

The Torah in its current written form is only about 10% of the knowledge that the religion has. It is the fundamentals if you like, and it was not existent in written form at ALL until AFTER the time of christ.

Though certain sections may have been prepared for study it did not exist in the document you know today.

For the time before that it was taught orally in its entirety. The portion of the book that is now considered the Torah is the portion that a Rabbi had to learn by heart word for word in order to be considered a Rabbi at that time.

Also Id like to think its clear from what Ive said that I think its entirely possible that the Jews were meant to Crusify Jesus, and that Jesus may return and be the Messiah, however as the messianic prophecy is not fulfilled at this time saying he is the Messiah and using him as a stepping stone to god almost does more harm than good.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by gYvMessanger]

Sorry to sound mean again, but this is typical cultic rhetoric -- that the scriptures are not "complete" and we need to add more lost and special writings to them. Jesus condemned those writings, said they were "traditions of men" and not the inspired writings that "holy men of god wrote as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

As I said before, the Jews do not believe their own scriptures and prefer the Talmud and Cabala to them. Which is why they are not real Jews, just like the Bible says. Real Jews love Jesus. The Synagogue of Satan hates Jesus, as the Bible says, and will haul the Christians into court, into prison, and kill us.

That's why Brother Nathanael calls his site RealJewNews. Because he is a real Jew, as the Bible says, one in the heart, not one outwardly.

And it is not that Jesus is going to return as the Messiah, as though he wasn't the Messiah the first time he came. The Bible never said the Messiah would only come once, one time to rule and reign and judge. Not at all. The Messiah is described both ways, which means of course the Messiah must come twice.

And he will be as much the Messiah the second time he comes as he was the first time. What Jesus did is to his glory, not his shame, and people with a pure heart who understand what things are important and valuable and which are not understand this.

The Jews are too proud, too materialistic, and can't understand how God could humble himself as a man to die for mankind, to become the very Lamb of God that God had led the Jews by the hand to understand that atonement for sin was necessary to satisfy God's justice. When Jesus died on the cross, the veil in the temple was torn in two, signalling that no longer does anybody have to go through a priest or a sacrificed animal to come to God, that Jesus had given himself, laid his life down for us, that we can come to God through Him. The Jews should be able to understand what Jesus did better than anybody, after all the tutoring and leading by the hand from God.

But no. Just keep on thinking you are the "seed that's going to bless the nations," not Jesus, keep on thinking that you Jews collectively are the One, keep on with your god complex, and keep on plotting to kill everybody else, keep on starting wars and hating everybody but yourselves.

Originally posted by Salt of the Earth
As I said before, the Jews do not believe their own scriptures and prefer the Talmud and Cabala to them. Which is why they are not real Jews, just like the Bible says. Real Jews love Jesus. The Synagogue of Satan hates Jesus, as the Bible says, and will haul the Christians into court, into prison, and kill us.

.....

The Jews are too proud, too materialistic, and can't understand how God could humble himself as a man to die for mankind, to become the very Lamb of God that God had led the Jews by the hand to understand that atonement for sin was necessary to satisfy God's justice. When Jesus died on the cross, the veil in the temple was torn in two, signalling that no longer does anybody have to go through a priest or a sacrificed animal to come to God, that Jesus had given himself, laid his life down for us, that we can come to God through Him. The Jews should be able to understand what Jesus did better than anybody, after all the tutoring and leading by the hand from God.

But no. Just keep on thinking you are the "seed that's going to bless the nations," not Jesus, keep on thinking that you Jews collectively are the One, keep on with your god complex, and keep on plotting to kill everybody else, keep on starting wars and hating everybody but yourselves.

That's not, you know, hypocritical or anything.

A lot of people, apparently including yourself, dislike Jews more than they dislike atheists. This is religion. It's not set in stone. No one is 100% right and if you think you are, then I would pay a lot to witness what goes on inside your soul upon death. If you think about what the Torah was founded on, which most Jews BELIEVE and KNOW the same exact way you know your Bible, you would understand the Jesus conundrum. The Old Testament really said nothing about Jesus and provided no DIRECT evidence that he would be the messiah. So to them, believing in Jesus as the son of God is pretty much idol worship.

Where the materialistic and proud part comes in is basically prejudice. Unless the Bible says that Jews are materialistic. Which would be funny, but it's just not there. Like, books about atheism don't say "Christians are closed minded and stupid." Christianity is founded on basic Judaic beliefs. And, omgosh, if you did your religion studies you would know that originally all Judeo-Christian beliefs stemmed from.... polytheism.

Clearly the entire history of humankind is going to hell. And their ancestors! Omgosh, we're all going to hell!

The synagogue of Satan says that the Jews are going to kill Christians, and real Jews love Jesus? I would read the Bible again... without a prejudice or bias...

[edit on 2/19/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Originally posted by gYvMessanger
Dont equate what you consider belief to be what I consider belief.

You believe you need another person to act as the bridge between you and god.

I do not.

Jews believe they need animal sacrifice to act as a bridge between them and God. Some rabbis kill chickens. Many Jews want Solomons Temple rebuilt so they can begin animal sacrifice again, so they will not be cut off from God. Their Messiah (Jesus) already took care of all that, but they are too proud to come to Jesus. They hate Jesus. Their religion is built around hating Jesus and all nonJews and of glorifying themselves.

Originally posted by gYvMessanger
I also do not demand that the world comes to see my point of view, rather my desire is that the race comes to an understanding of the divine, not through slavish following of a religious doctrine, but through a real evolution in consciousness, not some airy fairy wishful dreamstate, but a real change in the way that human perception works.

Evolution of consciousness, the New Age Great Leap, that requires the slow people on the low vibration to die?

Originally posted by gYvMessanger
Your not wrong though, If people need to die for that to happen, and on mass, I could accept that point of view, I would prefer a more peaceful resolution however. The thing is if a real change in attitude and perception does not come about, a lot of people are going to die, on mass anyway and nothing but more corruption and pain will come of it.

I figured so.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
If you think about what the Torah was founded on, which most Jews BELIEVE and KNOW the same exact way you know your Bible, you would understand the Jesus conundrum. The Old Testament really said nothing about Jesus and provided no DIRECT evidence that he would be the messiah. So to them, believing in Jesus as the son of God is pretty much idol worship.
[edit on 2/19/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Actually the Torah has a ton of stuff to say about Jesus -- that he would be born in Bethlehem of a virgin, that he would be crucified, that they would cast lots for his clothes, that he would be buried in a rich man's tomb, that he would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver, that his beard would be pulled out and he would be struck with rods, that he would ride triumphantly into Jerusalem on a donkey as Messiah, and on and on. Many prophecies, all fulfilled. There are other prophecies of when he comes in Judgment, to judge the earth and reign. The Jews like these verses and ignore the other ones, and spurned Jesus as their Messiah, said "We have no king but Caesar," and "Crucify him, Crucify him," and "His blood be on us and on our children forever."

They loved him when he was raising the dead and feeding the multitudes, healing the sick. But when the Jewish rabbis, who were jealous of him, decided to try him and presented him to the people all bloodied and beaten they turned against him in shame and revulsion and called for his death.

The rabbis knew who they had killed and conspired with the Romans to lie about his resurrection, agreed to say his disciples had stolen his body from the tomb. They deliberately fostered a lie because they had already chosen allegiance with Satan. They were in wilful defiance of God, without excuse.

What can I say you just dont want to listen, Im attempting to tell you history, I am not brainwashed by some cult, though I have indeed studied the jewdiac cult if you will, how do you think religions start.

The good book as you know it was created for the purpose of controlling your life, it was done so originally in good faith, you would understand why this was necessary if you could just open your eyes.

You say oh your evil you want to take over the world and control everyone, which I dont, whilst at the same time happily allowing yourself to be manipulated by the christian church, not the teachings of jesus mind, but the teachings of the church.

Of course there are evil jews running the world, but there are also evil muslims, evil christians and evil athiests involved in it. To believe the jews on mass are in on some kind of satanic concept to destroy the world when most of them dont even read the two books you refer to, one of which Ive tried to explain to you several times doesn't even exist.

Jews believe they need animal sacrifice to act as a bridge between them and God. Some rabbis kill chickens. Many Jews want Solomons Temple rebuilt so they can begin animal sacrifice again, so they will not be cut off from God. Their Messiah (Jesus) already took care of all that, but they are too proud to come to Jesus. They hate Jesus. Their religion is built around hating Jesus and all nonJews and of glorifying themselves.

I'd be very surprised if you where able to find even 1000 jews who hate Jesus, to say the religion is based around hating him is just a total lie, the same goes for being taught to hate non jews and ive tried to explain multiple times what you see as glory the jews see in a totally different way.

And by the way this whole Jesus thing does make me laugh, you even know the truth about the Jews attempting to erase his name from history, you know they attempted to use the mystic tradition to do it, so do you reaffirm the name of Yeshua of Nazareth, do you spread the teachings of Joshua of Nazareth as he would actually be called in english.

No you spread the propaganda of the image of Jesus, the man who never was. You don't care about the truth, you just want the lie that is most comfortable for you.

Christ is a title for the King Messiah, the last Messiah, which maybe Yeshua will turn out to be, I wonder whether he would be proud of the subterfuge his followers have instigated in his not even real name.

To me it sounds like you are incredibly jealous of something that doesn't even exist.

Evolution of consciousness, the New Age Great Leap, that requires the slow people on the low vibration to die?

I figured so.

If you actually read what I said rather than just seeing what you want I said I would prefer it if people came to the realization themselves. I am not suggesting I will pull a nuclear winter on the world, but I am suggesting and you should be able to see that if the world stays in its present course it will destroy itself to no avail, and if I was offered a choice I would remove the few to save the many, or even remove the many to save the few who would have been lost along with the many had I not.

If you think it is alright for the ignorant to destroy the world and for everyone else to stand by and let them because imposing rules is contrary to their free will then I'm afraid you are the misguided one.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by gYvMessanger]

Originally posted by gYvMessanger

I'd be very surprised if you where able to find even 1000 jews who hate Jesus, to say the religion is based around hating him is just a total lie, the same goes for being taught to hate non jews and ive tried to explain multiple times what you see as glory the jews see in a totally different way.

According to the Talmud, goyim are like cattle, that it's okay to lie to us, steal from us, pull the ladder away if we fall into a crevice, or let us drown if you see us crying for help. This sounds like hate to me, and this is your official "holy book." All of you think you are way far above all the rest of us "goyim," (ie cattle); that you Jews are indeed special, super-humans, a collective "God on earth;" that you are walking blessing and cursing factories, (Bless me, I'm Jewish); that if people don't bless you they will be cursed. That sounds like hatred and contempt to me. You are racist bigoted people with delusions of grandeur who think you are better than everybody else.

Originally posted by gYvMessanger

And by the way this whole Jesus thing does make me laugh, you even know the truth about the Jews attempting to erase his name from history, you know they attempted to use the mystic tradition to do it, so do you reaffirm the name of Yeshua of Nazareth, do you spread the teachings of Joshua of Nazareth as he would actually be called in english.

No you spread the propaganda of the image of Jesus, the man who never was. You don't care about the truth, you just want the lie that is most comfortable for you.

Excuse me, but his name is Jesus in English. The Scriptures were written in Greek, not Hebrew -- "Iusus" or something like that. It translates in English to Jesus. That's what my Bible says, and I love my Bible and believe it, every word. I don't listen to Jews who don't believe in Jesus trying to tell me how to pronounce or spell the name of my God as though the NT were written in Hebrew, which it was not. Also, the name you tell me I should call Jesus is very close to the same name, Yesueh, that is used in derision in the Talmud to indicate "may his name be forever driven from memory." I'm not a Judaizer, not interested in making an idol out of the Hebrew language or whatever. I'm a Christian.

Originally posted by gYvMessanger

Christ is a title for the King Messiah, the last Messiah, which maybe Yeshua will turn out to be, I wonder whether he would be proud of the subterfuge his followers have instigated in his not even real name.

To me it sounds like you are incredibly jealous of something that doesn't even exist.

I think you are the one who is jealous, same with the rest of the Jews who can't stand to see people celebrate Christmas or Easter. Stop slamming my Bible, that it doesn't know how to spell the name of the Messiah. As I said, the New Testament Scriptures were written in Greek (or Aramaic), not Hebrew, written by Jesus' own disciples, by James his brother, and by St. Paul. If "Jesus" was good enough for them, it's good enough for me. The Old Testament calls him "Emanuel, Counsellor, Mighty God." Maybe that's part of God's plan for the New Covenant, that it be written in a new language for a new group of people who love God and worship God, rather than worshipping themselves as being collectively God on earth.

Salt of the Earth said:

"Evolution of consciousness, the New Age Great Leap, that requires the slow people on the low vibration to die?

I figured so.

Originally posted by gYvMessanger

If you actually read what I said rather than just seeing what you want I said I would prefer it if people came to the realization themselves. I am not suggesting I will pull a nuclear winter on the world, but I am suggesting and you should be able to see that if the world stays in its present course it will destroy itself to no avail, and if I was offered a choice I would remove the few to save the many, or even remove the many to save the few who would have been lost along with the many had I not.

If you think it is alright for the ignorant to destroy the world and for everyone else to stand by and let them because imposing rules is contrary to their free will then I'm afraid you are the misguided one.

I am not interested in killing "ignorant" people. I do want to stop the Satanists and Zionists by exposing them for what they are, perhaps putting them on trial for their war crimes and false flags and all the rest. That is the way to do it, telling the truth, exposing the Satanists and Zionists, rather than telling fairy tales about some giant leap of evolution per the X Men or some Darwinian "punctuated equilibrium" nonsense, flattering people into wanting to kill people not sharing their same demented delusions of grandeur and magical thinking so they can presumably leap into becoming some Xmen.

The Bible calls these "filthy dreamers" -- people who loved the darkness more than the light because their deeds were evil, people who love death because they hate God. According to my Bible, the Satanists and Zionists are going to lose, and lose very horribly. The Muslims and Christians both are waiting for Jesus to come back and defeat the antichrist and the enemies of God. You need to reject the dark side, come over to God's side with God's people. Become a real Jew, loving God, not hating God, rejecting the Messiah he promised you -- being so full of pride that you and the rest of the people you think have some vague specialness of Jewishness are God personified on earth.

As the Bible teaches: "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul?"

Originally posted by dashen
I'm soooo tired of this crap. The Masons control the world, under the auspices of the Bilderberg Group based out of Geneva. JEWS are not allowed to be 33rd Degree Masons, as you must accept jesus as your savior to be inducted. Jews are the go-to guys when you want to blame someone for monetary scammery. I will crush you all with my wallet.

Check out this link and download the video Masonic Lodge Over Jerusalem: thepiratebay.org...

"On May 3, 1996 in Israel, Tel Aviv police raided an apartment, joined by reporters from a TV news program and the daily newspaper Davar Rishon. They found a bizarre scene. The walls were covered in Latin script, skulls and bones graced the shelves, swords were crossed and mounted behind an altar. Five doors led to secret passageways with red blinking intruder warning lights."

"The news reports the next day announced, 'The apartments were used for ceremonies by the Freemasons, an organization whose membership boasts cabinet ministers and high ranking army officers.'" (Inside Israel, August 1996 edition, pages 4-6)

Now, finally, the lid is blown off the forbidden secret powder keg of the Masons of Israel! In this exclusive video report, Texe Marrs presents shocking evidence never before revealed.

Most astonishing is the mind-boggling conclusion that to expose the dark inner sanctum of the Masonic Lodge over Jerusalem is literally to bring to light the seamy underbelly of the plan of the beast of prophecy. Here is Mystery Babylon is all its decadent vainglory!

The elite masters of the Masonic Order now control the White House and the leadership councils of the European Community. Their goal is to establish dictatorial Illuministic Communism and to enslave all of mankind under the thumb of a Jewish master race led by a world messiah who is to rule from Jerusalem.

Their methods are Jewish witchcraft and illuministic cabalism, brought to the peak of demonic perfection via the art of Masonic magic and ritual. As one of their own insiders, Rabbi Stephen Wise, has stated: "Masonry is a Jewish institution whose history, degrees, charges, passwords, and explanations are Jewish from beginning to end."

In this video, you'll see pictured the ad run by the Grand Lodge of Israel in The Jerusalem Post newspaper congratulating President Bill Clinton and a prominent world Moslem leader as brother "Masons of Peace." You'll see documentation that Soviet monsters Lenin and Trotsky were Jewish Masons and were led by Zionist overlords.

You'll also see photos and film of high-level Israeli and American politicians and corporate chiefs exchanging cryptic Masonic handshakes and signs. You'll discover how the leaders of the Masonic Lodges in Israel privately control U.S. politics and the global economy through puppet organizations such as the Bilderbergers, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the Trilateral Commission. You will marvel at the Masonic ceremony extravaganza planned by a Jewish Mason that occurred at the Great Pyramid in Egypt, and you'll see exposure of the dangerous ADL as a Masonic front group. And there's much, much more...

—The hidden rulers of Israel...Every Prime Minister of the state of Israel since that nation's founding in 1948 has been a high-level Freemason.

—The mysterious location deep inside a cave underground in Jerusalem where members of the Grand Lodge of Israel secretly meet.

—The incredible Masonic plot to blow up and destroy Islam's golden-domed mosque now sitting on the Temple Mount

—The sinister scheme to build a Jewish Masonic temple in Jerusalem to honor a false Messiah sacred to the double-headed Egyptian deity, Mammon-Ra.

—A bloody, cataclysmic World War III will soon explode in the Middle East, exactly as planned by the Sovereign Pontiffs of International Freemasonry since 1871.

What can I say i tell you the truth but you would rather believe the lies that have been fed you, there is no discussion to be had here, I hope for your own sake that one day you wake up, your hatred and fear dont even to allow you to read what Ive actually written, I wrote the word Joshua and you translate that too Iusus I mean seriously you have a problem, You use the word that Yeshua was transmutated into, you know they did it, you even posted what they did to his name, they turned it into the jewish word for nothing, but rather than use his real name you use a fake thats what the evil satanic jews wanted you moron.

Where have I said I hate christmas or easter, this is crap your just making up. A level of vile nasty crap that Jesus would not have associated with his own teachings, but dont worry your get your reward when the time is right.

[edit on 20-2-2009 by gYvMessanger]

Your only reason for wanting to destroy people "to save the world" is that they are ignorant, not having that trickle of Jewish blood or the transforming power of believing the Jewish Talmud, which you say fills in for the Torah that is lacking.

You keep contradicting yourself, don't want to face the racist, bigoted views you hold toward people who don't have the "markers" or the Talmudic/Cabalic religious beliefs you do and these people you think need to die so the world can be a better place.

That's what you said, if not in those exact words.

And your calling me "moron" just proves your bigoted, hateful attitude toward the "goy." You don't even try to hide it.

Originally posted by NightSkyeB4Dawn
reply to post by Ichabod

 

...
I don't believe in religion period. I can accept rules of behavior and guides for social harmony but I do not believe that anyone has the right or the ability to describe God to another.

Religion wants to paint God into a tiny box that can be used at will. A box that can be used to bang someone over the head with if they do not conform. A box to explain away a pain, a sorrow, an event or to use as a weapon to justify hatred and wars.

Why are you so upset that I do not believe the religious dogma that you have chosen to believe and accept?

Ah, now doctrine is a 'tiny' box that can be used for bad things and those are the only things you list. Religious doctrine can be used for good things too and we're encouraged over and over again in our doctrine to do that, e.g. taking care of orphans and widows, taking in the alien among us, etc., etc.

Welcome to Strawmanville - how could God possibly be described in a box which you describe as 'tiny'. haha

I see also that you can agree to some nice sounding things, like 'social harmony' but you can't agree to other things, e.g. the concept of a chosen elect. So, I see the evidence of your own doctrine now, the rules your religion is going to play by. Since you're off on your own religion and others might consider joining, can you define 'social harmony' for us? How about a list of sinful behaviors?

reply to post by Ichabod

Why are you so upset that I do not believe the religious dogma that you have chosen to believe and accept?

Your turn.




[edit on 20-2-2009 by NightSkyeB4Dawn]

The Jews and Calvinists are both bigoted -- both think they are chosen.

The Jews think they were Chosen because of who their parents were.

The Calvinists think the same.

Hard-hearted people. Proud. And no reasoning with either of them.