Please help me to understand my bitterness towards Judaism.

I found out quite spontaneously that I am all too willing to feel bitterness towards Jewish people, and I don't know why really.

I've been thinking... does the media portray Jewish Americans in a bad light? Why does the media always choose to portray Jews as boisterous and in your face about their Judaism? Take for example Jason Alexander... I find it very annoying that he pretends to know personally anything about suffering just because his ancestors suffered. I find that very irritating, and I also find it kind of scummy for him to be taking advantage of really bad situations as an attention getter. That's just the trend I've been exposed to, and I never thought it really affected my opinion until now.

Has that been what has caused my sudden animosity towards it, a subconscious animosity fueled by media repetition of a certain stereotype? I don't know, and it makes me uncomfortable because I really didn't know I felt that way until this whole Israeli-Palestine deal heated up recently... and I guess it just made me wonder why a group would DO that when they went through something similar less than a century ago... It just really angered me, and something about it has brought forth even more resentment that I didn't even know I had.

Is most of Judaism supporting of the policies and actions of Israel?

I realized that I don't know a lot about Judaism and my anger towards it has really surprised me. I know for certain that I don't support Israeli government actions at all. That comes down to simply that they don't behave like they have any sort of faith at all in anything good or "holy".

I couldn't understand why it would be if most people of Jewish faith supported this.

I know that there are groups of Jewish Rabbis that are against Zionism, but is this the minority of the religion?

If it is... I don't know if I could respect that.

For some reason, I don't meet Jewish people very often, or if I do I don't know it. So I don't get a chance to ask....

What are Jewish people's opinion on Israel and that whole deal? Do Jewish people really believe that they are "God's Chosen People"?

I have this picture in my head of a very big headed (metaphorically) and secretive exclusive culture... but what is it REALLY like?

Help me understand... because even reading conspiracy theories, I always got uncomfortable towards any theories alledging any sort of Jewish conspiracies.... yet now here's me and I'm trying to justify a reason for this animosity that has sprung forth out of nowhere...

This is not a hate speech thread. I'm sorry if I have ever come off that way... but I'd like to understand the connections more.

I'm being honest. If mods find this to be hate speech, then they've denied me a chance to understand my thoughts and emotions better.

Thanks, and please I really do not mean to offend this time.




[edit on 10-2-2009 by dunwichwitch]

there are no definite answers... everything is fluid & changing...

consider the large, 1/2 acre public swimming pool
(i recall Hershey Park, PA as my example)...

there are all sorts of people in & out of the pool,
there are also beachballs, towels, even plastic bottles
carelessly left in the pool itself...
if one of these items gets in your way, you toss it aside or avoid it

but the other unsaid secret known to us all..
is that somebody is always peeing in the pool...

so it is with the compound elements of your story.

reply to post by St Udio


So are you saying that certain controlling factors who parade as "Jewish" in principle are actually just using the veil of Judaism to pee in the pool and ruin it for everyone?

Short answer: its illogical. It cannot be understood. Such is the nature of prejudice.

I think we are all prejudiced in one way or another. The only possible antidote is to meet the people who you are prejudiced against, talk to them, see what they are really like. Sometimes you will find that your prejudices are unwarranted, and other times you will find that they are spot on.

I have a few Jewish friends, which undoubtedly aids my capability to understand their mentality; which is why I do like Jews as a group.

You may not find the same thing... that's ok, that's life- we draw our own conclusions and then try and justify them.

If you are really bothered by your own innate anti-semitism then travel to Israel and make your own mind up firmly one way or another.

edit:spelling

[edit on 10-2-2009 by 44soulslayer]

reply to post by 44soulslayer


I wish I could travel out of the country... or afford to, anyway. I was thinking about going to a cynagogue or something. I feel guilty about feeling the way I feel.

The reality my friend is that we are all the same. ALL of the worlds religions are just man made. We are all just human. We all have flaws. We are a product of our environment and genetics. YOU can take control of only one thing in your life and that is YOU.

Do not worry about what others are doing around you unless it is harming you personally in some way, and I do not mean your emotions. I mean harming your pursuit of happiness in you short life. The choices you control are your own. You are where you are because you choose to be there and YOU can choose to leave.

We are all just bags of blood and bone. If there is a creator out there, there is no book or human made speech anywhere at anytime been made to justify the following of one religion over another. GOD has not communicated his existence not even once. Man has but not GOD not ever.

You have a short life ahead of you, find yourself, find your happy place and go live near it. Try and make each day as happy for yourself and others around you as you can. Visit that happy plave every weekend! (Mine is surf fishing on the beach). Talk to go there if you like because that is the most likely place if ever you will hear him respond to you.

Do not worry about the others around you. Find out who you are before giving one moments though of judging another and then still don't.

Xeven

reply to post by dunwichwitch


That's a great thing to do. Visit any synagogue, I'm sure they will answer any of your questions about their religion, race or even politics (though beware of making overtly anti-zionist comments such as "Free Palestine"... they understandably get visibly angry at this).

Prejudice either leaves you or is cemented when you encounter the subject of your hatred. I used to hold an illogical grudge against Arabs, until I visited the Middle East and found that they are friendly, hospitable people.

All I'm saying is make sure that your prejudice is rooted in your own firm opinion and logic system. Don't be surprised if you come out and feel even more anti-semitic... thats just your own conclusion. Its just better to make sure that its "logical" prejudice (or at least internally justifiable) rather than illogical hatred.

dont wonder why you might not like jews, wonder why they dont like you. why do they call us all gentiles, why nobody but their ethnic heritage can be anything but? why do they get their own country, stripped from those that were happy where they were. Why are jews banding to together to control the worlds finances, media, and education?

Why dont Jews like us? and why did they bring nukes to the holy land? how holy is that?

It's not that I think of "Jews" as a different people, Xeven. It's the outcome of 3000 or so years of this ideology upon humanity. A Jewish person is a peerson... that's not the point. The point is the actual religion... I'm bitter towards the religion. The religion is, like it or not, represented in modern times by the State of Israel... and I just don't see many people who are being represented also by this State complaining much when it commits genocide in the name of all of Judaism. Has this or any ideal similar to it done humanity a service? Or is it just control of minds? When I see people with a certain ideology, living as if the ideology was theirs, sometimes all I see is the ideology marching around in a person suit. Sometimes, all I think about when I think of a Jewish person walking around is an Israeli in America, thinking of me as a "stupid American" that is theirs to manipulate andcontrol, just like this government is the lapdog of Israel right now....

and I know on one hand that it is not true... but why isn't there a greater dissident voice amongst the Jewish community about what Israel is doing in their names?

If there is.... this is your faith that's being trashed in the name of genocide, people of Jewish lineage.... you'd think people of that faith would be up in arms and ripping the support beams out from under Israel for pissing on the lessons of history.

reply to post by dunwichwitch



Oh my... i had exactly the same thing!

But i was approximately 12 years old and i nearly cried that i felt so dirty inside in retrospect very intelligent...

So, this i explained only so that you take the foollowing seriously:

Meditate. The reason for your prejudice is not that you have never been to Jerusalem, nor that you have not enough jewish friends. Imho. This can give you a way out but it's not sure.

Prejudice, is a state of mind. It's not something singular. Not like a picture, it's the canvas Some people think always in prejudices.

You must alter the canvas and you can do it only in the meditative state. Show yourself the many different life forms, SEE inside the humans and project love to everyone. This is easy. The hard thing is to except the reality, which is: judgement is not easy, every person is a singular, powerful entity. Above all, every mistake (like Gaza) has its root in something negative, the person once had to go through. Face Zipi Livni in your meditation and SEE and feel her mistakes. It's not the fault of the jews!

If you don't achieve to alter you mode of thinking, this small problem will grow like cancer, altering your mind... That is not doomsaying, it's one of many dangers.

Best regards

reply to post by 44soulslayer


44soulslayer, I understand and agree with most of your post... but if Jewish people get visibly angry when you question support for Israel, don't you think that defeats the purpose of trying to get questions answered? Don't you think that is a little pompous to think that a certain group of people has more of a right to a piece of land than another people? Islam, Christianity, and Judaism all come from the SAME REGION!
It's ludicrous to let a certain ideology control the rights to land or to think that the people of that ideology are OWED certain lands because it was a God Given right.... and it is wrong not to be able to question that because it is taboo. I do not really see eye to eye with anyone who is closed minded on that subject.

Maybe you are secretly Jewish. Perhaps you've been a self-hating Jew all along. But seriously, if you were to come-by my neck of the woods, your opinions of Jews might just change. I'm Jewish, and I've had friends who were skinheads. When they found out I was Jewish, they didn''t remember why they hated Jews anymore,(probably because I'm broke, and don't control the media).

reply to post by Wachstum


Once again.... I see all people as people, everyone of all colors and faiths are Human first and foremost, and should be respected as such....

Therefore, no one "group" should be able to claim to be "chosen" or to be "owed" anything other than the same thing everyone else is owed... and that's my problem with Judaism... not that I have a problem with the person inside, but the ideology by which blinds that person from seeing certain things.

I'm just wondering.... what it is that I am missing? Why does Judaism feel the right to the land known as Israel.... so much so that the Sate which represents Judaism in that land would commit genocide on innocent people who just happen to be living there and are no of the same creed?

reply to post by dashen


Well what is your opinion on the State of Israel?

Surely you don't agree with their show of force, do you?

And surely you don't think I believe that you personally control the media, do you?

Originally posted by dashen
Maybe you are secretly Jewish. Perhaps you've been a self-hating Jew all along. But seriously, if you were to come-by my neck of the woods, your opinions of Jews might just change. I'm Jewish, and I've had friends who were skinheads. When they found out I was Jewish, they didn''t remember why they hated Jews anymore,(probably because I'm broke, and don't control the media).

It's possible that some of my distant relatives are Jewish... no doubt.

I probably have muslim relatives.... possibly even some relatives who were Nazis....

I'm not disagreeing with the fact that you are a person who deserves respect. I just question everything.... and the very fact that it is very hard to question Judaism without being completely villified I guess makes me want to question it.

reply to post by dunwichwitch


You are arguing. Inside yourself you know, that this can never do things better.

You are stuck in your arguing. Try the other way round: Israel is a rich state in the middle of poverty. They see Kassams hit them and the news people speak all day of terrorism. Netanjahu goes for them with all sort of propaganda.

There is not an overall logic in it. People are deceivable, they are weak, they believe what they want... dont blame the gun, blame the... Yes, what?? I don't know, deception and poverty exist. It's like the cat that kills the rat...

You guys just have to expand your ideas of what the word "chosen" means. ""Chosen"" for what exactly? For what purpose? So far we've been chosen for bullying and hatred. Also, for many jobs in Hollywood and the Banking Industry. BUT, seriously, really seriously, what it means when Jews say they are the "CHOSEN" race is a secret. Hahaha. Mail me a snifter of whiskey and maybe I'll tell.

reply to post by dashen


Come on. Give us a hint, will you?

It's actually a riddle i really want to solve

reply to post by dashen





[edit on 10-2-2009 by Wachstum]

reply to post by dashen



See no now seriously dashen, I don't know what "chosen" means.

I really WOULD like to know. Is it really a secret, or are you just being very sarcastic? I'm guessing the latter... but now seriously, why wouldn't...say.... a buddhist be as chosen as a jew? If, by chosen, Jewish ideology means that God favors Jewish endeavors more than other people's endeavors... then I think that would be a preposterous thing to believe. If they were "chosen" to suffer in order to rise above and save humanity.... oky I can see that... but then what about any person who must overcome great challenges in order to transcend certain states?