ATS a "crackpot American website"

Thanks to everyone contributing their thoughts and to those who replied directly.

I am fairly new to ATS and overall have a positive view and am fully in support I think I represent a lot of people in that though they are interested, the realities of their available time pervades.

There are threads on subjects that interest me, but it can take like half an hour to wade through them. Particularly off-putting when there's too much sidetracking and some backbiting going on.

I just spoke to my friend who pointed me to here and will summarize his observations.

Some really cool stuff and so much you never knew about it. But unless you know how to read the signs for what is going to be thoughtful and what isn't, a lot of time can be wasted on a discussion that degresses to nattering over trivial aspects or egos.

His evaluation is that ATS, despite some exceptional and knowlegeable people onboard, is geared more a first year college student world purview.

The less experienced but well read who with a little knowledge in some area think they know everything. The demographic is the somewhat angry, reflexively rebellious, seeking simple explanations. That the big corporate world, the evil empire governments, the secret society, is behind anything and everything.

I see his point. When I try to fathom the financial meltdown, I expect something more sophisticated than that it's all part of the master plan of the New World Order.

Someone posting probably has a more fully thought out explanation and evidence, - but I can't spare the time it will take to find the thread and that message.

Jumping into a daily new pile of ATS threads reminds me why I used to buy and read more newspapers and magazines.

Factoring in their biases and spin, at least the news was preselected and concise enough to give you the impression you were being made aware of the more significant highlights of what was going on around the world.

ATS in not a newspaper. More like an anti-newspaper. What they leave out and don't want you to know.

Still, I wish there was some kind of daily digest so I'd know where to start or pointers to things of exceptional interest. The front page tries to do that, but then I often find myself falling down a rabbit hole of 15 page threads looking for that elusive kernel of new information.


Mike F

reply to post by IsaacKoi

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
Can someone post links to the threads discussed in the extract above so that we can see how members of ATS reacted to the theories advanced?

>>snip

As they say...

Any publicity is good publicity...

AT LEAST ATS was mentioned in a newspaper... draw more people in...

HEHEHE

Gullible... that newspaper couldn't be any more hypocritical... they post MORE FAR OUT stuff then ATS can post... they also have to remember, ANYONE can post on ATS, not just PAID journalists like the DM has... and paid off to post that rubbish.

For the posts mentioned? i mean, COME ON! out of ALL THE DECENT THREADS ON HERE, they chose the wackiest ones.

From a journalist standpoint... i think they should investigate before taking the daily mails points to heart... its their duty, and a journalistic sin if they don't.

reply to post by ugie1028


If only they had cited one of the Breaking News posts that use them as a source.

And then the crowd of ATS'ers responding "Come on now, you can't believe it just because it was in the Daily Mail! That's not a reputable source!"

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

2) Topical Agnosticism: We must be ready to embrace and examine all ideas related to conspiracies and cover-ups... even so far as to accept the notion that our theories may be wrong, or in need of significant adjustment. We can't have an agnostic mindset and at the same time, be invested in one particular theory over another. We must be able to examine all ideas presented, no matter how outlandish or mundane, so that we remain open to truths in all forms.
(This is one point I feel so strongly about, conspiracy theorists must be total agnostic with respect to our theories.)

Great post SO. And I dont throw flattery around frivolously.

I could not agree more. In order to deny ignorance, one has to be willing to look at ALL evidence. Including that that contradicts our own pet theories.

If members could applaud staff, this post would get applause from me. Since we cant,

Originally posted by americandingbat
reply to post by ugie1028

 

If only they had cited one of the Breaking News posts that use them as a source.

And then the crowd of ATS'ers responding "Come on now, you can't believe it just because it was in the Daily Mail! That's not a reputable source!"

its amazing sometimes... how narrow minded people can be. but, not everyone knows the truths we do.

Pft... DM, they made me wanna burn newspapers...

Reading with great interest what people have to say about ATS and how it can be improved.

I agree that keeping an almost completely open forum is best in principle. But one also has to factor in the reality of unmanageable volume and overload.

We've learned to protect our email from being drowned in spam, and sadly something like that will need to be implemented here.

If you know your way around ATS finding threads of interest with some coherence is something you've learned. I've been around the site approaching two months and am just figuring it out.

Owners, staff and regulars often miss something of great importance that I've seen in work I've done in publishing. It's distressingly easy to confuse and even piss off a first time user and in the process lose a valuable customer.

No one will be able to track it, but I think this happens on ATS

A potentially new candidate will go to the home page, see a large number of high weirdness topics highlighted, and just say "forget it" My girlfriend did that last week despite my supplying a preparatory speech..

The mainstream may suck at what they do, but at least cosmetically provided a face of legitimacy and impartiality. They say “We provide the news arranged so you can digest it in one meal”

At’s opening message is “We are a self serve buffet 5 miles from beginning to end”

The ATS experience can be overwhelming in it's massiveness. For someone entering and isolating something of value or interest to them, the task is daunting.

If I were to throw you a 20 volume encyclopedia and say "Ya gotta read this. Some great passages but ignore the loonier entries" it would be a similar experience.

One has to keep in mind that first impressions are not just the most important, they’re often the only one you get to make.


Am I saying try to be more like the MSM - no. But take a cue from them - look like you're sorting through what’s out there and pointing to what’s of greatest interest or relevance. This is what people want most.


Mike F

The Daily Mail is not one of the more serious, respected media outlets in the United Kingdom, so those worried by what is printed by those clowns, take a sigh of relief because most people do not take The Daily Mail seriously.

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
(2) If not, can ATS improve how it is perceived by main stream reporters?

I think that's the real key question which needs to be addressed.

As it was linked to earlier, the "I-fooled-ya" type of posts that seem to crop up here all too often, or just the simple, "I'm sure I'm an alien -- my cat told me so" type of threads do nothing to stop the perception that ATS is filled with 'crackpots'.

I know people do question the validity of these types of posts in the respective thread, but I think more needs to be done. I think people/mods need to be a bit more vigilante in filtering out posts that are simply conjecture and very loose hypotheses.

When someone says, "I'm the next Messiah and have lived 1000 lives" -- the post be immediately tagged as suspicious -- people need to question and attempt to validate the poster and their motives. I know it can't be "proved" to be true as that's often the crux of the theory/conspiracy/hypothesis.

At least if people here are seen to be a bit more 'scientific' (I know many people are cringing at that word) in the validating/analysis approach to some of the more outlandish claims, it could help the public perception of ATS and other such alternative sites.

Just a thought.



[edit on 12-2-2009 by noonebutme]

Strange.

I wonder if any other members will have articles written about them.

Since chrisonabike was revealed to be Robbie Williams, perhaps the nefarious msm will expose and write about other members of this site....

Where will it end?

Some of us have careers and lifestyles that would be adversely affected by such exposure.

I can only hope this doesn't become a trend; just Because chrisonabike is famous in real-life, doesn't make it is right to reveal the alternate identity he has chosen to use specifically to be anonymous in his research and discussion on ATS.

I'm retired now, but I can say for a fact that my past work and my relationships with colleagues would have been affected negatively by my presence on this site being brought to light.

Originally posted by noonebutme
As it was linked to earlier, the "I-fooled-ya" type of posts that seem to crop up here all too often, or just the simple, "I'm sure I'm an alien -- my cat told me so" type of threads do nothing to stop the perception that ATS is filled with 'crackpots'.

And there is the dilemma/problem of our own making.

We (ATS management) can't profess to embrace topical agnosticism while picking which topics we are agnostic about. The standard we've set for ourselves is designed to tolerate any and all topics, with the hope that our members will sort things out in a civilized way.

Certainly, when our members present an overwhelming about of evidence, we tag threads accordingly (such as with the "[hoax]" tag)... but only after any label has become obvious.

Hopefully, the standard we've set will inspire more and more ATS members to think similarly (I think it is), and that in turn will put more conspiracy theorists with more open minds out into the "wild." That will help broader perception.

In an earlier post couple of pages back I made a point I guess about fairness. There are crackpot threads here but again its perception. Nevertheless I still think that if we are asked to recognise a great thread with the blue star we should be able to recognise a thread with a red star. That is true peer recognition its simple the blue stars stay and reds are introduced that way each can make up their minds.

Truly I’ve trawled through threads with lots of stars to find little in the end. I don't know if this is possible. SO you are following this I know – any thoughts.

MJ2

reply to post by Crakeur


bright side
its saved you guys a couple $$$ in advertisment

I'm bad for raining on people's parades.

The Daily Mail is a reg - no denying.

Still, it resembles a newspaper and credible news source - if only in form.

ATS looks, feels, and smells like a Conspiracy site. Nothing wrong with that.

But to the uninitiated and casual seeker, it doesn't exude reliability or credibility.

Too bad, really.

More filtration needed. A lot less chaff so you can find the wheat.


Mike F

reply to post by IsaacKoi


If ATS starts giving a damn about what the mainstream thinks than the first thing to do is to ban all criticism of the main stream media as biased. ATS shouldn't even consider this move into taking the mainstream media in to consideration, it is not about how they portray the ATS members because without those ATS members ATS wouldn't be ATS. Without those consperacies ATS wouldn't be ATS. Without those wild and out of the box claims for example, "The Earth Is Flat", ATS wouldn't be ATS.

ATS is community where there is no impossibilities and that is exactly what makes ATS, ATS. If you take that away than it is just another lame Mainstream discussion board.

reply to post by Ownification


You are right, spot on, it is what makes ATS what it is good or bad crackpots or not it is the fun of it – thanks for bringing me back on track.

MJ2

Originally posted by Ownification
reply to post by IsaacKoi

 

If ATS starts giving a damn about what the mainstream thinks than the first thing to do is to ban all criticism of the main stream media as biased. ATS shouldn't even consider this move into taking the mainstream media in to consideration, it is not about how they portray the ATS members because without those ATS members ATS wouldn't be ATS. Without those consperacies ATS wouldn't be ATS. Without those wild and out of the box claims for example, "The Earth Is Flat", ATS wouldn't be ATS.

ATS is community where there is no impossibilities and that is exactly what makes ATS, ATS. If you take that away than it is just another lame Mainstream discussion board.

You should check out other Conspiracy sites and see what no attempt to filter out crap looks like.

Worrying about what the MSM thinks isn't as much an issue as worrying about what any reasonably intelligent person thinks when they come here.

There is such a thing as credibility. When the lunatic fringe, haters, delusional, dominate the system, who wants to spend time wading through to find some gems.

Image shouldn't be important - but it is.


MF

Heh Heh - well - they got their facts right on at least two threads I have participated in recently on ATS.

Of course - in both cases - my suggestion was that the OP get some professional help.

The fact is we have a brod spectrum of humanity on this site - from pot smoking day dreamers to tobacco smoking PHD's - and all and everything in between.

However - many of us here are able to retain our healthy skeptcism - while remaining open minded.

This creates an amazing atmosphere at ATS that allows for some truly revolutionary thinking and debate.

After 7+ years of participating here I continue to be challenged and enlightened by many of the subjects discussed here.

Well Done Everyone!

ATS is great and the diversity wonderful.

Still, it might attract even more thoughtful people if the farther out stuff was the exception rather than the rule.

Not being just another just another Conspiracy site, but much bigger, might be something to aim for.


MF

Crackpots? I wouldn't say that. Everyone knows crackpots don't have computers... crackpots would sell them to buy crack!

Potheads? Yes, a large majority.

Don't let that get you down though. Everyone uses pothead like its a cuss word, almost like the world liberal. Geese, what's so bad about smoking pot anyhow? Don't tell me pot ruined your life, because it didn't. The government ruined your life by making pot illegal. If pot was legal, you wouldn't have anywhere near the amount of problems you have now.

If you are wondering, I do not smoke any longer... or do drugs for that matter. However, it is entirely because of my health. I have this thing called HPPD, Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder. I basically hallucinate all day, however it is extremely mild to the point where it is not even noticeable. However, when I start smoking or dropping pills it gets very intense... and the hallucinations aren't exactly fun in the normal sense. They are more like little girls whispering in my ear telling me I'm going to die, and getting woken up by a freaky little dead boy every night who looks like he just popped out of the movie "the ring". Or having a dream that actually lasts a week in real time.