ATS a "crackpot American website"

My, my my. So now it begins...
Everyone scatter, someone here must has said something that hits too close to home.
Low and behold they are campaigning to make ATS the crackpot site.

Go ahead and defame us, say we are crackpots.
If only we could know what was said that struck a nerve.
Best cover is blown cover.
Some of us probably are crackpots.
Oh well.
Needle in a haystack.

^
DocMoreau

[edit on 16/2/2009 by DocMoreau]

Originally posted by Hellish-D
I don't think anyone is talking about censoring (although there is plenty of censorship already). There's nothing the owners can do about the BS on the site because that's what the site is about. Just don't complain when the members are called crackpots.

Lol when i saw this was the Daily Mail i no longer worried about being called a crackpot. Have you seen some of the stuff they post? Oh hey the other week i believe they were publishing stuff about UFO's including a quote by Nick Pope.

Anyway the point is that only a certain percentage here are crackpots, and by that i mean believing really far out there stuff. There is some quality on this website.

Hi Doc andMembers. There is a lot of that across the board, but if anything I think ATS would be the site to go to first see something get as the French say literally "unbolted" . Or as we fondly call it, debunked.
There are all kinds crazy mems going around, some take root, some die, some stay in limbo. If you look at ATS as a cross section of the globe, then its ideal to study as well.
I see Crackpot in the real world, some heading governments, states and municipalities. Locally, Others beheading spouses, others exorcising their kids with gasoline or boiling water and worse.
Their is mental illness afoot no doubt in here as out there, but they get walloped fairly quickly here. We can only hopefully, detect it, and take action after. Like Mufon, they don't really censor topics, unless its been id'd as a hoax already. comparatively with other sites that will protoect a crackpot theory at all costs, usually, fade away into obscurity.
Unfortunately its also the ideal type of site to data mine just like that ARS link you sent me. Yes its hoaxers, Jokesters, rogues, anarchists, and scoundrels.
Just as drama and intrigue and sides develop in a sequestered jury, the same applies to any forum, and any debate. The success will depend on getting the most people with the most experience , and education, ( I don't mean degrees necessarily) that can keep common sense available when facts are few and quick judgments have to be made. And call it or the person what they really are.

The problem is the crackpots the make a business of selling or scripting crackpot events, hoaxes, etc are better organized, have more tools to hide their Identities and with sock puppets on ip changing routers, easily can overpower commonsense people at the beginning.
The same with Gov puppets, until the thing goes their way. Especially if the site has cunived with perps, like Sony did with some blogs in Majestic , and mentioned again in Everquest.

I think fortunately , ATS are made of better stuff than a good heap of sites there. Its the only one I know put the skids on Caret and Serpo, and look, you still have believers, almost cults, out there. So let them call it as they like, its really an oasis in a desert, or shall I say Jungle. A lot has to do with, that most members here do their homework, and don't come here is just sit and take it in like someone in front of a TV, or even radio and then tow the party line.
That makes for quality feedback.
and a great crackpot site











[edit on 16-2-2009 by Sys_Config]

Crackpot......

Michelle Obama is a reptile

Mythbusters are reptiles

Some crap about hyperdimensional space aliens with type IV diabetes

Just reminding everyone why....

Originally posted by Hellish-D

Crackpot......

"Michelle Obama is a reptile ..."

[/url]


Come to think of it, no one has seen her Birth Certificate.


MF

It would be nice to have some way of ranking posts by crackpot status.

Either that or change the site name to www.NIBURU-I-BELIEVE-ARRRGGGHHHH.com

Originally posted by rizla
It would be nice to have some way of ranking posts by crackpot status.

Lol i like that idea only it would be open to abuse as people would attack the same peoples posts over and over again without viewing the content.

Crackpot American Website?

I thought the owner/founder was from England?

Sounds like someone didn't do their research.

Originally posted by mf_luder
Crackpot American Website?

I thought the owner/founder was from England?

Sounds like someone didn't do their research.

Abovetopsecret.com vs Abovetopsecret.co.uk

And 2 of the 3 guys are American.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
after some effort I've not been able to locate the explicit opinions "attributed to ATS."

Hi Bill,

The two threads referred to in the Daily Mail article are at the links below.

From the Daily Mail article
One of its major recent stories involved claims that the imminent changeover to digital TV from analogue is nothing to do with clearer television pictures, but is instead a plot by the U.S. government to 'monitor and record every household in the U.S.' by placing hidden microphones and miniature cameras inside new sets.

This "major recent" story is in the thread entitled Digital Transition, APPLE & The Covert Spying Agenda On Americans.

It hardly qualifies as a "major" story, given that it is currently dormant after a 5 page discussion with 16 flags in the “General Conspiracy Discussion” forum.

(Majestictwo kindly posted a link above to a similar thread on a digital TV conspiracy, “Digital TV Conspiracy? first post, bear with me, but that thread did not include the phrase quoted in the Daily Mail article).

As for the other post cited by the Daily Mail article:

From the Daily Mail article
Another post announces with unswerving certainty that not only can FBI spy satellites see through brick walls into homes, they can also read the minds of citizens and can scan the brains and memories of humans as if they were computers.

XL5 helpfully posted a link above to the relevant thread, started by “soygreen2k”, entitled Read here if you want the TRUTH about aliens and alien technology

The success of that thread is a bit more worrying. At least the thread is in the "Skunkworks" forum...

The relevant thread is currently 21 pages long and has been awarded 93 flags by members of ATS.

It began with a series of posts by “soygreen2k” that are, um, incredible and (importantly) was followed by a later post by “soygreen2k” that is quoted HERE. (That later post was deleted, it appears, because it was off-topic). That later post is obvious gibberish and I presume that it was intended as an indication by the author that he was not to be taken seriously.

It is noteworthy that the only other thread started by “soygreen2k” is one entitled Stanton Friedmans Beard gives a link to a photograph of Stanton Friedman and is accompanied by the following text : "Stanton friedmans beard! Stanton Friedmans beard! stanton friedmans beard! yes, its stanton friedmans beard!".

Mmm. I hope I am not alone is considering that “soygreen2k” is not being entirely serious...

By the way, the photo of Stanton Friedman at the link provided by “soygreen2k” is on a rather small and obscure personal website: www.jasonblevins.com. Rather coincidentally, that website by Jason Blevins refers to "kooky ideas" about UFOs and includes several spoofs and parodies. Jason Blevins refers to some of his written and film material as "zany", "lame comedy skits" and "surreal".

I found the link to that website interesting, in the light of the content of the posts by “soygreen2k” in the Read here if you want the TRUTH about aliens and alien technology thread.


So, where does this leave us/ATS? I'll post later with more general thoughts.

All the best,

Isaac

[edit on 17-2-2009 by IsaacKoi]

Originally posted by Hellish-D
Crackpot......

Michelle Obama is a reptile

Mythbusters are reptiles

Some crap about hyperdimensional space aliens with type IV diabetes

Just reminding everyone why....

ya and that represents the majority right..............speaking of a crackpot

those willing to be pulled back into the "sheeple belief matrix" by those that don't believe you can handle the truth or shoud learn any truth that differs from the corporate marketing propoganda parroted thru the MSM are more than happy to believe whatever they are willing to so as to continue their blissful ignrance.

Originally posted by cpdaman

ya and that represents the majority right..............speaking of a crackpot

It's enough to justify the claim.

those willing to be pulled back into the "sheeple belief matrix" by those that don't believe you can handle the truth or shoud learn any truth that differs from the corporate marketing propoganda parroted thru the MSM are more than happy to believe whatever they are willing to so as to continue their blissful ignrance.

Isaac, if you're wondering what can be done to change the perception of this website to outsiders, we can begin with teaching members proper grammar, sentence structure, punctuation and spelling.

reply to post by Hellish-D


Before several years ago, Simon Gray was the sole owner. I'd prefer to call it an international website now.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
reply to post by Hellish-D

 

Before several years ago, Simon Gray was the sole owner. I'd prefer to call it an international website now.

Hence why I was slightly bemused when I read that article (my parents buy The Daily Mail :flame, as Simon is a Brit. Therefore, to call ATS a 'crackpot Amercian website' is ridiculous and ultimately incorrect. This site was founded by a Brit, and is a member generated forum, with members from all over the world, thus, as TheBandit so sagely said, rendering it an international website.

To me, the whole article smacked of Robbie bashing, and poorly researched journalism. I don't understand either tenet or viewpoint to be honest.

To the original post - how do we make ATS more acceptable to the mainstream? I don't honestly think ATS can do that. This is a site which is open and amenable to all manner of topics. Yes, there are particularly wacky ones. Personally, as I am a fairly average human being with no particular omniscient knowledge or insight of the Universe and everything in it, I try to keep an open mind, even with the overtly suspect threads. In such a large forum, the hoaxers and (I hate this word) 'nutters' are bound to seek sanctity. Equally, this forum has some fantastic research on it, with true truth seekers who do, indeed, attempt to live by the motto of 'deny ignorance'. That is what I come here for, although I rarely post. It is unparalled on the internet, and excellent. I don't think that the mainstream media, (or indeed the mainstream masses) wish to divulge in such speculation and truth seeking. They are more than happy to live their lives in their cosy little enclaves of ignorance and media indulged ridicule. Attempting to better portray ATS would ultimately involve attempting to better portray the core subjects it cares about. Therein lies the problem, and it is one not easily fixed.

I say that ATS should just carry on with what it is doing. Free speech for all (including the wacky threads, which may or may not be so), and uncovering truths which affect us all. If such rags wish to portray this site as crackpot, then let them.

Sorry - edit for typo.

[edit on 17-2-2009 by starmist]

[edit on 17-2-2009 by starmist]

Originally posted by cpdaman

ya and that represents the majority right..............speaking of a crackpot

I'd say it was pretty representative these days. ATS has really gone down hill.

Giving a thread or poster a crackpot level measure is impractical, but there are other options available. For example, allow users to create virtual ATS groups. They would then be able to assign virtual points to a thread and to flag it other members of their virtual group.

So you could have a Nbiru group, a reptilian group, a I-love-Bush group, etc... A group could be formed automatically from a friends list for example.

Each group and group point system would only be visible to members of that group.

Not going to happen though, is it? ARRRRRRGH NIBURU IS COMING!

And another thing. The Daily Mail is not fringe or crackpot. It is very much mainstream, though its expert opinion is often full of crap.

Having read through all the post on this thread, compared to many that have posted I'm probably:

(1) more bothered about how the mainstream media perceive ATS (and ufology generally);

(2) more wary of having too inflated a view about the significance of ATS - or any other ufo/conspiracy website or forum - relative to the significance of the mainstream media. While many may dislike, or even loathe, certain newspapers (e.g. the Daily Mail, the Sun etc), those newspapers have far, far more influence in shaping views in Britain than any conspiracy discussion forum.

Perceptions matter.

The very slow pace of progress within ufology will only improve if ufology can attract more mainstream scientists and other academics.

Improve perceptions, lesson the amount of ridicule and the reluctance to be openly involved in ufological matters should be reduced.

For example, I think perceptions would improve if the lunatic fringe (if fringe is the right word given the number of lunatics in the field...) and hoaxes were seen as being tackled more forcefully within ufology itself and not mainly by individuals that are considered as being outside the ufological community.

There are quite a few steps that members of ATS (or even an individual member of ATS such as myself) could take to help improve the quality of debate on ATS, but I'm still working on some relevant ideas (development of which is fairly time consuming since I'm acting on my own in my rather limited spare time...) so I'll leave them to another thread on another day...

I think that the steps that could be taken by members are probably more important than the steps that can be taken by the management of ATS. However, there are a few possible concrete steps that could be taken by the management of ATS that arise from the Daily Mail article and this thread:

(1) Consider ways in which the flagging system can be extended or adapted so that it allows for the expression of concerns from members rather than only praise. Take a look, for example, at the second of the two threads discussed in the Daily Mail article, i.e. the thread started by “soygreen2k”, entitled Read here if you want the TRUTH about aliens and alien technology. That thread was clearly indicated by its author to be a hoax/spoof (in his later post even if this was not clear from the original posts themselves), but the thread still gathered 93 flags despite quite a few respected members of ATS expressing concerns. The members expressing concerns had no direct way to influence the number of flags, e.g. by voting to remove one flag or to award some sort of negative symbol as a sort of warning flag. Given the importance placed by ATS on feedback from its members and creation/rating of content by ATS members, this seems to be worth serious thought. Perhaps some members of ATS have seen other rating systems on other websites that could serve as a source of inspiration??


(2) Add a fairly prominent "health warning" on the Skunk Works forum, in large text (similar to the prominence of the notice regarding close staff scrutiny on the bottom of each thread on the "9/11 Conspiracies" forum, e.g. at the bottom of this thread), possibly along the lines of the following:

This forum permits the posting of the most outlandish and extreme speculative conspiracy theory ideas in a less intimidating environment than other forums on ATS, embracing Einstein's view that "Imagination is more important than knowledge"

(3) Possibly post a thread (if it doesn't exist already) indicating:
(a) the types of material that will be moved to the Skunk Works forum and
(b) informing members of ATS how they can nominate a thread for such a move (assuming that this can be done).

All the best,

Isaac

Originally posted by IsaacKoi

Having read through all the post on this thread, compared to many that have posted I'm probably:

(1) more bothered about how the mainstream media perceive ATS (and ufology generally);

(2) more wary of having too inflated a view about the significance of ATS - or any other ufo/conspiracy website or forum - relative to the significance of the mainstream media. While many may dislike, or even loathe, certain newspapers (e.g. the Daily Mail, the Sun etc), those newspapers have far, far more influence in shaping views in Britain than any conspiracy discussion forum.

Perceptions matter.

The very slow pace of progress within ufology will only improve if ufology can attract more mainstream scientists and other academics.

Improve perceptions, lesson the amount of ridicule and the reluctance to be openly involved in ufological matters should be reduced.

For example, I think perceptions would improve if the lunatic fringe (if fringe is the right word given the number of lunatics in the field...) and hoaxes were seen as being tackled more forcefully within ufology itself and not mainly by individuals that are considered as being outside the ufological community.

There are quite a few steps that members of ATS (or even an individual member of ATS such as myself) could take to help improve the quality of debate on ATS, but I'm still working on some relevant ideas (development of which is fairly time consuming since I'm acting on my own in my rather limited spare time...) so I'll leave them to another thread on another day...

I think that the steps that could be taken by members are probably more important than the steps that can be taken by the management of ATS. However, there are a few possible concrete steps that could be taken by the management of ATS that arise from the Daily Mail article and this thread:

(1) Consider ways in which the flagging system can be extended or adapted so that it allows for the expression of concerns from members rather than only praise.

Isaac

Thanks for the thoughtful posting. I agree wholeheartedly.

I appear to be a lone voice crying in the wilderness, but I strongly feel the lunatics taking over the asylum phenomenon on ATS does more harm than good overall.

It scares off new entrants and veterans. We have more of a venting outlet and entertainment forum than a place for discussion of phenomena and views.

This doesn't mean it all has to be ultra-serious. But a site where crackpots, the disturbed, and adolescents reign is not interesting or inviting.

The numbers may go up in attendance, but is the quality improving?


Mike F

Originally posted by mmiichael
The numbers may go up in attendance, but is the quality improving?

And the wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round...

ATS is not what it used to be - 2003
On ATS, Ignorance Is Winning - 2004, before he was a mod
Get rid of points system on ATS. - 2004
content going downhill??? - 2004
ATS selling out: Membership quantity over quality - 2005
"Deny Ignorance" and the ATS Conspiracy... - 2005
is ats being hached/subverted from within or ? - 2005

Some quick examples (from hundreds) of how "everyone complains about the weather, but no one ever does anything about it."


Mike...

As you can see, the phenomenon you point out has been a part of our community for years. Not to diminish from some valid concerns, but I call much of this a phenomenon for a reason... I've seen it before, I'll see it again, and I fully expect never to stop seeing it.

Forum Fatigue

For the most part, I suspect what you are (mostly) experiencing is a valid phenomenon of the digital age, "forum fatigue." While you may not be aware of such a thing, and there's precious little written about it, it does exist. I've been managing online forums and groups since it was possible to do so... beginning with BBS groups in the slow dial-up days, moving to the largest CompuServe forum in the faster dial-up days, and onward to ATS. It's real. It happens every day. It will never not happen. It's human nature.

When you (or anyone) first join a new digital community, there tends to be four phases of involvement:

1) Exuberant participation due to an overwhelming amount of content on subjects that interest you.

2) Fitting into the flow as you have a solid comfort level with the community and its members.

3) Frustration as the lack of new interesting content that led to #1 begins to be hard to find.

4) Ongoing contribution to compensate for the perceived lack of interesting content.

Think about it... you come to ATS... are excited to find all this interesting content from so many different people... spend time soaking it all in... spend more time figuring out how to fit in... start to become comfortable in providing contributions... then, as you get your fill of topics, become frustrated over repeat topics... and more frustration as new users don't exemplify your own level of advanced "ATS sophistication"... and even more frustrated as your personal investment in time is subverted by what you perceive to be poor topics... brining us solidly into the third item above. The same happens on any forum/board/community of focused topics.

About 53% of members post anything... but less than 1% of those members (0.5% of all members) ever move past #3 and make an effort with #4.


Now, to be clear, I'm not attributing all of your concerns to "forum fatigue," only that it's a common phenomenon for users of our type of venue. There's always room for improvement, and we've been proactive in figuring out what needs to happen, but we also temper that with our collective experience (more than myself) in running big online communities.


I've just retied for the evening from a nasty stint of code-wrangling related to the new media portal, and am enjoying the warm glow of some fine bourbon, and don't have the wits to rely to Isaac's posts. But I think Isaac is misunderstanding the intent of "Skunk Works"

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

ATS selling out: Membership quantity over quality - 2005

Interesting....

It looks like the author of this particular thread received several dozen stars and flags for his OP......

I wonder if that means something.