What is with all the "Christianity-Debunking" attempt threads?

Originally posted by tgidkp

if you think i am making too broad of generalizations, consider this recent thread about circumcision: why would god want man's foreskin?

What a rather rambling rant that was pretty ignorant especially from this quote as this has nothing to do with Christianity. Normally we argue about things that are actually part of the faith rather than hateful sweeping statements based on little or no evidence.

Regarding the thread itself - I think there are so many of these Christian debunking threads exactly because people assume so much about the religion, second because of it's connection with the Old Testament which is pretty much mythology and finally because Christians don't call the President and demand apologies every time someone says something against their religion.



[edit on 7-2-2009 by Mynaeris]

reply to post by tgidkp


God gave everyone free will to choose what they will and will not do.

If you choose he also gave laws for us to live by. It is also your right under God whether you believe or not too chose too live by those laws.

However to say that strict laws and forcing doctrine down your throat is a Christian thing - again I point to many atheist societies - communisim, facism etc as worse forms of exactly what your saying.

As for Christainity stopping a person from thinking, I am a qualified physicist and also a qualified accountant.

In order to understand the majesty of God I believe one must try to understand the majesty of his creation. That takes continuous learning. I also read on all other beliefs, political systems etc - I can't tell people what I believe and put it in context without knowing such things. This is also subject to continuous learning.

Of course I agree with you that there are many Christians who are liars and hypocrites, I have at times been guilty of both those offenses. We are all subject to sin hence the reason for Christ to offer us salvation.

Unfortunately I think you will have to agree that these traits are not only limited to Christians so why do we get attacked in this way then and not all members of society?

Our message says that we are full of fault and we need Christ to save us - at least as a group we recognise this.

Or do you not agree?

So again I say your issue belongs with society as a whole including many humanist societies who shove laws we do not like down our throats

reply to post by tgidkp


Yes I am a sinner. I thank YHWH that Yeshua took my sin and gives me right standing with the Father of the universe. No it not a license to sin, but freedom from sin. No, I am not going to debate you. Its clear your mind is set. Its not about rules and regulations. Its about Relationship with HIM. The Catholics, Baptists, Methodist etc. are all twisted with mans rules. I once was Catholic. Born and raised. Once I read the Bible, I quite. Very few members have ever read the Bible even once. They dont know the Word. Those churches are Religion! I dont like religion. My faith is about relationship. There is the Truth out there. I hope you find it.

reply to post by SumnerKagan

I am a Christian, and I would like to say that I see quite a bit of Christian bashing on the ATS, but... it's nothing new in the world. Christianity has suffered worse through the ages, and it will still thrive until Jesus returns.

Having said that, I would also like to say that I would rather that we Christians tend to our own in these last days. We need to take care of our own and stop fretting over how the world acts. Sure, abortion is legal. gay rights and lifestyle will eventually be the norm of accepted practice, and whatever else that may be offensive to those of us that know Jesus. But that is the world and we are not the world. Let them do as they please till Jesus gets back. The only times you need to speak out is when you are invited to do so or when you are confronted to do so. Jesus didn't try to pass government reforms, lead protest marches, or protest outside of government offices. He simply fed people, talked about a personal relationship with God and forgiveness, and helped the sick, and personal sacrifice for the benifit of others. Christians, we need to let the world be the world and stop insisting they need to be like us. We know no one can be saved from hell unless he turns to Jesus, and no one can do that unless God reveals Jesus to him. Instead we need to care for our brothers and sisters in the Lord and work to keep the from conforming to the ways of the world to do as they do.

So when you see a Christian bashing thread, just tell them Jesus loves them and move on and keep your peace of heart. Let the world be the world... Jesus is coming back, very soon.

reply to post by badmedia


Well put. Your rebuttal is acknowledged and accepted by me (a run of the mill non-believer) as valid. (not that you asked for validation and not that my opinion is worth jack #e) But you stated your beliefs for what they really are - YOUR beliefs. Everyone is entitled to that, what with the whole freedom of speech thing.

You obviously aren't a member of the 'flock' of holy (t)rollers that post regularly on here, quoting scripture from their mountaintops and it's unfortunate that they would throw you under the bus with the rest of us 'heathens' as you think a wee bit too much for yourself.

I wish the uber converts would relax a bit - I mean, after all, those guys supposedly have the ONE TRUE GOD OF THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE RELIGION on their side - surely, the sensitivity to criticism is a tad overstated and misplaced. God can handle a few internet trolls, can't he? If not, I think you need a bigger, stronger God.

I can't help but notice you were the only one who replied to my post - it seems most of the dogmatic only engage/respond to the very flame laden posts they seem so offended by...the ones that calmly state facts to debate don't seem to raise many eyebrows...

Originally posted by thehumbleone

respect others beliefs.

And therein lies the rub.

I've only ever gotten involved in the endless Christian vs Atheist debate that rages on the BTS spirituality forum once, and I never will again.

Both sides, regardless of background and belief, have no tolerance what-so-ever. There is no middle ground. They argue in absolutes and nothing comes of it but more hatred.



Lets look at the word beliefs here for a minute.

NOUN:

1. The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: My belief in you is as strong as ever.
2. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something: His explanation of what happened defies belief.
3. Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.

Source

Key words here: accepted as true.

Doesn't say anywhere PROVEN? A belief that is proven becomes a fact.

So therefore, arguing about beliefs is entirely based on interpretation and opinion.

Silencing that argument would be censorship.

As much as I hate the petty bickering that goes on in the spirituality forum, it has it's place.

Christians can't have a cry about being 'picked on'. Look at the trends in the topics.

On page 1, I can only find 1 topic for each side that intends to attack the other.

There are no Atheists (Against Atheism, obviously)
God Doesn't Exist (Against Religion)


I'd say it's fairly even to me.

So please, as I posted earlier in this topic, learn to deal with consequences, both sides.

If you attack your opponent, don't get all teary when they fight back.




And don't forget, this forum is Conspiracies in Religion.

It invites people to ask the hard questions that may make you uncomfortable. But if you are so solid in your faith, why would it bother you?

Christianity isn't proven. It is a belief system based on faith. Why should it be immune to discussion and analysis? It is no different to any other religion.

It gets so much coverage on ATS because the majority of members live in Christian-dominated areas of the world. If this forum was based in Dubai, it would be Islam etc etc.

Please don't tell me you want it to become Conspiracies in Religion (Apart from Christianity, who take offense to being analyzed).



[edit on 7-2-2009 by fooffstarr]

[edit on 7-2-2009 by fooffstarr]

Originally posted by Mynaeris
...Normally we argue about things that are actually part of the faith rather than hateful sweeping statements based on little or no evidence...

youre right! circumcision has nothing to do with the message of christ. so WHY is it so heavily endorsed by christians?! the answer you will get from one of them is: "because god said so." if you think there is not evidence to link christianity with circumcision, please read the linked thread.

my post was intentionally inflaming. i have reached my limit with christianity. i am literally incoherently ranting and raving about this nonsense. i fear i am no longer capable of anything else, it upsets me so much.

reply to post by tgidkp


Circumcision and Christianity being linked seems to be mainly an American phenomenon.

I live in Europe and its not particularly common here at all.

reply to post by SumnerKagan


Why Christianity and no other religion?
Because most of the people on this site live in a society in which Christianity is the norm.

If you noticed something that was the norm, and you thought it was a lie, wouldn't you try to tell others?

And on the subject of "hate speech", religion and politics are two subjects which people are very pasionate about. If you tell someone they are wrong, it's usually taken as a personal attack.
Your best option would be to ignore it.

A non-religious point of view!
I don´t believe in god per-se but i do believe there is more to life than our physical being, whether it be inter dimentional or whatever. However it is a fact that religion is the major cause of war for the last couple of millennia, from the crusades to present day. I will never call myself a christian or muslim, just a believer.

reply to post by count66


your point goes to the heart of something that was said in an earlier post in this thread.

Originally posted by distortion9
...there is an anti Christian, anti American vibe here that keeps me from posting. To be frank, it makes me sick....

indeed, there seems to be a link between mindlessness, christianity, and the american way of life.

Originally posted by sheepchronicles
Religion should be fair game on a site that is an open forum for debate.

It seems as though you are arbitrarily uncomfortable with anyone who would not isolate your particular faith as generally excluded from such debate. If this is the course of how you feel, why are you a chronic poster in a medium so open to alternative viewpoints.

If your core complaints are massive use of explitives or blatantly trolling behavior filled with circular logic where people are getting their own little dopamine push for pushing your buttons, such side effects may well be necessary evils to the ends of an open and meaningful and relative uncensured manner of debate.

Much faith would be lost in this medium if bannered across the top was the issues that are utterly exempt from debate.

Did you mean "Uncensured", as in not criticized or "Uncensored", as in not restricted? The only reason I ask is because if you mean what you wrote, not criticized, I think we SHOULD be critical of those that resort to personal attacks in their posts and answers, Christian and non-Christian alike. But if you meant what I think you meant, an open and unrestricted debate, then I agree with you. And if we can't take the heat, then the kitchen is no place for us to be.

Originally posted by Fromabove
Christianity has suffered worse through the ages, and it will still thrive until Jesus returns.

But that is the world and we are not the world. Let them do as they please till Jesus gets back.

Let the world be the world... Jesus is coming back, very soon.

Why the continuous 'Jesus will be here in a minute...' thing? That has been said for 2000 years...still hasn't happened. Oh - wait. Maybe 'cause that's NOT WHAT JESUS SAID:

Mark 9:1 "And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power."


Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

The folks he was speaking to were RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM and have been dead for 2000 years. Stop with the 'end times' crapola. It was old and played out in the year 1000. You either missed the return by 2000 years or it isn't going to happen. Are you saying JESUS HIMSELF HAD IT WRONG? Please, by all means clear us up on this mixup of the millenium.

It's this line of thinking that makes me retch. The Neo-Cons and big business wrap themselves in the Flag & Bible, get away with murder, cornhole the US Economy, rape the working class and the religiodts that voted them in all just sigh and say, 'the Bible told us this would happen, oh well, Jesus will be here in a minute. I didn't need that 401k anyhow. Hallelujah! It's prophecy!

Couldn't be that you got played just like every other noob down through history. The Bible was EDITED BY THE STATE BACK WHEN CHURCH WAS THE STATE. They put it together. On purpose. Circular arguments and all...congratulations, you allow history to continually repeat itself.

Originally posted by tgidkp
indeed, there seems to be a link between mindlessness, christianity, and the american way of life.

There's a link between mindlessness and humanity in general.
Don't worry about other people's flaws - we are all ignorant of our own.

""Christians, throughout the centuries, have killed in the name of God. The Inquisition was a good example, and the Spanish Catholics in Mexico behaved worse than the most savage tribes, all in the name of God and Christ.


In the various councils of the Roman Catholic Church, the Bible has been greatly revised, for reasons which are clear: to serve the needs of Christianity. Religions are one of the curses of Earth.

Religions are a veritable curse on your planet - As for the new sects that are springing up and flourishing all over the world, they are based on control by brainwashing.

It is terrifying to see young people, healthy in body and spirit, throw themselves at the feet of charlatans claiming to be Gurus and great masters, when the latter are masters of only two things - talking and collecting fabulous sums of money. This, of course, gives them power and enormous pride to see themselves dominating entire crowds of people who submit to them, body and soul. Not long ago, there was even one leader who asked his followers to commit suicide, and they obeyed.

Since on Earth they love proof, there is an excellent one to give them: Universal Law forbids suicide - if this master had been genuine, he would have known this. In demanding this sacrifice from them, he presented the greatest proof of his ignorance. Sects and religions are a curse on Earth and when you see that the Pope sets aside millions of francs or dollars for his travel, when he could make do with much less, and use what money is available to help countries suffering from famine, you can not persuade me that it is the word of Christ which directs such actions.

There is a passage in your Bible that says: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Paradise.

The Vatican is certainly the wealthiest church on your planet, and yet the priests have made vows of poverty. They have no fear of being damned, (yet they believe in damnation), because they say it is the Church which is rich, not them. This is really just a play on words since they make up the Church. Its like the son of a multi-billionaire claiming that he is not rich - only his father is.

The Church has not distorted the passage in the Bible relating to wealth. They have used it to their advantage, for isn't it preferable that the rich grow poorer at the profit of the Church?" - Thoa

This is a time of enlightenment. With enlightenment comes exposure. This is what is happening now. With exposure comes fear and anger. This will not go away!

Christians on ATS are not victims, but are volunteers. This is not a Christian website, but there are plenty of Christian websites on the internet. This is a conspiracy website and this fact cannot be overlooked! It tells me that the majority of Christians that come onto ATS are proselytizing!

I will continue to debunk Christian beliefs and tactics. It is expected on ATS to challenge anything that one believes is wrong, or a form of denial, or covert controlling.

reply to post by Blaine91555


Excellent post! Sadly, I must admit I could not have said it better. Your wisdom shames me, for I have had much trouble putting into words what you have so eloquently expressed.

There seems to be Christianity-debunking because people are waking up to the lunacy of it. If there wasn't so many contradictions, mis-steps, and scientifically impossible stories in the Bible than there wouldn't be anything for people to debunk.

People are allowed to believe in whatever they wish, and I advocate this. We were born as human beings with wonderful cognitive ability and we should put that to good use. But the discussion goes south when either one argues their side is the absolute truth.

They are arguing questions they simply do not know the answers to, ie. where did we come, how did we get here.

For instance... if I were to quote a passage from "The Agnostics Handbook" (if there were such a thing) and say this is my evidence for my argument being truth, a Christian would go bezerk and in no way accept that as true. So it should go without saying that when a Christian quotes scripture and says here, this is my proof for my argument being truth.. that an agnostic or atheist is going to go say no stinking way that a ~2000 year old book written and re-written by man is the absolute answer to everything.

It truly is a nasty little circle... and you run into problems when both sides are sure there answer is right and no one can empirically prove it.

The only way to stop the ignorance back and forth is to stop talking about it... but I don't see ATS outlawing religion threads like they do with marijuana topics, so.... buckle up and hang on for the ride

You can put me down for I don't know where we came from and I think it's naive and a little egotistical as a race to say we have that answer when there is sooooo many things we don't know yet. There will be a time when we do know... sort of like finding out the Earth isn't flat or Earth isn't the center of the universe... we just haven't gotten there yet.

well i guess i'm gonna have to spell it out for you.

about 1% of christian threads, whether anti or not, are an attempt to discuss/discover something new.

the other 99%, including this thread, are nothing but flame material for people to get points.

the reason why there are so many debunking christianity threads is:

1. because it's so easy and mildly satisfying.
2. because the make such good flame threads as previuosly stated.

problem solved. go home.