What is with all the "Christianity-Debunking" attempt threads?

I'm pretty sure Christianity is mentioned more than others because it is the religion that is most prevalent in our culture. And this fact is being overlooked and so some people are acting as if it is only their religion which is under scrutiny.

I have seen topics on other religions. They are usually started by Christians and are some of the most horrid topics I've seen on these forums. I've only been here about 6 months, but in that time I've seen a few of them. And they usually seem to be reposts of some chain email propaganda designed at making other Christians hate other religions.

I "pick" on Christianity because it is the false religion Jesus spoke about, the religion in his name that killed anyone who didn't go along with it. It was formed by a 2nd shepherd(Paul, who makes up 50% of the NT writings, more than Jesus or any disciple that walked with Jesus) who formed the official religion based on politics and the powers/prince of this world.

Which is prophecy fulfilled. Prophecy many Christians still wait to be fulfilled because they look at all religions except their own as the false religion. I personally find the entire religion of Christianity to be an attack on Jesus/truth.




[edit on 7-2-2009 by badmedia]

The motto of this site is deny ignorance.

Organized religion facilitates ignorance and division between people in many ways.

Most of Christianity comes from pagan and astrological roots.

Christianity in the United States is used as a way to justify the legislation of personal morality and personal issues.

You could say that Christianity is "under attack" because it is used as a tool to attack the masses.

People would fight against any powerful cult that attempts to impose it's will on others.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
reply to post by moocowman

 

Because she is Jewish and Jewish people do not speak or spell the name of God.

Respect her Beliefs. Something I wish everyone would do.

Hey, I think I like you. How she spells God is her own business and is hardly important to the discussion. I honestly rarely give out stars, but I just gave you one.

reply to post by SumnerKagan


First I would answer with a criticism of you and the need for this post. We teach best by example and this is not a good example.

What we read here are just words in print upon a monitor screen; penned by strangers. They can not jump off the screen and harm us. They pose no physical threat to us.

What you should be doing is setting an example by being above becoming emotional over the words from those with differing beliefs. Shake the dust from your feet and move on to another conversation.

Turning the other cheek is a literal thing. It teaches us that we need not fear, that pain (both emotional and physical) is transient and shows others the wisdom of self control in our lives. I know it is easy to say but hard to do, but that makes it no less pertinent or correct.

We are not attacked out of anger. We are attacked out of fear. Most who attack do not even know the difference between a real Christian and the wrongs committed by bad people who are false Christians. Unfortunately, many if not most Christians are false Christians. They are more of a danger to us than any Atheist or Secularist could ever be. Look at the damage they have done to peoples view of us throughout History. Be angry at them instead. Be very angry.

To be Christian is to emulate Christ and his lessons. Tear up the Money Changers if need be, but in nearly every circumstance walking away is the correct answer. Arguing and fighting are almost never the correct answer. If someone does not believe, they do not believe. All you can do is try to follow His Teachings and hope your example influences others in a positive way.

Why does it matter what is or is not said of other Religions? In what way does that affect us or concern us? This is not a game where we are keeping score.

We should offer our message if it is desired and sought out, but we should never force our message on those in whom it would be wasted or unwanted. That is the meaning of "Cast not your Pearls among Swine". It is not a reference to non-believers being Pigs because they are not and are no different than you or me. It's meaning is to not waste your time delivering a message to those who have no interest in it. To even attempt to do so, does far more harm than good.

Those who should receive the message will seek it out themselves. We should not even post on these threads or enter into these arguments. They serve no positive purpose and only lead to hate an division.

Look into that mirror in your minds eye and ask yourself, am I being a true Christian or a false one when I let the words of others anger me and threaten me or my beliefs. I know that is something I need to work on myself at all times. What I'm saying here is as much a message of reminder to me as a response to your query.

When others attack you for your faith, rejoice as it is a testament to your Faith. The reason they don't attack the other Faiths in the same manner or frequency should speak volumes to you. Let them say anything they wish about us and leave those who hate us to their own beliefs. Don't fall into the dangerous trap of letting your anger make you hate them.

I confess that I did not read the thread but instead responded to your OP. My apologies if it is repetitious.

I'm not entirely sure why people would be surprised to hear critical comments about religions in threads that are posted in a forum labeled "conspiracies in religions". Go figure.

Originally posted by justamomma
Because this was Declared to happen. Why is it okay? Because people should NEVER put the trust of their lives into the hands of a man. It is foolish... very unwise.

There is only One G.d!! Jesus, the man, was deception. Look at what he has accomplished for world! Ridiculous that anyone couldn't logically see the deception. Of course, the decption is exposed in the Tanakh (the NOW Testament). It speaks AGAINST Jesus or any man as being declared G.d; but it specifically declares Jesus, the man, as a false shepherd using the Word (which is the prophet and our Saviour) to falsely prophesy and deceive!

I don't think Jesus declares himself to be god. I believe it is Paul and the Church who declares Jesus as god, and this I also have big problems with.

Jesus talks about the father, and how the father is greater than he is. He talks about returning to the father. This should be clue that he is not god in the flesh. However, I do believe the father is speaking through him and that Jesus in his words is telling the truth, and in his example he is showing people how to follow the commandments.

I'm also becoming convinced by the day that how I understand the virgin birth is the understanding on what it meant, which also does actually go along with the Jewish bible/OT.

But then Paul and the church build up the idea of man god on earth as means for the "anti-christ", or to become treated as man god on earth, which for a time they were.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
reply to post by moocowman

 

Because she is Jewish and Jewish people do not speak or spell the name of God.

Respect her Beliefs. Something I wish everyone would do.

I thought the name of the Jewish god was Yahweh, who the hell is disrespecting anyone ?

Originally posted by Amitel
Last time I checked this was a conspiracy site! So it is only natural that people will say that one of the worlds biggest religions is a conspiracy of some kind.

I can't agree more!!

Why do people on ATS bash Christianity?

Because Christianity is considered by some to be one of the biggest conspiracies of all times! ... And that's what we do here on ATS ... we bash or support conspiracies

Not to mentioned that some of the histories most destructive and disgusting events have been done in Christ's name ... no wonder people are angry at Christianity.

What should be said, loudly and clearly, is bash Christianity all you want ... BUT don't bash the people who believe in Christianity

The same goes for all other forms of personal faith/scientific based belief system

reply to post by TheRealDonPedros


The common terminology is that atheists don't 'believe' in god but atheism is the absence of belief not a belief in it's self. For me god is no more likely to exist than Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy or indeed flying chairs.

As for NDE's, if real, are they proof of the existence of god? Are NDE's simply our interpretation of what happens to a brain starved of oxygen? I am not convinced. I agree, there is no proof either way but I don't necessarily see a connection between life after death and god.

I don't think this a question of faith - whether there is life after death is immaterial - I'll find out if/when I get there (after all, life after death could just be a regular human function like being born). I don't need a god to lessen my fear of death or take my sin - my sin is my responsibility, I don't expect anyone to lessen the burden of my guilt, not even god.

reply to post by moocowman



YHWH, G-d, it's all the same.

Calm down Fido, I wasn't talking to you only. I'm just reminding people to respect others beliefs.

It's not really hate, at least from me - it's a case of being worn smooth out by the 'true believers' that smugly claim the moral/biblical high ground for which there is not one tangible shred of physical proof.

The use of the Bible as proof of the Bible doesn't work, but no dyed in the wool believer will admit it.

I live in the South, where the 'God said it, I believe it, that settles it' mentality actually passes for a valid thought process. It isn't.

It's tiresome, hearing the Xtians bemoaning how poorly they are treated and that they feel attacked - yet they have multi billion dollar/tax exempt engines running 24/7 to try and shoehorn their beliefs into public policy - ie abortion (if God gave us free will, let the heathen women who abort burn in Hell - can't that be God's will? Let Him sort it out...but NO...gotta tell people how to live and attempt to legislate behavior...)

The educational system is constantly under attack - evolution is of the Devil!!! Gotta have Creationist dogma force fed in the public schools, even though not everyone is Xtian. That doesn't seem to matter much to the converted. They will talk til they are blue in the face about how they just want the ID story as valid science (it isn't) and that would only be fair, but let some other faith's creation stories get close to their kids and all Hell breaks loose - I can't have my little Billy hear what them Heathen Hindu's made up to tell their kids - that's just wrong!!

And for those who love to toss the scripture as trump cards - I leave you with Jesus' own words to his disciples who were standing in his presence:

Mark 9:1 "And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power."


Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

The folks he was speaking to have been dead for 2000 years. He was talking of their living to see his return. Either he lied to them, or the Church lied to you. The inerrant scripture concept is totally bogus. You can't spin that to mean something other than what is plainly stated. I've seen the preachers who try. They fail.

If you don't want to feel attacked or 'hated on' - learn to keep your beliefs to yourself, because that's all they are - YOUR beliefs. No matter how hard you try, you can't make them real for anyone other than yourself.

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by SumnerKagan
Before I begin tearing holes in posters and their posts, I thought I would ask this question of the site members.

Why is it happening, and why is it ok?

Because this was Declared to happen. Why is it okay? Because people should NEVER put the trust of their lives into the hands of a man. It is foolish... very unwise.

There is only One G.d!! Jesus, the man, was deception. Look at what he has accomplished for world! Ridiculous that anyone couldn't logically see the deception. Of course, the decption is exposed in the Tanakh (the NOW Testament). It speaks AGAINST Jesus or any man as being declared G.d; but it specifically declares Jesus, the man, as a false shepherd using the Word (which is the prophet and our Saviour) to falsely prophesy and deceive!

[edit on 7-2-2009 by justamomma]

It seems to be that Jesus gives too much glory to God for what you say to be true. If indeed he was a deciever it would quite couterproductive to his evil agenda wouldn't it? imho.

I think the reason why "anti-Christianity" thread or post is so prevalent on ATS is because of the number of "pro-Christianity" threads/ or "Christianity-based" reply or post. Some people either find it an invasion of space or just an annoyance.

I mean have you seen BTS sometimes, it's like a Christianity Central, just check out the "Religion, Faith, And Theology" section. If you go there you find nothing on other religions, other than christianity, and if there were any threads of other religion, it's usually gets bashed down since it's intrusive of faith.

I think the problem of "pro-christianity" threads or posts is some has the overtone of ignorance, arrogance or aggression, its like "if your not with me, then your against me" type deal. And well that can push some people's buttons.

And its unfortunate not all Christian post that does this, its only some, but you know...a few bad apples, can spoil the rest.

Anyways as long as "pro-Christianity" threads increases, "anti-Christianity" threads will increase in reaction. It's nature...

[edit on 7-2-2009 by skyblueff0]

Originally posted by SumnerKagan
I am, by no means, a hard core "Christian". But, I have encountered friction from ATS staff before, for counter-attacking rude site members, "haters", people with obviously negative agendas, and others that seem to be given free run by staff to attack and bully. And, I am sure I will encounter the same friction here.

You are not alone. I have been hammered more than once for pointing out the trolls as well. There is one on this board that is given free run by staff and his point totals vs. his intellectual ability to debate a subject is laughable at best . I was booted off for a while for debating that creep. Only after groveling was I allowed back on.

As you can see from my point totals I was hammered on more than one occasion for opposing this trolls views. I really think some of these trolls are actually MOD's in disguise... I could have just changed my IP and created a new account but I figured I may as well wear my points as a badge of honor... Screw the troll (MOD)...

Good thread. It seems unfortunate that society and the media are so fixated on challenging Christianity and its Ideals. I think it comes down to the (now oldish) it's ok to offend the "if you are white, male, straight and a Christian" argument. I see people often saying that this demographic is the easiest - and SAFEST - to target with humour and satire.

Challenge Judaism and and its teachings and you will be labeled anti-Semitic and your rep will possibly be attacked.

Challenge Islam and you will be labeled Islamophobic and your life will probably be in danger.

Challenge Buddhism/Hinduism/Eastern Religion and you will be considered close-minded, programmed and an "Arrogant Western".

Challenge Atheism and you will be declared homophobic and intolerant.

Originally posted by rdintx
Mark 9:1 "And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power."

Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

The folks he was speaking to have been dead for 2000 years. He was talking of their living to see his return. Either he lied to them, or the Church lied to you. The inerrant scripture concept is totally bogus. You can't spin that to mean something other than what is plainly stated. I've seen the preachers who try. They fail.

Actually, this is not false. It is only false in the way mainstream Christians view things. But the truth is someone can go to heaven and have these things happen at any time. It is a personal journey. Those who wait for it to happen all across the world as such wait for the anti-christ.

I don't think it could be proven to you in anyway. I only know from my own experience, which is the only question I was asked, "do you want it to end?".

If you are viewing the persons body as being them, then you do not understand exactly what Jesus is talking about. What the person truly is would be their consciousness. And that can leave at anytime, and that person would not taste death, meaning they would not go through the pains of dieing because their consciousness will not be there to witness it.

Are you your body? To what are the senses presented to? Your eyes collect light, turns it into electrical signals where it travels to the back of the brain and is then converted into a picture. To WHOM are these things presented to? You pinch your arm, an electrical signal goes up into the brain and to WHOM is this "feeling" presented to?

WHO is it that observes all this creation?

It does seem a lie among those who do not know the truth and associate themselves as being their bodies. But when you realize what is really you, then you will see how it is true, and then you will see why Jesus says to not fear death and so on. You'll understand for yourself why sins are called sins against god.

Everything Jesus says of himself is/can also be true of you. The entire lie and the reason they build up an idol in Jesus is to make it appear as though the things he says is only talking about himself. That way you will not see the truth in what he says.

reply to post by Ichabod


Do you know what Ichabod means in the Bible? If your a Christian, you might want to change your log in name. Look it up.

reply to post by SumnerKagan

Why is it happening, and why is it ok?

It's happening because people just don't like Christianity, or religion for that matter (Christianity is just more handy). It's OK because just like everything else on ATS, nothing is sacred. All these topics we discuss should stand on their own merits and if one has good merits then that should show in the threads regardless of how many threads there are about it.

But more personally, as an ex-Christian, I enjoy challenging peoples believes and perspectives by criticising and rationalising. Most people don't take it very well but if they won't because they are afraid, then I don't really care if they don't like it- it's fun then.

Originally posted by octotom

Originally posted by Daniem

Everyone knows that they are the same, except the means they use to get it their way.

Are you saying that Islam and Christianity are the same? That couldn't be further from true! The differences between the two faiths are many. Any similarity stems from Islam steming from the Abrahamic line.

As for the Christian bashing, as a Christian, it bothers me but it doesn't at the same time. Sometimes, I wish that people would take the time to see what Christians believe and why we believe it before attacking us. Reading up on things may make it a little clear. One thing, that I can think of off the top of my head, is the difference between Protestant Christians and Catholic Christians. We're not the same, yet I see the terms used interchangably!

Bold emphasis mine... The sad truth here is that the world in general has rarely seen a true Christian. It is our own fault. When our leaders stumble (Swagart, Baker, Haggard, etc...), the general population has a hard time believing we are not all like THEM. And not just the leadership stumbles, but the rank and file included. None of us are perfect, but the world expects it, none the less. Is this fair? NO! But I ask the group here - have they seen us truly repent and not just be sorry we got caught?

Originally posted by SumnerKagan


First of all, IF there are threads out there, that are attacking other religions, I wasn't able to find them. So, at the very least, Christianity seems to be assaulted more than any other belief system on this site.

Really? You don't see the threads thrashing Islam? Threads thrashing Jews? You must be blind, or not know how to use the search function.

Second.....